The Open...No Bomb & Gouge …..

[Bye]

Not much bombing, but definitely some gouging.

 

 

[Titleist99]

> @hell_is_chrome said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @DatSliceDoe said:

> > > > Roll back the ball.

> > >

> > > That's an argument for another day..... By the way most people can't decide how far to roll it back....the Feathery Maybe!? … LOL!

> >

> > Gutties would work for me.

>

> Lets just go back to before the Pro V1.

 

Ahh, was this the first solid golf ball?

[farmer]

Pro V1 was not even close to the first solid golf ball. Nick Price used the Precept EV Extra Spin to great success, Norman used the Tour Edition with mixed results (unbelievable spin). They've been around for many decades.

[Darth Putter]

Without the wind, I thought there was quite a bit of bombing and gouging out there. At least on the 12 holes without internal OB where people hit irons off the tee.

Lowry hit only half of his fairways shooting 63.

[Titleist99]

> @farmer said:

> Pro V1 was not even close to the first solid golf ball. Nick Price used the Precept EV Extra Spin to great success, Norman used the Tour Edition with mixed results (unbelievable spin). They've been around for many decades.

 

You are correct...Spalding 1967. Wasn't that Jack's era.....LOL!

[mahonie]

> @farmer said:

> > @mahonie said:

> > > @farmer said:

> > > > @2bGood said:

> > > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > I'm probably in the minority, but I would not enjoy playing a course that beats me up every time I play. If RP had really severe greens, it would be nearly unplayable for just-a-guy type players.

> > > >

> > > > RP is seriously tough. I played it last fall and shot 93 (after ESC!!!) off a 4 handicap. The wind was howling and missing fairways or green was VERY costly to your score as it often resulted in a lost ball as we did not have spotters.

> > > >

> > > > I would love to play it again in more friendly weather and see if I could break 80, but on that day the course was way more challenge than I had game.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Now that is tough, which makes my point. I would need to play forward tees, but even from that length, I just can't see the fun.

> >

> >

> > I don’t get this thing about forward tees. Typically in the UK you have 2 sets of tees for men (daily play and competition tees) and a set of ladies tees. Some courses may have junior tees. Unless you’re playing in a competition, you play off the daily play tees.

> >

> > The trick of good course design is to make the course playable without having to resort to several tees. Each hole should be a challenge but should also reward good shots...Royal Portrush seems to be typical of links golf in that it generally satisfies these criteria. The big variable is the weather and particularly the wind where the luck of the draw may play a massive part but that has always been a part of golf.

>

> Get old and you will understand about forward tees.

Big 50 for me next year...I play with guys in their 70s who max out at 150 yards and teenagers who smash irons past my driver...we all play the same course off the same tees and it’s handicap that lets us all compete with each other. My point is, if a course is properly designed, you will be rewarded for good shots and punished for bad. Courses that punish you for not being long enough and require different sets of tees to compensate are poorly designed.

 

[JaNelson38]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @Vindog said:

> > No bomb and gauge yet the leader board looks remarkably like almost every other leader board. Like, the best players are the best players and stuff.

>

> My point is that this is a more strategic golf course verses, hit it as far as you can and go find it. Wild off the tee will not work here...

>

 

Wild off the tee doesnt work in most pro tournaments. This idea that every track is "bomb and gauge" is ridiculous, because it's not. If the win didnt blow tomorrow, Lowry likely breaks -20 and a whole host of guys are double digits under par. Just because it's done by running balls up on the green instead of with wedges is irrelevant...a birdie is a birdie.

 

People need to start being honest with regards to PGA Tour events, and just realize that these players are good. They're professionals for a reason.

[Titleist99]

> @JaNelson38 said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @Vindog said:

> > > No bomb and gauge yet the leader board looks remarkably like almost every other leader board. Like, the best players are the best players and stuff.

> >

> > My point is that this is a more strategic golf course verses, hit it as far as you can and go find it. Wild off the tee will not work here...

