The Open...No Bomb & Gouge …..

[irvnasty]

I think there's something to be said for variety. I do enjoy watching a links style course. I do enjoy Augusta with no real rough. I do enjoy the US Open with penal long grass. I do enjoy Harbour Town, where the players have to bunt it around very precisely. I do enjoy Kapalua, where everyone can bomb away with total impunity.

 

I think that a problem emerges where too many PGA Tour courses are too similar and set up too similarly. Firm and fast with non-penal rough and a bunch of water. Bunkers that are as often as not preferable to anything else.

 

I would favor a few more links-style layouts, a few more courses set up with US Open-style difficulty, and I would generally favor slower fairways, more penal rough, and slightly slower greens that can be smaller and more sloped. I also wouldn't mind more penal fairway bunkers and potentially even some courses with furrowed bunkers. It would be nice to see more "character" to different events. The Open always has character, it always stands out. That's one of the real joys of it. I'd like to see that replicated, even if the actual manner in which the character is created differs.

 

All that said, bomb and gouge is going nowhere, for reasons as much to do with game theory as with golf course architecture and layout. The benefits of winning far outweigh the consequences of playing poorly. It's eminently sensible to be overly aggressive. The goal isn't to play the best on average; it's to have the highest peaks on the weeks where you do play well.

[NoFancyUsername.]

> @"Darth Putter" said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @mahonie said:

> > > > @NoodleSalad said:

> > > > Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

> > > Sky also ran a segment during one of the PGA Tour events last year...can’t remember which one, they all seem to be one big tournament to me...where they looked at one hole where Justin Thomas hit drives on 2 consecutive days that finished 290 yards apart...one straight left, one straight right (no wind to speak of) and he still made par 4. The commentators called it miraculous...not really, he had great lies on both occasions even though he was so far offline and a massive green to aim at. That’s not golf. Golf is supposed to test all facets of the game...not just give rewards for length off the tee. The PGA Tour has sold its soul to the devil of distance and has become a complete borefest as a result.

> > >

> >

> > lol. I recall Spieth playing from the driving range one year at the British Open.....and won.

>

> Forty years ago Seve won hitting out of a parking lot. He hit one fairway in his final round at Lytham.

 

Yes, we're talking Seve.....Chuck Norris tried but couldn't do it.

[bigdane]

> @farmer said:

> > @2bGood said:

> > > @farmer said:

> > > I'm probably in the minority, but I would not enjoy playing a course that beats me up every time I play. If RP had really severe greens, it would be nearly unplayable for just-a-guy type players.

> >

> > RP is seriously tough. I played it last fall and shot 93 (after ESC!!!) off a 4 handicap. The wind was howling and missing fairways or green was VERY costly to your score as it often resulted in a lost ball as we did not have spotters.

> >

> > I would love to play it again in more friendly weather and see if I could break 80, but on that day the course was way more challenge than I had game.

> >

> >

>

> Now that is tough, which makes my point. I would need to play forward tees, but even from that length, I just can't see the fun.

 

Well - that's REAL golf for you, mate o:)

[bigdane]

> @NoodleSalad said:

> > @"15th Club" said:

> > > @NoodleSalad said:

> > > Why do people say this kind of golf is natural? Sky ran a segment on architect Martin Ebert, mentioning his renovations to the course. They showed a gigantic earth mover forming artificial mounds somewhere on one of his redesigned holes. Not natural, sorry! Then there's all the internal OB which is just garbage and not natural at all.

> >

> >

> > Sorry, you really have it wrong. The reason that some earth (not a lot by U.S. standards) was moved for the construction of the new Holes 7 and 8 is because they had limited real estate (in between the Dunluce links and the Valley links) to manufacture a longish Par 4 and a championship caliber Par 5, to replace the old 17 and 18. A bit of false routing that, had Harry Colt anticipated it 100 years ago, might have been different. It was very nice linksland, but some earth did need to be moved. Again, no much by our standards. Unless you are talking about something like Sand Hills, where Tom Doak famously said of the Crenshaw-Coore routing, "they moved earth by the spoonful."

> >

> > The internal out-of-bounds is an historical artifact from the time that the course did not own the land adjacent to #'s 1 and 18. It's been widely discussed, debated and there are good arguments on both sides. Suffice it to say, every single time that Rory McIlroy has played at Portrush, be it in a junior tournament, or the Open, or a friendly round with his dad, that OB has been there. It is a permanent feature of the club. Not invented by the R&A to combat distance; not preserved to control scoring. I'm not arguing for it or against it. Smart, informed students of architecture have taken both sides. I'm just saying that there are much better debates out there than, it "is just garbage."

