2 Rules That Need To Be Enforced On Tour

[LICC]

> @Soloman1 said:

> He did not say he put his thumb to his chest. There is no rule against touching your clothing.

>

> Just stop it, for chrissake.

 

Just watch the video and listen to exactly what he says. He puts his thumb on his chest. Stop denying reality.

[Shilgy]

> @LICC said:

> "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

>

> That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

 

You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

[LICC]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @LICC said:

> > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> >

> > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

>

> You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

 

I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

[Shilgy]

> @LICC said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > >

> > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> >

> > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

>

> I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

 

Watching both of them at the Schwab Cup finals you could see both of them unanachored. No bias needed.

[Ignatius Reilly]

> @LICC said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > >

> > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> >

> > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

>

> I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

 

He said he has his thumb between the putter and his chest. He does not say it's touching his chest.

 

He's made a video about how he uses a long putter and includes references to the rules. Do you really think he'd do that if he was actually anchoring? Why? The R&A would be forced to act, but they haven't. Because..... he's not breaking the rule.

[LICC]

> @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > > >

> > > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> > >

> > > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

> >

> > I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

>

> He said he has his thumb between the putter and his chest. He does not say it's touching his chest.

>

> He's made a video about how he uses a long putter and includes references to the rules. Do you really think he'd do that if he was actually anchoring? Why? The R&A would be forced to act, but they haven't. Because..... he's not breaking the rule.

 

You really can’t be saying this and watching the video. He put the shaft on his chest then showed how the shaft is not on his chest because his thumb is between the shaft and his chest. And he visibly is touching his chest. The USGA and R&A don’t act because they don’t want to get sued by the equipment manufacturers. They would prefer to avoid the publicity of having to act on this.

[Brandons68]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @Brandons68 said:

> > I fully agree that this is an issue that needs to be worked on. Slow play is plaguing the board all the way across. College kids look up to tour players and try to mimic their meticulousness and speed. I play and pretty much all college golf routines are at the 6 hour mark for no reason.

>

> Interesting. That has not been my experience when playing with the college kids. Just played a state stroke play event in June where we played threesomes and all 3 days we played right around time par of 4:15. Greens were kept at a sane pace of around 11 which probably helped. Everyone used carts as well which certainly helped.

 

When I play my college tourneys with only college kids, and walking, it takes upwards of 6 hours. It may have something to do with amount of players on course, but some still take well over 40 seconds to hit shots.. and end up well off target because they simply are not tour players like they think they are.

[Vindog]

 

> @LICC said:

> > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > > > >

> > > > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> > > >

> > > > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > > > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > > > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

> > >

> > > I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

> >

> > He said he has his thumb between the putter and his chest. He does not say it's touching his chest.

> >

> > He's made a video about how he uses a long putter and includes references to the rules. Do you really think he'd do that if he was actually anchoring? Why? The R&A would be forced to act, but they haven't. Because..... he's not breaking the rule.

>

> You really can’t be saying this and watching the video. He put the shaft on his chest then showed how the shaft is not on his chest because his thumb is between the shaft and his chest. And he visibly is touching his chest. The USGA and R&A don’t act because they don’t want to get sued by the equipment manufacturers. They would prefer to avoid the publicity of having to act on this.

 

Why didn’t OEMs sue when the rule was made? Ping had just come out with an adjustable shaft putter which very quickly was worth nothing.

 

If they were going to sue, it would have already happened, IMO.

[GoGoErky]

> @LICC said:

> > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > > > >

> > > > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> > > >

> > > > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > > > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > > > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

> > >

> > > I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

> >

> > He said he has his thumb between the putter and his chest. He does not say it's touching his chest.

> >

> > He's made a video about how he uses a long putter and includes references to the rules. Do you really think he'd do that if he was actually anchoring? Why? The R&A would be forced to act, but they haven't. Because..... he's not breaking the rule.

>

> You really can’t be saying this and watching the video. He put the shaft on his chest then showed how the shaft is not on his chest because his thumb is between the shaft and his chest. And he visibly is touching his chest. The USGA and R&A don’t act because they don’t want to get sued by the equipment manufacturers. They would prefer to avoid the publicity of having to act on this.

