Soooo.....A positive story revolving around a sandbagging claim and the revolution that resulted fro

[Augster]

Mark speaks the truth about the GHIN app and peer review. I’m not on our HC, but I play with a lot of the guys in my club quite regularly. So I have most everyone in my app as a partner. I can look everything up quickly. Even when questions from other friends ask about so and so. Etc.

 

The miriad of guys I play with know I’m watching score postings etc. and try to post all scores. If I know a guy played 4 times last week and I only see 2 scores, I’ll get on him about it. We’ve already had a couple of handicap cheats quit the club due, I feel, to the added scrutiny. The watching of score posting by myself, and others that enjoy using the app, and being called out when they don’t post.

 

It’s a fantastic app to have peer review at your fingertips full time.

 

Yeah, you want to bring out the “watchdog” in our group? Shoot a really good score and don’t post it right away. You might make it til noon the day after before texts start flying!

 

:).

 

That’s what peer review is all about. :)

 

After a daily round with the daily morning guys, one guy shoots good scores all the time. He’s a little “lazy” about putting them in. He used to be. Now if he shoots a good score, a couple of guys walk him straight to the computer and make him put it in. It’s all in good fun, but a 4 cap that shoots 68 a couple times per week needs to put those scores in in a timely manner or we have no chance of making any money off him over the summer.

[deadsolid...shank]

Mark speaks the truth about the GHIN app and peer review. I’m not on our HC, but I play with a lot of the guys in my club quite regularly. So I have most everyone in my app as a partner. I can look everything up quickly. Even when questions from other friends ask about so and so. Etc.

 

The miriad of guys I play with know I’m watching score postings etc. and try to post all scores. If I know a guy played 4 times last week and I only see 2 scores, I’ll get on him about it. We’ve already had a couple of handicap cheats quit the club due, I feel, to the added scrutiny. The watching of score posting by myself, and others that enjoy using the app, and being called out when they don’t post.

 

It’s a fantastic app to have peer review at your fingertips full time.

 

Yeah, you want to bring out the “watchdog” in our group? Shoot a really good score and don’t post it right away. You might make it til noon the day after before texts start flying!

 

:).

 

That’s what peer review is all about. :)

 

After a daily round with the daily morning guys, one guy shoots good scores all the time. He’s a little “lazy” about putting them in. He used to be. Now if he shoots a good score, a couple of guys walk him straight to the computer and make him put it in. It’s all in good fun, but a 4 cap that shoots 68 a couple times per week needs to put those scores in in a timely manner or we have no chance of making any money off him over the summer.

 

All of our guys now have smart phones (finally got the last holdout up to date) so normally everyone posts right away while we’re settling bets post round. Tough to get away with in those instances. It’s when for some reason we don’t go in that guys sometimes do forget to post.

[bladehunter]

Great points guys . I’ve always used the GHIN app myself. But I’m not sure how many members do. I’m going to start with my normal 12-15 guys and ask and see if those who don’t will start and then add them all to my partners list. And encourage them to do the same. If everyone is on that page it surely can’t hurt a thing. I really think it’s more about changing the mindset. Instead of trying to hide a score. Why not be proud to post a good score ? Instead of everyone racing up to be a 15 handicap. What if everyone raced down to try to be a 10 ? ( or equivalent analogy) the competition would stay same or get better , and the idea of someone holding back would be gone. A dream ? Maybe. But something happening is better than nothing happening. Lol.

[Shilgy]

As I see it the only issue with the ghin app for watching score posting is it does not give day. It just gives month and year.

[deadsolid...shank]

As I see it the only issue with the ghin app for watching score posting is it does not give day. It just gives month and year.

 

I can’t look since I don’t have one anymore, but I thought if the person was a partner it did give the date. Just month and year for a general lookup

 

But don’t quote me on that cause I’m not sure

[rogolf]

As I see it the only issue with the ghin app for watching score posting is it does not give day. It just gives month and year.

