Are we entering Into the age of parity on the PGA Tour?

[LICC]

> @JD3 said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > @mosesgolf said:

> > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Imo today's generation would pretty much demolish previous ones...no matter which era of equipment they were required to use. Sure Hogan and Nicklaus and a few others would still shine, but for the most part the pro ranks would be dominated by today's players. Call it fitness, training, mechanics, whatever....theres just a lot more all round sound players and almost none getting by with unusual moves (like Floyd, furyk or trevino) or obvious power deficiencies (pavin, Calvin peete, funk)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Players hit it farther today because of modern equipment. Not enhanced skill level. Players today with unusual moves- DJ, Spieth, Rahm, Finau, DeChambeau ...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure we all know the equipment goes farther. But separating the players from the equipment the current pros you mentioned are perfect iron Byron's compared to the previous generations' outliers

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also Bubba Watson, Kuchar, now Matt Wolff. No Iron Byron’s in any of the swings I mentioned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kuchar is quite literally fading into oblivion, with no majors to his credit. The other 2 guys have tons of power.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m talking about unconventional swings.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kuchar was 3rd on the money list this year.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Unconventional + no power doesn't make it anymore. Kuchar has no majors, and the window is closing rapidly. Furyk, pavin, Trevino types thing of the past

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Shane Lowry would rank 75th in driving distance on the European Tour this year

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Patrick Reed ranks 71st on the PGA Tour

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Those are good. Corey pavin was last when he won us open. Hit 4 wood into 18th green where other guys had mid irons. Fred funk was last in driving distance when he won players. Not happening anymore

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > you should watch more golf, it happens all the time. lowest score and clutch putting matter now like it did 30-40 years ago.

> > > > > > > > > > Just off the top of my head do Chez Reavie, CT Pan, Ryan Moore, Webb Simpson, Francesco Molinari, Matt Kuchar, Zach Johnson, Kyle Stanley, Brian Harman, brandt snedeker, kevin kisner,kevin na count?

> > > > > > > > > > Because they've all won on tour recently some multiple times, some majors, some WGCs, a fedex cahmpionship and a players championship. Neither of these guys ever crack top 140 in driving distance on tour, some never 150. Same goes for the many guys ranked 80th to 140, plenty of winners and majors in there.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In recent years, there has been at least one major winner each year who isn't a long bomber. Lowry, Reed, Willet, Walker, Stenson, Spieth, Zach Johnson, Dufner, Webb Simpson ...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Johnson hasn't won a major in 4 years, and Webb was like 10+ yrs ago. The other guys are not short hitters. How anyone could think distance doesn't matter is beyond me

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2012 was 10+ years ago. Ok ...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Fine make it 7 if you want. Doesn't change the point: last 4 winners monsters off the tee: koepka (2x), DJ, Woodland. The only one not an elite player woodland, who does however have elite power

> > > > >

> > > > > Tiger won without elite power this year :)

> > > >

> > > > Let’s not forget those other monster hitters Lowry, Molinari, Spieth, willett, reed, Garcia, Kaymer, walker, Dufner,zach Johnson, simpson, schwartzel ... it’s like the last 7-8 years never happened for some people...

> > >

> > > I think greens in regulation is still a more important statistic than driving distance when it comes to winning majors. This year in the majors they won, Tiger, Koepka and Lowry were ranked #1 in Greens and Regulation. And Woodland was ranked #2. More greens= More Birdie opportunities. If you look at the players mentioned above, 2 guys stand out. Garcia/Tiger had insane ball-striking weeks at Augusta and putted half decent. If they had great putting weeks they would've won by 3-4 shots. I think Tiger was ranked 40 something in driving distance at Augusta this year. The formula to win majors is easy= hit down the fairway 290+, Lead in GIR/proximity to the pin, and putt average.

> >

> > bingo

>

> Bongo

> The closer they are to the green all things being equal, the greater the odds they'll hit it on and closer to the pin.

 

“all things being equal” is the key qualifier to that statement.