 

I watched the video and did not see him anchor it. You want it to fit your narrative and it’s not there

[LICC]

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> > > > >

> > > > > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > > > > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > > > > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

> > > >

> > > > I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

> > >

> > > He said he has his thumb between the putter and his chest. He does not say it's touching his chest.

> > >

> > > He's made a video about how he uses a long putter and includes references to the rules. Do you really think he'd do that if he was actually anchoring? Why? The R&A would be forced to act, but they haven't. Because..... he's not breaking the rule.

> >

> > You really can’t be saying this and watching the video. He put the shaft on his chest then showed how the shaft is not on his chest because his thumb is between the shaft and his chest. And he visibly is touching his chest. The USGA and R&A don’t act because they don’t want to get sued by the equipment manufacturers. They would prefer to avoid the publicity of having to act on this.

>

> I watched the video and did not see him anchor it. You want it to fit your narrative and it’s not there

 

His thumb is pressed on his chest. Clearly. Call it whatever you want.

[Ignatius Reilly]

> @Vindog said:

>

> > @LICC said:

> > > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> > > > >

> > > > > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > > > > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > > > > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

> > > >

> > > > I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

> > >

> > > He said he has his thumb between the putter and his chest. He does not say it's touching his chest.

> > >

> > > He's made a video about how he uses a long putter and includes references to the rules. Do you really think he'd do that if he was actually anchoring? Why? The R&A would be forced to act, but they haven't. Because..... he's not breaking the rule.

> >

> > You really can’t be saying this and watching the video. He put the shaft on his chest then showed how the shaft is not on his chest because his thumb is between the shaft and his chest. And he visibly is touching his chest. The USGA and R&A don’t act because they don’t want to get sued by the equipment manufacturers. They would prefer to avoid the publicity of having to act on this.

>

> Why didn’t OEMs sue when the rule was made? Ping had just come out with an adjustable shaft putter which very quickly was worth nothing.

>

> If they were going to sue, it would have already happened, IMO.

 

^^^^ This.

 

OEMs have plenty of power in how things go, but they don't ultimately call the shots, the ruling bodies do. So we have the anchoring rule, the max driver size and COR, the square grooves rule...

 

But more than anything, they would have sued when this was first introduced, and they didn't and it has nothing (NOTHING) to do with Langer and his supposed anchoring. IF they actually had that power, all the other guys that were successful anchoring would be doing it now, not just some older former great.

[Vindog]

> @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > @Vindog said:

> >

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > > > > > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > > > > > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

> > > > >

> > > > > I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

> > > >

> > > > He said he has his thumb between the putter and his chest. He does not say it's touching his chest.

> > > >

> > > > He's made a video about how he uses a long putter and includes references to the rules. Do you really think he'd do that if he was actually anchoring? Why? The R&A would be forced to act, but they haven't. Because..... he's not breaking the rule.

> > >

> > > You really can’t be saying this and watching the video. He put the shaft on his chest then showed how the shaft is not on his chest because his thumb is between the shaft and his chest. And he visibly is touching his chest. The USGA and R&A don’t act because they don’t want to get sued by the equipment manufacturers. They would prefer to avoid the publicity of having to act on this.

> >

> > Why didn’t OEMs sue when the rule was made? Ping had just come out with an adjustable shaft putter which very quickly was worth nothing.

> >

> > If they were going to sue, it would have already happened, IMO.

>

> ^^^^ This.

>

> OEMs have plenty of power in how things go, but they don't ultimately call the shots, the ruling bodies do. So we have the anchoring rule, the max driver size and COR, the square grooves rule...

>

> But more than anything, they would have sued when this was first introduced, and they didn't and it has nothing (NOTHING) to do with Langer and his supposed anchoring. IF they actually had that power, all the other guys that were successful anchoring would be doing it now, not just some older former great.

 

Sometimes I forget that everything is a conspiracy around here.

