No Flags...would your score change?

[dlygrisse]

Let's say you played a course and there were not flags/pins in the holes. You just fired for the center of the green every shot. Assuming you knew where the hole was cut inside 50 yards or so, how much would your score change?

[cxx]

Modern greens are usually built on tiers. Hard to score if you are mostly on the wrong level.

[Titleist_PT23]

At my level (9 index, typically hit 5-6 greens per round), I don't think the scores would change much over the long-run. Not knowing where the pin is from 50-100 yards may cost me a stroke per round, but it's not like a get up and down from this distance consistently. Maybe a shot from 100-150 yards (never hit one close and there will be more pressure on putting). From 150+, I'm just happy to be on the green, as I can't control distance/strike consistently enough to have a small target around the hole.

 

I think this would definitely skew a distribution of scores higher though. Won't have a round where you save par from 50-100 and change a few times, and being on the wrong tier a lot would probably give me a fair number of 4-5 footers for par (which on the bad days you can start missing frequently).

 

Of course, just playing for the middle of the green has the potential to keep you out of trouble (going for tucked pins, etc)., which could improve scores. I miss in bad spots from time to time because I mishit the ball, but I generally avoid taking on a lot of high risk shots if I don't think my odds of success are great (i.e. play for the middle of the green in some situations quite often now).

 

 

[golfgirlrobin]

I’ve played rounds where I’ve purposely played to the center of the green on every hole, regardless of where the pin was. I hit a ton of greens, but scoring really just became a matter of how well I was putting on a particular day. It’s probably a smart way to play for a lot of folks, fewer blow up holes, but it wasn’t much fun.

[bladehunter]

Depends. If I’m on with putter probably would only cost me 1-3 strokes. If I’m off with speed that day could be worth 10. I can 3-4 putt from 60 ft With the best of them. I hit too many greens in good proximity to give the birdie looks up with trying to make pars. It would get in my head quick . The total game would suffer.

[ChipNRun]

> @cxx said:

> Modern greens are usually built on tiers. Hard to score if you are mostly on the wrong level.

 

This is true of my home track, a Nicklaus Signature design. Several of the greens have distinct nodes, so if you land in the center there no telling which way your approach would bleed off. You'd have to pick a node, which can almost be a _sub-green._

[buckeyefl]

> @cxx said:

> Modern greens are usually built on tiers. Hard to score if you are mostly on the wrong level.

 

It's harder if you miss the green on the short side. There are many more "old" courses than new and aiming for the center of the green can be productive for almost any level of player.

[caniac6]

I play nine very early a couple times per week. Sometimes the crew leave the pins out for the greens to be sprayed. I usually play pretty good when I just aim to the middle of the greens.

[MtlJeff]

I actually played a round like that early in the morning one day, because the grounds crew literally forgot to put the flags in LoL.

 

If you play on a course with big greens, or tiered greens, it makes a big difference

 

There were some holes where it was a disaster. Like you can't be above the hole . So if it's a front flag and you don't know that, it's an automatic bogey

[Krt22]

At a muni with pretty flat/round greens, sure. Most of the decent courses around here have pretty intricate green complexes, 3-putts a plenty if you are on the wrong tier

[Davidv]

I am going to say no change, might even improve if not pin hunting.

[MattyO1984]

In the first instance I am going to have to place a proviso on this because even aiming at the middle of every green, it is debatable how many of those greens I would hit, never mind hitting the middle of them.

 

That said, for me, I think it would have to depend on the course. My home course, we have reasonable sized greens and. Not small, not large, just somewhere in between and being in the middle of all of them would probably be OK if I was putting half way decent. On some other courses nearby to us, being in the middle of the green is going to leave you with no more than a 20 foot putt in whatever direction you are putting but then if you were to hit the middle of every green at the Old Course you would be struggling, big time!!

[BearQ]

At my home course(s) there are multiple double greens. Aim middle okay. Uh oh I’ve got 200ft

[ThinkingPlus]

No question that would cost me strokes. Birdies would be dumb luck. Proximity to hole would be worse so score gets worse by definition.

[WarEagleGolf]

Being someone who shortsides himself often....

 

...I'm.exceptional at that shot now. ?

 

I don't think my score would change much, I suck at putting either way, so maybe less pitches and more 3 putts. But as a lower capper, my game is drive in the fwy, on or off with irons, chip/flop/pitch like a pro, putt like a 12-13 capper. Be boring if I hit every green. Need to drain more chips though. Been on a drought.

[JAMH03]

> @dlygrisse said:

> Let's say you played a course and there were not flags/pins in the holes. You just fired for the center of the green every shot. Assuming you knew where the hole was cut inside 50 yards or so, how much would your score change?

From 2/3 worse to maybe 4 better at max. range of 6-7 strokes

 

[North Butte]

Sure it would make my scores worse, on average. I'm fortunate enough not to play on courses that have flat, boring greens where it doesn't matter where your ball ends up relative to that day's hole location.