 

I can’t look since I don’t have one anymore, but I thought if the person was a partner it did give the date. Just month and year for a general lookup

 

But don’t quote me on that cause I’m not sure��

Probably doesn't give the date due to privacy laws. Employers could use the handicap system to see if that employee really was "sick" on that day.

[Pedowd]

As I see it the only issue with the ghin app for watching score posting is it does not give day. It just gives month and year.

 

If you have their actual GHIN number and add them as a partner that way instead of just by name, you can see their actual dates, scores, and courses they play.

 

Blade- good for you getting on the committee. I not up to speed on your rants or how your club is setup but i appreciate the work you’re putting in. I was in the same boat with my clubs mga events. They weren’t bad, we had decent turnouts each month but i kept hearing from buddies how they weren’t informed of this or that and how they felt screwed. So i threw my name in the hat for board elections and now I’m the president of our clubs mga. It’s exciting and fun at times and a headache the others but rewarding.

 

The biggest piece of advice i can give is communication. Tell everyone what’s going on and be as transparent as possible. At least they can’t say they didn’t know what was going on.

[deadsolid...shank]

As I see it the only issue with the ghin app for watching score posting is it does not give day. It just gives month and year.

 

I can’t look since I don’t have one anymore, but I thought if the person was a partner it did give the date. Just month and year for a general lookup

 

But don’t quote me on that cause I’m not sure��

 

 

Probably doesn't give the date due to privacy laws. Employers could use the handicap system to see if that employee really was "sick" on that day.

 

 

As I see it the only issue with the ghin app for watching score posting is it does not give day. It just gives month and year.

 

If you have their actual GHIN number and add them as a partner that way instead of just by name, you can see their actual dates, scores, and courses they play.

 

Blade- good for you getting on the committee. I not up to speed on your rants or how your club is setup but i appreciate the work you’re putting in. I was in the same boat with my clubs mga events. They weren’t bad, we had decent turnouts each month but i kept hearing from buddies how they weren’t informed of this or that and how they felt screwed. So i threw my name in the hat for board elections and now I’m the president of our clubs mga. It’s exciting and fun at times and a headache the others but rewarding.

 

The biggest piece of advice i can give is communication. Tell everyone what’s going on and be as transparent as possible. At least they can’t say they didn’t know what was going on.

 

Lesson is.......don’t ever give your boss your GHIN number!

[bladehunter]

Question for anyone reading this.

 

Does your club determine tees played on net events via age ?

 

specifically do they say something like “ 60 up can play the forward tees “ etc ?

 

Just curious.

 

We nearly have all this ironed out and our pro is having a little hissy fit. He doesn’t have a vote. But yet we have tried to gingerly cut him out and allow him to be informed before hand at the same time. We have tossed around deleting a mention of age and allowing anyone to play any tee for net events. Just declare which tee your playing on your card to begin with and course handicap for tee and differential factored in easy enough. We calculate that roughly 60% will play the senior tees as that’s where they are used to playing. Then around 30 % will play the middle tees and a small number the back tee. Maybe a few more play back in match play events. So it’s not as if there’s 5 tee boxes or a huge mix of people really.

 

He is trying to insist on the wording “ 60 and up play the forward tees and 59 back play the middle tees “. Eliminating the rear tees and some of the math. We’ve pushed back today and I guess the pouting will start. Lol. I don’t see why age is needed in the discussion ? It’s math either way. Or am I missing something ?

[rogolf]

Question for anyone reading this.

 

Does your club determine tees played on net events via age ?

 

specifically do they say something like " 60 up can play the forward tees " etc ?

 

Just curious.

 

We nearly have all this ironed out and our pro is having a little hissy fit. He doesn't have a vote. But yet we have tried to gingerly cut him out and allow him to be informed before hand at the same time. We have tossed around deleting a mention of age and allowing anyone to play any tee for net events. Just declare which tee your playing on your card to begin with and course handicap for tee and differential factored in easy enough. We calculate that roughly 60% will play the senior tees as that's where they are used to playing. Then around 30 % will play the middle tees and a small number the back tee. Maybe a few more play back in match play events. So it's not as if there's 5 tee boxes or a huge mix of people really.

