4 full days in St. Andrews, help with a schedule

[SCalGolfer]

> @gregkeller said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

>

> Trying to save 140 pounds. If i get an advanced time, i need to pay 330 for the old course and another trust course. I was already planning on buying a 3 day ticket, so now i'd be stuck paying 330 to play the old course instead of 190.

 

You can get on as a single. Don't sweat that. Together is another question. Man, after looking at the greens fees it's getting so out of control. Most locals pay hardly more than that for an annual membership.

[smb4ua]

> @SCalGolfer said:

> > @gregkeller said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

> >

> > Trying to save 140 pounds. If i get an advanced time, i need to pay 330 for the old course and another trust course. I was already planning on buying a 3 day ticket, so now i'd be stuck paying 330 to play the old course instead of 190.

>

> You can get on as a single. Don't sweat that. Together is another question. Man, after looking at the greens fees it's getting so out of control. Most locals pay hardly more than that for an annual membership.

 

With regards to out of control greens fees, I just played 8 top 100 courses in the world while in Scotland and NI, and my average cost was probably somewhere between $250 and $300. Now look at the Golf Digest Top 100 public in the US and the $400+ fees at places like Doral that are just laughable. The cost over there may have increased in recent years, but there’s still far more value for the money when you consider the caliber of the courses.

[SCalGolfer]

> @smb4ua said:

> > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > @gregkeller said:

> > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

> > >

> > > Trying to save 140 pounds. If i get an advanced time, i need to pay 330 for the old course and another trust course. I was already planning on buying a 3 day ticket, so now i'd be stuck paying 330 to play the old course instead of 190.

> >

> > You can get on as a single. Don't sweat that. Together is another question. Man, after looking at the greens fees it's getting so out of control. Most locals pay hardly more than that for an annual membership.

>

> With regards to out of control greens fees, I just played 8 top 100 courses in the world while in Scotland and NI, and my average cost was probably somewhere between $250 and $300. Now look at the Golf Digest Top 100 public in the US and the $400+ fees at places like Doral that are just laughable. The cost over there may have increased in recent years, but there’s still far more value for the money when you consider the caliber of the courses.

 

Good point. It's just sad in my opinion that the middle class golfer cannot experience the best architecture (with a few exceptions) golf has to offer. The sport is viewed as elitist by many. I think that's one of the reasons for decline. In the UK it's much more democratic with the poor man being a member of the local club as well. I get the reasoning but it's disappointing to see UK going the way of high greens fees. Money talks in the end...

[smb4ua]

> @SCalGolfer said:

> > @smb4ua said:

> > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > @gregkeller said:

> > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

> > > >

> > > > Trying to save 140 pounds. If i get an advanced time, i need to pay 330 for the old course and another trust course. I was already planning on buying a 3 day ticket, so now i'd be stuck paying 330 to play the old course instead of 190.

> > >

> > > You can get on as a single. Don't sweat that. Together is another question. Man, after looking at the greens fees it's getting so out of control. Most locals pay hardly more than that for an annual membership.

> >

> > With regards to out of control greens fees, I just played 8 top 100 courses in the world while in Scotland and NI, and my average cost was probably somewhere between $250 and $300. Now look at the Golf Digest Top 100 public in the US and the $400+ fees at places like Doral that are just laughable. The cost over there may have increased in recent years, but there’s still far more value for the money when you consider the caliber of the courses.

>

> Good point. It's just sad in my opinion that the middle class golfer cannot experience the best architecture (with a few exceptions) golf has to offer. The sport is viewed as elitist by many. I think that's one of the reasons for decline. In the UK it's much more democratic with the poor man being a member of the local club as well. I get the reasoning but it's disappointing to see UK going the way of high greens fees. Money talks in the end...

 

I agree with your sentiment. My caddie at Royal Dornoch was a firefighter and is also a full member. We’re talking #2 course outside the US and top 15 overall. Cost is 500 pounds per year and that’s it! Im glad it doesn’t cost them an arm and a leg to play since they’re blessed with so many terrific courses.

[Rohlio]

> @smb4ua said:

> > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > @smb4ua said:

> > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > @gregkeller said:

> > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Trying to save 140 pounds. If i get an advanced time, i need to pay 330 for the old course and another trust course. I was already planning on buying a 3 day ticket, so now i'd be stuck paying 330 to play the old course instead of 190.

> > > >

> > > > You can get on as a single. Don't sweat that. Together is another question. Man, after looking at the greens fees it's getting so out of control. Most locals pay hardly more than that for an annual membership.

> > >

> > > With regards to out of control greens fees, I just played 8 top 100 courses in the world while in Scotland and NI, and my average cost was probably somewhere between $250 and $300. Now look at the Golf Digest Top 100 public in the US and the $400+ fees at places like Doral that are just laughable. The cost over there may have increased in recent years, but there’s still far more value for the money when you consider the caliber of the courses.

