This really illustrates the difference between pro and scratch

[Obee]

Take a look at the stats from today's SCGA (Southern California Golf Association) Mid-Amateur (25+) qualifier at Goose Creek Golf Club, just outside, Riverside, California. The 18th hole is a beast: 466 yard dogleg right with water guarding the right of the fairway and all the way up to the green. It's one of the best and most difficult finishing holes around, mostly because the lake is perfectly situated. No matter how long you are, it entices you to cut off a bit of water, and even the longest hitters find this a difficult tee ball.

 

Well here's the damage from today's qualifier:

 

https://scga-2019scg...m/pages/1855294

 

 

5.59 stroke average??? On a 466 yard hole? The average index of the field of 90 is probably about 1 or 2. Put a field of Tour Pros on the course, and the average score would be about 4.3, give or take. I've never seen a par 4 with that high of a stroke average....

 

The one(!) guy who birdied it picked up almost 2.6 strokes on the field -- on ONE HOLE!!! LOL

 

Discuss....

[BrianMcG]

16 pars, 34 bogeys, 16 doubles, and 15 others?

 

Wow. I bet if everyone played it as a par 5 they may have fared better.

 

Too bad they weren't playing skins that day.

[Obee]

16 pars, 34 bogeys, 16 doubles, and 15 others?

 

Wow. I bet if everyone played it as a par 5 they may have fared better.

 

Too bad they weren't playing skins that day.

 

Yes on the "play it as a par 5" thing.

 

This time of year (cold temps, fairways soft), I would DEFINITELY play it as a 3-shot hole if I were around par with one hole to go. I have generally made par there over the years, but usually with a miss long-left and then a chip and a putt. Any kind of a whiffed driver, and it would be automatic 7-iron, lob wedge for me, though.

[ThinkingPlus]

Ego. That is a classic "safety first" hole. Do anything you have to, no matter what, to keep the ball out of the water. Make no worse than 5; if you make a 4 run at high speed to the clubhouse. Hope the guy that made 3 bought a lottery ticket.

[scottyc15]

That hole is almost an exact replica of #9 at Carlton Woods Nicklaus. I know you've played the CWI a few times, as have I, and that hole drives me nuts. If I hit the fairway, it was a miss because I'm always trying to end up in the left rough right of the bunker.

[Golfjack]

Dog leg left water left or dog leg right water right are the most difficult holes, especially if they are long. Short is OK if you can hit it over the water. Otherwise I'd usually just try to hit the left side of the fairway or at worst the left rough on the dogleg rights. Then it becomes a long approach shot, and yeah it's become a par 5 lol.

 

I'm surprised the hardest hole (18, this one) is almost a stroke harder than 15 the second hardest. Wow.

 

To me this is a well designed hole, challenging and fair.

[b.helts]

I like goose creek. Good golf course.

 

Three of the bottom 4 or 5 made 12, 12, 9 on 18.

 

Which obviously bumps the averages. If this has been the tournament itself and not the qualifier we would see nowhere near 5.5 as an average.

 

We all know in these qualifiers you end up with people playing who really shouldn’t be.

[crapula]

No eagles on the day!

[DavePelz4]

OB...you didn't play in this?

[Obee]

I like goose creek. Good golf course.

 

Three of the bottom 4 or 5 made 12, 12, 9 on 18.

 

Which obviously bumps the averages. If this has been the tournament itself and not the qualifier we would see nowhere near 5.5 as an average.

 

We all know in these qualifiers you end up with people playing who really shouldn't be.

 

Totally true. I was just too lazy to do that homework! LOL!

[Obee]

OB...you didn't play in this?

 

My qualifier is tomorrow at Rustic Canyon.

 

25 mph sustained winds in the forecast, which means gusts to 40 to 50. Top 13 of 90 will advance. Will be 81 or so, I bet. 40 to 50 gusts are just stupid.

 

Three years ago, my buddy and I played in the SCGA Four-Ball qualifier and shot 78, best-ball!!! And we Qualified!! Same conditions: Sustained 25, gusts to 50. Brutal. Hard to even walk directly into a wind like that. I couldn't reach either of the par 5's in THREE SHOTS that year. Driver, 3-wood, 3-wood, 60 yard wedge.