> >

> But it is garbage. There's no reason for it, other than "we've always done it this way." I assume the Portrush golf course owns that land now so they could easily pull up those white stakes and let players recover from a bad shot. Or, if they so desire, make it a lateral hazard. And McIlroy's bad shot was only about 6 or 7 paces off the fairway. It's also pretty ironic to pull the "tradition" card on a course that's been re-routed with gigantic earth movers creating artificial mounds and with cameras installed in the faces of bunkers.

 

Garbage? Maybe to you. The argument "we've always done it this way" is a good one. Why "modernize"a traditional game like golf, or golf courses? Links courses are difficult, but the are really the original courses from way back when the featheries were standard.

[bigdane]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > L> @BiggErn said:

> > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @2bGood said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @farmer said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm probably in the minority, but I would not enjoy playing a course that beats me up every time I play. If RP had really severe greens, it would be nearly unplayable for just-a-guy type players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > RP is seriously tough. I played it last fall and shot 93 (after ESC!!!) off a 4 handicap. The wind was howling and missing fairways or green was VERY costly to your score as it often resulted in a lost ball as we did not have spotters.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would love to play it again in more friendly weather and see if I could break 80, but on that day the course was way more challenge than I had game.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now that is tough, which makes my point. I would need to play forward tees, but even from that length, I just can't see the fun.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t get this thing about forward tees. Typically in the UK you have 2 sets of tees for men (daily play and competition tees) and a set of ladies tees. Some courses may have junior tees. Unless you’re playing in a competition, you play off the daily play tees.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The trick of good course design is to make the course playable without having to resort to several tees. Each hole should be a challenge but should also reward good shots...Royal Portrush seems to be typical of links golf in that it generally satisfies these criteria. The big variable is the weather and particularly the wind where the luck of the draw may play a massive part but that has always been a part of golf.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Get old and you will understand about forward tees.

> > > > > > > > > > Big 50 for me next year...I play with guys in their 70s who max out at 150 yards and teenagers who smash irons past my driver...we all play the same course off the same tees and it’s handicap that lets us all compete with each other. My point is, if a course is properly designed, you will be rewarded for good shots and punished for bad. Courses that punish you for not being long enough and require different sets of tees to compensate are poorly designed.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 50 is not even in the conversation about old, unless you're 22. A course cannot be designed that plays the same for a guy who drives 200 vs a guy who drives it 250 without the use of different tees. If you don't believe me, play your approach club off the tee, then play your driving club for your next shot. To topic, there was a lot of gouging today.

> > > > > > > > If the guy driving it 250 is not straight, the guy hitting it 200 but straight wins every time on a well-designed course...just saying.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My home course is 6,100 off the tips, par 71...course record is 65. Yet the course is enjoyable for scratch players and 28 handicappers alike...all playing off the same tees. If you’re not straight your dead...if you’re straight and long you can score well.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Interesting. So, do you hit your 200 club or your 250 club straighter? 200 club, right?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So, I trust you must never hit a 250 club on that perfectly designed course, right?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The only reason to ever, ever, hit the less accurate club, that a 200 yard club would beat “every time” on that perfectly designed course would be to, what? Try to create a distance advantage or something? Nah, because 200 wins every time if the design is good. 250 is less accurate, so if the design is good, it’s worse. You must save a fortune on drivers and woods!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > The point is that y’all seem to be missing is that if the guy can hit 250 yards and straight, he will win every time. But how often can he pull it off on a tight course? That’s the risk/reward of a well-designed golf hole. If he can smash it anywhere and still have a shot at the green, where’s the challenge?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Being able to recover from a bad shot is also a valuable skill in golf, not everyone is good at it. Where’s the skill in chipping out sideways?

> > > >

> > > > That’s course management...Lowry did it yesterday. In the rough off the tee, he played out to the fairway and took his bogey. It is all about balancing the risk with the reward. Bomb and gouge courses take that away from the game to a lesser or greater extent as there is reduced risk and you can just smash away with the driver knowing you still have a shot to the green wherever you finish.

> > > >

> > > > It’s great for the ego to just smash driver on 14 holes...until you play a tight, strategic course and you’ve lost 14 balls and look like a muppet.

> > > >

> > > You're right, I loved Lowry's strategy for the final round. Now Fleetwood went insane at times....

> > >

> >

> > When you’re a handful of shots back I doubt playing safe was his mindset. Unless you’re saying he should’ve played smart to solidify 2nd versus taking risks to try and win.

>

> Tommy had plenty of opportunities, starting from the first hole in the forth round. He did not capitalize on his opportunities due to bad decisions and bad putting...

 

Only goes to prove that golf is a new game - every day!