 

I learned to play on a cow-pasture course where it made no difference where the flag was. The greens were tiny, almost all of them were higher in the back than the front and there was very little internal contour (there couldn't be because they were so small). And they probably Stimped about 4-5, maybe 6 on a good day. Formula was simply to club for the front edge of every green and aim for the middle. Either leave an uphill (slow) putt or an uphill (slow) chip. On a couple of the larger greens maybe club for the middle instead of the front.

 

I've played there a handful of times in recent years and I'm amazed I wasn't bored out of my mind when I played there 3x a week.

[tgoodspe1991]

Depends on the size of the greens. When I played Pebble last year, which have the smallest greens I have ever played, middle of the green gives you a short birdie putt on almost every hole. If you go play a links course like St. Andrews where the greens can be gigantic, middle of the green could not be that much of a help.

 

However, I would bet most peoples' scores would drop if they could putt instead of chip. Statistically people will 2-putt far more often than they will chip and get up-and-down. Or said another way, you're far more likely to make a green-side chipping bogey than 3-putt.

[Zen_Golfer]

At my level, I doubt things would change much. I aim for the center of the green anyways.

[LeftDaddy]

It absolutely hurts your score. I played late one afternoon after the grounds crew had taken the flags out. I aimed for the center of every green. I somehow ended up on the “wrong side” of every single green, or ended up on the wrong side of the fairway for a good approach angle. It became hilarious after a handful of holes.

 

We like to think that the ball rarely goes where we aim it, but that little unintended experiment taught me that isn’t actually true. I do, in fact, have some control over where the ball ends up (distance and direction) despite it not feeling that way a lot of times.

[Skydiver22]

My daughters swing coach told her to do this when she was in college and was struggling with scoring.... she did it her next tourney and shot 1 under. ended up being her mantra for the rest of her college career. She told me it freed up her mind and reduced the stress of having to hit the perfect shot. Aim for the middle of every fairway, and aim for the middle of every green.

[ColdOkieGolf]

Interesting question. I could go one further and just aim at bunkers. Maybe I'd accidentally hit more greens than I normally do :lol:

[KarstenK]

I'm guessing my score wouldn't change more than a stroke a round. Iron accuracy has never been one of my strengths so just getting to the center of the green would be fine.

[North Butte]

Years ago I had a friend who *hated* rangefinders. He believed they actually caused players to play worse AND they slowed down play AND they were an unfair advantage that ought to be against the Rules of Golf because they made it unnecessary to be able to eyeball distances.

 

His notion, best as I could parse the so-called "logic", was that know it's 156 yard to the hole causes me to tense up due to thinking that I had to hit precisely a 156 yard shot. If all I know was that it was somewhere between 130 and 160 that would free me up to make a relaxed swing. What he left out was the explanation of how a relaxed swing magically causes the ball to go 156 with my 135-yard club.

 

There seems to be similar thinking in this remove-the-flags thing. If you have a flag to aim at, you'll just tense up and probably duff the shot because you had a very exact target. But if you just generally aim for somewhere up toward the middle-ish of the green you'll relax and hit one good shot after another. I guess there might be someone out there who is such an emotional basket case they can't deal with the pressure of aiming at a flag instead of a general area. But that is not how normal human being work.

 

I think it's akin to that idea that "on a long putt just ignore the hole and try to get it within a 6-foot-diameter circle". That advice never specifies what happens if you miss your 6-foot circle by 5 feet and now have a 8-foot second putt.

[ry1808]

When I was a junior we had a training camp at a course with fantastic practice facilities.

 

The first day was purely practice and swing work.

 

The second day we went out on the course and played 2 rounds. In the morning the course was setup as normal and we all played pretty well (I think there was 8 of us and all sub 5 handicap). In the afternoon we went back out again. On the first hole you drove over a crest to a blind fairway, getting over the crest we found out the holes had been moved and pins taken out. If we where inside 125 yards we where told which quadrant of the green the hole was in, if we where inside 50 yards we where given how many yards on and from a particular side the pin was. So in both those instances we had a rough idea but not exact.

 

Interestingly all of us had an increase in the GIR percentages from morning to afternoon rounds. I think at least 4-5 of us actually improved our gross scores. Now some of that may have been because we where playing the course for the second time in a day and had a better feel for green speed and how to play off the tee but it was certainly an eye opener...

[chisag]

> @MtlJeff said:

> I actually played a round like that early in the morning one day, because the grounds crew literally forgot to put the flags in LoL.

>

> If you play on a course with big greens, or tiered greens, it makes a big difference

>

> There were some holes where it was a disaster. Like you can't be above the hole . So if it's a front flag and you don't know that, it's an automatic bogey

 

 

... I played a CC for the first time on a Monday employee day and the pins were not in on the front 9. I estimate it cost me 5 or more strokes because the greens were rolling at a 12+ and above the hole meant rolling off the green in some cases. Pin up front and being just off the green and chipping or putting from 20 feet was much better then being 10 feet above the hole. And a few tiered greens were also a disaster when shooting to the middle. Again, bette to chip from the right tier than try and roll up or down a sever slope. Back 9 had pins in and I was able to be much more selective in my approach shots.

 

... I also play plenty of muni's were middle of the green would not be too bad a play. I think it really depends on the course and the slope/speed of the greens.