> >

>

> Wild off the tee doesnt work in most pro tournaments. This idea that every track is "bomb and gauge" is ridiculous, because it's not. If the win didnt blow tomorrow, Lowry likely breaks -20 and a whole host of guys are double digits under par. Just because it's done by running balls up on the green instead of with wedges is irrelevant...a birdie is a birdie.

>

> People need to start being honest with regards to PGA Tour events, and just realize that these players are good. They're professionals for a reason.

 

Maybe I should explain what bomb & gouge means to me: 7600 yards, wide fairways, minimal rough, hit it 330 yards, wedge it on the green from anywhere. Rinse and repeat. Of course these guy are good, no one implied other wise. Target golf n the U.S. is the norm...

just for clarification>most, not all courses..

[JaNelson38]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @JaNelson38 said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @Vindog said:

> > > > No bomb and gauge yet the leader board looks remarkably like almost every other leader board. Like, the best players are the best players and stuff.

> > >

> > > My point is that this is a more strategic golf course verses, hit it as far as you can and go find it. Wild off the tee will not work here...

> > >

> >

> > Wild off the tee doesnt work in most pro tournaments. This idea that every track is "bomb and gauge" is ridiculous, because it's not. If the win didnt blow tomorrow, Lowry likely breaks -20 and a whole host of guys are double digits under par. Just because it's done by running balls up on the green instead of with wedges is irrelevant...a birdie is a birdie.

> >

> > People need to start being honest with regards to PGA Tour events, and just realize that these players are good. They're professionals for a reason.

>

> Maybe I should explain what bomb & gouge means to me: 7600 yards, wide fairways, minimal rough, hit it 330 yards, wedge it on the green from anywhere. Rinse and repeat. Of course these guy are good, no one implied other wise. Target golf n the U.S. is the norm...

> just for clarification>most, not all courses..

 

If you truly think that's how most PGA Tour tracks are, you obviously have never seen one up close and in person during an actual event. Most golf courses used for PGA Tour events are actually made ridiculously harder than when they are open for public/member use. The fairways look wide on TV, but they're not. The greens are basically glass. The amount of skill that is needed to post the scores they do on these courses is absurd. It's just a testament to how fricken good they are.

 

And if you think everyone hits it 330 and "wedges it from anywhere"...that just proves how obtuse you are to the subject.

[Titleist99]

> @JaNelson38 said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @JaNelson38 said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @Vindog said:

> > > > > No bomb and gauge yet the leader board looks remarkably like almost every other leader board. Like, the best players are the best players and stuff.

> > > >

> > > > My point is that this is a more strategic golf course verses, hit it as far as you can and go find it. Wild off the tee will not work here...

> > > >

> > >

> > > Wild off the tee doesnt work in most pro tournaments. This idea that every track is "bomb and gauge" is ridiculous, because it's not. If the win didnt blow tomorrow, Lowry likely breaks -20 and a whole host of guys are double digits under par. Just because it's done by running balls up on the green instead of with wedges is irrelevant...a birdie is a birdie.

> > >

> > > People need to start being honest with regards to PGA Tour events, and just realize that these players are good. They're professionals for a reason.

> >

> > Maybe I should explain what bomb & gouge means to me: 7600 yards, wide fairways, minimal rough, hit it 330 yards, wedge it on the green from anywhere. Rinse and repeat. Of course these guy are good, no one implied other wise. Target golf n the U.S. is the norm...

> > just for clarification>most, not all courses..

>

> If you truly think that's how most PGA Tour tracks are, you obviously have never seen one up close and in person during an actual event. Most golf courses used for PGA Tour events are actually made ridiculously harder than when they are open for public/member use. The fairways look wide on TV, but they're not. The greens are basically glass. The amount of skill that is needed to post the scores they do on these courses is absurd. It's just a testament to how fricken good they are.

