Leaving the pin in?

[Newby]

No one seems to mention the third option of having it attended anymore. Has the change eliminated that and was that the intention of the RBs? Did that take time? Do the players who wanted a target just leave it in now?

[Mr. Bean]

In my experience nobody is attending any more, at least have not seen that done this season.

[antip]

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> In my experience nobody is attending any more, at least have not seen that done this season.

 

It's still happening here, but not very much. It's the folk that strongly prefer it out - who are a minority here - that are still asking for attendance when they are far away - the same as they always did. And the rest of us are entirely cool with that. But even these folk are very happy with the rule change for the extra options and fluency it offers with pace play on the greens.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > > I think once people get used to the new rule, pace of play should get better. I should imagine that the correct etiquette would be;

> > > > First player on the green putts with the flag in (I am assuming that at least someone is 30 feet out) - worst case he asks for the pin to be tended, in which case the player who is closest to the hole should do this. After the putt, player 1 then asks the next player to putt how they want the pin, and so on. It should be quite easy to confer using basic sign or spoken language as to what everyone wants doing - ie P2 can ask P3 if they want the pin in or out with a simple pulling gesture, so P2 knows what to do when he reaches his putt which we assume is going to be close(ish) to the pin.

> > >

> > > What you are suggesting is exactly what IMO should be avoided, i.e. fiddling with the pin pulling it out and putting back in for just to be pulled out again. What is so difficult in pulling the pin out as soon as someone is close enough to do it, just as it has been done for 200+ years?

> > >

> > > I cannot envisage how the PoP would get better with all this asking who wants to do what and that is certainly not the idea behind the change of the Rule.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I actually agree with you - I'd usually expect the last 'lag' putter to pull the pin after he's marked it, and for most people within about 20 feet to leave it out. What I was suggesting was how it should work in something like a serious tournament where **each player may have stronger feelings about whether it's in or out**.

>

> Yeah, that is how the Pandora's box was opened. It is not the intention of the Rule to help players in getting the ball into the hole but to speed up the game. As soon as people start thinking that keeping the pin in could help them in scoring we a s****ed.

 

Exactly. In my experience the "pin in" guys are generally indifferent to in/out and are leveraging the rule as intended, to speed up play. In our group of league regulars (~20) there were a few holdouts that wanted it out no matter how far away they were, but they've all come on board with leaving it in. Now it only comes out periodically when close up. I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out in a more serious tournament with guys I don't know.

[Augster]

I haven’t seen anyone attend the pin. I also haven’t seen anyone ask. If asked, I’m sure my answer would be “just put it.”

[North Butte]

> @Augster said:

> I haven’t seen anyone attend the pin. I also haven’t seen anyone ask. If asked, I’m sure my answer would be “just put it.”

 

There was one guy at my club who initially wanted it out, no matter what. He was absolutely convinced that the pin would knock his ball out of the hole. So for a few rounds he continued, as before, to ask someone to tend it if he was too far away to see the hole.

 

He quit with that pretty quickly. Don't know if someone complained or he just decided not to be That Guy. He still has it pulled if he's within 8-10 feet though.

 

I asked him about it early on, trying to figure out why he was so adamant. His answer reminded me of some comment I've seen on this forum. He said if the flag is out and he hit the putt too hard he "deserves" to miss the putt. But if he hits a good putt and the flagstick keeps it out that is "unfair". He didn't think the rules ought to allow everyone to "cheat" and avoid getting what they "deserve".

 

What's funny is, this guy is totally laid back about Life, the Universe and Everything. Doesn't get mad on the course, doesn't get caught up in political debates, just a live and let live guy. Except this silly flagstick thing with the "deserve" and "unfair" stuff. Weird thing to have a hangup about.

[Mr. Bean]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Augster said:

> > I haven’t seen anyone attend the pin. I also haven’t seen anyone ask. If asked, I’m sure my answer would be “just put it.”

>

> There was one guy at my club who initially wanted it out, no matter what. He was absolutely convinced that the pin would knock his ball out of the hole. So for a few rounds he continued, as before, to ask someone to tend it if he was too far away to see the hole.

>

> He quit with that pretty quickly. Don't know if someone complained or he just decided not to be That Guy. He still has it pulled if he's within 8-10 feet though.

>

 

I have an opposite example from my club. One guy insists having the pin in always for him. So he declares that he must be allowed to putt out before anyone removes the pin.

 

A pain in the Word not allowed...

[msg]

In our weekly group, we decided to leave it in all the time. Never bothered us and we got used to it.

It becomes a problem when I play with other people who I usually don't play with. Some want it in, some want it out.

[SnapHooker_307]

> @msg said:

> In our weekly group, we decided to leave it in all the time. Never bothered us and we got used to it.

> It becomes a problem when I play with other people who I usually don't play with. Some want it in, some want it out.

 

I've been playing with basically the same group all year, and we pretty much leave it in. I finally have a stroke play tournament this weekend, I am real curious to see how that will go with 2 days, different members in the group, and how the in/out deal will go.