 

He is trying to insist on the wording " 60 and up play the forward tees and 59 back play the middle tees ". Eliminating the rear tees and some of the math. We've pushed back today and I guess the pouting will start. Lol. I don't see why age is needed in the discussion ? It's math either way. Or am I missing something ?

We have no such stipulations. In our normal games, some players play the forward tees and some the middle tees, with appropriate adjustments made for course rating. Other days, the organizer says that everyone is playing the forward tees or everyone is playing the middle tees.

[mark m]

As I see it the only issue with the ghin app for watching score posting is it does not give day. It just gives month and year.

 

I can’t look since I don’t have one anymore, but I thought if the person was a partner it did give the date. Just month and year for a general lookup

 

But don’t quote me on that cause I’m not sure��

Probably doesn't give the date due to privacy laws. Employers could use the handicap system to see if that employee really was "sick" on that day.

 

Yes exactly. I can vouch for that. This was 10+ years ago. Originally you could see the date of the score at ghin.com/lookup. But they changed it and I asked a USGA presenter about it a few months later at a handicap seminar. She confirmed privacy was the issue. It could also give shareholders ammo in regards to executive performance and compensation.

 

As Pedowd mentioned, Blade will have access to all club member's GHIN numbers. But you don't really need the actual date for peer review in most cases. If you played in a comp and know the adjusted gross score of a player in the comp - it should be pretty easy to see if that score was posted. A key here is to make it club policy that all scores are to be posted immediately after play. (The USGA states this in the manual and it should be in the notice to members.) No excuses. Posting a penalty score for someone who fails to post or posts late with no good excuse - perhaps missing a revision update - will get everyone's attention.

 

I have the GHIN numbers for about half of the 30 I have in my app. But I had access to most of them in the past. I have had friends ask me for mine and have provided it to them. YMMV. A number of the guys are former partners in state tournaments where you need their GHIN number for the entry form.

 

Blade: as far as a policy on different tees: you will find many different rules/policies at different clubs. Some use age. Some do a combo of age and handicap. Some just say choose your tee and play that tee in all of the comps (no flip-flopping). My club uses the last choice. You can change it once but there is a deadline about 40% of the way through the season.

[Pedowd]

For our mga events as well as most pro shop run games, we play from our gold tees which are 1 set up from the back tee box. 60 and over can play the next tees up (blues) and 70+ can play the whites. In the past you would get an adjustment which would sometimes lead to a 3 stroke differential from playing up a box. This year, with there not being much of a senior mga, we just play course handicap off their index from the blues and white tees to boost participation for the respected guys. The adjustment is just a suggestion from the usga and not the actual rule. Never do we add strokes to guys playing our standard tournament tees and guys don’t play from the back tees either.

 

IMO you’re adding a lot of work with adding a taking away pops from all the tee boxes.

 

[Shilgy]

Question for anyone reading this.

 

Does your club determine tees played on net events via age ?

 

specifically do they say something like “ 60 up can play the forward tees “ etc ?

 

Just curious.

 

We nearly have all this ironed out and our pro is having a little hissy fit. He doesn’t have a vote. But yet we have tried to gingerly cut him out and allow him to be informed before hand at the same time. We have tossed around deleting a mention of age and allowing anyone to play any tee for net events. Just declare which tee your playing on your card to begin with and course handicap for tee and differential factored in easy enough. We calculate that roughly 60% will play the senior tees as that’s where they are used to playing. Then around 30 % will play the middle tees and a small number the back tee. Maybe a few more play back in match play events. So it’s not as if there’s 5 tee boxes or a huge mix of people really.

 

He is trying to insist on the wording “ 60 and up play the forward tees and 59 back play the middle tees “. Eliminating the rear tees and some of the math. We’ve pushed back today and I guess the pouting will start. Lol. I don’t see why age is needed in the discussion ? It’s math either way. Or am I missing something ?

We don't do the math. Different tees are offered but they are different flights.

