Soooo.....A positive story revolving around a sandbagging claim and the revolution that resulted fro

[bladehunter]

If the Club is a USGA Member Club and has GHIN, the USGA provides a tournament pairing program to them. The program will compute the different handicaps for the different tee's. It is not a hard process using the system that the USGA provides. It could be the Pro doesn't know how to operate the system though..........probably not a stretch considering the other discussion in this thread...........

 

Had no idea. Lol. I’m sure he doesn’t either. But I’m going to look into it , thanks !

[bladehunter]

We have tossed around deleting a mention of age and allowing anyone to play any tee for net events. Just declare which tee your playing on your card to begin with and course handicap for tee and differential factored in easy enough...

 

He is trying to insist on the wording " 60 and up play the forward tees and 59 back play the middle tees ". Eliminating the rear tees and some of the math. We've pushed back today and I guess the pouting will start. Lol. I don't see why age is needed in the discussion ? It's math either way. Or am I missing something ?

 

I just want to get away from the idea of " age " and have people focus on the rules and math involved. I think that if they understand that it will make sense alltogether. What we have now is a culture that thinks they automatically get the front tee at age 60, And were for a while without losing any shots for the tee difference. If played appropriately though , Getting the front box isn't really an advantage. Nor should it be.

 

Am I the only 1 that thinks it's about time the USGA offers a standalone program, other than just the phone App, for course/committees to manage tournaments and matches? One reason the tee it forward initiative will never work is because of the crap of 'you can't play the forward tee's until age XX'. The problem is many/most don't adjust for different set of tee's properly. It's the modern age and about time those running tournaments/events had access to a free system, developed by the USGA, that does the math for them. If they want clubs to use their suggestions on handicapping events then they should offer them the tools to easily manage that.

I'm pretty sure the USGA offers such a program, through Ghin. I'm not sure, but it may be offered to each Club, I'm not sure if there's a cost to the club involved. You can find this at http://www.ghin.com/solutions.aspx?id=71&libID=92

 

For blade, I've seen lots of great ideas for you. My suggestion, knowing that your club will be starting pretty much from the very beginning, is to choose a few specific things to work through. Getting everyone to post properly, setting up tournaments from differing tees, and a significant amount of education for the members (particularly ESC, and adjusting hole scores) would top my list. You won't make everything perfectly compliant immediately, but you can make some huge improvements.

 

Absolutely , Perfection isn’t even in the discussion. Education, event participation and then posting are the major goals. Which hopefully all equals better competition

[mark m]

If the Club is a USGA Member Club and has GHIN, the USGA provides a tournament pairing program to them. The program will compute the different handicaps for the different tee's. It is not a hard process using the system that the USGA provides. It could be the Pro doesn't know how to operate the system though..........probably not a stretch considering the other discussion in this thread...........

 

Had no idea. Lol. I'm sure he doesn't either. But I'm going to look into it , thanks !

 

Blade: your pro should have the TPP/Golf Genius software. It comes with the GHIN package.

 

If you have a membership form and/or a renewal form - ask for the following (you probably already do this - but just in case):

1. Home mail address

2. email address

3. Birthdate

 

It is good to go through your handicap listing at the beginning of the season and update all the members info on the three points list above. You can also inactivate those who have not renewed at this point.

 

Correct home mail address is needed in the system to get your Association magazine.

Correct email address needed for handicap eRevision updates (on the 1st and 15th of each month)

Birthdate in the system if helpful if you have competitions by age - like a Senior CC or whatever.

 

TPP/Golf Genius:

• There are lots of different formats in the software.
  
• If you enter things correctly, it will convert the handicaps correctly from Index to CH, and also can do the second adjustment (Section 3-5) if players are competing from different tees. It will also adjust if you enter a handicap allowance (like 90%) for four-ball comps.
  
• After scores are entered it will calculate results and create printable sheets to post on a board or email.
  
• The system will correctly adjust and post scores for the competitors. This is true even if the competition has a handicap allowance like 90%. Say a player's actual course handicap before applying the allowance is 10. But for the comp he is getting just 9. The system knows he is actually a 10 and will adjust his score correctly, for posting purposes only, using ESC (max score of 7 per hole). It helps to eliminate mistakes. All you have to do is input hole-by-hole scores correctly.
  