 

[aabcuue]

> @LICC said:

> > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > @"15th Club" said:

> > > > > > I’ve always hated long putters and anchoring.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem is how to write the the rule. I never liked the current anti-anchoring rule and still don’t. I do like the idea of abandoning all attempts to ban the act of anchoring, and instead focusing on putter length. Are there golfers (for instance, with bad backs) who must have a putter of a certain length, even with a normal grip and stroke? How short can we make the limit? I saw a suggestion of 38”. What kind of anchoring can be done with a 38” putter? For a 5’4” LPGA player, that could be a belly putter, right?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I’m all in for a workable rule change. The problem is how to write the rule.

> > > > >

> > > > > It burns me when I see Bernhard Langer or Scott McCarron make a whole bunch of putts with the cheater stick. I would re-write the rule to define a stroke that is "levered", that is, one in which one hand is stationary and the other contributes the stroke. And I would ban "levering" strokes, just as croquet strokes, pushes and drags are also banned.

> > > >

> > > > Or they could redefine anchoring. Anchoring would be defined as a stroke during which the top end of the putter doesn't move. That would ban belly and the long stick. Because, even when the hand is held slightly off the chest, the left arm and forearm are anchored.

> > >

> > > Can you possibly imagine enforcing a rule like that? Different players hands move differently in the putting stroke. Those that are more wristy, like Arnie back in the day, barely move that top hand. Are they potentially in violation by your rule?

> > > That is what 15 is saying.... It's a nightmare to write a rule that works.

> > >

> > > PS the guys you mentioned are not cheating, nor is the putter they are using a "cheater stick".

> >

> > Agreed, it's not cheating if they're following the rules in place at the time.

> >

> > Anyways, you'd still have the exact same problem as some have right now: They think McCarron and Langher are anchoring, but they're actually leaving a very small gap between chest and club. Hard to see. So imagine trying to see if there's actually any movement at the top end of the putter. What if there's very little movement? I'll bet there's a little movement at the top by both McCarron and Langher even now.

> > Having said that, the whole anchoring thing is still much ado about nothing. I still think they made a mistake allowing mallet putters and it's been downhill ever since.

>

> Sure doesn't look like Langer is leaving a gap. He has an instructional video where he says he puts his thumb to his chest. It's a shame the USGA looks the other way on this.

 

Saw Adam Scott doing the same thing to Sat. You couldn't see the gap unless you were at the right angle. Bending over the golf hat blocks the front on view. Seen from the side you could see a gap, maybe 3 inches.

 

However after several mediocre putting rounds, on sunday scott switched to extended putter braced to the left forarm. It definitely worked as he shot the round of the day a -7. That vaulted up the leaderboad andpost the leader in the clubhouse until the last 2 groups finished.

 

[KRAMER1997]

I think the PGA Tour should have a shot clock, that's the only way to start picking up the pace of play. Each group should be keeping pace with the group in front of them. Each group should finish in about the same time as the group in front of them with a 15-minute buffer for lost balls and other circumstances (If group A plays 18 in 4 hrs, group B should be done in 4 hrs 15 mins). If this doesn't work, start penalizing every player in the group 1 shot for every 15 minutes they are late (If group A finishes in 3 and half hours hrs and group B finishes in 4 hrs, every player in group B gets a one-shot penalty). Essentially the first group of the day sets the pace, and every other group gets and every other group following gets an extra 15 minutes complete there round. I know this idea has some flaws, but it shouldn't take 5 hours to play 18 holes.

[nochct1]

They should start looking at the rules about building a stance.

[Vindog]

> @nochct1 said:

> They should start looking at the rules about building a stance.

 

This has not come up much and I’m legit interested in your opinion here.

 

What have you seen going on?

[Vindog]

> @KRAMER1997 said:

> I think the PGA Tour should have a shot clock, that's the only way to start picking up the pace of play. Each group should be keeping pace with the group in front of them. Each group should finish in about the same time as the group in front of them with a 15-minute buffer for lost balls and other circumstances (If group A plays 18 in 4 hrs, group B should be done in 4 hrs 15 mins). If this doesn't work, start penalizing every player in the group 1 shot for every 15 minutes they are late (If group A finishes in 3 and half hours hrs and group B finishes in 4 hrs, every player in group B gets a one-shot penalty). Essentially the first group of the day sets the pace, and every other group gets and every other group following gets an extra 15 minutes complete there round. I know this idea has some flaws, but it shouldn't take 5 hours to play 18 holes.

