Your most unpopular Golf opinions?

[clinkinfo]

5 hours ago, retch10 said:

To be a good coach/instructor, the knowledge is essential but that alone doesn't get it done.  They have to know HOW to impart that knowledge and also know that instruction is not one size fits all. Every person they instruct is different and what works with one will not work with the next. 

 

A golfer looking for instruction on there own also needs to keep this in mind.  If there is something I want to work on and go looking at say, YouTube, I have to go through maybe 9-10 different instructors/videos looking for what works for ME.  Sometimes I take a bit from this one but the rest doesn't work and than add it a bit from another. 

 

But yeah, teaching/coaching is a skill in and of itself. Being good at golf and knowing swing mechanics doesn't make you a good instructor. 

 

 

I would take it a step further and say you have to be aligned in your objectives as well.  For example, a coach who excels in accuracy isn’t a great choice to help someone seeking distance, and vice versa.  If you aren’t on the same page, the relationship won’t be productive.  Worse, it can actually end up counterproductive and frustrating.

[betarhoalphadelta]

37 minutes ago, clinkinfo said:

 

I would take it a step further and say you have to be aligned in your objectives as well.  For example, a coach who excels in accuracy isn’t a great choice to help someone seeking distance, and vice versa.  If you aren’t on the same page, the relationship won’t be productive.  Worse, it can actually end up counterproductive and frustrating.

 

Well, that seems to presume that seeking accuracy and seeking distance aren't related... I believe they are. 

 

For most golfers, their inaccuracy AND their lack of distance come from the same inefficient swing motions. They have to build in compensations for flaws that both make them inconsistent, and rob them of speed. Fixing those flaws will generally improve both accuracy and distance. 

 

For an unpopular opinion; nobody should even think about speed training until they're at LEAST low single digit, hitting 9+ greens per round. 

[dekez]

17 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Well, that seems to presume that seeking accuracy and seeking distance aren't related... I believe they are. 

 

For most golfers, their inaccuracy AND their lack of distance come from the same inefficient swing motions. They have to build in compensations for flaws that both make them inconsistent, and rob them of speed. Fixing those flaws will generally improve both accuracy and distance. 

 

For an unpopular opinion; nobody should even think about speed training until they're at LEAST low single digit, hitting 9+ greens per round. 

 

You got me thinking on this one. I tend to agree. I'd love to hear some opposite perspectives.

[Nard_S]

18 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

For an unpopular opinion; nobody should even think about speed training until they're at LEAST low single digit, hitting 9+ greens per round.

 

 

22 minutes ago, dekez said:

You got me thinking on this one. I tend to agree. I'd love to hear some opposite perspectives.

Yeah, i just don't agree with premise that play stats should dictate nature of skill development. Skill sets ultimately determine play stats. Play stats reveal skill set, they just inform, and they should not dictate bigger & broader goals that guide practice.

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, Nard_S said:

 

Yeah, i just don't agree with premise that play stats should dictate nature of skill development. Skill sets ultimately determine play stats. Play stats reveal skill set, they just inform, and they should not dictate bigger & broader goals that guide practice.

 

Bear in mind the idea of basing it on "play stats" is just a rough rule of thumb for how efficient your swing currently is and how good of a ballstriker you are. It just tends to be difficult to be a 10+ cap with an efficient swing, so they tend to correlate.

 

The overarching idea is that the less efficient your swing, the more you should be focusing on fixing that FIRST rather than trying to increase speed with an inefficient swing. Increasing speed with an inefficient swing is likely to just make those misses bigger, and may [depending on the cause of the inefficiency] make injury more likely.  

 

Of course, this is WRX, where we're all 4-caps who have + long games and would be there if we could putt. So nobody here has an inefficient swing...

 

...but this is WRX, so we all fly it 350 already, with a 1 iron, so I don't know why we need to do speed training anyway! 😉

 

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

The overarching idea is that the less efficient your swing, the more you should be focusing on fixing that FIRST rather than trying to increase speed with an inefficient swing

Increased ball speed is the 1st & biggest sign of greater efficiency.  What's suggested makes no sense to me.  

