Talk to me about putter MOI

[FairwayFred]

How important is MOI in a putter? When your looking at a new putter do you consider MOI? How important is it compared to looks and feel etc?

[josey]

Moment of inertia is the key build idea of the ping answer and Scottsdale. Perimeter weighting to resist twist on offcenter strikes. Now new putters like the spider and future push this to the extreme.

[FairwayFred]

Moment of inertia is the key build idea of the ping answer and Scottsdale. Perimeter weighting to resist twist on offcenter strikes. Now new putters like the spider and future push this to the extreme.

 

I want to hear from people how important MOI is to them in a putter. Is MOI considered when making a putter purchase? How important is MOI vs looks/feel? Does a higher MOI putter necessarily make it better than a lower MOI putter w a similar shape/look/feel? If someone made a putter that was identical shaped to your gamer at a significantly higher MOI would you buy it?

 

All thoughts/experiences, opinions etc welcome.

[BrianMcG]

I consider weight and feel. I have never known the moi of any putter.

[Medson]

I find myself having Pitt with 8000+ MOI. I probably get down to 7850-ish. Once I have a putter that ranges around 7500 MOI, making those 20 feet becomes a lot less consistent.

 

Just kidding. Never bothered with MOI.

[josey]

A higher moi will inevitably be more consistent. Not finding one that fits your eye and stroke will probly be more beneficial. Now if it was identical head shapes and feel one one had I higher moi then yes. I would go with that. But moi and putting us far less critical as the miss-strikes are less than a driver.

[FairwayFred]

A higher moi will inevitably be more consistent. Not finding one that fits your eye and stroke will probly be more beneficial. Now if it was identical head shapes and feel one one had I higher moi then yes. I would go with that. But moi and putting us far less critical as the miss-strikes are less than a driver.

 

Mishits are less but the target is MUCH smaller w a putter than a driver.

 

Question for those playing a higher moi mallet. Are you gaming it because it has a higher MOI/is more stable or was it something else that made you bag what your playing? (ie love the look or feel etc)

[Cwebb]

Do an impact pattern test on a putter that you like, with impact decals. The Golfworks and other places have putter sized decals. If your pattern is really tight, then higher MOI is a lower priority. If your pattern can get a bit wide and scattered at times, then higher MOI will help distance control...especially on longer putts.

 

Most players have a wider impact pattern, the longer the putt distance. Assuming the reason being, that the longer the swing of the putter, the more difficult it is to hit the same exact spot on the face. With this said, again the higher MOI can help distance control on longer putts.

 

Here an explanation from Ralph Maltby from the Golfworks on a procedure for putter impact testing....

http://ralphmaltby.c...l-Worksheet.pdf

[getitdaily]

Interesting thread. I feel I should contribute because I've putted about 2/3 of EVERYTHING out there the last 6 months or so.

 

I played a Newport beach for 13 years until 2 years ago. I putted with all the popular stuff out there 2 years ago and, by happenstance I grabbed a 2ball fang. Nothing was yelling "buy me" as I putted with scottys, odysseys, pings, etc. In the store one day I was ready to leave and grabbed a putter only because it had a 33 sticker on the grip. It was a 2ball fang. I almost put it down...the head shape...

 

But I then rolled in 8/10 from 10 feet. Bought it after 10 putts.

 

Still love that putter but found that on the course I can't line it up inside about 7 feet.

 

I've since been through 4 or 5 putters. Sigma g kushin, Tyne, Tyne h, vault oslo. I've putted all the evnrolls, all the spiders, all the sigma g and odyssey models, especially the high moi ones.

 

The answer for me is - balance. Of all the putters I've purchased, everyone of them had good balance. By that I mean the putter doesn't want to come inside or go outside or be manipulated on the way back.

 

2ball fang and sigma g kushin were the best in this category. The spider is really good but I don't care for the slant neck and the plumber's neck is just a bit off on long putts. I am pretty sure I'm moving away from face balanced putters, but the 2ball fang will stay with me. Actually working on a custom plumbers neck 2ball fang...