>

> And if you think everyone hits it 330 and "wedges it from anywhere"...that just proves how obtuse you are to the subject.

If you don't understand that I was generalizing then there's no help for you. Substitute 330 yards with (long drives).Everyone do not drive 330. No, every course they play isn't 7600 yards you can substitute (longer courses). The modern game is hit it as far as you can and wedge it on the green. Distance over accuracy.

 

[Shilgy]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @RickKimbrell said:

> > Just heard them say on the telecast that the fairways run at about 8 on the stimpmeter and the greens are running about 10. 10...at any major in the US, this would be considered a travesty...way too slow. But look at the humps and bumps they play over there. 13-14 on the stimp with the wind and humps/bumps...would be unplayable. Love this type of golf however. Never played this course but played my fair share in the UK.

>

> And that's why I pay absolutely no attention when comparing driving distances from the past and the present. I think in 1965 the fairways was running 5 on the stimp….LOL! Not much roll....

>

 

Except here at Royal Portrush the turf defaults to firm and fast. I would bet 68 years ago the fairways were nearly as fast.

 

 

[JAMH03]

@NoodleSalad said:

Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

They might say that because:

That's not what they did when RPGC was built the place 100 plus years ago. That's not how the other 16 holes were built. It's actually a land that links the land and the sea. Personally I don't know how I feel about the OB seems like it could be capricious IDK?

I would think most would fall short of suggesting the people who have conducted golf competitions for generations are clueless in spite of your strong feelings about internal OB.

That's akin to them telling some of us how to be ugly Murican's

[Darth Putter]

> @JaNelson38 said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @Vindog said:

> > > No bomb and gauge yet the leader board looks remarkably like almost every other leader board. Like, the best players are the best players and stuff.

> >

> > My point is that this is a more strategic golf course verses, hit it as far as you can and go find it. Wild off the tee will not work here...

> >

>

> Wild off the tee doesnt work in most pro tournaments. This idea that every track is "bomb and gauge" is ridiculous, because it's not. If the win didnt blow tomorrow, Lowry likely breaks -20 and a whole host of guys are double digits under par. Just because it's done by running balls up on the green instead of with wedges is irrelevant...a birdie is a birdie.

>

> People need to start being honest with regards to PGA Tour events, and just realize that these players are good. They're professionals for a reason.

 

Correct on all counts. It's a myth that all PGA Tour courses look like Trinity Forrest or Kapalua.

 

"Bomb and Gouge Golf" for lack of a better term is the most entertaining golf. People like seeing players hit it out of the trees and making birdie. It is the way of Arnie, Seve and Phil.

[farmer]

> @mahonie said:

> > @farmer said:

> > > @mahonie said:

> > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > @2bGood said:

> > > > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > > I'm probably in the minority, but I would not enjoy playing a course that beats me up every time I play. If RP had really severe greens, it would be nearly unplayable for just-a-guy type players.

> > > > >

> > > > > RP is seriously tough. I played it last fall and shot 93 (after ESC!!!) off a 4 handicap. The wind was howling and missing fairways or green was VERY costly to your score as it often resulted in a lost ball as we did not have spotters.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would love to play it again in more friendly weather and see if I could break 80, but on that day the course was way more challenge than I had game.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Now that is tough, which makes my point. I would need to play forward tees, but even from that length, I just can't see the fun.

> > >

> > >

> > > I don’t get this thing about forward tees. Typically in the UK you have 2 sets of tees for men (daily play and competition tees) and a set of ladies tees. Some courses may have junior tees. Unless you’re playing in a competition, you play off the daily play tees.

> > >

> > > The trick of good course design is to make the course playable without having to resort to several tees. Each hole should be a challenge but should also reward good shots...Royal Portrush seems to be typical of links golf in that it generally satisfies these criteria. The big variable is the weather and particularly the wind where the luck of the draw may play a massive part but that has always been a part of golf.

