Game Improvement Irons and X100s?!

[Stanks]

Well boys. It’s time I swallow my pride, give myself an “inner cry”, and move on from the bladeish life.

Long story short, I have 919 Tours 4-9 with X100s and an SM7 46* with X100. Life has gotten in my way and I’m just not playing as much and ball striking is garbage. I am doing my duty and smartening up and moving back into GI irons.

Right now, the M5 irons are at the top of my list but, I play with X100s and have for a while. 7 iron carries 165-170 with my 919 tours and my cobra MBs before those and my Wilson V5 before those and PXG etc .

Worry is something serious knuckle balls obviously because of lofts and a rigid shaft like the one I use along with the construction of the club.

Anyone having a similar experience? I am thinking I should make the lofts 2 degrees weak and get a ball with more spin off irons to ensure I have the stopping power and fit my gaps.

Any input would be huge.

Thanks brothers. Hit them straight this weekend (or a nice 1-3 yard draw)!

[morgan1819]

I think you are on the right track with going a couple degrees weaker on the lofts, and possibly a ball change after everything else is figured out.

Since you are a Mizuno guy, you owe to yourself to give the Hot Metals or HMP's a go ... unless you already did. :)

 

---

[Stanks]

> @morgan1819 said:

> I think you are on the right track with going a couple degrees weaker on the lofts, and possibly a ball change after everything else is figured out.

> Since you are a Mizuno guy, you owe to yourself to give the Hot Metals or HMP's a go ... unless you already did. :)

>

> ---

I did give both a whirl. Very nice. I do, however, have more readily available support with other companies that I’d like to use.

Thanks for the input!

[Myherobobhope]

I don’t think you will spin the ball that much less with gi heads... I’ve got the hot metal pros and tried a variety of shafts and none of them changed my spin rate all that much.

Ended up in dg 120s and I like them thus far.

[arbeck]

If you're worried about the knuckle balls and lofts you could play something like the Hot Metal or Hot Metal Pro and play 5-PW. You may need to bend a few clubs weak and a few clubs strong to match your current lofts. You also could order them all a half inch longer and half a degree flatter to match your current set. Then you'd basically have clubs that match your current set. In fact, what I'd probably do in your shoes is drop your 4, 5, and 6i and depending on how you feel about it perhaps your 7i. Then replace them with the Hot Metal or Hot Metal Pro 5, 6, 7, and possibly 8. Order them a half inch long and a half degree flat. Bend the 5 and 6 a degree weak, and if you get the 8 bend it a degree stronger. Start there and then see if you need some additional adjusting of lofts. The set would blend well, and it would be up to you to see if you could handle having two 7i's or two 8i's in the bag.

[Stanks]

> @Myherobobhope said:

> I don’t think you will spin the ball that much less with gi heads... I’ve got the hot metal pros and tried a variety of shafts and none of them changed my spin rate all that much.

> Ended up in dg 120s and I like them thus far.

I see I see. My guess is that my spin will drop off a bit due to the weight placement in the heads versus the blade heads and obviously a bit larger sweetspot and springy face in the M5. There’s still a lot of intel to be gathered and testing needed but, I don’t think it’ll be a monumental move.

[gators78]

i210s with the lighter 120 gram X100s, problem solved.

[Stanks]

> @arbeck said:

> If you're worried about the knuckle balls and lofts you could play something like the Hot Metal or Hot Metal Pro and play 5-PW. You may need to bend a few clubs weak and a few clubs strong to match your current lofts. You also could order them all a half inch longer and half a degree flatter to match your current set. Then you'd basically have clubs that match your current set. In fact, what I'd probably do in your shoes is drop your 4, 5, and 6i and depending on how you feel about it perhaps your 7i. Then replace them with the Hot Metal or Hot Metal Pro 5, 6, 7, and possibly 8. Order them a half inch long and a half degree flat. Bend the 5 and 6 a degree weak, and if you get the 8 bend it a degree stronger. Start there and then see if you need some additional adjusting of lofts. The set would blend well, and it would be up to you to see if you could handle having two 7i's or two 8i's in the bag.

 

Blended sets are a pet peev and not an option for me. I like consistency in the line but, obviously this far in my golf life, thing haven’t been working out. That’s a lot of bending and changing around and it all makes sense when I reread it 5 times.

> @gators78 said:

> i210s with the lighter 120 gram X100s, problem solved.

Nah. Ping doesn’t get my money except for drivers and woods. The irons, I can do without but, I will for sure give them another try at the hitting bay.