 

So moi isn't a critical factor but I will say that it makes a difference often. I recently put a 2w in play and love the feel of it. But just a bit off center and it's likely to miss. I've lived in florida all my life so all I've really ever known are Bermuda greens. A ball that's off center often misses because the speed is off. Loss of speed near the hole in florida usually means a miss.

 

If this 2ball fang plumber's neck is what I hope it is then I'll have the elusive unicorn...high moi, great balance, toe hang....oh, with a custom alignment too.

[sheldonjhacker]

I think toe-hang in a putter relative to your arc style is much more important than MOI.

 

1) Can I putt the ball on my intended line ?

2) Does the putter look good to my eyes behind the ball at address?

3) Does it feel good...can I put a smooth stroke on the ball...and do I like the weight in my hands?

 

Lastly, IMO, there is no such thing as a straight back, straight through stroke...without manipulation...unless you're playing croquet.

[GeorgeHWB]

I don't care about MOI in a putter at all. Never have and never will.

[ThinkingPlus]

The importance of MOI in a putter is heavily depedent on your stroke type. A stroke with lots of arc works better with a lower MOI putter. A high MOI putter would be fighting the larger arc. However the closer to straight back and thru your stroke is, a higher MOI putter will help. Less twistting makes it easier to employ a very shallow arc. I use a high MOI putter because I like a minimal arc stroke.

[DNice26]

I don't care about MOI in a putter at all. Never have and never will.

What do you mean by “don’t care?” Like you would happily play a putter with a low MOI or a high MOI, as long as it met other criteria? Just curious.

[GeorgeHWB]

I don't care about MOI in a putter at all. Never have and never will.

What do you mean by “don’t care?” Like you would happily play a putter with a low MOI or a high MOI, as long as it met other criteria? Just curious.

 

As in, it's not a consideration at all. I am very deliberate about the putter I use. But MOI is not part of the decision analysis.

[FairwayFred]

The importance of MOI in a putter is heavily depedent on your stroke type. A stroke with lots of arc works better with a lower MOI putter. A high MOI putter would be fighting the larger arc. However the closer to straight back and thru your stroke is, a higher MOI putter will help. Less twistting makes it easier to employ a very shallow arc. I use a high MOI putter because I like a minimal arc stroke.

 

Do you think the more arc stroke player struggles w a higher moi putter due to the higher moi itself or the fact that most higher moi putters also have a cog that is further away from the face?

[Jaygolf37]

The MOI of a putter is part, albeit a useful part, of putter performance. Physics people call it “rotational inertia” too. And it is a useful measure of the forgiveness of a putter. The resistance to twisting by the face of the putter, despite an imperfect stroke makes controlling where the ball ends up easier.

 

That said, length, lie, angle, and especially balance, are all more important, IMO. You hit your shortest shots with this club.

[Big Ben]

The importance of MOI in a putter is heavily depedent on your stroke type. A stroke with lots of arc works better with a lower MOI putter. A high MOI putter would be fighting the larger arc. However the closer to straight back and thru your stroke is, a higher MOI putter will help. Less twistting makes it easier to employ a very shallow arc. I use a high MOI putter because I like a minimal arc stroke.

This is me too. High MOI putters have improved my putting so much its impossible for me to go back. BB

[ThinkingPlus]

The importance of MOI in a putter is heavily depedent on your stroke type. A stroke with lots of arc works better with a lower MOI putter. A high MOI putter would be fighting the larger arc. However the closer to straight back and thru your stroke is, a higher MOI putter will help. Less twistting makes it easier to employ a very shallow arc. I use a high MOI putter because I like a minimal arc stroke.

 

Do you think the more arc stroke player struggles w a higher moi putter due to the higher moi itself or the fact that most higher moi putters also have a cog that is further away from the face?

I would think a little of both although MOI would be a more significant factor. There are a number of hosel/shaft styles for putters. Some are more suited for head shapes and MOI than others. If you get a poorly designed solution where the hosel/shaft style does not match up with the MOI there would be issues.