[JD3]

> @LICC said:

> > @JD3 said:

> > > @lowheel said:

> > > > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > @mosesgolf said:

> > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Imo today's generation would pretty much demolish previous ones...no matter which era of equipment they were required to use. Sure Hogan and Nicklaus and a few others would still shine, but for the most part the pro ranks would be dominated by today's players. Call it fitness, training, mechanics, whatever....theres just a lot more all round sound players and almost none getting by with unusual moves (like Floyd, furyk or trevino) or obvious power deficiencies (pavin, Calvin peete, funk)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Players hit it farther today because of modern equipment. Not enhanced skill level. Players today with unusual moves- DJ, Spieth, Rahm, Finau, DeChambeau ...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure we all know the equipment goes farther. But separating the players from the equipment the current pros you mentioned are perfect iron Byron's compared to the previous generations' outliers

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also Bubba Watson, Kuchar, now Matt Wolff. No Iron Byron’s in any of the swings I mentioned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kuchar is quite literally fading into oblivion, with no majors to his credit. The other 2 guys have tons of power.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m talking about unconventional swings.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kuchar was 3rd on the money list this year.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unconventional + no power doesn't make it anymore. Kuchar has no majors, and the window is closing rapidly. Furyk, pavin, Trevino types thing of the past

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Shane Lowry would rank 75th in driving distance on the European Tour this year

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Patrick Reed ranks 71st on the PGA Tour

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Those are good. Corey pavin was last when he won us open. Hit 4 wood into 18th green where other guys had mid irons. Fred funk was last in driving distance when he won players. Not happening anymore

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > you should watch more golf, it happens all the time. lowest score and clutch putting matter now like it did 30-40 years ago.

> > > > > > > > > > > Just off the top of my head do Chez Reavie, CT Pan, Ryan Moore, Webb Simpson, Francesco Molinari, Matt Kuchar, Zach Johnson, Kyle Stanley, Brian Harman, brandt snedeker, kevin kisner,kevin na count?

> > > > > > > > > > > Because they've all won on tour recently some multiple times, some majors, some WGCs, a fedex cahmpionship and a players championship. Neither of these guys ever crack top 140 in driving distance on tour, some never 150. Same goes for the many guys ranked 80th to 140, plenty of winners and majors in there.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In recent years, there has been at least one major winner each year who isn't a long bomber. Lowry, Reed, Willet, Walker, Stenson, Spieth, Zach Johnson, Dufner, Webb Simpson ...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Johnson hasn't won a major in 4 years, and Webb was like 10+ yrs ago. The other guys are not short hitters. How anyone could think distance doesn't matter is beyond me

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2012 was 10+ years ago. Ok ...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Fine make it 7 if you want. Doesn't change the point: last 4 winners monsters off the tee: koepka (2x), DJ, Woodland. The only one not an elite player woodland, who does however have elite power

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tiger won without elite power this year :)

> > > > >

> > > > > Let’s not forget those other monster hitters Lowry, Molinari, Spieth, willett, reed, Garcia, Kaymer, walker, Dufner,zach Johnson, simpson, schwartzel ... it’s like the last 7-8 years never happened for some people...

> > > >

> > > > I think greens in regulation is still a more important statistic than driving distance when it comes to winning majors. This year in the majors they won, Tiger, Koepka and Lowry were ranked #1 in Greens and Regulation. And Woodland was ranked #2. More greens= More Birdie opportunities. If you look at the players mentioned above, 2 guys stand out. Garcia/Tiger had insane ball-striking weeks at Augusta and putted half decent. If they had great putting weeks they would've won by 3-4 shots. I think Tiger was ranked 40 something in driving distance at Augusta this year. The formula to win majors is easy= hit down the fairway 290+, Lead in GIR/proximity to the pin, and putt average.

> > >

> > > bingo

> >

> > Bongo

> > The closer they are to the green all things being equal, the greater the odds they'll hit it on and closer to the pin.

>

> “all things being equal” is the key qualifier to that statement.

 

Years ago a poster might have sounded smart saying something like that, but now I'll take the word of tour pros:

 

"The driver is the most forgiving club in the bag now; it’s just swing as hard as you can and get it down there far." Adam Scott

[Titleist99]

I would take Tiger in his Prime with a 7-8 into the green vs some of todays players with a wedge. He was a master iron player, far superior to anyone on Tour....

[Soloman1]

Yes, the PGA Tour has reached parody.