 

But the 5th group out would be allowed to play in 5 hrs adding 15 minutes 4 times, no?

[sui generis]

> @LICC said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > > > > > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > > > > > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

> > > > >

> > > > > I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

> > > >

> > > > He said he has his thumb between the putter and his chest. He does not say it's touching his chest.

> > > >

> > > > He's made a video about how he uses a long putter and includes references to the rules. Do you really think he'd do that if he was actually anchoring? Why? The R&A would be forced to act, but they haven't. Because..... he's not breaking the rule.

> > >

> > > You really can’t be saying this and watching the video. He put the shaft on his chest then showed how the shaft is not on his chest because his thumb is between the shaft and his chest. And he visibly is touching his chest. The USGA and R&A don’t act because they don’t want to get sued by the equipment manufacturers. They would prefer to avoid the publicity of having to act on this.

> >

> > I watched the video and did not see him anchor it. You want it to fit your narrative and it’s not there

>

> His thumb is pressed on his chest. Clearly. Call it whatever you want.

 

Viewed from your magic La-Z-Boy. Who knew it was endowed with powers unavailable to PGA Tour professional referees. Or, you're yet another know-nothing idiot.

[LICC]

> @aabcuue said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > @"15th Club" said:

> > > > > > > I’ve always hated long putters and anchoring.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The problem is how to write the the rule. I never liked the current anti-anchoring rule and still don’t. I do like the idea of abandoning all attempts to ban the act of anchoring, and instead focusing on putter length. Are there golfers (for instance, with bad backs) who must have a putter of a certain length, even with a normal grip and stroke? How short can we make the limit? I saw a suggestion of 38”. What kind of anchoring can be done with a 38” putter? For a 5’4” LPGA player, that could be a belly putter, right?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I’m all in for a workable rule change. The problem is how to write the rule.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It burns me when I see Bernhard Langer or Scott McCarron make a whole bunch of putts with the cheater stick. I would re-write the rule to define a stroke that is "levered", that is, one in which one hand is stationary and the other contributes the stroke. And I would ban "levering" strokes, just as croquet strokes, pushes and drags are also banned.

> > > > >

> > > > > Or they could redefine anchoring. Anchoring would be defined as a stroke during which the top end of the putter doesn't move. That would ban belly and the long stick. Because, even when the hand is held slightly off the chest, the left arm and forearm are anchored.

> > > >

> > > > Can you possibly imagine enforcing a rule like that? Different players hands move differently in the putting stroke. Those that are more wristy, like Arnie back in the day, barely move that top hand. Are they potentially in violation by your rule?

> > > > That is what 15 is saying.... It's a nightmare to write a rule that works.

> > > >

> > > > PS the guys you mentioned are not cheating, nor is the putter they are using a "cheater stick".

> > >

> > > Agreed, it's not cheating if they're following the rules in place at the time.

> > >

> > > Anyways, you'd still have the exact same problem as some have right now: They think McCarron and Langher are anchoring, but they're actually leaving a very small gap between chest and club. Hard to see. So imagine trying to see if there's actually any movement at the top end of the putter. What if there's very little movement? I'll bet there's a little movement at the top by both McCarron and Langher even now.

> > > Having said that, the whole anchoring thing is still much ado about nothing. I still think they made a mistake allowing mallet putters and it's been downhill ever since.

> >

> > Sure doesn't look like Langer is leaving a gap. He has an instructional video where he says he puts his thumb to his chest. It's a shame the USGA looks the other way on this.

>

> Saw Adam Scott doing the same thing to Sat. You couldn't see the gap unless you were at the right angle. Bending over the golf hat blocks the front on view. Seen from the side you could see a gap, maybe 3 inches.