[DNice26]

I don't care about MOI in a putter at all. Never have and never will.

What do you mean by “don’t care?” Like you would happily play a putter with a low MOI or a high MOI, as long as it met other criteria? Just curious.

 

As in, it's not a consideration at all. I am very deliberate about the putter I use. But MOI is not part of the decision analysis.

 

Gotcha, same here...i have no idea what my favorite putters MOI spec would be, but I will say that I recently switched to a Ping tyne (370g head so I assume the MOI is a high value) and it has been great for me.

Perhaps it is worth considering MOI for future purchases....for me anyway.

[Matt J]

I don't mean this in any way offensive, BUT (there's always the big BUT)

 

as an industry insider and super golf club equipment aficionado, you are much more knowledgeable about terms like Moment of Inertia than the average consumer. I think consumers roughly break down into a more "cognitive" model where a buyer wants to know all the details, and then very "kinesthetic" buyers who are emotionally tied to the feel and results of trying a piece of equipment.

 

You're dismissive of josey when he basically says you can't strip the MOI away from the design but that is true. His point as I read it is that the Anser is the most popular putter head of all time and part of the reason is that Solheim designed it with a higher MOI than the other heads on the market in 1966. Because people have become accustomed to it and appreciate it now for its history, aesthetics, and performance does not mean that is not linked to the MOI.

 

I think that's part of the reason consumers are going to heavier heads. A heavier head has higher MOI. Strokes gained statistics have proven the age old adage that putting wins in golf. I think becoming a better putter in the more "make-able" range by using high MOI and then accustoming yourself to be a better lag putter despite the high MOI is a common strategy these days.

[FairwayFred]

I don't mean this in any way offensive, BUT (there's always the big BUT)

 

as an industry insider and super golf club equipment aficionado, you are much more knowledgeable about terms like Moment of Inertia than the average consumer. I think consumers roughly break down into a more "cognitive" model where a buyer wants to know all the details, and then very "kinesthetic" buyers who are emotionally tied to the feel and results of trying a piece of equipment.

 

You're dismissive of josey when he basically says you can't strip the MOI away from the design but that is true. His point as I read it is that the Anser is the most popular putter head of all time and part of the reason is that Solheim designed it with a higher MOI than the other heads on the market in 1966. Because people have become accustomed to it and appreciate it now for its history, aesthetics, and performance does not mean that is not linked to the MOI.

 

I think that's part of the reason consumers are going to heavier heads. A heavier head has higher MOI. Strokes gained statistics have proven the age old adage that putting wins in golf. I think becoming a better putter in the more "make-able" range by using high MOI and then accustoming yourself to be a better lag putter despite the high MOI is a common strategy these days.

 

All good points and I certainly was not trying to be dismissive of Josey and apologize if I came off that way. The Anser was revolutionary in part because of its MOI Josey made a great point. Interestingly enough when those first came out they were considered ugly and unconventional and now 50 years later (and obviously much sooner than that) it's certainly become the standard.

 

I find this a very interesting topic I've gone through an interesting year for my own personal golf game (which is very important to me) I got in a car accident in the spring and have spent the year rehabbing my body as well as tearing down and rebuilding my golf game to some extent. This has lead to me changing my putting stroke and specs somewhat and made me think alot about putter design and how it relates to the stroke etc. I certainly don't have all the answers. I basically used the same putter from 2011 until this year but have probably bagged 25 putters this year lol.

 

I know forgiveness and resistance to twisting on off center hits (which is basically what MOI is) is at the forefront of most people's minds with the other clubs I wonder if this will become more of a thing with putters in the future. In 50 years will a different, higher moi shape become more of the standard instead of the anser shape?

[Matt J]

If you aren't familiar with Bruce Rearick and his consulting company Burnt Edges I would highly recommend reading his blog. I'm no shill and have no relation to Bruce other than the occasional Facebook chat, and that's only because I really admire his work. He's one of the only "putting gurus" that I think has really put the time in and truly understands why we have predominant misses and what to do about it. His latest post is muy excellente! Basically he talks about the "slight toe hang" mallet and how the COG moving further away from the face and the higher MOI will make the heel out race the toe and fan the face open. That's why you see so many push misses with mallets.