[LICC]

> @JD3 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @JD3 said:

> > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > @KRAMER1997 said:

> > > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > > @mosesgolf said:

> > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @JD3 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Imo today's generation would pretty much demolish previous ones...no matter which era of equipment they were required to use. Sure Hogan and Nicklaus and a few others would still shine, but for the most part the pro ranks would be dominated by today's players. Call it fitness, training, mechanics, whatever....theres just a lot more all round sound players and almost none getting by with unusual moves (like Floyd, furyk or trevino) or obvious power deficiencies (pavin, Calvin peete, funk)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Players hit it farther today because of modern equipment. Not enhanced skill level. Players today with unusual moves- DJ, Spieth, Rahm, Finau, DeChambeau ...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure we all know the equipment goes farther. But separating the players from the equipment the current pros you mentioned are perfect iron Byron's compared to the previous generations' outliers

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also Bubba Watson, Kuchar, now Matt Wolff. No Iron Byron’s in any of the swings I mentioned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kuchar is quite literally fading into oblivion, with no majors to his credit. The other 2 guys have tons of power.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m talking about unconventional swings.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kuchar was 3rd on the money list this year.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unconventional + no power doesn't make it anymore. Kuchar has no majors, and the window is closing rapidly. Furyk, pavin, Trevino types thing of the past

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shane Lowry would rank 75th in driving distance on the European Tour this year

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patrick Reed ranks 71st on the PGA Tour

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are good. Corey pavin was last when he won us open. Hit 4 wood into 18th green where other guys had mid irons. Fred funk was last in driving distance when he won players. Not happening anymore

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > you should watch more golf, it happens all the time. lowest score and clutch putting matter now like it did 30-40 years ago.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Just off the top of my head do Chez Reavie, CT Pan, Ryan Moore, Webb Simpson, Francesco Molinari, Matt Kuchar, Zach Johnson, Kyle Stanley, Brian Harman, brandt snedeker, kevin kisner,kevin na count?

> > > > > > > > > > > > Because they've all won on tour recently some multiple times, some majors, some WGCs, a fedex cahmpionship and a players championship. Neither of these guys ever crack top 140 in driving distance on tour, some never 150. Same goes for the many guys ranked 80th to 140, plenty of winners and majors in there.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In recent years, there has been at least one major winner each year who isn't a long bomber. Lowry, Reed, Willet, Walker, Stenson, Spieth, Zach Johnson, Dufner, Webb Simpson ...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Johnson hasn't won a major in 4 years, and Webb was like 10+ yrs ago. The other guys are not short hitters. How anyone could think distance doesn't matter is beyond me

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2012 was 10+ years ago. Ok ...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Fine make it 7 if you want. Doesn't change the point: last 4 winners monsters off the tee: koepka (2x), DJ, Woodland. The only one not an elite player woodland, who does however have elite power

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tiger won without elite power this year :)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Let’s not forget those other monster hitters Lowry, Molinari, Spieth, willett, reed, Garcia, Kaymer, walker, Dufner,zach Johnson, simpson, schwartzel ... it’s like the last 7-8 years never happened for some people...

> > > > >

> > > > > I think greens in regulation is still a more important statistic than driving distance when it comes to winning majors. This year in the majors they won, Tiger, Koepka and Lowry were ranked #1 in Greens and Regulation. And Woodland was ranked #2. More greens= More Birdie opportunities. If you look at the players mentioned above, 2 guys stand out. Garcia/Tiger had insane ball-striking weeks at Augusta and putted half decent. If they had great putting weeks they would've won by 3-4 shots. I think Tiger was ranked 40 something in driving distance at Augusta this year. The formula to win majors is easy= hit down the fairway 290+, Lead in GIR/proximity to the pin, and putt average.

> > > >

> > > > bingo

> > >

> > > Bongo

> > > The closer they are to the green all things being equal, the greater the odds they'll hit it on and closer to the pin.

> >

> > “all things being equal” is the key qualifier to that statement.

>

> Years ago a poster might have sounded smart saying something like that, but now I'll take the word of tour pros:

>

> "The driver is the most forgiving club in the bag now; it’s just swing as hard as you can and get it down there far." Adam Scott

 

I named 12 major wins in the last 7 years by players middle of the pack or lower in driving distance.

[mosesgolf]

It sure was a treat to watch Tiger's mastery over the years. So many of us took it for granted the artistry that was Tiger Woods' talent. Even a diminished Tiger that sprayed it all over the map won 5 times in 2013. I think he can will 2 more majors but then again we've learned to never count Tiger out. Perhaps he will be the first to win a major at age 50.