>

> However after several mediocre putting rounds, on sunday scott switched to extended putter braced to the left forarm. It definitely worked as he shot the round of the day a -7. That vaulted up the leaderboad andpost the leader in the clubhouse until the last 2 groups finished.

>

 

If there was three inches of gap, you would see it from just about any angle.

[Shilgy]

> @Vindog said:

> > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > I think the PGA Tour should have a shot clock, that's the only way to start picking up the pace of play. Each group should be keeping pace with the group in front of them. Each group should finish in about the same time as the group in front of them with a 15-minute buffer for lost balls and other circumstances (If group A plays 18 in 4 hrs, group B should be done in 4 hrs 15 mins). If this doesn't work, start penalizing every player in the group 1 shot for every 15 minutes they are late (If group A finishes in 3 and half hours hrs and group B finishes in 4 hrs, every player in group B gets a one-shot penalty). Essentially the first group of the day sets the pace, and every other group gets and every other group following gets an extra 15 minutes complete there round. I know this idea has some flaws, but it shouldn't take 5 hours to play 18 holes.

>

> But the 5th group out would be allowed to play in 5 hrs adding 15 minutes 4 times, no?

 

That's how I read it. 9th group would be at 6 hours?

[KRAMER1997]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @Vindog said:

> > > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > I think the PGA Tour should have a shot clock, that's the only way to start picking up the pace of play. Each group should be keeping pace with the group in front of them. Each group should finish in about the same time as the group in front of them with a 15-minute buffer for lost balls and other circumstances (If group A plays 18 in 4 hrs, group B should be done in 4 hrs 15 mins). If this doesn't work, start penalizing every player in the group 1 shot for every 15 minutes they are late (If group A finishes in 3 and half hours hrs and group B finishes in 4 hrs, every player in group B gets a one-shot penalty). Essentially the first group of the day sets the pace, and every other group gets and every other group following gets an extra 15 minutes complete there round. I know this idea has some flaws, but it shouldn't take 5 hours to play 18 holes.

> >

> > But the 5th group out would be allowed to play in 5 hrs adding 15 minutes 4 times, no?

>

> That's how I read it. 9th group would be at 6 hours?

 

I didn't think about that when I wrote it out haha. I think a simpler way solution would be to have a time par that the first group sets, and each group needs to finish within 15 minutes of that (4 hrs for first group each group coming in needs to be done within 4 hrs 15 mins). If they take more time then that, for every 15 mins there should be a 1 shot penalty.

[sui generis]

> @LICC said:

> > @aabcuue said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > @"15th Club" said:

> > > > > > > > I’ve always hated long putters and anchoring.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The problem is how to write the the rule. I never liked the current anti-anchoring rule and still don’t. I do like the idea of abandoning all attempts to ban the act of anchoring, and instead focusing on putter length. Are there golfers (for instance, with bad backs) who must have a putter of a certain length, even with a normal grip and stroke? How short can we make the limit? I saw a suggestion of 38”. What kind of anchoring can be done with a 38” putter? For a 5’4” LPGA player, that could be a belly putter, right?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I’m all in for a workable rule change. The problem is how to write the rule.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It burns me when I see Bernhard Langer or Scott McCarron make a whole bunch of putts with the cheater stick. I would re-write the rule to define a stroke that is "levered", that is, one in which one hand is stationary and the other contributes the stroke. And I would ban "levering" strokes, just as croquet strokes, pushes and drags are also banned.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Or they could redefine anchoring. Anchoring would be defined as a stroke during which the top end of the putter doesn't move. That would ban belly and the long stick. Because, even when the hand is held slightly off the chest, the left arm and forearm are anchored.

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you possibly imagine enforcing a rule like that? Different players hands move differently in the putting stroke. Those that are more wristy, like Arnie back in the day, barely move that top hand. Are they potentially in violation by your rule?

> > > > > That is what 15 is saying.... It's a nightmare to write a rule that works.

> > > > >

> > > > > PS the guys you mentioned are not cheating, nor is the putter they are using a "cheater stick".

> > > >

> > > > Agreed, it's not cheating if they're following the rules in place at the time.