• You can also print or email starting times and pairings before the tournament - the email option saves phone calls. (It pulls the email address from the handicap listing - so it is important to have the correct info in the listing for each member.)
  
• It can basically do it all - it just takes some time to learn the system.
  

And one last thing on rounding the course ratings for Section 3-5. You just round the difference between a set of CR's.

 

Section 3:

http://www.usga.org/...tml#!rule-14373

 

Different tees usually have different Ratings. Because a

USGA Course Rating reflects the probable score of a scratch golfer, the higher-rated course is more difficult, and the player playing from the set of tees with the higher USGA Course Rating receives additional stroke(s) equal to the difference between each USGA Course Rating, with .5 or greater rounded upward. The additional stroke(s) are added to the Course Handicap of the player playing from the higher-rated set of tees. (See Decision 3-5/1.)

 

Example 1 : If men playing from the middle tees where the men's

USGA Course Rating is 70.3 compete against men playing from the back tees where the men's USGA Course Rating is 72.6, the men playing from the back tees will add two strokes (72.6 - 70.3 = 2.3 rounded to 2 ) to their Course Handicap.

[Augster]

At our club, everyone plays whites by default. There are a few guys that hit it ultra short, or wild, and have no desire to get better or longer.

 

What we have is a petition system. Since it’s only like 90 guys, most everyone knows everyone’s game. If you are able-bodied, you play whites. If you’re really old, and short, you can petition to play golds. If you’re a really short hitter, you can petition also. The men’s club committee makes those decisions.

 

Of all the guys, we have 3 guys that we’ve granted to always play golds. And one guy, who has MS, plays reds.

 

This “choosing your own tee” seems like some BS could happen and is a little more work. And really hard to have a gross skins game.

 

With a petition system, 4/90 guys get special treatment. They are allowed in the gross, and net, skins and nearies playing from the forward tees. Their course handicaps are adjusted accordingly. But at least they have a chance in the gross and nearies if they choose to get in.

[bladehunter]

At our club, everyone plays whites by default. There are a few guys that hit it ultra short, or wild, and have no desire to get better or longer.

 

What we have is a petition system. Since it’s only like 90 guys, most everyone knows everyone’s game. If you are able-bodied, you play whites. If you’re really old, and short, you can petition to play golds. If you’re a really short hitter, you can petition also. The men’s club committee makes those decisions.

 

Of all the guys, we have 3 guys that we’ve granted to always play golds. And one guy, who has MS, plays reds.

 

This “choosing your own tee” seems like some BS could happen and is a little more work. And really hard to have a gross skins game.

 

With a petition system, 4/90 guys get special treatment. They are allowed in the gross, and net, skins and nearies playing from the forward tees. Their course handicaps are adjusted accordingly. But at least they have a chance in the gross and nearies if they choose to get in.

 

Well. I do get what you’re saying. And I’m sure it works in some instances. With ours we have quite a few members over 70. It would cause an uprising of biblical proportions if we asked them to move back to the white tee. And the front tee isn’t going to work for the rest . It’s pretty short. (5500yds front) compared to 6100 white ( middle)tees.

 

Those distances are exasperated because of the courses design. Very tight old growth tree lined with many doglegs. The extra length comes in the form of longer tee shots to those doglegs. Some couldn’t reach the doglegs with driver. And more so. The highest handicap hole is a blind tee shot par 4 with a lake at the base of the fairway. From the edge of the lake it’s a 145 yards carry uphill ( plays 160) over water. If you move some back to the white they would be looking at 180-200 actual yards ) playing 10-15 uphill) over water to the green. They don’t carry driver that far. It’s entirely a tee shot golf course really. Flip that around and move all up to the gold and there will be 5-7 of us waiting for the straight par 4 greens to clear to try to drive the green . Pace of play nightmare.

 

I don’t really see any BS happening with a tee choice. The system should Work. If some smarty who hits it far decides to play the gold and holds up pace waiting for greens to clear , I’ll be the guy to tell him that isn’t going to work . The system can be abused. But we don’t have to allow it I don’t think.

[deadsolid...shank]

Blade, if you can get some of them to move up once, a lot of them will start to convert.

 

Once they figure out that they’re still not going to shoot substantially better than they normally do and their handicaps will go up because of the easier rating and slope, they’ll be all for it when they see they’re getting two or three more pops.