[dekez]

The idea is if you have a crappy swing it's not going to get any better by learning how to swing faster with it. Instead focus on getting it on plane and eliminate the major flaws - THEN go to speed training.  Getting rid of the major flaws will add speed by itself.  Makes sense to me.

[TNwanabe]

8 minutes ago, dekez said:

The idea is if you have a crappy swing it's not going to get any better by learning how to swing faster with it. Instead focus on getting it on plane and eliminate the major flaws - THEN go to speed training.  Getting rid of the major flaws will add speed by itself.  Makes sense to me.

You sir are CORRECT! (As I was told the exact same thing today at my lesson) I am currently following this method and hope to see better drives soon! 

[Nard_S]

Someone trying to yield an extra 15 yards with a driver is not "speed training". Or massaging patterns to get an extra 7 yards from a mid iron.  So maybe that's my disconnect. One should definitely work in partial and slow motion mode for improvement but there should always be efforts made to raise headroom of swing speed. Waiting till your double digit in GIR average for that is foolish & ridiculous. Steering your swing around a course is masochism, having the head room to throttle to controlled swing in play is the most realistic way for true improvement. Using "data" from play as only goal post of all you work on is moronic.

[retch10]

On 7/25/2025 at 5:06 PM, betarhoalphadelta said:

For an unpopular opinion; nobody should even think about speed training until they're at LEAST low single digit, hitting 9+ greens per round. 

I don't agree with this at all.  A huge reason a lot of 10-13 (or so) HDCP's are missing greens is because they're in the fairway off the tee but hitting into longer par 4's or long par 3's with a long iron instead of a shorter one.

 

Adding 15 yards off the tee will equate to added GIR.  Also, in theory, the same player could be taking one club less with increased speed. In essence, adding speed and gaining distance off the tee, taking less club as result AND being able to hit irons longer is probably equivalent to taking two clubs off.  More GIR, lower HDCP. 

 

I agree with the premise, though.  I just disagree with the measurement.  Its not HDCP or GIR..its quality of strike. If you can swing the club efficiently on the right path and make solid contact, you can benefit greatly form speed training.  

 

Its probably where I am at the moment.  On a shorter course 9 hole course I can score in the 30's on the regular.  Mid-single digit.  Thats where I am now playing the course I routinely play. Get me on a course with some yardage and I'm gonna struggle and that 6-7  is going to shoot up to a 12 pretty quickly.  But if i could add some speed/distance, I'm capable of having that same mid-single digit on that course as well.

[betarhoalphadelta]

On 7/26/2025 at 4:06 PM, Nard_S said:

Increased ball speed is the 1st & biggest sign of greater efficiency.  What's suggested makes no sense to me.  

 

I'm not saying that increased ball speed and hitting it further are not two of the the very important goals of working on your swing. Per your next post I'm also not saying that you should be "steering it around" the course. Speed and accuracy are NOT mutually exclusive--they usually both improve as your swing becomes more efficient and more consistent. 

 

I specifically said that you shouldn't be thinking about "speed training" until you've addressed the low-hanging fruit of having an inefficient swing. 

 

Again per your second post, for most mid-high caps, I believe dedicated swing technique work is the first and most effective way to increase that "headroom" in your swing, not buying speed sticks. 

 

2 hours ago, retch10 said:

I don't agree with this at all.  A huge reason a lot of 10-13 (or so) HDCP's are missing greens is because they're in the fairway off the tee but hitting into longer par 4's or long par 3's with a long iron instead of a shorter one.

 

Adding 15 yards off the tee will equate to added GIR.  Also, in theory, the same player could be taking one club less with increased speed. In essence, adding speed and gaining distance off the tee, taking less club as result AND being able to hit irons longer is probably equivalent to taking two clubs off.  More GIR, lower HDCP. 

 

I agree with the premise, though.  I just disagree with the measurement.  Its not HDCP or GIR..its quality of strike. If you can swing the club efficiently on the right path and make solid contact, you can benefit greatly form speed training.  