> > > >

> > > > Anyways, you'd still have the exact same problem as some have right now: They think McCarron and Langher are anchoring, but they're actually leaving a very small gap between chest and club. Hard to see. So imagine trying to see if there's actually any movement at the top end of the putter. What if there's very little movement? I'll bet there's a little movement at the top by both McCarron and Langher even now.

> > > > Having said that, the whole anchoring thing is still much ado about nothing. I still think they made a mistake allowing mallet putters and it's been downhill ever since.

> > >

> > > Sure doesn't look like Langer is leaving a gap. He has an instructional video where he says he puts his thumb to his chest. It's a shame the USGA looks the other way on this.

> >

> > Saw Adam Scott doing the same thing to Sat. You couldn't see the gap unless you were at the right angle. Bending over the golf hat blocks the front on view. Seen from the side you could see a gap, maybe 3 inches.

> >

> > However after several mediocre putting rounds, on sunday scott switched to extended putter braced to the left forarm. It definitely worked as he shot the round of the day a -7. That vaulted up the leaderboad andpost the leader in the clubhouse until the last 2 groups finished.

> >

>

> If there was three inches of gap, you would see it from just about any angle.

 

The verdict is in. It's not the magic La-Z-Boy that's the idiot.

[Shilgy]

> @KRAMER1997 said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @Vindog said:

> > > > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > > I think the PGA Tour should have a shot clock, that's the only way to start picking up the pace of play. Each group should be keeping pace with the group in front of them. Each group should finish in about the same time as the group in front of them with a 15-minute buffer for lost balls and other circumstances (If group A plays 18 in 4 hrs, group B should be done in 4 hrs 15 mins). If this doesn't work, start penalizing every player in the group 1 shot for every 15 minutes they are late (If group A finishes in 3 and half hours hrs and group B finishes in 4 hrs, every player in group B gets a one-shot penalty). Essentially the first group of the day sets the pace, and every other group gets and every other group following gets an extra 15 minutes complete there round. I know this idea has some flaws, but it shouldn't take 5 hours to play 18 holes.

> > >

> > > But the 5th group out would be allowed to play in 5 hrs adding 15 minutes 4 times, no?

> >

> > That's how I read it. 9th group would be at 6 hours?

>

> I didn't think about that when I wrote it out haha. I think a simpler way solution would be to have a time par that the first group sets, and each group needs to finish within 15 minutes of that (4 hrs for first group each group coming in needs to be done within 4 hrs 15 mins). If they take more time then that, for every 15 mins there should be a 1 shot penalty.

 

What if the group in front of you is slow and plays in 4:45? Do you play through?

[KRAMER1997]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @Vindog said:

> > > > > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > > > I think the PGA Tour should have a shot clock, that's the only way to start picking up the pace of play. Each group should be keeping pace with the group in front of them. Each group should finish in about the same time as the group in front of them with a 15-minute buffer for lost balls and other circumstances (If group A plays 18 in 4 hrs, group B should be done in 4 hrs 15 mins). If this doesn't work, start penalizing every player in the group 1 shot for every 15 minutes they are late (If group A finishes in 3 and half hours hrs and group B finishes in 4 hrs, every player in group B gets a one-shot penalty). Essentially the first group of the day sets the pace, and every other group gets and every other group following gets an extra 15 minutes complete there round. I know this idea has some flaws, but it shouldn't take 5 hours to play 18 holes.

> > > >

> > > > But the 5th group out would be allowed to play in 5 hrs adding 15 minutes 4 times, no?

> > >

> > > That's how I read it. 9th group would be at 6 hours?

> >

> > I didn't think about that when I wrote it out haha. I think a simpler way solution would be to have a time par that the first group sets, and each group needs to finish within 15 minutes of that (4 hrs for first group each group coming in needs to be done within 4 hrs 15 mins). If they take more time then that, for every 15 mins there should be a 1 shot penalty.

>

> What if the group in front of you is slow and plays in 4:45? Do you play through?

 

Haha why not. If Bruce is playing behind Bryson and is in hurry so he can go home and practice, Bryson's group should let him play through.