[mark m]

For our mga events as well as most pro shop run games, we play from our gold tees which are 1 set up from the back tee box. 60 and over can play the next tees up (blues) and 70+ can play the whites. In the past you would get an adjustment which would sometimes lead to a 3 stroke differential from playing up a box. This year, with there not being much of a senior mga, we just play course handicap off their index from the blues and white tees to boost participation for the respected guys. The adjustment is just a suggestion from the usga and not the actual rule. Never do we add strokes to guys playing our standard tournament tees and guys don’t play from the back tees either.

 

IMO you’re adding a lot of work with adding a taking away pops from all the tee boxes.

 

I am not sure if you are saying you don't have to apply Section 3-5? That it is a "choice"? If so, not accurate. Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.

 

See here. Decision 3-5/2:

 

http://www.usga.org/...!decision-14373

 

3-5/2. May a Golf Club Choose Not to Follow Section 3-5 of the USGA Handicap System

 

Q: May golf clubs choose not to follow Section 3-5 of "The USGA Handicap System" manual if the club's groups are competing from different tees?

 

A: No. Not applying Section

3-5 of The "USGA Handicap System" when players are competing from different tees would be waiving a Rule of Golf, and the Committee in charge of a competition does not have the authority to waive a Rule of Golf.

[Shilgy]

As I see it the only issue with the ghin app for watching score posting is it does not give day. It just gives month and year.

 

I can’t look since I don’t have one anymore, but I thought if the person was a partner it did give the date. Just month and year for a general lookup

 

But don’t quote me on that cause I’m not sure��

Probably doesn't give the date due to privacy laws. Employers could use the handicap system to see if that employee really was "sick" on that day.

 

Yes exactly. I can vouch for that. This was 10+ years ago. Originally you could see the date of the score at ghin.com/lookup. But they changed it and I asked a USGA presenter about it a few months later at a handicap seminar. She confirmed privacy was the issue. It could also give shareholders ammo in regards to executive performance and compensation.

 

As Pedowd mentioned, Blade will have access to all club member's GHIN numbers. But you don't really need the actual date for peer review in most cases. If you played in a comp and know the adjusted gross score of a player in the comp - it should be pretty easy to see if that score was posted. A key here is to make it club policy that all scores are to be posted immediately after play. (The USGA states this in the manual and it should be in the notice to members.) No excuses. Posting a penalty score for someone who fails to post or posts late with no good excuse - perhaps missing a revision update - will get everyone's attention.

 

I have the GHIN numbers for about half of the 30 I have in my app. But I had access to most of them in the past. I have had friends ask me for mine and have provided it to them. YMMV. A number of the guys are former partners in state tournaments where you need their GHIN number for the entry form.

 

Blade: as far as a policy on different tees: you will find many different rules/policies at different clubs. Some use age. Some do a combo of age and handicap. Some just say choose your tee and play that tee in all of the comps (no flip-flopping). My club uses the last choice. You can change it once but there is a deadline about 40% of the way through the season.

I'll go to the club and get our groups ghin numbers. Going by score doesn't work as they may have posted but "forgotten" ESC rules or even honestly posted wrong tee box or score. It does happen.

Thank you for the info P!!

[bladehunter]

Both of those options make sense. We’ve kicked around a “ declaration of tee “ before the first event , which would lock a player into a tee for the season and also thought about trying free Choice with two events thrown in that require all players to play from the front tee.

Thinking that might show that playing up front isn’t an automatic birdie fest as some think. Can’t really fairly ask all to play the middle tees as we have 2 members ,who due to physical limitations ,just can’t play from that distance. One of those being a member who lives on the course and donates countless hours to the course grounds itself. ( basically a retired and partially disabled workaholic who gardens ). Last thing I want to do is be unfair to him.

 

I just see our pros pushback as laziness. I think he just doesn’t want to do the math . And we’ve already told him we would be there to do the work. He just needs to smile and run the counter. ( but I can’t say exactly that. Least not yet ).