 

[greenwavegolfer]

Srixon Z585s are a good option. Forged body so easily bent if you want to weaken them a bit (and they're not as obscenely strong as some GI irons to begin with). They also don't look huge and garish looking down on them like some GI irons can as well. Might be a better visual transition from the 919T while still giving a lot more forgiveness. Could even transition to a 785 for the short irons and wedges.

[Mahamilto]

X100s are fairly low spin and fairly low launch, but there are certainly much lower spinning options around. I played c-tapers in 3 consecutive sets of forged cavity backs (FgTour v2 V4 and AP2) and they spun plenty! I could even pull the 9/PW back a few feet, while the x100s in those same offerings were ballooning. Case and point: the c-tapers were much lower spin than the x100 for me.

 

So, I felt c-tapers would be a nice combo with a set of slightly lower spinning irons and tried them in 545s and my current TMBs. It did NOT work out well. I could not even hold greens with the mid irons and even the short irons were hitting and going forward a few yards. I stuck AMT x100s into the TMBs and boom... perfect. I stick the mid irons within a yard or two and the short irons stop dead or even pull back just a foot or so.

 

I guess what I’m trying to say is the head and shaft COMBO will vary and needs to fit your needs and game, but from experience x100s (especially the AMTs) spin plenty for this mid to high spin player even in fairly low spin heads.

 

Ball choice also impacts this a ton. If you play a high spin ball (I do) then you can pair with a lower spin head/shaft. If you play a low spin ball, you may want to avoid a really low spin shaft, especially in a low spin head.

[Exactice808]

> @Stanks said:

> Well boys. It’s time I swallow my pride, give myself an “inner cry”, and move on from the bladeish life.

> Long story short, I have 919 Tours 4-9 with X100s and an SM7 46* with X100. Life has gotten in my way and I’m just not playing as much and ball striking is garbage. I am doing my duty and smartening up and moving back into GI irons.

> Right now, the M5 irons are at the top of my list but, I play with X100s and have for a while. 7 iron carries 165-170 with my 919 tours and my cobra MBs before those and my Wilson V5 before those and PXG etc .

> Worry is something serious knuckle balls obviously because of lofts and a rigid shaft like the one I use along with the construction of the club.

> Anyone having a similar experience? I am thinking I should make the lofts 2 degrees weak and get a ball with more spin off irons to ensure I have the stopping power and fit my gaps.

> Any input would be huge.

> Thanks brothers. Hit them straight this weekend (or a nice 1-3 yard draw)!

 

Hey OP, so I had a set of 714 AP2's with X100 in them. The surely launch lower and spun less, BUT during this learning period I did not have the best quality of swing.

I played well though and shot good with it but surely it was NOT the most optimal launch. The biggest factor for me as I got a little older the body would fatigue and by the 16th hole swinging 130gram Xstiff shafts were becoming more of a burden.

 

I got re-fit again, 1 for something lighter and for something that would place my shots in a better launch window. I tried a whole bunch Nippon Modus, Ctapers, S300's KBS tours, but oddly the one that ended up giving me the best consistency and shot window NS pro 1150 GH's

 

With that again, my point... I played X100's in my AP2 for about 2 solid years. had no real issue of knuckle balls or loss of spin. The launch was a littler lower then preferred BUT it was very playable. If you have a good tempo and load the shaft for the X100's then play what gives you the best consistency.

 

If you are concerned about spin and launch then take them to a fitter to find out if you are truly launching them lower and spinning them needlessly less. There are SOME really really good shafts out there now days... that could aid in some many new factors.....

 

GL OP!

[Stanks]

Thanks for the input brothers. I dropped my Mizunos off to get some work done today and hit a few M5 irons in the hitting bay with a few different shaft options. Unfortunately, the fitters couldn't get me into any X100s but, the lighter shafts paired with the Bridgestone E12? I think is the ball they have in the bays.

As assumed, very forgiving and actually pretty good feeling irons. The M5s don't disappoint. They'll take some getting used to. I still won't pull the trigger until I can get some serious time in with my shaft choice or have a fitter show me better numbers otherwise with my gamer ball (TP5 / TP5X / when those are gone MTB X).

Another thing I noted is that these clubs on the TM website measure about a HALF INCH longer on the M5. I'm sure that will aid in assistance slightly for length of shot / speed but, I don't need that.

Initial reads with stock 7 irons were 180 carry with roll out and the spin was in the 5000 ish range which actually, given the loft, doesn't sound way away than a flushly struck 6 iron blade with the right ball.

[Nessism]

You might want to ask Taylormade what type of DG X100's they use, taper tip or parallel. Reason being there is a fairly significant difference in stiffness and weight uniformity through these two shafts. .370 is descending weight and softer compared to the constant weight .355 tip version shafts.

