Pin Placement

[Newby]

> @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

>

>

> Here’s a fun one from our course today. The line of play is from the right. That hole is cut 3 paces on over the bunker, on a 420 yard par 4. (460 from tips) The hole plays longer than advertised into the wind. The lobe of the green behind the bunker is only 10 yards deep.

>

> The thread has mostly discussed unputtable locations, this one is unapproachable.

>

 

**Committee Procedures - 5E Selecting Hole Locations**

**Some additional considerations include:**

Setting holes where there is enough putting green surface between the hole and the front and sides of the putting green to accommodate the approach on that particular hole. For example, placing the hole immediately behind a large bunker when a long approach is required by the majority of the field is usually not recommended.

 

[Lefty96]

> @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

> > @Lefty96 said:

> > > @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

> > >

> > >

> > > Here’s a fun one from our course today. The line of play is from the right. That hole is cut 3 paces on over the bunker, on a 420 yard par 4. (460 from tips) The hole plays longer than advertised into the wind. The lobe of the green behind the bunker is only 10 yards deep.

> > >

> > > The thread has mostly discussed unputtable locations, this one is unapproachable.

> > >

> >

> > While that does sound like a tough location, it’s not really unfair. You’re not meant to be able to go right at every pin and stick it. That looks relatively flat around the pin and putts to it from the center of the green would be more than fair. That’s just set up to be a tough par, not a birdie. That being said, I would never set a pin that close to a dead patch on the green.

> >

>

> I think I need to move the goal posts. This is a really tough spot and in every way a challenge. If the tour came to town I’d say it’s fine. But for them 450 yards is a 3w for position and a PW.

>

> Once on the green it’s not unfair, (except it does create a chipping from green scenario if you’re on the front... that’s not ideal).

>

> But since 75% of our players are playing it as a par-5 anyway, and still no one is coming within 25’, and more 6’s/7’s are being made than 4’s, the location might not be unfair, but too hard for general play.

 

How if curiosity, what’s the total course yardage? Is this a common length par 4 from those tees, or are most in the 350 and under range?

 

I still stand by my thoughts on that being a fair pin. A person should have less than 200 in and if they can hit a high mid-long iron, then they can go at the pin. If they cannot, then play to the back middle of the green and take your chances at a 40 foot putt.

 

When a course is set up I believe there should be a mix of easy and hard pins (hard meaning maybe tucked like this one not on a slope). If you set a hard one on a hard hole, then toss a couple of cupcake pins out on the easy holes. No one wants to play all hard pins, but most don’t want all easy pins either.

 

[nsxguy]

I don't understand the problem.

 

Per the USGA "One form of balanced daily treatment is to select six quite difficult, six which are moderately difficult and six which are relatively easy"

 

This is a "quite difficult" one.

[Deceptively Short]

I’ve never, ever heard of a golfer complaining after a round that ‘the pins were too easy today’.

For one very busy, fun competition we put all 18 pins in their easiest position in order to speed up play, and yet still a couple of people, who’d had bad rounds, moaned about pin positions.

[James the Hogan Fan]

> @Lefty96 said:

> > @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

> > > @Lefty96 said:

> > > > @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Here’s a fun one from our course today. The line of play is from the right. That hole is cut 3 paces on over the bunker, on a 420 yard par 4. (460 from tips) The hole plays longer than advertised into the wind. The lobe of the green behind the bunker is only 10 yards deep.

> > > >

> > > > The thread has mostly discussed unputtable locations, this one is unapproachable.

> > > >

> > >

> > > While that does sound like a tough location, it’s not really unfair. You’re not meant to be able to go right at every pin and stick it. That looks relatively flat around the pin and putts to it from the center of the green would be more than fair. That’s just set up to be a tough par, not a birdie. That being said, I would never set a pin that close to a dead patch on the green.

> > >

> >

> > I think I need to move the goal posts. This is a really tough spot and in every way a challenge. If the tour came to town I’d say it’s fine. But for them 450 yards is a 3w for position and a PW.

> >

> > Once on the green it’s not unfair, (except it does create a chipping from green scenario if you’re on the front... that’s not ideal).

> >

> > But since 75% of our players are playing it as a par-5 anyway, and still no one is coming within 25’, and more 6’s/7’s are being made than 4’s, the location might not be unfair, but too hard for general play.

>

> How if curiosity, what’s the total course yardage? Is this a common length par 4 from those tees, or are most in the 350 and under range?

>

> I still stand by my thoughts on that being a fair pin. A person should have less than 200 in and if they can hit a high mid-long iron, then they can go at the pin. If they cannot, then play to the back middle of the green and take your chances at a 40 foot putt.

