Lets take a closer look at distance off the Tee....

[LICC]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Again, I believe it's difficult to find examples:

> > > > > > > > (a) because almost all of them have golf-specific workout routines before making it on tour. It's basically a modern requirement for most; and

> > > > > > > > (b) anyone who makes it on tour being out of shape is very unlikely to suddenly get ripped.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Scott Stallings. In 2018 incorporated Cross Fit workouts and lost 50 pounds. And he went from an out-of-shape Tour player to a very fit player. Zero impact on his driving distance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yeah, he had quite the transformation. I do find his stats interesting since he _began_ fitness traning in Q2 2018:

> > > > > > Driving distance:

> > > > > > 2020: 313

> > > > > > 2019: 297

> > > > > > 2018: 299.7

> > > > > > 2017: 297.6

> > > > > > 2016: 295.5

> > > > > > 2015: 291.8

> > > > >

> > > > > Lol. Another one of those "inconvenient facts" getting in the way. Also, the boys are absolutely smashing it this year. Finau 335 avg. Do we have new ball technology? New clubs? Can't be, the manufacturers can't get any more distance, right? They're just selling fake distance was the mantra earlier in the thread.

> > > > >

> > > > > Could it be stronger, smarter, faster? Maybe course layouts and super speed fairways? Maybe, just maybe, a little bit of everything

> > > >

> > > > You do realize those numbers support the assertion that fitness did not impact distance? His 2019 distance didn't change from his prior fatso years.

> > >

> > > You do realize that you can't push a button and transform your body and swing? He started in, what, April 2018? Seems like it's starting to pay off for him.

> > > Then again, what do I know? I'm just another crackpot who believes being stronger can allow one to hit a stationary object harder.

> >

> > He started CrossFit in 2016. Anything else you plan to be completely wrong about?

>

> Interesting. I read on his twitter that he was 50 lbs lighter at the Valspar in 2019 than he was in 2018. https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/04/04/pga-tour-player-scott-stallings-weight-loss

> Maybe he started his transformation earlier, and didn't drop the weight until later? Or, maybe he's wrong. We should let him know if it's the latter.

> I did find this interesting from the April 2019 article: "He hit the gym, and so Scott Stallings’ weight-loss journey _began_. Almost a year later, Stallings is 50 lbs. lighter and in the best physical shape of his career."

 

There are multiple articles about him. There are articles from 2017 and 2018. He started Crossfit in 2016. in early 2018 he started a new diet and lost another 27 pounds from January to March from what he had previously lost. You do realize that you can't push a button and transform your body? ...

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @"15th Club" said:

> OMG thank you whoever posted that fabulous video of Portmarnock in magnificent condition.

>

> Shell's [Wonderful World of Golf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell%27s_Wonderful_World_of_Golf "Wonderful World of Golf") was one of the great features in the history of televised golf.

 

Totally agree. It's fun to go back and see how the game evolved from the 60s to the late 90s. Amazing, really. One of my favorites was Nicklaus v. Miller at Olympic from the mid-1990s. Miller was using Callaway shovel irons and an armpit putter. Talk about making Ben Hogan puke!

[LICC]

> @clevited said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Again, I believe it's difficult to find examples:

> > > > > > > (a) because almost all of them have golf-specific workout routines before making it on tour. It's basically a modern requirement for most; and

> > > > > > > (b) anyone who makes it on tour being out of shape is very unlikely to suddenly get ripped.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Scott Stallings. In 2018 incorporated Cross Fit workouts and lost 50 pounds. And he went from an out-of-shape Tour player to a very fit player. Zero impact on his driving distance.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeah, he had quite the transformation. I do find his stats interesting since he _began_ fitness traning in Q2 2018:

> > > > > Driving distance:

> > > > > 2020: 313

> > > > > 2019: 297

> > > > > 2018: 299.7

> > > > > 2017: 297.6

> > > > > 2016: 295.5

> > > > > 2015: 291.8

> > > >

> > > > Lol. Another one of those "inconvenient facts" getting in the way. Also, the boys are absolutely smashing it this year. Finau 335 avg. Do we have new ball technology? New clubs? Can't be, the manufacturers can't get any more distance, right? They're just selling fake distance was the mantra earlier in the thread.

> > > >

> > > > Could it be stronger, smarter, faster? Maybe course layouts and super speed fairways? Maybe, just maybe, a little bit of everything

> > >

> > > You do realize those numbers support the assertion that fitness did not impact distance? His 2019 distance didn't change from his prior fatso years.

> >

> > You do realize that you can't push a button and transform your body and swing? He started in, what, April 2018? Seems like it's starting to pay off for him.

> > Then again, what do I know? I'm just another crackpot who believes being stronger can allow one to hit a stationary object harder with a stick.