 

I just want to get away from the idea of “ age “ and have people focus on the rules and math involved. I think that if they understand that it will make sense alltogether. What we have now is a culture that thinks they automatically get the front tee at age 60, And were for a while without losing any shots for the tee difference. If played appropriately though , Getting the front box isn’t really an advantage. Nor should it be.

 

 

Lots and lots of politics. Lol.

[bladehunter]

For our mga events as well as most pro shop run games, we play from our gold tees which are 1 set up from the back tee box. 60 and over can play the next tees up (blues) and 70+ can play the whites. In the past you would get an adjustment which would sometimes lead to a 3 stroke differential from playing up a box. This year, with there not being much of a senior mga, we just play course handicap off their index from the blues and white tees to boost participation for the respected guys. The adjustment is just a suggestion from the usga and not the actual rule. Never do we add strokes to guys playing our standard tournament tees and guys don’t play from the back tees either.

 

IMO you’re adding a lot of work with adding a taking away pops from all the tee boxes.

 

I am not sure if you are saying you don't have to apply Section 3-5? That it is a "choice"? If so, not accurate. Sorry if I am misunderstanding you.

 

See here. Decision 3-5/2:

 

http://www.usga.org/...!decision-14373

 

3-5/2. May a Golf Club Choose Not to Follow Section 3-5 of the USGA Handicap System

 

Q: May golf clubs choose not to follow Section 3-5 of "The USGA Handicap System" manual if the club's groups are competing from different tees?

 

A: No. Not applying Section

3-5 of The "USGA Handicap System" when players are competing from different tees would be waiving a Rule of Golf, and the Committee in charge of a competition does not have the authority to waive a Rule of Golf.

 

Exactly how I see it. It’s a rule. Not a suggestion. Lol

[Pedowd]

Y’all right... changing that!

[mark m]

Y’all right... changing that!

 

Love it. That's why we are here.

[rogolf]

Both of those options make sense. We've kicked around a " declaration of tee " before the first event , which would lock a player into a tee for the season and also thought about trying free Choice with two events thrown in that require all players to play from the front tee.

Thinking that might show that playing up front isn't an automatic birdie fest as some think. Can't really fairly ask all to play the middle tees as we have 2 members ,who due to physical limitations ,just can't play from that distance. One of those being a member who lives on the course and donates countless hours to the course grounds itself. ( basically a retired and partially disabled workaholic who gardens ). Last thing I want to do is be unfair to him.

 

I just see our pros pushback as laziness. I think he just doesn't want to do the math . And we've already told him we would be there to do the work. He just needs to smile and run the counter. ( but I can't say exactly that. Least not yet ).

 

I just want to get away from the idea of " age " and have people focus on the rules and math involved. I think that if they understand that it will make sense alltogether. What we have now is a culture that thinks they automatically get the front tee at age 60, And were for a while without losing any shots for the tee difference. If played appropriately though , Getting the front box isn't really an advantage. Nor should it be.

 

 

Lots and lots of politics. Lol.

Not sure why the pro, ie, staff, has to be involved at all - volunteers who understand the systems can easily do it, and probably better.

[mark m]

Both of those options make sense. We've kicked around a " declaration of tee " before the first event , which would lock a player into a tee for the season and also thought about trying free Choice with two events thrown in that require all players to play from the front tee.

Thinking that might show that playing up front isn't an automatic birdie fest as some think. Can't really fairly ask all to play the middle tees as we have 2 members ,who due to physical limitations ,just can't play from that distance. One of those being a member who lives on the course and donates countless hours to the course grounds itself. ( basically a retired and partially disabled workaholic who gardens ). Last thing I want to do is be unfair to him.

 

I just see our pros pushback as laziness. I think he just doesn't want to do the math . And we've already told him we would be there to do the work. He just needs to smile and run the counter. ( but I can't say exactly that. Least not yet ).

 

I just want to get away from the idea of " age " and have people focus on the rules and math involved. I think that if they understand that it will make sense alltogether. What we have now is a culture that thinks they automatically get the front tee at age 60, And were for a while without losing any shots for the tee difference. If played appropriately though , Getting the front box isn't really an advantage. Nor should it be.