 

I will need to be in "full grind" tomorrow....

[DavePelz4]

OB...you didn't play in this?

 

My qualifier is tomorrow at Rustic Canyon.

 

25 mph sustained winds in the forecast, which means gusts to 40 to 50. Top 13 of 90 will advance. Will be 81 or so, I bet. 40 to 50 gusts are just stupid.

 

Three years ago, my buddy and I played in the SCGA Four-Ball qualifier and shot 78, best-ball!!! And we Qualified!! Same conditions: Sustained 25, gusts to 50. Brutal. Hard to even walk directly into a wind like that. I couldn't reach either of the par 5's in THREE SHOTS that year. Driver, 3-wood, 3-wood, 60 yard wedge.

 

I will need to be in "full grind" tomorrow....

 

Holy Cheese Whiz...how incredibly tough was the round and wind? Saw qualifying scores of 85...it had to truly be difficult.

[cardoustie]

OB...you didn't play in this?

 

My qualifier is tomorrow at Rustic Canyon.

 

25 mph sustained winds in the forecast, which means gusts to 40 to 50. Top 13 of 90 will advance. Will be 81 or so, I bet. 40 to 50 gusts are just stupid.

 

Three years ago, my buddy and I played in the SCGA Four-Ball qualifier and shot 78, best-ball!!! And we Qualified!! Same conditions: Sustained 25, gusts to 50. Brutal. Hard to even walk directly into a wind like that. I couldn't reach either of the par 5's in THREE SHOTS that year. Driver, 3-wood, 3-wood, 60 yard wedge.

 

I will need to be in "full grind" tomorrow....

 

Reminds me of a mid-am qualifier 6 or 7 years back. Shot 81 on a cool (45*) and long (6700) and wet (no roll) and windy day (40-50kmh) and thought I was DONE. 7 guys got in out of 40 or so .,.. 85's made it. 78 was low

 

Some years at diff tracks you need a 74 or better

 

Good look tomorrow Obee

[rangersgoalie]

One of my students has been starting to play really well.

 

We had talked about 18 at Goose Creek a couple days before he played. He had played the course once.

He had a nice cushion going in to 18.

Hit his drive too far left, and just played it as a par five. Missed about a 10 footer for par he said,

But qualified easily.....

Goose is a great course, but pretty easy for good ball strikers until you get to 18.

Then all of a sudden you have an asskicker staring at you to finish your round!

[MtlJeff]

I think it's two fold....pros are typically going to be MUCH more confident hitting longer approaches into greens. So they won't necessarily feel obliged to try a riskier play off the tee. Even a 1-2 index,many of them do not want to hit a 215ys approach into a par 4. A pro is probably still thinking he can make birdies. I would imagine proximity to hole from 190+ or so, is one of the biggest deltas between scratch and pro, of any part of the game.

 

Also the second of the two-fold part is that pros misses with driver are usually going to be less penal and they hit it further, so that also helps

[Obee]

MtlJeff said:

I think it's two fold....pros are typically going to be MUCH more confident hitting longer approaches into greens. So they won't necessarily feel obliged to try a riskier play off the tee. Even a 1-2 index,many of them do not want to hit a 215ys approach into a par 4. A pro is probably still thinking he can make birdies. I would imagine proximity to hole from 190+ or so, is one of the biggest deltas between scratch and pro, of any part of the game.

 

 

 

Also the second of the two-fold part is that pros misses with driver are usually going to be less penal and they hit it further, so that also helps

As usual, sir, spot-on assessment.

I think someone in this thread earlier, though, also pointed out that the bottom third in the field absolutely butchered the hole with 8, 9,'s etc. on it. Some of that is just "give up."

[Luke_Ryan]

Played Goose Creek about a month ago. Birdied 18 from the tips (obviously). Took the most aggressive line possible off the tee, and cleared the water by maybe 10 yards. Had 125 to a back pin, and stuffed my gap wedge to 6 feet. Made the putt. I freakin' love that course. Unfortunately had to pull out of the MidAm qualifier due to a new job and couldn't take off on that day. Wish I had played

[gatorpedsMD]

i hit SW to 6 inches for the tap in.  