> >

> > Get old and you will understand about forward tees.

> Big 50 for me next year...I play with guys in their 70s who max out at 150 yards and teenagers who smash irons past my driver...we all play the same course off the same tees and it’s handicap that lets us all compete with each other. My point is, if a course is properly designed, you will be rewarded for good shots and punished for bad. Courses that punish you for not being long enough and require different sets of tees to compensate are poorly designed.

>

 

50 is not even in the conversation about old, unless you're 22. A course cannot be designed that plays the same for a guy who drives 200 vs a guy who drives it 250 without the use of different tees. If you don't believe me, play your approach club off the tee, then play your driving club for your next shot. To topic, there was a lot of gouging today.

[mahonie]

> @farmer said:

> > @mahonie said:

> > > @farmer said:

> > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > > @2bGood said:

> > > > > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > > > I'm probably in the minority, but I would not enjoy playing a course that beats me up every time I play. If RP had really severe greens, it would be nearly unplayable for just-a-guy type players.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RP is seriously tough. I played it last fall and shot 93 (after ESC!!!) off a 4 handicap. The wind was howling and missing fairways or green was VERY costly to your score as it often resulted in a lost ball as we did not have spotters.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I would love to play it again in more friendly weather and see if I could break 80, but on that day the course was way more challenge than I had game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Now that is tough, which makes my point. I would need to play forward tees, but even from that length, I just can't see the fun.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I don’t get this thing about forward tees. Typically in the UK you have 2 sets of tees for men (daily play and competition tees) and a set of ladies tees. Some courses may have junior tees. Unless you’re playing in a competition, you play off the daily play tees.

> > > >

> > > > The trick of good course design is to make the course playable without having to resort to several tees. Each hole should be a challenge but should also reward good shots...Royal Portrush seems to be typical of links golf in that it generally satisfies these criteria. The big variable is the weather and particularly the wind where the luck of the draw may play a massive part but that has always been a part of golf.

> > >

> > > Get old and you will understand about forward tees.

> > Big 50 for me next year...I play with guys in their 70s who max out at 150 yards and teenagers who smash irons past my driver...we all play the same course off the same tees and it’s handicap that lets us all compete with each other. My point is, if a course is properly designed, you will be rewarded for good shots and punished for bad. Courses that punish you for not being long enough and require different sets of tees to compensate are poorly designed.

> >

>

> 50 is not even in the conversation about old, unless you're 22. A course cannot be designed that plays the same for a guy who drives 200 vs a guy who drives it 250 without the use of different tees. If you don't believe me, play your approach club off the tee, then play your driving club for your next shot. To topic, there was a lot of gouging today.

If the guy driving it 250 is not straight, the guy hitting it 200 but straight wins every time on a well-designed course...just saying.

 

My home course is 6,100 off the tips, par 71...course record is 65. Yet the course is enjoyable for scratch players and 28 handicappers alike...all playing off the same tees. If you’re not straight your dead...if you’re straight and long you can score well.

 

The gouging today was with 5 and 6 irons not wedges...the guys majorly offline were totally beaten up...yet -15 was obtainable. A guy in contention took 21 more shots than the best round of the day...you gotta be straight!

 

[Titleist99]

> @"Darth Putter" said:

> Without the wind, I thought there was quite a bit of bombing and gouging out there. At least on the 12 holes without internal OB where people hit irons off the tee.

> Lowry hit only half of his fairways shooting 63.

 

Bomb & Gouge: Hit it as far as you can putting a premium on distance rather than accuracy then wedging it on the green.

Obviously we watched a differerent Open Championship....I did not see much of that. I saw a lot of green missing and strategy out there.

[Titleist99]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @RickKimbrell said:

> > > Just heard them say on the telecast that the fairways run at about 8 on the stimpmeter and the greens are running about 10. 10...at any major in the US, this would be considered a travesty...way too slow. But look at the humps and bumps they play over there. 13-14 on the stimp with the wind and humps/bumps...would be unplayable. Love this type of golf however. Never played this course but played my fair share in the UK.