>

> When a course is set up I believe there should be a mix of easy and hard pins (hard meaning maybe tucked like this one not on a slope). If you set a hard one on a hard hole, then toss a couple of cupcake pins out on the easy holes. No one wants to play all hard pins, but most don’t want all easy pins either.

>

 

Whites: 6200, Blues: 6690. There are 12 par 4’s, from the whites 7 are shorter than 350. The others are 431, 431*, 436, 410, 374. From blues, 7 below 400, the rest 405, 464, 441, 458*, 466, (and a 399).

*being the hole in question. There is frequently a 1-2 club wind against.

 

The green is 46 yards deep and 33 yards wide.

 

 

 

And bonus, it’s on a downslope!

 

 

But the fun part about it is it doesn’t really matter. The next day and the hole is in a new spot. For my part I had a horrible drive and laid up, from which I hit a wedge that got a lucky bounce from the rough by the bunker and rolled to 12’. A par opportunity, not much more to ask for. I would just prefer it a little farther back on the upper shelf. (But hey I work there, I can make it happen!)

[Lefty96]

> @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

> > @Lefty96 said:

> > > @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

> > > > @Lefty96 said:

> > > > > @"James the Hogan Fan" said:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Here’s a fun one from our course today. The line of play is from the right. That hole is cut 3 paces on over the bunker, on a 420 yard par 4. (460 from tips) The hole plays longer than advertised into the wind. The lobe of the green behind the bunker is only 10 yards deep.

> > > > >

> > > > > The thread has mostly discussed unputtable locations, this one is unapproachable.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > While that does sound like a tough location, it’s not really unfair. You’re not meant to be able to go right at every pin and stick it. That looks relatively flat around the pin and putts to it from the center of the green would be more than fair. That’s just set up to be a tough par, not a birdie. That being said, I would never set a pin that close to a dead patch on the green.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I think I need to move the goal posts. This is a really tough spot and in every way a challenge. If the tour came to town I’d say it’s fine. But for them 450 yards is a 3w for position and a PW.

> > >

> > > Once on the green it’s not unfair, (except it does create a chipping from green scenario if you’re on the front... that’s not ideal).

> > >

> > > But since 75% of our players are playing it as a par-5 anyway, and still no one is coming within 25’, and more 6’s/7’s are being made than 4’s, the location might not be unfair, but too hard for general play.

> >

> > How if curiosity, what’s the total course yardage? Is this a common length par 4 from those tees, or are most in the 350 and under range?

> >

> > I still stand by my thoughts on that being a fair pin. A person should have less than 200 in and if they can hit a high mid-long iron, then they can go at the pin. If they cannot, then play to the back middle of the green and take your chances at a 40 foot putt.

> >

> > When a course is set up I believe there should be a mix of easy and hard pins (hard meaning maybe tucked like this one not on a slope). If you set a hard one on a hard hole, then toss a couple of cupcake pins out on the easy holes. No one wants to play all hard pins, but most don’t want all easy pins either.

> >

>

> Whites: 6200, Blues: 6690. There are 12 par 4’s, from the whites 7 are shorter than 350. The others are 431, 431*, 436, 410, 374. From blues, 7 below 400, the rest 405, 464, 441, 458*, 466, (and a 399).

> *being the hole in question. There is frequently a 1-2 club wind against.

>

> The green is 46 yards deep and 33 yards wide.

>

>

>

>

>

> And bonus, it’s on a downslope!

>

>

> But the fun part about it is it doesn’t really matter. The next day and the hole is in a new spot. For my part I had a horrible drive and laid up, from which I hit a wedge that got a lucky bounce from the rough by the bunker and rolled to 12’. A par opportunity, not much more to ask for. I would just prefer it a little farther back on the upper shelf. (But hey I work there, I can make it happen!)

 

After seeing these pictures, that does look like a pretty brutal pin. Not an easy two putt from the middle of the green from what I can see. I’d still say this is a fair/acceptable pin to put on this hole every once in a while. But when this pin is in play there damn sure better be a good amount of easy pins to offset it.

 

I also frequently set pins at my course, and I always try to make the course play to the same difficulty as a whole. By this I mean if I were to put a hard pin like that on a hard hole, you better believe I’m going to put more easy pins than usual throughout the rest of the remaining 17 holes.

 

One thing I’m sure of, whoever set that hole location has to look back and smile to himself because he knew what he did. If I knew him I’d say “that’s a cool pin. Don’t put it there very often.”