 

 

Lots and lots of politics. Lol.

 

 

I believe different tees help to increase participation and enjoyment. (My club uses 3 tees in numerous comps and I play the back. Some of those are flighted and so not really an issue.) Forcing all to play one tee is often not ideal when most are really struggling with participation rates. But there will be complaints. No doubt. And different tees really only work well when the competitors are playing their own golf ball. I would not recommend using different tees in scrambles, shambles, or alternate shot formats. Good luck with everything. Just know it will get way easier after you get a season under your belt.

 

One of the things that could be a problem is the course ratings which determine the adjustments:

 

Example 1

68.0

70.0

72.0

 

This is a perfect situation. Rounded gaps are 2 and 4 apart.

 

Not so great Example 2:

68.0

69.3

70.6

 

1.3 (rounds to 1) and 1.3 (rounds to 1) - but 68.0 to 70.6 = 2.6 which rounds to 3.

Not a good situation. I would adjust the course or not use 3 tees if this was the case.

 

Best,

MM

[bladehunter]

Both of those options make sense. We've kicked around a " declaration of tee " before the first event , which would lock a player into a tee for the season and also thought about trying free Choice with two events thrown in that require all players to play from the front tee.

Thinking that might show that playing up front isn't an automatic birdie fest as some think. Can't really fairly ask all to play the middle tees as we have 2 members ,who due to physical limitations ,just can't play from that distance. One of those being a member who lives on the course and donates countless hours to the course grounds itself. ( basically a retired and partially disabled workaholic who gardens ). Last thing I want to do is be unfair to him.

 

I just see our pros pushback as laziness. I think he just doesn't want to do the math . And we've already told him we would be there to do the work. He just needs to smile and run the counter. ( but I can't say exactly that. Least not yet ).

 

I just want to get away from the idea of " age " and have people focus on the rules and math involved. I think that if they understand that it will make sense alltogether. What we have now is a culture that thinks they automatically get the front tee at age 60, And were for a while without losing any shots for the tee difference. If played appropriately though , Getting the front box isn't really an advantage. Nor should it be.

 

 

Lots and lots of politics. Lol.

Not sure why the pro, ie, staff, has to be involved at all - volunteers who understand the systems can easily do it, and probably better.

 

Agree. He doesn’t have to be. I guess we just tried to keep the peace by allowing him to be in the loop. If it doesn’t change by tomorrow evening that loop will likely bypass his ear. Lol.

 

What it amounted to was him wanting to “ type up the news letter and announcements “. He sent us a proof today that totally changed what we had agreed on for the first event. Another committee memeber called him before I had a chance to even read the email and fireworks flew.

I’m going to attempt to defuse the situation in the morning with reason.

 

Sorry for the soap opera , mainly wanted to make sure I wasn’t off base with the idea that age wasn’t really a deciding factor and that the system will work minus that idea.

[bladehunter]

Both of those options make sense. We've kicked around a " declaration of tee " before the first event , which would lock a player into a tee for the season and also thought about trying free Choice with two events thrown in that require all players to play from the front tee.

Thinking that might show that playing up front isn't an automatic birdie fest as some think. Can't really fairly ask all to play the middle tees as we have 2 members ,who due to physical limitations ,just can't play from that distance. One of those being a member who lives on the course and donates countless hours to the course grounds itself. ( basically a retired and partially disabled workaholic who gardens ). Last thing I want to do is be unfair to him.

 

I just see our pros pushback as laziness. I think he just doesn't want to do the math . And we've already told him we would be there to do the work. He just needs to smile and run the counter. ( but I can't say exactly that. Least not yet ).

 

I just want to get away from the idea of " age " and have people focus on the rules and math involved. I think that if they understand that it will make sense alltogether. What we have now is a culture that thinks they automatically get the front tee at age 60, And were for a while without losing any shots for the tee difference. If played appropriately though , Getting the front box isn't really an advantage. Nor should it be.