[LICC]

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > > > > > > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > > > > > > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

> > > > >

> > > > > He said he has his thumb between the putter and his chest. He does not say it's touching his chest.

> > > > >

> > > > > He's made a video about how he uses a long putter and includes references to the rules. Do you really think he'd do that if he was actually anchoring? Why? The R&A would be forced to act, but they haven't. Because..... he's not breaking the rule.

> > > >

> > > > You really can’t be saying this and watching the video. He put the shaft on his chest then showed how the shaft is not on his chest because his thumb is between the shaft and his chest. And he visibly is touching his chest. The USGA and R&A don’t act because they don’t want to get sued by the equipment manufacturers. They would prefer to avoid the publicity of having to act on this.

> > >

> > > I watched the video and did not see him anchor it. You want it to fit your narrative and it’s not there

> >

> > His thumb is pressed on his chest. Clearly. Call it whatever you want.

>

> Viewed from your magic La-Z-Boy. Who knew it was endowed with powers unavailable to PGA Tour professional referees. Or, you're yet another know-nothing idiot.

 

Do you think referees on the course are making this decision? Do you think you need to be a referee to see his thumb touching in the video? And you're calling someone else an idiot?

[YoungJedi]

Allow range finders and 1/2 the problem is solved

[Shilgy]

> @YoungJedi said:

> Allow range finders and 1/2 the problem is solved

 

Even if they used rangefinders they would still need to know distance to back/front/bunker carry/backstop yardage etc.

[gvogel]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @YoungJedi said:

> > Allow range finders and 1/2 the problem is solved

>

> Even if they used rangefinders they would still need to know distance to back/front/bunker carry/backstop yardage etc.

 

They could use the pin sheet to get those calculations.

[buckeyevalley]

I believe ALL rules need to be enforced on tour.

[sui generis]

> @LICC said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > "I'm not putting the shaft in my belly or on my chest [as he demonstrates by pressing the top of the putter shaft on his belly and then on his chest], I actually have the thumb between the chest and the putter [as he presses his thumb onto his chest]..."

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > That is exactly what he said. @Soloman1 Stop lying to yourself.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You are reading more into it than he said, as your little add on shows.

> > > > > > > > Yes, he says he has his thumb between the grip and his chest. He does not anchor said thumb to his chest. That part you made up. He has said many times that he anchors during the practice stroke to give him the feel he wants. He then moves that top hand away from his chest slightly.

> > > > > > > > Is what Langer and McCarron and a few others do what the USGA had in mind when the rule was written? Probably not. But they are within the rules.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I made nothing up. If you don't see with your own eyes what he does and hear what he says in the video, that is your bias.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > He said he has his thumb between the putter and his chest. He does not say it's touching his chest.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > He's made a video about how he uses a long putter and includes references to the rules. Do you really think he'd do that if he was actually anchoring? Why? The R&A would be forced to act, but they haven't. Because..... he's not breaking the rule.

> > > > >

> > > > > You really can’t be saying this and watching the video. He put the shaft on his chest then showed how the shaft is not on his chest because his thumb is between the shaft and his chest. And he visibly is touching his chest. The USGA and R&A don’t act because they don’t want to get sued by the equipment manufacturers. They would prefer to avoid the publicity of having to act on this.

> > > >

> > > > I watched the video and did not see him anchor it. You want it to fit your narrative and it’s not there

> > >

> > > His thumb is pressed on his chest. Clearly. Call it whatever you want.

> >

> > Viewed from your magic La-Z-Boy. Who knew it was endowed with powers unavailable to PGA Tour professional referees. Or, you're yet another know-nothing idiot.

>

> Do you think referees on the course are making this decision? Do you think you need to be a referee to see his thumb touching in the video? And you're calling someone else an idiot?

 

Perhaps the PGA Tour should use your approach? Employ a legion of couch potatoes whose primary qualification is that the have no qualifications to sit at home with a Bud Lite and a bag of Cheetos and call in things their imagination perceives. LOL, they might be looking out for your resume right now.