 

That’s somewhat from experience. We moved up from our tips years ago for the same reason. They were rated theee strokes higher, but we didn’t find our scores reflected that, so caps were going down. And we were getting killed in the team games by the guys playing one or two boxes up.

 

Everyone always thinks they are going to go crazy low when they move up.

[Petethreeput]

Recently our club made a change for seniors.

Years ago a 61 year old was at -1, but was mandated to play from the forward tees. So he was ineligible to win the club championship. He was angry.

The new GM changed the forward tees to include “Over X age (obviously your choice) AND 10 hdcp or above.”

[bladehunter]

Well..... Another post that i must preface.....To accomplish that i will say ... Thank You to all who have left ideas, words of encouragement and thumbs up... It was a big help and push to continue to do the work that getting these things ironed out took....

 

But....

 

 

 

 

 

This morning while i met with a customer and wasnt available , apparently my clubs Pro, GM and Owner had a pow wow of sorts. They did manage to send me an email and then wait approx 11 minutes to change and publish the draft of the Handicap Associations format etc for the season. Sent to every member , and in the committees name . no im not kidding..

 

 

The change we had made and voted on were these ..... We had setup and were going to implement a 2 flight setup based on handicaps. one flight of higher handicaps that could play front or middle box with tee differentials calculated and another flight with choice of middle and back tees with same calculations for low handicaps....NO AGE DETERMINATION USED. During the Match play brackets through the year we could choose any tee and adjust according to the rules ...one caveat is stay on that tee for the whole bracket .

 

 

here is what they published.....

2 flights..based on age... 60 up plays front tee....59 down plays middle tee... they coined them "gold flight and white flight" for tee colors ...no mention of back tees. an option for the front tee flight ( 60 and up) to move back to the middle tee to eliminate the 3 shot tee differential .....no option for the middle tee flight to move up or down.... Match play brackets 60 and up have option to play front or middle with calculations in place and 59 back plays middle tee... no option to move . And my personal favorite addition.. the sentence that says " this eliminates the need for all the silly math that playing multiple tees would create"... Polar opposite of what the committee voted for .

 

 

To say im put out would be a lie.. Im angry ... I dont know why i thought Lucy wouldnt pull the football .

 

In the grand scheme of life its nothing.. a blip. But this type thing really bothers me deeply . The Committee Vote is a sham , the whole thing a farse.

They were careful to stay inside the rules ( i think)aside from acting as their own committee , so i dont know if i have any recourse with regards to the usga or not ...

 

 

Im going to stop now because i feel like im rambling and making no sense . Just wanted to give the conclusion , even though its bad , since so many showed interest . Thanks again all,

[mark m]

It sounds bad. You basically have a dictatorship, correct?

 

Just curious if you have an official club bylaws? (It sounds like you do not - or it isn't being followed.)

 

The USGA has a sample bylaws here:

 

http://www.usga.org/handicapping/handicapping-101/forming-your-own-golf-club-dffab3a9/sample-bylaws.html

 

Good luck this coming season whether you decide to stay on the Committee or not.

[dmac4g]

Sounds like it is time to find another club. At the least, create a boycott of the events. Even better, start your own group and run it better than the Club staff! Sounds like you are dealing with the 3 Stooges running your club.

[bladehunter]

It sounds bad. You basically have a dictatorship, correct?

 

Just curious if you have an official club bylaws? (It sounds like you do not - or it isn't being followed.)

 

The USGA has a sample bylaws here:

 

http://www.usga.org/...ple-bylaws.html

 

Good luck this coming season whether you decide to stay on the Committee or not.

 

pretty much seems that way . I for sure understand what the problem was now.. Ill check on the Bylaws... Im more than likely going to resign. BUT im not going to until i have a clear head about it . As in i wont do it today out of anger. And ill surely send out a group email letting the members know who drafted that email and why im not going to participate.

[Almostscratchonce]

Unbelievable!

 

What's the owernship/equity structure of the golf course? I'd take things a step higher before I bailed, unless I knew for sure it was a fight that couldn't be won.

[deadsolid...shank]

Wow. Sounds like someone of importance really didn’t want anything changed.

[bladehunter]

Unbelievable!