> >

> > Good point. It's just sad in my opinion that the middle class golfer cannot experience the best architecture (with a few exceptions) golf has to offer. The sport is viewed as elitist by many. I think that's one of the reasons for decline. In the UK it's much more democratic with the poor man being a member of the local club as well. I get the reasoning but it's disappointing to see UK going the way of high greens fees. Money talks in the end...

>

> I agree with your sentiment. My caddie at Royal Dornoch was a firefighter and is also a full member. We’re talking #2 course outside the US and top 15 overall. Cost is 500 pounds per year and that’s it! Im glad it doesn’t cost them an arm and a leg to play since they’re blessed with so many terrific courses.

 

My caddie at Dornoch said the same thing 1000 pound initiation and 500 pounds a year. I love this. I am on vacation and I am happy to have them soak me so they can enjoy their lives and heritage. The more they make off the tourists the better they can make their own lives and community. Good for them!

[davep043]

> @Rohlio said:

> > @smb4ua said:

> > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > @smb4ua said:

> > > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > > @gregkeller said:

> > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Trying to save 140 pounds. If i get an advanced time, i need to pay 330 for the old course and another trust course. I was already planning on buying a 3 day ticket, so now i'd be stuck paying 330 to play the old course instead of 190.

> > > > >

> > > > > You can get on as a single. Don't sweat that. Together is another question. Man, after looking at the greens fees it's getting so out of control. Most locals pay hardly more than that for an annual membership.

> > > >

> > > > With regards to out of control greens fees, I just played 8 top 100 courses in the world while in Scotland and NI, and my average cost was probably somewhere between $250 and $300. Now look at the Golf Digest Top 100 public in the US and the $400+ fees at places like Doral that are just laughable. The cost over there may have increased in recent years, but there’s still far more value for the money when you consider the caliber of the courses.

> > >

> > > Good point. It's just sad in my opinion that the middle class golfer cannot experience the best architecture (with a few exceptions) golf has to offer. The sport is viewed as elitist by many. I think that's one of the reasons for decline. In the UK it's much more democratic with the poor man being a member of the local club as well. I get the reasoning but it's disappointing to see UK going the way of high greens fees. Money talks in the end...

> >

> > I agree with your sentiment. My caddie at Royal Dornoch was a firefighter and is also a full member. We’re talking #2 course outside the US and top 15 overall. Cost is 500 pounds per year and that’s it! Im glad it doesn’t cost them an arm and a leg to play since they’re blessed with so many terrific courses.

>

> My caddie at Dornoch said the same thing 1000 pound initiation and 500 pounds a year. I love this. I am on vacation and I am happy to have them soak me so they can enjoy their lives and heritage. The more they make off the tourists the better they can make their own lives and community. Good for them!

 

I second this sentiment. Most courses of this calibre in the US are fully private, and we have little or no chance to play most of them. But in the UK and Ireland, the large majority of these outstanding courses offer the opportunity for anyone to play, and charge a significant fee to play. It seems a fair trade-off.

[El Gringo]

> @davep043 said:

> > @Rohlio said:

> > > @smb4ua said:

> > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > @smb4ua said:

> > > > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > > > @gregkeller said:

> > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Trying to save 140 pounds. If i get an advanced time, i need to pay 330 for the old course and another trust course. I was already planning on buying a 3 day ticket, so now i'd be stuck paying 330 to play the old course instead of 190.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can get on as a single. Don't sweat that. Together is another question. Man, after looking at the greens fees it's getting so out of control. Most locals pay hardly more than that for an annual membership.

> > > > >

> > > > > With regards to out of control greens fees, I just played 8 top 100 courses in the world while in Scotland and NI, and my average cost was probably somewhere between $250 and $300. Now look at the Golf Digest Top 100 public in the US and the $400+ fees at places like Doral that are just laughable. The cost over there may have increased in recent years, but there’s still far more value for the money when you consider the caliber of the courses.

> > > >

> > > > Good point. It's just sad in my opinion that the middle class golfer cannot experience the best architecture (with a few exceptions) golf has to offer. The sport is viewed as elitist by many. I think that's one of the reasons for decline. In the UK it's much more democratic with the poor man being a member of the local club as well. I get the reasoning but it's disappointing to see UK going the way of high greens fees. Money talks in the end...

> > >

> > > I agree with your sentiment. My caddie at Royal Dornoch was a firefighter and is also a full member. We’re talking #2 course outside the US and top 15 overall. Cost is 500 pounds per year and that’s it! Im glad it doesn’t cost them an arm and a leg to play since they’re blessed with so many terrific courses.