[Obee]

Luke_Ryan said:

Played Goose Creek about a month ago. Birdied 18 from the tips (obviously). Took the most aggressive line possible off the tee, and cleared the water by maybe 10 yards. Had 125 to a back pin, and stuffed my gap wedge to 6 feet. Made the putt. I freakin' love that course. Unfortunately had to pull out of the MidAm qualifier due to a new job and couldn't take off on that day. Wish I had played

Wait, you're a mid-am who hits Driver, GW to Goose 18 from the tips and I've never played with you before? How is this??? :-)

Hit me up via PM, and let's play Bear Creek or Victoria soon.... :-)

[Shades234]

I should've tried to qualify up at Rustic. Smooth 85 would've done it.  :#

https://scga-2019scgamidamateurqualifyingrusticc.golfgenius.com/pages/1777786 

 

While I've never played Goose, I've heard good things. BHCC was a bit of a fiesta. Surprised people didn't go lower. 

[dcrocketman]

Played years ago with a a buddy who was on the Canadian tour. This was in the early 90’s and I wasn’t very far removed from my competitive days. We played 9 holes and then had lunch. I hit as far as him, hit it as close as him, figured I still had some serious game.

I was 36 even par in a pretty tough course .

at lunch asked I asked him what he shot on the front.

shot 30 mate he said.

I didn’t believe him, went through his 9 in my head.... yup -6. Easy -6.

obviously played a very different game than me.

they just know how to score 

[Obee]

Shades234 said:

I should've tried to qualify up at Rustic. Smooth 85 would've done it.  :#

https://scga-2019scgamidamateurqualifyingrusticc.golfgenius.com/pages/1777786 

 

While I've never played Goose, I've heard good things. BHCC was a bit of a fiesta. Surprised people didn't go lower. 

Yeah, you should have tried Rustic. It was easy. I was there. LOL

 

[Luke_Ryan]

> @Obee said:

> Luke_Ryan said:

>

>

> Played Goose Creek about a month ago. Birdied 18 from the tips (obviously). Took the most aggressive line possible off the tee, and cleared the water by maybe 10 yards. Had 125 to a back pin, and stuffed my gap wedge to 6 feet. Made the putt. I freakin' love that course. Unfortunately had to pull out of the MidAm qualifier due to a new job and couldn't take off on that day. Wish I had played

>

>

>

>

> Wait, you're a mid-am who hits Driver, GW to Goose 18 from the tips and I've never played with you before? How is this??? :-)

> Hit me up via PM, and let's play Bear Creek or Victoria soon.... :-)

 

I'd love to. Let's do it!

[Luke_Ryan]

> @Obee said:

> Shades234 said:

>

>

> I should've tried to qualify up at Rustic. Smooth 85 would've done it.  :#

> https://scga-2019scgamidamateurqualifyingrusticc.golfgenius.com/pages/1777786 

>

> While I've never played Goose, I've heard good things. BHCC was a bit of a fiesta. Surprised people didn't go lower. 

>

>

>

>

> Yeah, you should have tried Rustic. It was easy. I was there. LOL

 

Heard it was blowing 25-30 consistently and gusting around 40+...I play with a couple of guys whose home course is Rustic and they regularly shoot around even par from the tips there, and they both shot mid 80's during the qualifier. Sounds like absolutely nutty conditions that day.

[Forged4ever]

All that tells me is that So Cali Ams are a bunch of pansy a** p******??

 

Cept for you and Brian!!

 

You’re the only muffins in So Cali?

 

5.59???

 

466yds???

 

paleeeze??

 

Oh, Maddie got me some hybrids 27*, 31* & 35* and anticipating my intitial reaction, she tapes this lil message on the wall next to my locker, lolol? She also posted one at home in my library, lol?

 

It’s gonna be a long road back but if it gets me to the target and hole in less strokes, I’m gonna give it a shot.

 

Stay well Brother?

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend⛳️

RP