Hips Move Independently and Lower Back Pain

[jbw749]

I'm coming off of some pretty severe lower back issues due to golf. Luckily with proper rehab and strengthening the pain is now manageable. What we found was I was turning my hips together as 1 unit. Just like if someone grabbed both sides of your waist by the belt loops and turned them around the spine which is exactly the feel or picture in my head I've always used while "firing the hips".

I turns out the lower back from rib cage to pelvis is only designed to go forward and back similar to how a finger bends. Notice what it feels like to twist your pointer finger, it's possible, but very little range of motion and wouldn't be good to do regularly.

So a change in understanding what joints actually can rotate was needed. Let's look at what can and can't rotate from the ground up.

 

Ankles: No

Knees: No

Right Hip Yes (on backswing)

Left Hip: Yes (on downswing)

Spine: No

Rib Cage/Shoulder girdle: Yes

 

So you have 3 places rotation can happen R hip, L hip and shoulder girdle. If you twist at any of the other joints you are potentially going to have issues with injury and consistency.

See link for example of how to turn on each hip independently. This has almost no effect on the lower back, because each hip is designed to rotate this way. You can see the spine just follows the pelvis with no twisting. You can "walk or step" right into the follow though when swinging too.

 

[Man_O_War]

Dude, some good points but you are seriously mistaken on the hips and the ankles and knees that helps the rotation. In actuality, the only rotational joint is the hip socket area but that's the top of the femur. The femur is half your knee, the lower leg sits on top of the ankle so how do you rotate the hips without ankle, knees and thighs? We are not talking about the pelvis. the Pelvis is part of the torso really and it is rotated at the hip socket..so basically you need to rotate ankles, knees to rotate the hips at the hip socket. Hips technically is the hip socket. Pelvis sits on top of that.

 

I like the observation of the hip as a unit being a mistake, hence why it's recommended to use the right hip to rotate on the backswing and left hip on downswing. So feels like you are playing golf on one leg at a time. useful advise. If you want to rotate well, use your lower body up to the hip sockets...so feet/ankles/knees/thigh movement rotating the hips. Other wise it's all muscling and using lower back etc. Sooner or later....pain.

[jbw749]

> @Man_O_War said:

> Dude, some good points but you are seriously mistaken on the hips and the ankles and knees that helps the rotation. In actuality, the only rotational joint is the hip socket area but that's the top of the femur. The femur is half your knee, the lower leg sits on top of the ankle so how do you rotate the hips without ankle, knees and thighs? We are not talking about the pelvis. the Pelvis is part of the torso really and it is rotated at the hip socket..so basically you need to rotate ankles, knees to rotate the hips at the hip socket. Hips technically is the hip socket. Pelvis sits on top of that.

>

> I like the observation of the hip as a unit being a mistake, hence why it's recommended to use the right hip to rotate on the backswing and left hip on downswing. So feels like you are playing golf on one leg at a time. useful advise. If you want to rotate well, use your lower body up to the hip sockets...so feet/ankles/knees/thigh movement rotating the hips. Other wise it's all muscling and using lower back etc. Sooner or later....pain.

 

Good points. Use the ground and work up to the hip socket not the spine. So if you want to torque it hard make sure the main pivot point is the hip socket. I just don't see much information about how they turn Independently even when you google it. This video explains it really well though.

[Tanner25]

jbw179, I'm a golfer with a bad back. Will be following this thread. With all due respect, it appears you are bailing on the mental side of the game. I enjoyed those posts. Do you still work on your mental game and incorporate the physical, too? Thx, Tanner

[Man_O_War]

 

one of the best videos.

[N0rs3man]

I was doing the exact same thing as op. To fix lower back pain caused by this I removed s posture and consciously engaged stomach muscles. This pulled my upper body around before my spine torqued. It reduced shoulder hip separation, and also seemed to increase swing speed because it synced all my motions up.

[KenRobie]

Just to be clear, starting with the ankles it's supposed to be mobile then stable

[PorscheFan]

To me it’s not just about mobile vs. stable, but also how much mobility you have in those supposedly mobile joints.

 

If you lack a decent amount of mobility in your hips or your thoracic spine yet are still trying to rotate overall as much as a pro golfer in the backswing then you’re potentially putting a ton of rotational pressure on stable joints (knees, lumbar spine).

[jbw749]

> @PorscheFan said:

> To me it’s not just about mobile vs. stable, but also how much mobility you have in those supposedly mobile joints.

>

> If you lack a decent amount of mobility in your hips or your thoracic spine yet are still trying to rotate overall as much as a pro golfer in the backswing then you’re potentially putting a ton of rotational pressure on stable joints (knees, lumbar spine).

 

Yes and that's exactly what the last video I posted explains. The main thing is too understand which joints rotate and which ones stabilize. Just that knowledge alone is very beneficial. I've been at this game a long time and am just now figuring it out.

[PorscheFan]

> @jbw749 said:

> > @PorscheFan said:

> > To me it’s not just about mobile vs. stable, but also how much mobility you have in those supposedly mobile joints.

> >

> > If you lack a decent amount of mobility in your hips or your thoracic spine yet are still trying to rotate overall as much as a pro golfer in the backswing then you’re potentially putting a ton of rotational pressure on stable joints (knees, lumbar spine).

>

> Yes and that's exactly what the last video I posted explains. The main thing is too understand which joints rotate and which ones stabilize. Just that knowledge alone is very beneficial. I've been at this game a long time and am just now figuring it out.

 

Yeah, it’s huge when that clicks. I was hammering my lumbar because I had poor internal hip rotation and poor thoracic mobility, but still tried to rotate into ‘preferred’ positions.

 

Immediate fix was to swing within my mobility range regardless of how short of silly my swing looked. Immediate pain reduction.