>

> I don't think he is interested in a civil discussion. Best to not feed him.

 

It must pain you to see a direct indisputable example that shows you are entirely wrong in your belief. Maybe coming off that high horse of yours will help you to be more open-minded.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @LICC said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Again, I believe it's difficult to find examples:

> > > > > > > > > (a) because almost all of them have golf-specific workout routines before making it on tour. It's basically a modern requirement for most; and

> > > > > > > > > (b) anyone who makes it on tour being out of shape is very unlikely to suddenly get ripped.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Scott Stallings. In 2018 incorporated Cross Fit workouts and lost 50 pounds. And he went from an out-of-shape Tour player to a very fit player. Zero impact on his driving distance.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yeah, he had quite the transformation. I do find his stats interesting since he _began_ fitness traning in Q2 2018:

> > > > > > > Driving distance:

> > > > > > > 2020: 313

> > > > > > > 2019: 297

> > > > > > > 2018: 299.7

> > > > > > > 2017: 297.6

> > > > > > > 2016: 295.5

> > > > > > > 2015: 291.8

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lol. Another one of those "inconvenient facts" getting in the way. Also, the boys are absolutely smashing it this year. Finau 335 avg. Do we have new ball technology? New clubs? Can't be, the manufacturers can't get any more distance, right? They're just selling fake distance was the mantra earlier in the thread.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Could it be stronger, smarter, faster? Maybe course layouts and super speed fairways? Maybe, just maybe, a little bit of everything

> > > > >

> > > > > You do realize those numbers support the assertion that fitness did not impact distance? His 2019 distance didn't change from his prior fatso years.

> > > >

> > > > You do realize that you can't push a button and transform your body and swing? He started in, what, April 2018? Seems like it's starting to pay off for him.

> > > > Then again, what do I know? I'm just another crackpot who believes being stronger can allow one to hit a stationary object harder.

> > >

> > > He started CrossFit in 2016. Anything else you plan to be completely wrong about?

> >

> > Interesting. I read on his twitter that he was 50 lbs lighter at the Valspar in 2019 than he was in 2018. https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/04/04/pga-tour-player-scott-stallings-weight-loss

> > Maybe he started his transformation earlier, and didn't drop the weight until later? Or, maybe he's wrong. We should let him know if it's the latter.

> > I did find this interesting from the April 2019 article: "He hit the gym, and so Scott Stallings’ weight-loss journey _began_. Almost a year later, Stallings is 50 lbs. lighter and in the best physical shape of his career."

>

> There are multiple articles about him. There are articles from 2017 and 2018. He started Crossfit in 2016. in early 2018 he started a new diet and lost another 27 pounds from January to March from what he had previously lost. You do realize that you can't push a button and transform your body? ...

 

Crazy. This joker tweeted that he was down 50lbs from the 2018 Valspar to the 2019 Valspar.

In any event, it sure seems to be paying off in terms of driving distance. Sixteen yards on average is something we'd all take!

[LICC]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Again, I believe it's difficult to find examples:

> > > > > > > > > > (a) because almost all of them have golf-specific workout routines before making it on tour. It's basically a modern requirement for most; and

> > > > > > > > > > (b) anyone who makes it on tour being out of shape is very unlikely to suddenly get ripped.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Scott Stallings. In 2018 incorporated Cross Fit workouts and lost 50 pounds. And he went from an out-of-shape Tour player to a very fit player. Zero impact on his driving distance.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yeah, he had quite the transformation. I do find his stats interesting since he _began_ fitness traning in Q2 2018:

> > > > > > > > Driving distance:

> > > > > > > > 2020: 313

> > > > > > > > 2019: 297

> > > > > > > > 2018: 299.7

> > > > > > > > 2017: 297.6

> > > > > > > > 2016: 295.5

> > > > > > > > 2015: 291.8

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lol. Another one of those "inconvenient facts" getting in the way. Also, the boys are absolutely smashing it this year. Finau 335 avg. Do we have new ball technology? New clubs? Can't be, the manufacturers can't get any more distance, right? They're just selling fake distance was the mantra earlier in the thread.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Could it be stronger, smarter, faster? Maybe course layouts and super speed fairways? Maybe, just maybe, a little bit of everything

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You do realize those numbers support the assertion that fitness did not impact distance? His 2019 distance didn't change from his prior fatso years.

> > > > >

> > > > > You do realize that you can't push a button and transform your body and swing? He started in, what, April 2018? Seems like it's starting to pay off for him.

> > > > > Then again, what do I know? I'm just another crackpot who believes being stronger can allow one to hit a stationary object harder.

> > > >

> > > > He started CrossFit in 2016. Anything else you plan to be completely wrong about?