[jmkenn0]

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @Augster said:

> > > I haven’t seen anyone attend the pin. I also haven’t seen anyone ask. If asked, I’m sure my answer would be “just put it.”

> >

> > There was one guy at my club who initially wanted it out, no matter what. He was absolutely convinced that the pin would knock his ball out of the hole. So for a few rounds he continued, as before, to ask someone to tend it if he was too far away to see the hole.

> >

> > He quit with that pretty quickly. Don't know if someone complained or he just decided not to be That Guy. He still has it pulled if he's within 8-10 feet though.

> >

>

> I have an opposite example from my club. One guy insists having the pin in always for him. So he declares that he must be allowed to putt out before anyone removes the pin.

>

> A pain in the Word not allowed...

 

Yeah I generally want it in unless its a pretty "casual" round, most of my fellow competitors want it out around 20'. In those cases, I just hold the flag, put it back in myself, then as I go pick the ball out of the hole (lol) or mark I take it out. Absolutely no time wasted.

[msg]

> @SnapHooker_605 said:

> > @msg said:

> > In our weekly group, we decided to leave it in all the time. Never bothered us and we got used to it.

> > It becomes a problem when I play with other people who I usually don't play with. Some want it in, some want it out.

>

> I've been playing with basically the same group all year, and we pretty much leave it in. I finally have a stroke play tournament this weekend, I am real curious to see how that will go with 2 days, different members in the group, and how the in/out deal will go.

 

So far, the players I played with outside my group, all wanted the pin out. It did not bother me but I really missed putting with the pin in. But I did not want to be that pain in the a** guy so I just went with what they wanted.

[North Butte]

> @msg said:

> > @SnapHooker_605 said:

> > > @msg said:

> > > In our weekly group, we decided to leave it in all the time. Never bothered us and we got used to it.

> > > It becomes a problem when I play with other people who I usually don't play with. Some want it in, some want it out.

> >

> > I've been playing with basically the same group all year, and we pretty much leave it in. I finally have a stroke play tournament this weekend, I am real curious to see how that will go with 2 days, different members in the group, and how the in/out deal will go.

>

> So far, the players I played with outside my group, all wanted the pin out. It did not bother me but I really missed putting with the pin in. But I did not want to be that pain in the **** guy so I just went with what they wanted.

 

I would do the same.

 

It's not so much that I *want* it in. I just don't see the need for pulling it but there's worse things you can get with a fellow player than asking for the flag to be pulled. Much worse!

[Mikey5e]

So if the flag is casting a shadow near or in your line nobody would want the flag pulled out for that situation?

[rogolf]

> @Mikey5e said:

> So if the flag is casting a shadow near or in your line nobody would want the flag pulled out for that situation?

 

Only if it was for an eagle and I wanted to make it.

[Mikey5e]

> @rogolf said:

> > @Mikey5e said:

> > So if the flag is casting a shadow near or in your line nobody would want the flag pulled out for that situation?

>

> Only if it was for an eagle and I wanted to make it.

 

Well, that's probably not likely to happen oh, I mean the eagle part.

[om18v]

I like it out. Unfortunately, most of the guys I play with want it in so I have to play with it in. In my feeble mind the hole looks bigger to me with the pin out. They say, "it's the new rule". Well, yes but the rule says you may leave it in, not must.

 

Seems someone else said this but I'm not sure how it speeds up game. Nearest guy/gal to pin pulls the pin. First to hole his/her putt holds pin in hand and replaces after last ball is pulled from hole. Not sure where time is lost doing this.

[HitEmTrue]

> @om18v said:

> I like it out. Unfortunately, most of the guys I play with want it in so I have to play with it in. In my feeble mind the hole looks bigger to me with the pin out. They say, "it's the new rule". Well, yes but the rule says you may leave it in, not must.

>

> Seems someone else said this but I'm not sure how it speeds up game. Nearest guy/gal to pin pulls the pin. First to hole his/her putt holds pin in hand and replaces after last ball is pulled from hole. Not sure where time is lost doing this.

 

Person who gets to the green first can go ahead and putt, without pulling the pin, even if others aren’t there to pull the pin yet.

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @HitEmTrue said:

> > @om18v said:

> > I like it out. Unfortunately, most of the guys I play with want it in so I have to play with it in. In my feeble mind the hole looks bigger to me with the pin out. They say, "it's the new rule". Well, yes but the rule says you may leave it in, not must.

> >

> > Seems someone else said this but I'm not sure how it speeds up game. Nearest guy/gal to pin pulls the pin. First to hole his/her putt holds pin in hand and replaces after last ball is pulled from hole. Not sure where time is lost doing this.

>

> Person who gets to the green first can go ahead and putt, without pulling the pin, even if others aren’t there to pull the pin yet.

>

 

This ^^^ it's a rather basic concept. It works great when you have regulars that play together, it works like a fine tuned machine. The pin in guys I play with don't really care if in or out. Where my guys may get a bit annoyed is the one odd guy that wants it pulled when everyone is scattered around the green and no one is close by to pull or tend or pull it for him. Breaks the rhythm of continuous putting.