 

Its probably where I am at the moment.  On a shorter course 9 hole course I can score in the 30's on the regular.  Mid-single digit.  Thats where I am now playing the course I routinely play. Get me on a course with some yardage and I'm gonna struggle and that 6-7  is going to shoot up to a 12 pretty quickly.  But if i could add some speed/distance, I'm capable of having that same mid-single digit on that course as well.

 

If you're mid single digit in your ballstriking ability, but lack power, you *might* benefit from speed training. In your case the fact that you're actually scoring well on shorter courses, but likely not on longer courses where you might not be able to reach long par 3s, or reach long par 4s in two, and never sniff reaching a par 5 in 2, power may be worth focusing on. 

 

But per the bold, I don't think most 10-13 caps can swing the club efficiently on the right path and make solid contact, consistently. If they could, they wouldn't be 10-13 caps. Remember, a 10-13 cap is going to be averaging ~3 strokes higher than their index, which means their course scoring averages will be somewhere likely in the 12-16 over par range (depending on rating/slope). You're gonna tell me that guy is swinging the club efficiently on the right path and making solid contact, and just needs to work on speed training to get their index down?

[Nard_S]

17 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Again per your second post, for most mid-high caps, I believe dedicated swing technique work is the first and most effective way to increase that "headroom" in your swing, not buying speed sticks. 

Yeah I agree on your position, and my reasons to comment is based somewhat misinterpreting "speed training". Might be 10 to 15 percent of golfers that come anywhere near their potential on swing speed, imo, many more should pursue "speed"  to match results of physical ability. If they did that they invariably would end up modifying patterns. Reality is, that's not a one lesson, one month thing. Multi-month, even multi-year is closer to truth. So using course stats alone as a gate keeper for improvement is short sighted and while i pay attention to mine, they do not dictate what i work on. There is always space in regimen for me to just gun it over my head, as there's space for everything else. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

5 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Yeah I agree on your position, and my reasons to comment is based somewhat misinterpreting "speed training". Might be 10 to 15 percent of golfers that come anywhere near their potential on swing speed, imo, many more should pursue "speed"  to match results of physical ability. If they did that they invariably would end up modifying patterns. Reality is, that's not a one lesson, one month thing. Multi-month, even multi-year is closer to truth. So using course stats alone as a gate keeper for improvement is short sighted and while i pay attention to mine, they do not dictate what i work on. There is always space in regimen for me to just gun it over my head, as there's space for everything else. 

 

Exactly. I personally think there are three main components of speed:

 

1. Trying to make your swing as efficient as possible (technique work).
2. Trying to make your body as capable of producing power as possible (hit the gym and work on the right things).
3. Dedicated work to increase swing speed via speed training.   

 

I think #1 and #2 are precursors to #3. I think #3, if your swing is not particularly efficient and you're not taking care of fitness, is going down the wrong path. 

 

But #3 is easy, and fun, so people do it. 

[Nels55]

Gaining speed is the lowest hanging fruit.

 

[retch10]

42 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

You're gonna tell me that guy is swinging the club efficiently on the right path and making solid contact, and just needs to work on speed training to get their index down?

Of course not..In my case, I'd benefit even more by reducing strokes around the green.  That said, If i'm closer to the green off the tee, I'm also not going to be off the green as much.  It all works hand in hand. I need to improve my short game WHILE adding speed on full swings.  I don't think thats out of the question and I think those two things would lead me to the spot you said I'd need to be at to worry about swing speed. 

 

I agree though. If you don't understand swing path, clubface control and can't more often than not make consistent contact, swing speed is just going to allow you to hit it 15 yards further out of bounds.

 

 

[Nels55]

1 minute ago, retch10 said:

Of course not..In my case, I'd benefit even more by reducing strokes around the green.  That said, If i'm closer to the green off the tee, I'm also not going to be off the green as much.  It all works hand in hand. I need to improve my short game WHILE adding speed on full swings.  I don't think thats out of the question and I think those two things would lead me to the spot you said I'd need to be at to worry about swing speed. 

 

I agree though. If you don't understand swing path, clubface control and can't more often than not make consistent contact, swing speed is just going to allow you to hit it 15 yards further out of bounds.