 

What's the owernship/equity structure of the golf course? I'd take things a step higher before I bailed, unless I knew for sure it was a fight that couldn't be won.

 

Ownership is two families. One has 49% the other 51%.

 

The 51% are the founding owners ( 1969).along with a second course across the county that he has a controlling ownership in. And I have no doubt that he is the one who wanted it changed , he plays in the net events from the front tees as a 17 handicap. I’m sure resenting that tee differential was mentioned.

[Krt22]

Sorry man, it sounds like your club is run by incompetent imbeciles. It's amazing they can run a course, but can't correctly run a multi-flight/age group tournament. I play in a traveling men's club. We have 2 regular flights based on index, within the higher index group there is a separate group for seniors and women. Stroke play within the flights and match play that can occur between the two flights. All scores properly posted, ESC used, tee differentials implemented, etc. It's not rocket science!

[HitEmTrue]

Sorry man, it sounds like your club is run by incompetent imbeciles. It's amazing they can run a course, but can't correctly run a multi-flight/age group tournament. I play in a traveling men's club. We have 2 regular flights based on index, within the higher index group there is a separate group for seniors and women. Stroke play within the flights and match play that can occur between the two flights. All scores properly posted, ESC used, tee differentials implemented, etc. It's not rocket science!

 

Match and stroke play happening at the same time?

 

[davep043]

To say im put out would be a lie.. Im angry ... I dont know why i thought Lucy wouldnt pull the football .

 

In the grand scheme of life its nothing.. a blip. But this type thing really bothers me deeply . The Committee Vote is a sham , the whole thing a farse.

They were careful to stay inside the rules ( i think)aside from acting as their own committee , so i dont know if i have any recourse with regards to the usga or not ...

 

 

Im going to stop now because i feel like im rambling and making no sense . Just wanted to give the conclusion , even though its bad , since so many showed interest . Thanks again all,

I understand your frustration. I don't have much to suggest, but when you cool down I think you might want to consider the responsibilites and authority of the Handicap Committee. Unfortunately, it does not extend to planning or formatting tournaments. I understand that you're trying to improve all aspects of competitive golf at your club. The thing you have specific authority to improve is the Handicap System, consistent posting, accuracy of handicaps. Management is not allowed to unilaterally change anything around the Handicaps, and the Handicap Committee Chairman may NOT be an owner or employee of the club.

I suggest you improve what you can. Enforce posting rules, post penalty scores, modify or even withdraw handicaps. Be sure to get administrator access to the GHIN system. And if management refuses, then you DO have recourse, you can ask your State Association or the USGA to audit your club's handicap management. See Appendix G of the Handicap Manual. I don't know how far you want to push, but I'd guess that if the club cares to remain authorized to keep handicap, they'll find a way to work with your group.

Good luck!

[bladehunter]

To say im put out would be a lie.. Im angry ... I dont know why i thought Lucy wouldnt pull the football .

 

In the grand scheme of life its nothing.. a blip. But this type thing really bothers me deeply . The Committee Vote is a sham , the whole thing a farse.

They were careful to stay inside the rules ( i think)aside from acting as their own committee , so i dont know if i have any recourse with regards to the usga or not ...

 

 

Im going to stop now because i feel like im rambling and making no sense . Just wanted to give the conclusion , even though its bad , since so many showed interest . Thanks again all,

I understand your frustration. I don't have much to suggest, but when you cool down I think you might want to consider the responsibilites and authority of the Handicap Committee. Unfortunately, it does not extend to planning or formatting tournaments. I understand that you're trying to improve all aspects of competitive golf at your club. The thing you have specific authority to improve is the Handicap System, consistent posting, accuracy of handicaps. Management is not allowed to unilaterally change anything around the Handicaps, and the Handicap Committee Chairman may NOT be an owner or employee of the club.

I suggest you improve what you can. Enforce posting rules, post penalty scores, modify or even withdraw handicaps. Be sure to get administrator access to the GHIN system. And if management refuses, then you DO have recourse, you can ask your State Association or the USGA to audit your club's handicap management. See Appendix G of the Handicap Manual. I don't know how far you want to push, but I'd guess that if the club cares to remain authorized to keep handicap, they'll find a way to work with your group.

Good luck!

 

Yea Dave.

 

I have come to that understanding over the evening last night and morning. I guess I feel foolish for that part.