 

Long term was to improve mobility in both of those areas. Hip flexibility has improved, but thoracic was impossible for me to improve until I heard Lance Gill say that the top reasons for a lack of thoracic spine mobility had nothing to do with the thoracic itself and actually related to the rib cage and oblique fascia. Lightbulb moment for me, which I’m now working with a TPI certified trainer to address.

 

The short term fix was enough for me to immediately improve both my health and my golf.

[jbw749]

> @Tanner25 said:

> jbw179, I'm a golfer with a bad back. Will be following this thread. With all due respect, it appears you are bailing on the mental side of the game. I enjoyed those posts. Do you still work on your mental game and incorporate the physical, too? Thx, Tanner

 

Tanner,

I still work on the mental side of the game. The mental game is critical for making swing changes. The reason is if you're good at the mental game you are by definition good at managing expectations, especially under pressure. This applies for swing changes too. If you try a new move consciously and it works, it's important not to fall into the trap of thinking it will work every time you try it and that you finally solved the mystery of the golf swing with your new thought/move. Most people play this way and they will always fear it will stop working at some point and bypass actually learning why it worked. Then the minute it stops working they try something else.

Being content with if the new move works or doesn't rapidly increases the learning process and will be the best way for the subconscious to pick up on it. This understanding helps me make conscious moves subconsciously probably faster than most. I've been at the mental game for a long time.

I also know what types of thoughts I can and can't have during the swing, I can manage a transition move like how I change direction, but cannot have any thoughts during the backswing or at impact.

Anywho whatever I was doing wasn't good for my back. I have been pain free with new hip action and shot a mid 70s tournament round yesterday which I'm happy with considering how much I've changed my swing.

 

[jbw749]

> @PorscheFan said:

> > @jbw749 said:

> > > @PorscheFan said:

> > > To me it’s not just about mobile vs. stable, but also how much mobility you have in those supposedly mobile joints.

> > >

> > > If you lack a decent amount of mobility in your hips or your thoracic spine yet are still trying to rotate overall as much as a pro golfer in the backswing then you’re potentially putting a ton of rotational pressure on stable joints (knees, lumbar spine).

> >

> > Yes and that's exactly what the last video I posted explains. The main thing is too understand which joints rotate and which ones stabilize. Just that knowledge alone is very beneficial. I've been at this game a long time and am just now figuring it out.

>

> Yeah, it’s huge when that clicks. I was hammering my lumbar because I had poor internal hip rotation and poor thoracic mobility, but still tried to rotate into ‘preferred’ positions.

>

> Immediate fix was to swing within my mobility range regardless of how short of silly my swing looked. Immediate pain reduction.

>

> Long term was to improve mobility in both of those areas. Hip flexibility has improved, but thoracic was impossible for me to improve until I heard Lance Gill say that the top reasons for a lack of thoracic spine mobility had nothing to do with the thoracic itself and actually related to the rib cage and oblique fascia. Lightbulb moment for me, which I’m now working with a TPI certified trainer to address.

>

> The short term fix was enough for me to immediately improve both my health and my golf.

 

Another thing for people reading this to understand is the golf swing is not hard on your body, but bad golf swings are.

Sort of like how people say doing squats are hard on their knees. No squats are actually great for the knees, but bad technique is hard on the knees (another thing I learned). Which btw learning proper squat and lunge technique is great for hip mobility.

[PorscheFan]

> @jbw749 said:

> Another thing for people reading this to understand is the golf swing is not hard on your body, but bad golf swings are.

 

I agree with that, but it’s the definition of a ‘good’ swing that can be misleading and get us into trouble sometimes. A swing that looks ‘good’ in 2D and has the club in a desirable spot at the top of the backswing may not be a ‘good’ swing for some people that can’t get there without compensations.

 

[A.Princey]

I was trying a move earlier this year, where I fire my rear glute hard to start the downswing, but the quick snap of the hips as a result caused me 4-5 days worth of back pain, lower back pain. The injury was instantaneous and directly the result of my hips moving on plane with the ground while my spine was tilted at an angle to that.

[Tanner25]

> @jbw749 said:

> > @Tanner25 said:

> > jbw179, I'm a golfer with a bad back. Will be following this thread. With all due respect, it appears you are bailing on the mental side of the game. I enjoyed those posts. Do you still work on your mental game and incorporate the physical, too? Thx, Tanner

>

> Tanner,

> I still work on the mental side of the game. The mental game is critical for making swing changes. The reason is if you're good at the mental game you are by definition good at managing expectations, especially under pressure. This applies for swing changes too. If you try a new move consciously and it works, it's important not to fall into the trap of thinking it will work every time you try it and that you finally solved the mystery of the golf swing with your new thought/move. Most people play this way and they will always fear it will stop working at some point and bypass actually learning why it worked. Then the minute it stops working they try something else.

> Being content with if the new move works or doesn't rapidly increases the learning process and will be the best way for the subconscious to pick up on it. This understanding helps me make conscious moves subconsciously probably faster than most. I've been at the mental game for a long time.

> I also know what types of thoughts I can and can't have during the swing, I can manage a transition move like how I change direction, but cannot have any thoughts during the backswing or at impact.

> Anywho whatever I was doing wasn't good for my back. I have been pain free with new hip action and shot a mid 70s tournament round yesterday which I'm happy with considering how much I've changed my swing.

>

Thanks, jbw179. Good stuff as always! Taking care of the back is critical. Today, I was backing out of my driveway and the automatic breaking system put my car into a 100% stop. I'll assume a car was back there and it prevented an accident. But, it did do a number on my back and it made me think we're all one accident away from a bad injury. Anyway, feeling better tonight and feel like I dodged a bullet and it makes you appreciate your back and just getting out there. Glad you are playing pain free and scoring well. Tanner