 

 

If a person speed trains and gets faster there is a chance that swing mechanics are improved by speed training.  Works for some.

[retch10]

1 minute ago, Nels55 said:

If a person speed trains and gets faster there is a chance that swing mechanics are improved by speed training.  Works for some.

Yeah..I agree. I could probably gain some speed just by cleaning up a few things in my swing.  Just because I'm swinging it pretty good doesn't mean I'm swinging it as efficiently as I COULD.  And each little thing decreases speed. By focusing on those speed leaks, the swing mechanics improve.  They aren't separate entities.

[betarhoalphadelta]

6 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

If a person speed trains and gets faster there is a chance that swing mechanics are improved by speed training.  Works for some.

 

1 minute ago, retch10 said:

Yeah..I agree. I could probably gain some speed just by cleaning up a few things in my swing.  Just because I'm swinging it pretty good doesn't mean I'm swinging it as efficiently as I COULD.  And each little thing decreases speed. By focusing on those speed leaks, the swing mechanics improve.  They aren't separate entities.

 

I'd love to see some actual work done on this--i.e. how many players of what we'll call "mid-cap", say 10-15, who work solely on speed training and see demonstrable improvement to their mechanics. 

 

It would be difficult to actually put this into test due to subjectivity, but I'm saying something along the lines of having them measured on GEARS, then they do 6 weeks [or whatever necessary duration] speed training, and then get back on GEARS and compare. Do their mechanics actually improve, how much, and is it nearly universal across the sample size, or do some see no improvement or regress mechanically, while others improve? 

 

My gut instinct is that working on mechanics to improve your speed is a more likely path for bringing down your index than speed training in the hopes that it increases speed and ALSO has a positive effect on your mechanics...

[TiScape]

If ur swing isn’t that good and isn’t somewhat repeatable, what good’s gonna come out of getting faster? Ur OB drives are out by 30 yards instead of 20?! 😆 

[Warrior42111]

Overall they're both pieces to the puzzle, speed and a repeatable swing.

 

Strokes gained data has shown, and I'd say very well established that distance is a big deal. If one gained a 15 yds now they're hitting a GW instead of 8i into a green assuming 30 yd tptal gain on the whole.

 

Now yes if you're OB that's another story but I'll take that GW from the rough over an 8i from the fairway all day

[mshills]

13 minutes ago, TiScape said:

If ur swing isn’t that good and isn’t somewhat repeatable, what good’s gonna come out of getting faster? Ur OB drives are out by 30 yards instead of 20?! 😆 

LMAO no kidding. If your swing sucks and you just make it suck faster, your thin shot sizzles straight through the bush behind the green instead of lodging it it, the divot you take with the driver is now 2” deep, not a measly inch, and the miss into the lake is now where the water is 22’ deep, not 4’. 🤣
 

I also misinterpreted @betarhoalphadelta’s point. Didn’t realize you were referring to things like speed sticks and gym time dedicated to increasing speed. I thought about it like @Nard_S, that ball speed is a pretty decent indicator of how good the swing and the sequencing was that generated the speed, so of course you should work on speed training. But that seems to be not what @betarhoalphadelta meant. My bad. 

[PedronNiall]

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Gaining speed is the lowest hanging fruit.

 

 

The stat most directly correlated to scores is GIR or Strokes Gained Approach, however you wish to look at it, followed by SG Driving/tee distance. SG Approach will improve with increased power if and only if someone isn't longer and even more crooked. Imagine someone selling a system saying it's the #1 problem solver, who'd have thought?

 

Yes, you want to increase distance, but you want to do so once you've developed an efficient, repeatable swing to minimize variables that will be amplified at speed and, more important, to minimize injury risk as @betarhoalphadelta has already pointed out. Powerful legs are a key to overall muscle growth, but that doesn't mean throwing all the weight you can on a rack and squatting with garbage form is a smart or informed decision. Look up some of the guys who injured themselves off the Tour chasing speed; if they can do it with swings much closer to optimal, imagine what could happen to a normal golfer going all in with even worse form.