> >

> > And that's why I pay absolutely no attention when comparing driving distances from the past and the present. I think in 1965 the fairways was running 5 on the stimp….LOL! Not much roll....

> >

>

> Except here at Royal Portrush the turf defaults to firm and fast. I would bet 68 years ago the fairways were nearly as fast.

>

>

 

Royal Portrush is a link course, I was referring to course in the states.

[Roadking2003]

> @Titleist99 said:

> No bomb & gouge here....the rough and the bunkers are true penalties.....should more course be setup like this?

 

And yet almost all of them tried to "Bomb" it to the 5th green........and then gouge it out of whatever lie they found.

[Roadking2003]

> @NoodleSalad said:

> > @mahonie said:

> > > @NoodleSalad said:

> > > Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

> > Sky also ran a segment during one of the PGA Tour events last year...can’t remember which one, they all seem to be one big tournament to me...where they looked at one hole where Justin Thomas hit drives on 2 consecutive days that finished 290 yards apart...one straight left, one straight right (no wind to speak of) and he still made par 4. The commentators called it miraculous...not really, he had great lies on both occasions even though he was so far offline and a massive green to aim at. That’s not golf. Golf is supposed to test all facets of the game...not just give rewards for length off the tee. The PGA Tour has sold its soul to the devil of distance and has become a complete borefest as a result.

> >

>

> A lot of silly generalizations packed in there, suggesting you either don't watch much U.S. golf or are just blinded by prejudice.

 

I'll vote for "prejudice".

[Roadking2003]

> @mahonie said:

> I don’t get this thing about forward tees. Typically in the UK you have 2 sets of tees for men (daily play and competition tees) and a set of ladies tees. Some courses may have junior tees. Unless you’re playing in a competition, you play off the daily play tees.

>

It's called making the course fun for all skill levels. In fact, the more tees the better. I wish each hole had ten tees ranging from 7500 yards to 2500 yards. Some courses in the USA have added 2500 yard tees so kids can play and have fun.

 

If you live to an old age and still want to play golf you will "get this thing about forward tees".

[Titleist99]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @NoodleSalad said:

> > > @mahonie said:

> > > > @NoodleSalad said:

> > > > Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

> > > Sky also ran a segment during one of the PGA Tour events last year...can’t remember which one, they all seem to be one big tournament to me...where they looked at one hole where Justin Thomas hit drives on 2 consecutive days that finished 290 yards apart...one straight left, one straight right (no wind to speak of) and he still made par 4. The commentators called it miraculous...not really, he had great lies on both occasions even though he was so far offline and a massive green to aim at. That’s not golf. Golf is supposed to test all facets of the game...not just give rewards for length off the tee. The PGA Tour has sold its soul to the devil of distance and has become a complete borefest as a result.

> > >

> >

> > A lot of silly generalizations packed in there, suggesting you either don't watch much U.S. golf or are just blinded by prejudice.

>

> I'll vote for "prejudice".

 

One man's opinion and you are entitled to yours Sir.....

[Bingo1976]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > No bomb & gouge here....the rough and the bunkers are true penalties.....should more course be setup like this?

>

> And yet almost all of them tried to "Bomb" it to the 5th green........and then gouge it out of whatever lie they found.

 

There were very limited lay up options - you can knock an iron down to leave an 100 yard pitch, but then you are still playing downwind with OB long - better to get it up to the green and try and make birdie with an up an down. There were conversely many holes where pros were hitting irons off the tee on long par 4s.

[new2g0lf]

I enjoyed watching all 4 days at RP. It was a test of every club in their bag, fighting the wind, rain, OB and very penal rough. I don't get to play links courses very often but I do like the challenge and creativity it encourages in shot making. We all know guys can bomb their driver 350 yards and hit a wedge into a green, it's no longer interesting to watch the same shots with the same clubs. This week you got to see professionals think their way through a course that was penal and forced them to make shots they'd never have to make on 90% of the pro courses they play on during the rest of the season.

