The Open...No Bomb & Gouge …..

[Dave230]

Variety is the spice of life...But Portrush is a particularly great course because of the balance it achieves between reward and punishment. You have doubles and triples but also the opportunity of birdies and rounds in the 60s if you're good enough.

[15th Club]

> @NoodleSalad said:

> Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

 

 

Sorry, you really have it wrong. The reason that some earth (not a lot by U.S. standards) was moved for the construction of the new Holes 7 and 8 is because they had limited real estate (in between the Dunluce links and the Valley links) to manufacture a longish Par 4 and a championship caliber Par 5, to replace the old 17 and 18. A bit of false routing that, had Harry Colt anticipated it 100 years ago, might have been different. It was very nice linksland, but some earth did need to be moved. Again, no much by our standards. Unless you are talking about something like Sand Hills, where Tom Doak famously said of the Crenshaw-Coore routing, "they moved earth by the spoonful."

 

The internal out-of-bounds is an historical artifact from the time that the course did not own the land adjacent to #'s 1 and 18. It's been widely discussed, debated and there are good arguments on both sides. Suffice it to say, every single time that Rory McIlroy has played at Portrush, be it in a junior tournament, or the Open, or a friendly round with his dad, that OB has been there. It is a permanent feature of the club. Not invented by the R&A to combat distance; not preserved to control scoring. I'm not arguing for it or against it. Smart, informed students of architecture have taken both sides. I'm just saying that there are much better debates out there than, it "is just garbage."

 

[2bGood]

> @golfandfishing said:

> I also dislike the OB stakes, I’d like to see some of those balls in play and recovery attempts from awful lies/positions.

>

> > @NoodleSalad said:

> > Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

>

>

 

You may dislike it, but they are part of the heritage of the course. The course did not own the land between some of the holes, as result it created legitimate internal OB. Over time they did acquire the land but kept the OB the way it had always been.

[golfandfishing]

Yeah, I understand that I don’t have to like it but saying it is “heritage” is garbage. The course doesn’t even have the same routing as when it was originally built. Let’s not pretend the N Irish are so enamored with tradition that they are incapable of pulling out a few white stakes. They took bulldozers to the place to accommodate modern tournament golf.

 

> @2bGood said:

> > @golfandfishing said:

> > I also dislike the OB stakes, I’d like to see some of those balls in play and recovery attempts from awful lies/positions.

> >

> > > @NoodleSalad said:

> > > Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

> >

> >

>

> You may dislike it, but they are part of the heritage of the course. The course did not own the land between some of the holes, as result it created legitimate internal OB. Over time they did acquire the land but kept the OB the way it had always been.

 

 

[Dave230]

I think out of bounds is a more common feature on Irish courses, when I think of my own course I think of at least 5 places on the front 9 with OB stakes. I like it for professional tournaments, shots miles off target should be punished.

[JaNelson38]

> @Titleist99 said:

> No bomb & gouge here....the rough and the bunkers are true penalties.....should more course be setup like this?

 

47 players are under par and unless the wind blows this weekend many players will be double digits under par.

 

I like the course and the setup, but like most PGA Tour tracks, if you put it in the fairway you will score well. If the wind blew 20 mph every round and the weather were 20 degrees cooler like it is in Ireland, you'd see different scores in America too.

[15th Club]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @farmer said:

> > > @mahonie said:

> > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > @2bGood said:

> > > > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > > I'm probably in the minority, but I would not enjoy playing a course that beats me up every time I play. If RP had really severe greens, it would be nearly unplayable for just-a-guy type players.

> > > > >

> > > > > RP is seriously tough. I played it last fall and shot 93 (after ESC!!!) off a 4 handicap. The wind was howling and missing fairways or green was VERY costly to your score as it often resulted in a lost ball as we did not have spotters.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would love to play it again in more friendly weather and see if I could break 80, but on that day the course was way more challenge than I had game.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Now that is tough, which makes my point. I would need to play forward tees, but even from that length, I just can't see the fun.

> > >

> > >

> > > I don’t get this thing about forward tees. Typically in the UK you have 2 sets of tees for men (daily play and competition tees) and a set of ladies tees. Some courses may have junior tees. Unless you’re playing in a competition, you play off the daily play tees.