 

My opinion is that when I started down the road you're travelling, I found a few revolutionary things out and Bruce hits on most of those things in his blogs. First, we all see "straight" differently. Straight is a line which is a human construct and does not exist. Straighter is the goal. Depending on how far your eyes are from each other (pupillary distance) and how dominant and which eye is dominant you will see the line from your stance differently than anywhere else. A lot of getting the right lie angle and length of putter is about getting your eyes in a place where what you see matches your stroke. Some guys might see the line a little right of "true" and then like putters that produce a little of a right miss. The issue there is that it's not going to be the same amount at 5 feet, 10 feet, and 15 feet much less 30.

 

Depending on where the putter and your eyes eventually encourage you to align yourself into your stance and how you move during your stroke and how your stroke responds to the needs of different speeds you will fit into different putters, head weights, grips, etc. - AND a huge variable is how much you're willing to practice. We can overcome almost anything with a lot of practice. I thinks that's why you see so many face balanced mallets on the tour.

 

I've had a lot more success on the greens since I realized that I really want my putter to fit my stroke the best at the 8 to 5 foot range as making those has the biggest impact on my score. Inside 5 feet and we're going to have to rely on some amount of athleticism and lag putting largely comes down to practice and knowing your miss. Rolling the ball end over end on exactly the straight line you see in the 8 to 5 foot range is the backbone to better putting in my very humble opinion. Putting is conjuring magic. Every time we make a putt outside of 3 or 4 feet we should truly be grateful and pleasantly surprised.

 

Enjoy your trip to Scotland. I'm thinking of going at the beginning of March, so I'm curious of your impressions when you get back.

[FairwayFred]

If you aren't familiar with Bruce Rearick and his consulting company Burnt Edges I would highly recommend reading his blog. I'm no shill and have no relation to Bruce other than the occasional Facebook chat, and that's only because I really admire his work. He's one of the only "putting gurus" that I think has really put the time in and truly understands why we have predominant misses and what to do about it. His latest post is muy excellente! Basically he talks about the "slight toe hang" mallet and how the COG moving further away from the face and the higher MOI will make the heel out race the toe and fan the face open. That's why you see so many push misses with mallets.

 

My opinion is that when I started down the road you're travelling, I found a few revolutionary things out and Bruce hits on most of those things in his blogs. First, we all see "straight" differently. Straight is a line which is a human construct and does not exist. Straighter is the goal. Depending on how far your eyes are from each other (pupillary distance) and how dominant and which eye is dominant you will see the line from your stance differently than anywhere else. A lot of getting the right lie angle and length of putter is about getting your eyes in a place where what you see matches your stroke. Some guys might see the line a little right of "true" and then like putters that produce a little of a right miss. The issue there is that it's not going to be the same amount at 5 feet, 10 feet, and 15 feet much less 30.

 

Depending on where the putter and your eyes eventually encourage you to align yourself into your stance and how you move during your stroke and how your stroke responds to the needs of different speeds you will fit into different putters, head weights, grips, etc. - AND a huge variable is how much you're willing to practice. We can overcome almost anything with a lot of practice. I thinks that's why you see so many face balanced mallets on the tour.

 

I've had a lot more success on the greens since I realized that I really want my putter to fit my stroke the best at the 8 to 5 foot range as making those has the biggest impact on my score. Inside 5 feet and we're going to have to rely on some amount of athleticism and lag putting largely comes down to practice and knowing your miss. Rolling the ball end over end on exactly the straight line you see in the 8 to 5 foot range is the backbone to better putting in my very humble opinion. Putting is conjuring magic. Every time we make a putt outside of 3 or 4 feet we should truly be grateful and pleasantly surprised.

 

Enjoy your trip to Scotland. I'm thinking of going at the beginning of March, so I'm curious of your impressions when you get back.