[Titleist99]

> @new2g0lf said:

> I enjoyed watching all 4 days at RP. It was a test of every club in their bag, fighting the wind, rain, OB and very penal rough. I don't get to play links courses very often but I do like the challenge and creativity it encourages in shot making. We all know guys can bomb their driver 350 yards and hit a wedge into a green, it's no longer interesting to watch the same shots with the same clubs. This week you got to see professionals think their way through a course that was penal and forced them to make shots they'd never have to make on 90% of the pro courses they play on during the rest of the season.

 

Exactly!! I think that Shane Lowry had an advantage by having more knowledge of the course than anyone else....well played.

[NoFancyUsername.]

Having grown up on links courses, to play well you have to keep the flight down. Wind is the friend of links designers.

With that your bump and run game becomes very good and you learn to hit all your irons many ways.

Punching a 5 iron 120 into a strong breeze to keep it low is quite common.

 

[mahonie]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @NoodleSalad said:

> > > @mahonie said:

> > > > @NoodleSalad said:

> > > > Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

> > > Sky also ran a segment during one of the PGA Tour events last year...can’t remember which one, they all seem to be one big tournament to me...where they looked at one hole where Justin Thomas hit drives on 2 consecutive days that finished 290 yards apart...one straight left, one straight right (no wind to speak of) and he still made par 4. The commentators called it miraculous...not really, he had great lies on both occasions even though he was so far offline and a massive green to aim at. That’s not golf. Golf is supposed to test all facets of the game...not just give rewards for length off the tee. The PGA Tour has sold its soul to the devil of distance and has become a complete borefest as a result.

> > >

> >

> > A lot of silly generalizations packed in there, suggesting you either don't watch much U.S. golf or are just blinded by prejudice.

>

> I'll vote for "prejudice".

Totally correct...I’m very prejudiced against the PGA Tour ‘product’ that panders to the OEMs profit line. If the PGA Tour didn’t try to convince everybody that you need to hit it 300 yards to be a ‘playa’ you wouldn’t have new drivers coming out every 6 months promising another 5 yard gain or delofted irons so that you can now hit your 7-iron 190. I’ve watched plenty of PGA Tour golf but it is only half a game that’s being peddled...that’s how it comes across.

 

Everything is slanted towards the ‘distance is king’ story. Even the first cut of rough is counted as fairway for the purposes of Shots Gained. It looks like the bombers are long and straight, but in reality they are often 60 or 70 yards offline and the stats show that another fairway has been hit with a 315 yard drive. With the PGA Tour setting up the majority of the courses this way, it begins to look like they’re in the pocket of the likes of TaylorMade/Callaway. The worst part is that the majority of golfers literally buy the story they’re being sold hook, line and sinker and get the latest and greatest every few months. You tell me the last time you saw a wedge advert on TV...it doesn’t happen because that part of the story is not being sold. That part of the story requires a modicum of skill on the part of the player and that can’t be bought.

 

[Roadking2003]

> @mahonie said:

> Totally correct...I’m very prejudiced against the PGA Tour ‘product’ that panders to the OEMs profit line.

 

Just like every other tour all over the world.

 

 

[Titleist99]

> @mahonie said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @NoodleSalad said:

> > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > @NoodleSalad said:

> > > > > Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

> > > > Sky also ran a segment during one of the PGA Tour events last year...can’t remember which one, they all seem to be one big tournament to me...where they looked at one hole where Justin Thomas hit drives on 2 consecutive days that finished 290 yards apart...one straight left, one straight right (no wind to speak of) and he still made par 4. The commentators called it miraculous...not really, he had great lies on both occasions even though he was so far offline and a massive green to aim at. That’s not golf. Golf is supposed to test all facets of the game...not just give rewards for length off the tee. The PGA Tour has sold its soul to the devil of distance and has become a complete borefest as a result.