> > >

> > > The trick of good course design is to make the course playable without having to resort to several tees. Each hole should be a challenge but should also reward good shots...Royal Portrush seems to be typical of links golf in that it generally satisfies these criteria. The big variable is the weather and particularly the wind where the luck of the draw may play a massive part but that has always been a part of golf.

> >

> > Get old and you will understand about forward tees.

>

> They don't have forward tees in the UK. Their completely unique course designs don't have to resort to multiple tees. Instead, they just have tournament, daily play, ladies, and junior tees. These are completely different than Black/Blue/White/Red.

 

 

I was at Muirfield, The Old Course, Kingsbarns, North Berwick, Gullane, Dunbar and Crail last month. We had only one set of tees to play at all of them except Dunbar. The Old Course, Muirfield, Gullane and Dunbar had sets of ladies tees. Often on the same teeing ground, but as far forward as possible. At places like Muirfield and The Old Course and a qualifier location like Dunbar, there are sets of tournament tees located almost out of sight from the daily tees. Because of out-of-control equipment technology of course. And it would be a huge annoyance to have to use those tees, since they are usually a walk well away from the last green, as equipment technology has spoiled traditional routing.

[hell_is_chrome]

Excepting s e x.

 

> @getair23 said:

> **Everything in moderation**, including moderation.

 

 

[Lagavulin62]

I think the elevation changes and overall beauty of the rough is what interests me the most. That 16 is spectacular from the tee. Also as mentioned above, forced carry over endless water holes is part of what is killing American golf. Not seeing all the fakery of ponds and waterfalls is a biggie for me that makes the Open so fun to watch. I really am enjoying this course.

 

 

[Choclab]

Absolutely more pro tournaments should be like this. I hate bomb and gouge. I see on here all the time that B&G is what people want to see, but I don't buy that. I think it's just what people have gotten used to because PGA events have been set up like that for so long now.

[NoodleSalad]

> @"15th Club" said:

> > @NoodleSalad said:

> > Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

>

>

> Sorry, you really have it wrong. The reason that some earth (not a lot by U.S. standards) was moved for the construction of the new Holes 7 and 8 is because they had limited real estate (in between the Dunluce links and the Valley links) to manufacture a longish Par 4 and a championship caliber Par 5, to replace the old 17 and 18. A bit of false routing that, had Harry Colt anticipated it 100 years ago, might have been different. It was very nice linksland, but some earth did need to be moved. Again, no much by our standards. Unless you are talking about something like Sand Hills, where Tom Doak famously said of the Crenshaw-Coore routing, "they moved earth by the spoonful."

>

> The internal out-of-bounds is an historical artifact from the time that the course did not own the land adjacent to #'s 1 and 18. It's been widely discussed, debated and there are good arguments on both sides. Suffice it to say, every single time that Rory McIlroy has played at Portrush, be it in a junior tournament, or the Open, or a friendly round with his dad, that OB has been there. It is a permanent feature of the club. Not invented by the R&A to combat distance; not preserved to control scoring. I'm not arguing for it or against it. Smart, informed students of architecture have taken both sides. I'm just saying that there are much better debates out there than, it "is just garbage."

>

But it is garbage. There's no reason for it, other than "we've always done it this way." I assume the Portrush golf course owns that land now so they could easily pull up those white stakes and let players recover from a bad shot. Or, if they so desire, make it a lateral hazard. And McIlroy's bad shot was only about 6 or 7 paces off the fairway. It's also pretty ironic to pull the "tradition" card on a course that's been re-routed with gigantic earth movers creating artificial mounds and with cameras installed in the faces of bunkers.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Bunker cameras are traditional, and in the spirit of the way the game was meant to be played. They are both royal and ancient.

[DatSliceDoe]

Roll back the ball.

[PowderedToastMan]

I love links golf. You play the course wrong, you can shoot 79 (McIlroy Thursday). Play it right and you can shoot 65 (McIlroy Friday).

 

It’s a true test of golf that can properly reward or punish a golfer.