But that came to be at the original onset because our pro and GM put it in front of us to come up with ideas to improve everything In general. So I may have run away with it. But it wasn’t because I wasn’t encouraged to “ take it on”. I suppose they didn’t anticipate my ocd tendencies, lol.

 

But I don’t think that excuses their actions in the end. Just a shady operation all around in my opinion. And I don’t think I want my name attached to it.

 

My reasoning is that there will be a next time and a next . No way to work with someone who will do things below board like that.

 

Pretty much cut it out of my mind this morning as far as “ things to do “ and set my mind toward my practice schedule to concentrate on my gross events for the year. My gut feeling from before that you just cannot play net events at this place is ringing in my head. Pretty sorry that I started this thread now and feeling pretty foolish.

[davep043]

To say im put out would be a lie.. Im angry ... I dont know why i thought Lucy wouldnt pull the football .

 

In the grand scheme of life its nothing.. a blip. But this type thing really bothers me deeply . The Committee Vote is a sham , the whole thing a farse.

They were careful to stay inside the rules ( i think)aside from acting as their own committee , so i dont know if i have any recourse with regards to the usga or not ...

 

 

Im going to stop now because i feel like im rambling and making no sense . Just wanted to give the conclusion , even though its bad , since so many showed interest . Thanks again all,

I understand your frustration. I don't have much to suggest, but when you cool down I think you might want to consider the responsibilites and authority of the Handicap Committee. Unfortunately, it does not extend to planning or formatting tournaments. I understand that you're trying to improve all aspects of competitive golf at your club. The thing you have specific authority to improve is the Handicap System, consistent posting, accuracy of handicaps. Management is not allowed to unilaterally change anything around the Handicaps, and the Handicap Committee Chairman may NOT be an owner or employee of the club.

I suggest you improve what you can. Enforce posting rules, post penalty scores, modify or even withdraw handicaps. Be sure to get administrator access to the GHIN system. And if management refuses, then you DO have recourse, you can ask your State Association or the USGA to audit your club's handicap management. See Appendix G of the Handicap Manual. I don't know how far you want to push, but I'd guess that if the club cares to remain authorized to keep handicap, they'll find a way to work with your group.

Good luck!

 

Yea Dave.

 

I have come to that understanding over the evening last night and morning. I guess I feel foolish for that part.

But that came to be at the original onset because our pro and GM put it in front of us to come up with ideas to improve everything In general. So I may have run away with it. But it wasn't because I wasn't encouraged to " take it on". I suppose they didn't anticipate my ocd tendencies, lol.

 

But I don't think that excuses their actions in the end. Just a shady operation all around in my opinion. And I don't think I want my name attached to it.

 

My reasoning is that there will be a next time and a next . No way to work with someone who will do things below board like that.

 

Pretty much cut it out of my mind this morning as far as " things to do " and set my mind toward my practice schedule to concentrate on my gross events for the year. My gut feeling from before that you just cannot play net events at this place is ringing in my head. Pretty sorry that I started this thread now and feeling pretty foolish.

Never feel foolish for trying to do the right thing!

[bladehunter]

Yea. I hear that. ^. And thanks for saying it. Just deflated.

[rogolf]

Yea. I hear that. ^. And thanks for saying it. Just deflated.

It sounds to me that your small "group" are trying to be both Handicap Committee and Match Committee at the same time. Stay on the handicap committee and push for separation of the two committees. If your members don't like the terms of the competition set by the match committee, don't play in competition. Follow the handicap committee procedures regardless of what the match committee suggest and keep pointing out when they're not consistent with the handicap manual.

[bladehunter]

Yea. I hear that. ^. And thanks for saying it. Just deflated.

It sounds to me that your small "group" are trying to be both Handicap Committee and Match Committee at the same time. Stay on the handicap committee and push for separation of the two committees. If your members don't like the terms of the competition set by the match committee, don't play in competition. Follow the handicap committee procedures regardless of what the match committee suggest and keep pointing out when they're not consistent with the handicap manual.

 

Yep. That’s what we thought anyway.

 

I may do just that. Haven’t made up my mind. I’m going to stay on at least long enough to ask for the admin login to the GHIN system and see what happens. If that’s refused then we will see who can do what just for good measure.

[mark m]

Yea. I hear that. ^. And thanks for saying it. Just deflated.