> > > >

> > >

> > > A lot of silly generalizations packed in there, suggesting you either don't watch much U.S. golf or are just blinded by prejudice.

> >

> > I'll vote for "prejudice".

> Totally correct...I’m very prejudiced against the PGA Tour ‘product’ that panders to the OEMs profit line. If the PGA Tour didn’t try to convince everybody that you need to hit it 300 yards to be a ‘playa’ you wouldn’t have new drivers coming out every 6 months promising another 5 yard gain or delofted irons so that you can now hit your 7-iron 190. I’ve watched plenty of PGA Tour golf but it is only half a game that’s being peddled...that’s how it comes across.

>

> Everything is slanted towards the ‘distance is king’ story. Even the first cut of rough is counted as fairway for the purposes of Shots Gained. It looks like the bombers are long and straight, but in reality they are often 60 or 70 yards offline and the stats show that another fairway has been hit with a 315 yard drive. With the PGA Tour setting up the majority of the courses this way, it begins to look like they’re in the pocket of the likes of TaylorMade/Callaway. The worst part is that the majority of golfers literally buy the story they’re being sold hook, line and sinker and get the latest and greatest every few months. You tell me the last time you saw a wedge advert on TV...it doesn’t happen because that part of the story is not being sold. That part of the story requires a modicum of skill on the part of the player and that can’t be bought.

>

Well said, two inch rough and the gallery has trampled that down...LOL! Set up so the Pros hit driver 15 times and three par three's using a wedge or nine iron.....Those guys are hitting wedges 160+...

[MilkyButterCuts]

> @tiderider said:

> the course doesn't beat you up if you don't hit it into the thick stuff ... yes, more courses for the pros need more penal rough/bunkering ... fairway bunkers are a joke on tour ...

 

 

[NoodleSalad]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @JaNelson38 said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @JaNelson38 said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @Vindog said:

> > > > > > No bomb and gauge yet the leader board looks remarkably like almost every other leader board. Like, the best players are the best players and stuff.

> > > > >

> > > > > My point is that this is a more strategic golf course verses, hit it as far as you can and go find it. Wild off the tee will not work here...

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Wild off the tee doesnt work in most pro tournaments. This idea that every track is "bomb and gauge" is ridiculous, because it's not. If the win didnt blow tomorrow, Lowry likely breaks -20 and a whole host of guys are double digits under par. Just because it's done by running balls up on the green instead of with wedges is irrelevant...a birdie is a birdie.

> > > >

> > > > People need to start being honest with regards to PGA Tour events, and just realize that these players are good. They're professionals for a reason.

> > >

> > > Maybe I should explain what bomb & gouge means to me: 7600 yards, wide fairways, minimal rough, hit it 330 yards, wedge it on the green from anywhere. Rinse and repeat. Of course these guy are good, no one implied other wise. Target golf n the U.S. is the norm...

> > > just for clarification>most, not all courses..

> >

> > If you truly think that's how most PGA Tour tracks are, you obviously have never seen one up close and in person during an actual event. Most golf courses used for PGA Tour events are actually made ridiculously harder than when they are open for public/member use. The fairways look wide on TV, but they're not. The greens are basically glass. The amount of skill that is needed to post the scores they do on these courses is absurd. It's just a testament to how fricken good they are.

> >

> > And if you think everyone hits it 330 and "wedges it from anywhere"...that just proves how obtuse you are to the subject.

> If you don't understand that I was generalizing then there's no help for you. Substitute 330 yards with (long drives).Everyone do not drive 330. No, every course they play isn't 7600 yards you can substitute (longer courses). The modern game is hit it as far as you can and wedge it on the green. Distance over accuracy.

>

I see. "Please discount 99% of what I wrote, including every number I used, but I still have a GREAT point."