> > >

> > > Interesting. I read on his twitter that he was 50 lbs lighter at the Valspar in 2019 than he was in 2018. https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/04/04/pga-tour-player-scott-stallings-weight-loss

> > > Maybe he started his transformation earlier, and didn't drop the weight until later? Or, maybe he's wrong. We should let him know if it's the latter.

> > > I did find this interesting from the April 2019 article: "He hit the gym, and so Scott Stallings’ weight-loss journey _began_. Almost a year later, Stallings is 50 lbs. lighter and in the best physical shape of his career."

> >

> > There are multiple articles about him. There are articles from 2017 and 2018. He started Crossfit in 2016. in early 2018 he started a new diet and lost another 27 pounds from January to March from what he had previously lost. You do realize that you can't push a button and transform your body? ...

>

> Crazy. This joker tweeted that he was down 50lbs from the 2018 Valspar to the 2019 Valspar.

> In any event, it sure seems to be paying off in terms of driving distance. Sixteen yards on average is something we'd all take!

 

Now you are purposely being ridiculous. I guess that is your reaction to having egg on your face ...

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @LICC said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Again, I believe it's difficult to find examples:

> > > > > > > > > > > (a) because almost all of them have golf-specific workout routines before making it on tour. It's basically a modern requirement for most; and

> > > > > > > > > > > (b) anyone who makes it on tour being out of shape is very unlikely to suddenly get ripped.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Scott Stallings. In 2018 incorporated Cross Fit workouts and lost 50 pounds. And he went from an out-of-shape Tour player to a very fit player. Zero impact on his driving distance.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yeah, he had quite the transformation. I do find his stats interesting since he _began_ fitness traning in Q2 2018:

> > > > > > > > > Driving distance:

> > > > > > > > > 2020: 313

> > > > > > > > > 2019: 297

> > > > > > > > > 2018: 299.7

> > > > > > > > > 2017: 297.6

> > > > > > > > > 2016: 295.5

> > > > > > > > > 2015: 291.8

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lol. Another one of those "inconvenient facts" getting in the way. Also, the boys are absolutely smashing it this year. Finau 335 avg. Do we have new ball technology? New clubs? Can't be, the manufacturers can't get any more distance, right? They're just selling fake distance was the mantra earlier in the thread.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Could it be stronger, smarter, faster? Maybe course layouts and super speed fairways? Maybe, just maybe, a little bit of everything

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You do realize those numbers support the assertion that fitness did not impact distance? His 2019 distance didn't change from his prior fatso years.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You do realize that you can't push a button and transform your body and swing? He started in, what, April 2018? Seems like it's starting to pay off for him.

> > > > > > Then again, what do I know? I'm just another crackpot who believes being stronger can allow one to hit a stationary object harder.

> > > > >

> > > > > He started CrossFit in 2016. Anything else you plan to be completely wrong about?

> > > >

> > > > Interesting. I read on his twitter that he was 50 lbs lighter at the Valspar in 2019 than he was in 2018. https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/04/04/pga-tour-player-scott-stallings-weight-loss

> > > > Maybe he started his transformation earlier, and didn't drop the weight until later? Or, maybe he's wrong. We should let him know if it's the latter.

> > > > I did find this interesting from the April 2019 article: "He hit the gym, and so Scott Stallings’ weight-loss journey _began_. Almost a year later, Stallings is 50 lbs. lighter and in the best physical shape of his career."

> > >

> > > There are multiple articles about him. There are articles from 2017 and 2018. He started Crossfit in 2016. in early 2018 he started a new diet and lost another 27 pounds from January to March from what he had previously lost. You do realize that you can't push a button and transform your body? ...

> >

> > Crazy. This joker tweeted that he was down 50lbs from the 2018 Valspar to the 2019 Valspar.

> > In any event, it sure seems to be paying off in terms of driving distance. Sixteen yards on average is something we'd all take!

>

> Now you are purposely being ridiculous. I guess that is your reaction to having egg on your face ...

 

Um.

 

(1) He tweeted a video from the 2018 Valspar and the 2019 Valspar, and said he was down 50 lbs., year over year.

(2) He's up 16 yards in distance this year.

 

Which one is untrue?

 

[clevited]

 

[bladehunter]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @mahonie said:ee

> > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > So, through this thread we have discovered that the state of Golf is actually in pretty good shape currently. More new golfers (2 million + per year) in the last few years (numbers that haven't been seen since Tiger came on the scene), golf sales are on the rise, tv viewership is up and handicaps are going down. Yes, the ball goes farther, equipment has improved and the end result appears to be more people coming to and enjoying the game of golf.

> > > > >

> > > > > What is so bad about that?