[leejohnkieh]

Why not try the P790's? You'll get the forgiveness you're looking for and with similar distances (albeit a little more yardage).

[pdaero]

Maybe it's just me, but 5000 RPM is even pretty low for a 6 iron. I would try to bring a few of your gamer ball to get the real-life spin and performance numbers that you would come to expect.

[Stanks]

> @Nessism said:

> You might want to ask Taylormade what type of DG X100's they use, taper tip or parallel. Reason being there is a fairly significant difference in stiffness and weight uniformity through these two shafts. .370 is descending weight and softer compared to the constant weight .355 tip version shafts.

I’ll take that into consideration. Thanks brother.

> @leejohnkieh said:

> Why not try the P790's? You'll get the forgiveness you're looking for and with similar distances (albeit a little more yardage).

That went nightmare for me. I had them and they were fun. But my lofts and gaps were all over the place to fill holes.

> @pdaero said:

> Maybe it's just me, but 5000 RPM is even pretty low for a 6 iron. I would try to bring a few of your gamer ball to get the real-life spin and performance numbers that you would come to expect.

The 6 iron has a lower loft equivalent to a standard 5 iron MB or CB. So, it makes sense. I’ll be bringing my gamers to the next fitting.

 

[gvogel]

Pick up a slightly used set of Titleist 712 AP1's. The lofts are not jacked up (7-iron is 34*). Reshaft with X100.

 

You'll end up with a set of clubs like Ben Curtis (remember him? Open Champ) used to win a PGA Tour event in Texas.

[Tree Levino]

1. AP2 - things are basically GI

2. i200/i210 - these ARE GI in my opinion

3. 585 - Might not need X100 as they spin low already

[Nessism]

> @gvogel said:

> Pick up a slightly used set of Titleist 712 AP1's. The lofts are not jacked up (7-iron is 34*). Reshaft with X100.

>

> You'll end up with a set of clubs like Ben Curtis (remember him? Open Champ) used to win a PGA Tour event in Texas.

 

> @balls_deep said:

> 1. AP2 - things are basically GI

> 2. i200/i210 - these ARE GI in my opinion

> 3. 585 - Might not need X100 as they spin low already

 

The man wants M5's so why the continual questioning of his decision?

 

My only caution relates to some of the older version Taylormade spring face irons having had issues with the faces caving in with usage. M2 for example. I'm not up to speed regarding the newer irons though. If I was going down the road towards a new set of these I'd be sure to purchase through an authorized seller, that way you will get the full retail warranty in case something happens down the road.

[Stanks]

> @gvogel said:

> Pick up a slightly used set of Titleist 712 AP1's. The lofts are not jacked up (7-iron is 34*). Reshaft with X100.

>

> You'll end up with a set of clubs like Ben Curtis (remember him? Open Champ) used to win a PGA Tour event in Texas.

 

I’ll give them a hit at the bay. Thanks!

> @balls_deep said:

> 1. AP2 - things are basically GI

> 2. i200/i210 - these ARE GI in my opinion

> 3. 585 - Might not need X100 as they spin low already

 

Thanks brother. I am pretty much dead set on TM product as they are the the easiest for support. I will try hitting those though! AP2 is a fun one, Ping I just never got on with and the 585s I continue to hear great things.

> @Nessism said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > Pick up a slightly used set of Titleist 712 AP1's. The lofts are not jacked up (7-iron is 34*). Reshaft with X100.

> >

> > You'll end up with a set of clubs like Ben Curtis (remember him? Open Champ) used to win a PGA Tour event in Texas.

>

> > @balls_deep said:

> > 1. AP2 - things are basically GI

> > 2. i200/i210 - these ARE GI in my opinion

> > 3. 585 - Might not need X100 as they spin low already

>

> The man wants M5's so why the continual questioning of his decision?

>

> My only caution relates to some of the older version Taylormade spring face irons having had issues with the faces caving in with usage. M2 for example. I'm not up to speed regarding the newer irons though. If I was going down the road towards a new set of these I'd be sure to purchase through an authorized seller, that way you will get the full retail warranty in case something happens down the road.

Thanks pal! Yes, I am only going newer version.

 

[Tree Levino]

> @Stanks said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > Pick up a slightly used set of Titleist 712 AP1's. The lofts are not jacked up (7-iron is 34*). Reshaft with X100.

> >

> > You'll end up with a set of clubs like Ben Curtis (remember him? Open Champ) used to win a PGA Tour event in Texas.

>

> I’ll give them a hit at the bay. Thanks!