 

 

Lots and lots of politics. Lol.

 

 

I believe different tees help to increase participation and enjoyment. (My club uses 3 tees in numerous comps and I play the back. Some of those are flighted and so not really an issue.) Forcing all to play one tee is often not ideal when most are really struggling with participation rates. But there will be complaints. No doubt. And different tees really only work well when the competitors are playing their own golf ball. I would not recommend using different tees in scrambles, shambles, or alternate shot formats. Good luck with everything. Just know it will get way easier after you get a season under your belt.

 

One of the things that could be a problem is the course ratings which determine the adjustments:

 

Example 1

68.0

70.0

72.0

 

This is a perfect situation. Rounded gaps are 2 and 4 apart.

 

Not so great Example 2:

68.0

69.3

70.6

 

1.3 (rounds to 1) and 1.3 (rounds to 1) - but 68.0 to 70.6 = 2.6 which rounds to 3.

Not a good situation. I would adjust the course or not use 3 tees if this was the case.

 

Best,

MM

 

Pretty much exactly my experience. I play the back if I have my preference and was being forced to play up on a tee I didn’t practice from. There are several other players who feel this way. No reason to not allow the choice.

 

Ours spilts out to 67 70 and 72 in round numbers. So I think it should work.

[rogolf]

Both of those options make sense. We've kicked around a " declaration of tee " before the first event , which would lock a player into a tee for the season and also thought about trying free Choice with two events thrown in that require all players to play from the front tee.

Thinking that might show that playing up front isn't an automatic birdie fest as some think. Can't really fairly ask all to play the middle tees as we have 2 members ,who due to physical limitations ,just can't play from that distance. One of those being a member who lives on the course and donates countless hours to the course grounds itself. ( basically a retired and partially disabled workaholic who gardens ). Last thing I want to do is be unfair to him.

 

I just see our pros pushback as laziness. I think he just doesn't want to do the math . And we've already told him we would be there to do the work. He just needs to smile and run the counter. ( but I can't say exactly that. Least not yet ).

 

I just want to get away from the idea of " age " and have people focus on the rules and math involved. I think that if they understand that it will make sense alltogether. What we have now is a culture that thinks they automatically get the front tee at age 60, And were for a while without losing any shots for the tee difference. If played appropriately though , Getting the front box isn't really an advantage. Nor should it be.

 

 

Lots and lots of politics. Lol.

 

 

I believe different tees help to increase participation and enjoyment. (My club uses 3 tees in numerous comps and I play the back. Some of those are flighted and so not really an issue.) Forcing all to play one tee is often not ideal when most are really struggling with participation rates. But there will be complaints. No doubt. And different tees really only work well when the competitors are playing their own golf ball. I would not recommend using different tees in scrambles, shambles, or alternate shot formats. Good luck with everything. Just know it will get way easier after you get a season under your belt.

 

One of the things that could be a problem is the course ratings which determine the adjustments:

 

Example 1

68.0

70.0

72.0

 

This is a perfect situation. Rounded gaps are 2 and 4 apart.

 

Not so great Example 2:

68.0

69.3

70.6

 

1.3 (rounds to 1) and 1.3 (rounds to 1) - but 68.0 to 70.6 = 2.6 which rounds to 3.

Not a good situation. I would adjust the course or not use 3 tees if this was the case.

 

Best,

MM

 

Pretty much exactly my experience. I play the back if I have my preference and was being forced to play up on a tee I didn't practice from. There are several other players who feel this way. No reason to not allow the choice.

 

Ours spilts out to 67 70 and 72 in round numbers. So I think it should work.

I normally play the middle tees (I'm 73) and don't mind playing from the forward tees when that's what the organizer decrees. It's a little bit of an adjustment, but not devastating. The organizer just shows consideration for both groups (those that want the middle tees and those that want the forward tees). Both groups are willing and glad to play.

[bladehunter]

Yep. I agree. I’m amiable to playing up myself if everyone is Playing up. So I agree completely. If everyone is considered I have no issue.