It sounds to me that your small "group" are trying to be both Handicap Committee and Match Committee at the same time. Stay on the handicap committee and push for separation of the two committees. If your members don't like the terms of the competition set by the match committee, don't play in competition. Follow the handicap committee procedures regardless of what the match committee suggest and keep pointing out when they're not consistent with the handicap manual.

 

Yep. That's what we thought anyway.

 

I may do just that. Haven't made up my mind. I'm going to stay on at least long enough to ask for the admin login to the GHIN system and see what happens. If that's refused then we will see who can do what just for good measure.

I

 

I noticed GHIN is going through an update and it looks like South Carolina is going through "Wave 3" right now in early March.

It would be a good time to learn an improved system.

 

http://www.ghinblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/October-GHIN-Product-Update-Meeting-vF.pdf

[Krt22]

Sorry man, it sounds like your club is run by incompetent imbeciles. It's amazing they can run a course, but can't correctly run a multi-flight/age group tournament. I play in a traveling men's club. We have 2 regular flights based on index, within the higher index group there is a separate group for seniors and women. Stroke play within the flights and match play that can occur between the two flights. All scores properly posted, ESC used, tee differentials implemented, etc. It's not rocket science!

 

Match and stroke play happening at the same time?

 

Yep. You can concede putts/holes for the match, but everyone has to finish out for the stroke play

[mark m]

Sorry man, it sounds like your club is run by incompetent imbeciles. It's amazing they can run a course, but can't correctly run a multi-flight/age group tournament. I play in a traveling men's club. We have 2 regular flights based on index, within the higher index group there is a separate group for seniors and women. Stroke play within the flights and match play that can occur between the two flights. All scores properly posted, ESC used, tee differentials implemented, etc. It's not rocket science!

 

Match and stroke play happening at the same time?

 

Yep. You can concede putts/holes for the match, but everyone has to finish out for the stroke play

 

You cannot combine the 2 forms of play. The rules are different. For instance, say your opponent in the match tees off in front of the markers. You (as the opponent) can let that go if you want but in stroke play he would be DQ'd unless he teed off again from the teeing area. And it's a two stroke penalty.

 

Now, some groups do allow this in their unofficial throw-in money games which often have skins dominate pay outs. And some of those groups have the putt out rule. But a club should not be doing this in an official club tournament.

[Halebopp]

Sorry man, it sounds like your club is run by incompetent imbeciles. It's amazing they can run a course, but can't correctly run a multi-flight/age group tournament. I play in a traveling men's club. We have 2 regular flights based on index, within the higher index group there is a separate group for seniors and women. Stroke play within the flights and match play that can occur between the two flights. All scores properly posted, ESC used, tee differentials implemented, etc. It's not rocket science!

 

Match and stroke play happening at the same time?

 

Yep. You can concede putts/holes for the match, but everyone has to finish out for the stroke play

 

You cannot combine the 2 forms of play. The rules are different. For instance, say your opponent in the match tees off in front of the markers. You (as the opponent) can let that go if you want but in stroke play he would be DQ'd unless he teed off again from the teeing area. And it's a two stroke penalty.

 

Now, some groups do allow this in their unofficial throw-in money games which often have skins dominate pay outs. And some of those groups have the putt out rule. But a club should not be doing this in an official club tournament.

Nowadays it is only discouraged to combine the two formats. In case the players do that, they should play by the stroke play rules - no concessions, failure to hole out is a DQ in stroke play etc. (not in Stableford, max score, par/bogey... though).

[mark m]

Sorry man, it sounds like your club is run by incompetent imbeciles. It's amazing they can run a course, but can't correctly run a multi-flight/age group tournament. I play in a traveling men's club. We have 2 regular flights based on index, within the higher index group there is a separate group for seniors and women. Stroke play within the flights and match play that can occur between the two flights. All scores properly posted, ESC used, tee differentials implemented, etc. It's not rocket science!

 

Match and stroke play happening at the same time?

 

Yep. You can concede putts/holes for the match, but everyone has to finish out for the stroke play

 

You cannot combine the 2 forms of play. The rules are different. For instance, say your opponent in the match tees off in front of the markers. You (as the opponent) can let that go if you want but in stroke play he would be DQ'd unless he teed off again from the teeing area. And it's a two stroke penalty.