> > @balls_deep said:

> > 1. AP2 - things are basically GI

> > 2. i200/i210 - these ARE GI in my opinion

> > 3. 585 - Might not need X100 as they spin low already

>

> Thanks brother. I am pretty much dead set on TM product as they are the the easiest for support. I will try hitting those though! AP2 is a fun one, Ping I just never got on with and the 585s I continue to hear great things.

> > @Nessism said:

> > > @gvogel said:

> > > Pick up a slightly used set of Titleist 712 AP1's. The lofts are not jacked up (7-iron is 34*). Reshaft with X100.

> > >

> > > You'll end up with a set of clubs like Ben Curtis (remember him? Open Champ) used to win a PGA Tour event in Texas.

> >

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > 1. AP2 - things are basically GI

> > > 2. i200/i210 - these ARE GI in my opinion

> > > 3. 585 - Might not need X100 as they spin low already

> >

> > The man wants M5's so why the continual questioning of his decision?

> >

> > My only caution relates to some of the older version Taylormade spring face irons having had issues with the faces caving in with usage. M2 for example. I'm not up to speed regarding the newer irons though. If I was going down the road towards a new set of these I'd be sure to purchase through an authorized seller, that way you will get the full retail warranty in case something happens down the road.

> Thanks pal! Yes, I am only going newer version.

>

 

If going for TM don't sleep on the P770. I think they're an underrated iron. Good spin so should be fine with X100, still forgiving enough and a good shape still. Plus they can be had at a VERY reasonable price now. Don't give up that butter forging!

[golfjam]

I play HMP with C Taper Lite and my 4 iron flies as high as my 7. Even my thin shots still fly high and almost same distance. I tried a set of i500 with X100 and it took some effort to hit it low. Not sure about M5 but I believe it would be no different.

[MtlJeff]

I played G15's with X100's maybe 7-8 years ago. I considered getting G410's this year and doing same. No reason not to do it, helps keep flight manageable without overspinning if you are fast swing speed

[Stanks]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @Stanks said:

> > > @gvogel said:

> > > Pick up a slightly used set of Titleist 712 AP1's. The lofts are not jacked up (7-iron is 34*). Reshaft with X100.

> > >

> > > You'll end up with a set of clubs like Ben Curtis (remember him? Open Champ) used to win a PGA Tour event in Texas.

> >

> > I’ll give them a hit at the bay. Thanks!

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > 1. AP2 - things are basically GI

> > > 2. i200/i210 - these ARE GI in my opinion

> > > 3. 585 - Might not need X100 as they spin low already

> >

> > Thanks brother. I am pretty much dead set on TM product as they are the the easiest for support. I will try hitting those though! AP2 is a fun one, Ping I just never got on with and the 585s I continue to hear great things.

> > > @Nessism said:

> > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > Pick up a slightly used set of Titleist 712 AP1's. The lofts are not jacked up (7-iron is 34*). Reshaft with X100.

> > > >

> > > > You'll end up with a set of clubs like Ben Curtis (remember him? Open Champ) used to win a PGA Tour event in Texas.

> > >

> > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > 1. AP2 - things are basically GI

> > > > 2. i200/i210 - these ARE GI in my opinion

> > > > 3. 585 - Might not need X100 as they spin low already

> > >

> > > The man wants M5's so why the continual questioning of his decision?

> > >

> > > My only caution relates to some of the older version Taylormade spring face irons having had issues with the faces caving in with usage. M2 for example. I'm not up to speed regarding the newer irons though. If I was going down the road towards a new set of these I'd be sure to purchase through an authorized seller, that way you will get the full retail warranty in case something happens down the road.

> > Thanks pal! Yes, I am only going newer version.

> >

>

> If going for TM don't sleep on the P770. I think they're an underrated iron. Good spin so should be fine with X100, still forgiving enough and a good shape still. Plus they can be had at a VERY reasonable price now. Don't give up that butter forging!

Thanks for the recommendation. I have had some experience with the 770s, 730s, 750s and 790s respectively. All of them were and still are very cherry. That was when I was striping the ball and had to fear of what clubs I played on the course or at the range. I am going for GI clubs (not Players style clubs) for the assistance and help on those off shots. And I am having a lot of them in the past half year.

I took everyones recommendations from the G410s, I210s, some TMBs from Titleist, a few other different GI clubs not mentioned and was AS happy as I was with the M5s. So, that is where my money will likely go.

I gave them all the attention they deserved and tried every shot possible from stock to cutty to low to draw etc. etc. I am looking forward to the changes and figuring out whats next for my game.

Expect to see my Mizunos go on sale somewhat soon here.

Thanks for everyones help. The adventure is just re-beginning for me.