[HatsForBats]

We have tossed around deleting a mention of age and allowing anyone to play any tee for net events. Just declare which tee your playing on your card to begin with and course handicap for tee and differential factored in easy enough...

 

He is trying to insist on the wording " 60 and up play the forward tees and 59 back play the middle tees ". Eliminating the rear tees and some of the math. We've pushed back today and I guess the pouting will start. Lol. I don't see why age is needed in the discussion ? It's math either way. Or am I missing something ?

 

I just want to get away from the idea of " age " and have people focus on the rules and math involved. I think that if they understand that it will make sense alltogether. What we have now is a culture that thinks they automatically get the front tee at age 60, And were for a while without losing any shots for the tee difference. If played appropriately though , Getting the front box isn't really an advantage. Nor should it be.

 

Am I the only 1 that thinks it's about time the USGA offers a standalone program, other than just the phone App, for course/committees to manage tournaments and matches? One reason the tee it forward initiative will never work is because of the crap of 'you can't play the forward tee's until age XX'. The problem is many/most don't adjust for different set of tee's properly. It's the modern age and about time those running tournaments/events had access to a free system, developed by the USGA, that does the math for them. If they want clubs to use their suggestions on handicapping events then they should offer them the tools to easily manage that.

[davep043]

We have tossed around deleting a mention of age and allowing anyone to play any tee for net events. Just declare which tee your playing on your card to begin with and course handicap for tee and differential factored in easy enough...

 

He is trying to insist on the wording " 60 and up play the forward tees and 59 back play the middle tees ". Eliminating the rear tees and some of the math. We've pushed back today and I guess the pouting will start. Lol. I don't see why age is needed in the discussion ? It's math either way. Or am I missing something ?

 

I just want to get away from the idea of " age " and have people focus on the rules and math involved. I think that if they understand that it will make sense alltogether. What we have now is a culture that thinks they automatically get the front tee at age 60, And were for a while without losing any shots for the tee difference. If played appropriately though , Getting the front box isn't really an advantage. Nor should it be.

 

Am I the only 1 that thinks it's about time the USGA offers a standalone program, other than just the phone App, for course/committees to manage tournaments and matches? One reason the tee it forward initiative will never work is because of the crap of 'you can't play the forward tee's until age XX'. The problem is many/most don't adjust for different set of tee's properly. It's the modern age and about time those running tournaments/events had access to a free system, developed by the USGA, that does the math for them. If they want clubs to use their suggestions on handicapping events then they should offer them the tools to easily manage that.

I'm pretty sure the USGA offers such a program, through Ghin. I'm not sure, but it may be offered to each Club, I'm not sure if there's a cost to the club involved. You can find this at http://www.ghin.com/solutions.aspx?id=71&libID=92

 

For blade, I've seen lots of great ideas for you. My suggestion, knowing that your club will be starting pretty much from the very beginning, is to choose a few specific things to work through. Getting everyone to post properly, setting up tournaments from differing tees, and a significant amount of education for the members (particularly ESC, and adjusting hole scores) would top my list. You won't make everything perfectly compliant immediately, but you can make some huge improvements.

[llewol007]

Looks like you are step in the right direction. Now all this only works well if you have the support of the club members. The same golfers such as yourself who want that playing field to be as level as can be.

[dmac4g]

If the Club is a USGA Member Club and has GHIN, the USGA provides a tournament pairing program to them. The program will compute the different handicaps for the different tee's. It is not a hard process using the system that the USGA provides. It could be the Pro doesn't know how to operate the system though..........probably not a stretch considering the other discussion in this thread...........

[HatsForBats]

I'm pretty sure the USGA offers such a program, through Ghin. I'm not sure, but it may be offered to each Club, I'm not sure if there's a cost to the club involved. You can find this at http://www.ghin.com/...?id=71&libID=92

 

Golf Genius took it over (link below). Not sure how excited I am about that.

 

https://gapgolf.org/detail.asp?id=572&pid=4