 

Now, some groups do allow this in their unofficial throw-in money games which often have skins dominate pay outs. And some of those groups have the putt out rule. But a club should not be doing this in an official club tournament.

Nowadays it is only discouraged to combine the two formats. In case the players do that, they should play by the stroke play rules - no concessions, failure to hole out is a DQ in stroke play etc. (not in Stableford, max score, par/bogey... though).

 

Thanks. I looked it up. it's another one of the changes made this year. I am so far behind on these new rules and I went to a club meeting with a rules expert! Too much to cover. I like the flexibility it provides for certain circumstances.

[HatsForBats]

Hmmm, I can see it from the Owner/GM side of things. The Pro was likely in their ear about how 'complicated' it would be to do all the 'silly math' for each tournament or perhaps they felt that way without the Pro's input. I really can't blame them for going that way but wish they hadn't. Are they aware that software is available to them, for free, to perform all of the silly math? You might at least mention that to them (hopefully without coming off as snide). Maybe they would be open to try a few tournaments the way the committee suggested.

 

If I was in your shoes I might try to organize a weekly informal group that plays by the setup you developed with the committee.

[bladehunter]

Hmmm, I can see it from the Owner/GM side of things. The Pro was likely in their ear about how 'complicated' it would be to do all the 'silly math' for each tournament or perhaps they felt that way without the Pro's input. I really can't blame them for going that way but wish they hadn't. Are they aware that software is available to them, for free, to perform all of the silly math? You might at least mention that to them (hopefully without coming off as snide). Maybe they would be open to try a few tournaments the way the committee suggested.

 

If I was in your shoes I might try to organize a weekly informal group that plays by the setup you developed with the committee.

 

Yea. I hear ya.

 

These people are so dense I just don’t know. I’ve tried over the weekend to have a polite conversation with our pro , and he just talks to me as if I’m the one who’s the problem. Example

 

I asked “ what was said or who opposed Or was anything said about the rear flight havin tthe option to play the back tees “? His response .... “ you’ll get the 3 shot differential from the guys playing the front tee flight unless they chose to move back to the middle tees “.

 

Absolutely not what I asked. And this is a guy who’s been in MY regular 4 some for 2 years. And is my only neighbor at home. He’s absolutely playing dumb.

 

I stopped talking then because I could feel the “ chiefs and hosses” about to start flying.

 

At this point I think they can just have their hit and giggle events. I’m going to add 4 more gross events I have to travel to and be done with it.

 

I appreciate the thought and concern. I just got way too angry for this to be something that’s good for me . It’s my personality and a fault for sure. I’ll giev you 200 .% effort. But I won’t half a** anything. All or none. Laziness is hard for me to work around.

[golfortennis]

Sorry to hear that blade. That was one thing I should have mentioned. If there is an autocratic system in place, you have to tread carefully. I had a situation where our GM allowed a social member to "play" in our club championship, even though that had never really been done before. Naturally he gets paired with his buddies, who either have dirt on the pro, or are buddies of his as well. This guy is a former pro, and if he is playing should be in champ flight, not A flight. Naturally, this guy is 7 shots better than myself, and his buddy(who would cheat his mother if it got him a stroke), who are "leading" after the first round. I didn't know any of this until after the round. So I look up this guy, and sure enough, based on his handicap, he should have been in champ flight. But either due to buddy/buddy stuff, or just not checking like I was told, they let him play A flight.

 

So because of this, I end up in the second last group on the final day, because this guy is taking up a spot. Needless to say, I'm sure the buddy doesn't shoot as well as he did if someone was in the group who wasn't in on his scheme. Anyway, I mentioned things over the weekend to a couple people. Next thing I hear is that a group of them walked up the GM with checks in hand to buy out my share because I was real close to uncovering their game. Even my dad, who usually is up for a fight, said I don't need that crap, walk away from that committee. I haven't played in an event other than four-ball match play out of deference to my buddies since. I understand not much has changed. I just play golf and play tournaments outside of there.

 

Our club is 51% owned by some general partners, and 49% by the rest of us. The GM was one of those general partners. It was one of many areas he did not display much in the way of competence.

 

Like the other guys said, just organize your own game, and stay out of the club events. Get enough people to do the same, then you will have their attention.