> >

> > My caddie at Dornoch said the same thing 1000 pound initiation and 500 pounds a year. I love this. I am on vacation and I am happy to have them soak me so they can enjoy their lives and heritage. The more they make off the tourists the better they can make their own lives and community. Good for them!

>

> I second this sentiment. Most courses of this calibre in the US are fully private, and we have little or no chance to play most of them. But in the UK and Ireland, the large majority of these outstanding courses offer the opportunity for anyone to play, and charge a significant fee to play. It seems a fair trade-off.

 

I am not so sure about this. Clubs can get so much cash in the bank that they may feel it necessary to spend...sometimes to the detriment of the course. Let us not forget that watering systems were installed and used in ill-advised ways, which almost universally set back the quality of heathland and some links courses. I also note that some clubs add carts and sometimes cart paths. Sometimes, when clubs have enough cash, it becomes a cycle to earn more cash by continuing to make "upgrades" which will then lead to more visitors and more cash. Then there are the many awful clubhouses that have been "purposely" built that do their best to mimic Premier Inns. I say beware of money...it takes wise course managers and committees to spend the money wisely and with the long term goal of preserving the heritage of courses.

 

Of course, there is some good as well. Some clubs have figured out that spending a ton of dosh on watering their courses wasn't too clever, and now use the cash to reverse that trend!

 

Ciao

[duffer987]

> @"El Gringo" said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @Rohlio said:

> > > > @smb4ua said:

> > > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > > @smb4ua said:

> > > > > > > @SCalGolfer said:

> > > > > > > > @gregkeller said:

> > > > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > > > Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Trying to save 140 pounds. If i get an advanced time, i need to pay 330 for the old course and another trust course. I was already planning on buying a 3 day ticket, so now i'd be stuck paying 330 to play the old course instead of 190.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You can get on as a single. Don't sweat that. Together is another question. Man, after looking at the greens fees it's getting so out of control. Most locals pay hardly more than that for an annual membership.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With regards to out of control greens fees, I just played 8 top 100 courses in the world while in Scotland and NI, and my average cost was probably somewhere between $250 and $300. Now look at the Golf Digest Top 100 public in the US and the $400+ fees at places like Doral that are just laughable. The cost over there may have increased in recent years, but there’s still far more value for the money when you consider the caliber of the courses.

> > > > >

> > > > > Good point. It's just sad in my opinion that the middle class golfer cannot experience the best architecture (with a few exceptions) golf has to offer. The sport is viewed as elitist by many. I think that's one of the reasons for decline. In the UK it's much more democratic with the poor man being a member of the local club as well. I get the reasoning but it's disappointing to see UK going the way of high greens fees. Money talks in the end...

> > > >

> > > > I agree with your sentiment. My caddie at Royal Dornoch was a firefighter and is also a full member. We’re talking #2 course outside the US and top 15 overall. Cost is 500 pounds per year and that’s it! Im glad it doesn’t cost them an arm and a leg to play since they’re blessed with so many terrific courses.

> > >

> > > My caddie at Dornoch said the same thing 1000 pound initiation and 500 pounds a year. I love this. I am on vacation and I am happy to have them soak me so they can enjoy their lives and heritage. The more they make off the tourists the better they can make their own lives and community. Good for them!

> >

> > I second this sentiment. Most courses of this calibre in the US are fully private, and we have little or no chance to play most of them. But in the UK and Ireland, the large majority of these outstanding courses offer the opportunity for anyone to play, and charge a significant fee to play. It seems a fair trade-off.

>

> I am not so sure about this. Clubs can get so much cash in the bank that they may feel it necessary to spend...sometimes to the detriment of the course. Let us not forget that watering systems were installed and used in ill-advised ways, which almost universally set back the quality of heathland and some links courses. I also note that some clubs add carts and sometimes cart paths. Sometimes, when clubs have enough cash, it becomes a cycle to earn more cash by continuing to make "upgrades" which will then lead to more visitors and more cash. Then there are the many awful clubhouses that have been "purposely" built that do their best to mimic Premier Inns. I say beware of money...it takes wise course managers and committees to spend the money wisely and with the long term goal of preserving the heritage of courses.

>

> Of course, there is some good as well. Some clubs have figured out that spending a ton of dosh on watering their courses wasn't too clever, and now use the cash to reverse that trend!

>

> Ciao

 

That was a min-rant looking for somewhere to happen, wasn't it? ;-)

Some people will always spend unwisely, such is the way of the word, but do you think Dornoch really would be 'better off' without visitor play?

Sure sure grubby North Americans and Japanese wouldn't occupy parts of the teesheet when you wanted to come out for a game - and there wouldn't be coaches in the car park - but I get a sense from the more geographically isolated clubs, most are happy with the trade off, in the reduced subscriptions, if nothing else, that were referenced by Dave and Rohlio.