 

Fantastic I do know Bruce though it's been many years. Jeff McCoy and I spent a full day w him at his putting studio in IN probably 8-10 years ago. I haven't thought about him in years but thinking back I agree he is one of the top people I've ever talked to in terms of knowledge of this stuff. I will search out his blog right away THANK YOU!

 

I've been to Scotland a few times in March its one of my favorite times to go. It's not at all busy yet and you can get some great golf weather. You will have a great time.

[Katke87]

A higher moi will inevitably be more consistent. Not finding one that fits your eye and stroke will probly be more beneficial. Now if it was identical head shapes and feel one one had I higher moi then yes. I would go with that. But moi and putting us far less critical as the miss-strikes are less than a driver.

 

Mishits are less but the target is MUCH smaller w a putter than a driver.

 

Question for those playing a higher moi mallet. Are you gaming it because it has a higher MOI/is more stable or was it something else that made you bag what your playing? (ie love the look or feel etc)

 

I have no idea what the actual number is, but my Bettinardi Innovai 3.0 has to be among the highest MOI flatsticks ever. It is more effective for me than any putter I've ever owned (I'm 70 and started playing at 10). The combination of the MOI, face milling and weight (358g) make it feel very sensitive while at the same time it is incredibly resistant to twisting. Yes, high MOI is critical to me. The Innovai is not my favorite looking putter -- I love larger blades like the SC Squareback and Ping Kinloch -- but its feel and performance are the best I've ever used.

[Big Ben]

I’m using the Evnroll 9.2 and it has just a slight toe hang. The MOI is off the charts and it’s amazing. It started with a Futura then progressed to a Toulon Indianapolis and ended up with the Evnroll. Won’t lie it took me awhile to get over the size and loosing the glamour and vanity of a blade. It’s now important that I have a sightline that entends all the way to the face. I’m serous folks it’s transformed my confidence and stroke. I will never EVER go back these just flat out work. BB

[BogeyParBogey]

I have an arcing stroke and prefer putters with toe hang. I tried a 2-ball for a while after a good test drive at PGASS and using it on the course drove me mad. I tried/bought a #9 head style and a light bulb went off for me. I'm still not a good putter, but I'm getting long lag putts closer and am making more 5 footers.

 

High MOI putters appear to be no good for me. I'm using a Piretti Forza now which is similar to a #9.

 

DT

[nova6868]

2-ball is not high MOI though. It's actually lower than a standard Anser putter.

 

This is a chart made by Cure golf but I believe their numbers are relatively accurate. Small mallets don't have great MOI.

 

Personally I think the "sweet spot" is hiding MOI technology in classic designs. The best example of this was the PING JAS WTi Anser. I don't think it was a great seller because customers didn't really see it as being higher MOI, and the production cost was much higher than normal. Spider Blade 2.0 had potential but the paint schemes and quality of the paint was just terrible. Can't sell a brand new putter with chipping paint.

 

 

 

[GeorgeHWB]

I don't know of anyone in this world who knows more about putting than Bruce Rearick.

[BogeyParBogey]

2-ball is not high MOI though. It's actually lower than a standard Anser putter.

 

This is a chart made by Cure golf but I believe their numbers are relatively accurate. Small mallets don't have great MOI.

 

Personally I think the "sweet spot" is hiding MOI technology in classic designs. The best example of this was the PING JAS WTi Anser. I don't think it was a great seller because customers didn't really see it as being higher MOI, and the production cost was much higher than normal. Spider Blade 2.0 had potential but the paint schemes and quality of the paint was just terrible. Can't sell a brand new putter with chipping paint.

 

 

 

Interesting. The 2-ball putter head appeared very large to me and stable. The Cure putters are enormous!

 

DT

[getitdaily]

Reading up on rearick's blog, a lot is making sense as to why I've been through so many putters the last year. Also pretty much confirms that I'm better suited for a putter with some toe hang. If a plumber's neck mallet allows the toe to close then it'll be a good putter for me. That's what I noticed was missing from the tyne h..toe wouldn't close.