[imakaveli]

Yes, enough with crooked bombers

[15th Club]

To think that a broadcaster’s bunker camera has the slightest relevance to course architecture is both ignorant and modern.

[Vindog]

No bomb and gauge yet the leader board looks remarkably like almost every other leader board. Like, the best players are the best players and stuff.

[NoodleSalad]

> @"15th Club" said:

> To think that a broadcaster’s bunker camera has the slightest relevance to course architecture is both ignorant and modern.

 

Ignorant and "modern?" lol

[Titleist99]

> @Vindog said:

> No bomb and gauge yet the leader board looks remarkably like almost every other leader board. Like, the best players are the best players and stuff.

 

My point is that this is a more strategic golf course verses, hit it as far as you can and go find it. Wild off the tee will not work here...

 

[15th Club]

> @NoodleSalad said:

> > @"15th Club" said:

> > To think that a broadcaster’s bunker camera has the slightest relevance to course architecture is both ignorant and modern.

>

> Ignorant and "modern?" lol

 

> @NoodleSalad said:

> > @"15th Club" said:

> > To think that a broadcaster’s bunker camera has the slightest relevance to course architecture is both ignorant and modern.

>

> Ignorant and "modern?" lol

 

 

 

Snark and sarcasm, aimed at the snarky and sarcastic employment of "royal and ancient" by somebody else.

 

[Titleist99]

> @DatSliceDoe said:

> Roll back the ball.

 

That's an argument for another day..... By the way most people can't decide how far to roll it back....the Feathery Maybe!? … LOL!

[RainShadow]

Golf as it should be......

[gvogel]

> @DatSliceDoe said:

> Roll back the ball.

 

The distance report is coming out in the fall. I am really interested in the conclusions.

[gvogel]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @DatSliceDoe said:

> > Roll back the ball.

>

> That's an argument for another day..... By the way most people can't decide how far to roll it back....the Feathery Maybe!? … LOL!

 

Gutties would work for me.

[hell_is_chrome]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @DatSliceDoe said:

> > > Roll back the ball.

> >

> > That's an argument for another day..... By the way most people can't decide how far to roll it back....the Feathery Maybe!? … LOL!

>

> Gutties would work for me.

 

Lets just go back to before the Pro V1.

[Titleist99]

> @JaNelson38 said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > No bomb & gouge here....the rough and the bunkers are true penalties.....should more course be setup like this?

>

> 47 players are under par and unless the wind blows this weekend many players will be double digits under par.

>

> I like the course and the setup, but like most PGA Tour tracks, if you put it in the fairway you will score well. If the wind blew 20 mph every round and the weather were 20 degrees cooler like it is in Ireland, you'd see different scores in America too.

 

America is stuck on target golf and balmy temperatures. If the PGA Tour mixed it up a little more you would not have people calling for regulations for the equipment.

[Hawkeye77]

> @hell_is_chrome said:

> Excepting s e x.

>

> > @getair23 said:

> > **Everything in moderation**, including moderation.

>

>

Except during majors, no way I'm playing the front nine if there's a good leaderboard on the back nine.

[RickK]

Just heard them say on the telecast that the fairways run at about 8 on the stimpmeter and the greens are running about 10. 10...at any major in the US, this would be considered a travesty...way too slow. But look at the humps and bumps they play over there. 13-14 on the stimp with the wind and humps/bumps...would be unplayable. Love this type of golf however. Never played this course but played my fair share in the UK.

[Titleist99]

> @RickKimbrell said:

> Just heard them say on the telecast that the fairways run at about 8 on the stimpmeter and the greens are running about 10. 10...at any major in the US, this would be considered a travesty...way too slow. But look at the humps and bumps they play over there. 13-14 on the stimp with the wind and humps/bumps...would be unplayable. Love this type of golf however. Never played this course but played my fair share in the UK.

 

And that's why I pay absolutely no attention when comparing driving distances from the past and the present. I think in 1965 the fairways was running 5 on the stimp….LOL! Not much roll....

 

[kizell]

This is my first look at Royal Portrush. My observation has been that if the players experience 20+ mph winds given the length of course and the presence of raised greens, this would be very difficult. However in the absence of it the players can play high like normal.