> > > >

> > > > Glad the game is booming on your side of the pond. The modern distance game, the product pushed by the PGA Tour with its worldwide presence, is gradually killing the game over here where there is no space to add distance to courses, the majority of which are between 50 and 100+ years old. The game is boring to watch for the majority of people, even fanatical golfers, and is becoming one-dimensional at the recreational level...so boring to play too. Modern equipment has ripped out the essence of the game...thing is most people under the age of 30 don’t really understand what has been lost. It really is only half the game it used to be.

> > > >

> > > > I can see a time when there could well be bifurcation at some point in the future where there will be a game called ‘American Golf’ and a game called ‘golf.’ American Golf will only be played on courses over 7500 yards long with fairways at least 50 yards wide. Par 3s must not measure anything less than 200 yards and the bag will consist of a Driver, a mid-iron and 11 wedges...and a mallet putter with a head that is at least 6” long. All scoring will be statistic based and anyone trying to ‘shot make’ will be banned. Minimum swing speeds will be introduced and anyone not able to average 320 yards off the tee will be suspended and banished to the ‘Rest of the World’ Tour.

> > > >

> > > > To be allowed access to the course as a spectator at the televised events, you will need to demonstrate the ability to shout ‘Mashed potato’ or some other inane phrase at 110 decibels, preferably when under the influence of a couple of pints of weak beer.

> > > >

> > > > Traditional golf values of etiquette, decorum and sportsmanship will be actively frowned upon. Loud music, copious amounts of alcohol and leery behaviour on the course are a given.

> > > >

> > > > Contractually, professional players will be required to attend post-round interviews but will only be required to answer with words of one syllable...personality is not a requirement.

> > > >

> > > > The game will be allowed to flourish with no restrictions and the Green Jacket will be replaced with the Green Hoodie.

> > >

> > > I know thousands of golfers and none remotely think like you, thank goodness....while the game is not perfect (i.e, rules) it is still the best game in the world.

> >

> > I’m sorry. “ thousands “ ? As in one thousand or 20 thousand ? That’s a lot of golfers. Do you play with a different foursome twice a day ?

>

> Just for the record Jethro, I've worked at the same golf course for 13years …..any more questions....

 

Lol. Having worked at a course myself from 1995-1999 I’m not at all sure how you “ know “ thousands. Maybe we need to define “ know “.

[DFS PFD]

Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

[Titleist99]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @mahonie said:ee

> > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > So, through this thread we have discovered that the state of Golf is actually in pretty good shape currently. More new golfers (2 million + per year) in the last few years (numbers that haven't been seen since Tiger came on the scene), golf sales are on the rise, tv viewership is up and handicaps are going down. Yes, the ball goes farther, equipment has improved and the end result appears to be more people coming to and enjoying the game of golf.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What is so bad about that?

> > > > >

> > > > > Glad the game is booming on your side of the pond. The modern distance game, the product pushed by the PGA Tour with its worldwide presence, is gradually killing the game over here where there is no space to add distance to courses, the majority of which are between 50 and 100+ years old. The game is boring to watch for the majority of people, even fanatical golfers, and is becoming one-dimensional at the recreational level...so boring to play too. Modern equipment has ripped out the essence of the game...thing is most people under the age of 30 don’t really understand what has been lost. It really is only half the game it used to be.

> > > > >

> > > > > I can see a time when there could well be bifurcation at some point in the future where there will be a game called ‘American Golf’ and a game called ‘golf.’ American Golf will only be played on courses over 7500 yards long with fairways at least 50 yards wide. Par 3s must not measure anything less than 200 yards and the bag will consist of a Driver, a mid-iron and 11 wedges...and a mallet putter with a head that is at least 6” long. All scoring will be statistic based and anyone trying to ‘shot make’ will be banned. Minimum swing speeds will be introduced and anyone not able to average 320 yards off the tee will be suspended and banished to the ‘Rest of the World’ Tour.

> > > > >

> > > > > To be allowed access to the course as a spectator at the televised events, you will need to demonstrate the ability to shout ‘Mashed potato’ or some other inane phrase at 110 decibels, preferably when under the influence of a couple of pints of weak beer.

> > > > >

> > > > > Traditional golf values of etiquette, decorum and sportsmanship will be actively frowned upon. Loud music, copious amounts of alcohol and leery behaviour on the course are a given.

> > > > >

> > > > > Contractually, professional players will be required to attend post-round interviews but will only be required to answer with words of one syllable...personality is not a requirement.

> > > > >

> > > > > The game will be allowed to flourish with no restrictions and the Green Jacket will be replaced with the Green Hoodie.

> > > >

> > > > I know thousands of golfers and none remotely think like you, thank goodness....while the game is not perfect (i.e, rules) it is still the best game in the world.

> > >

> > > I’m sorry. “ thousands “ ? As in one thousand or 20 thousand ? That’s a lot of golfers. Do you play with a different foursome twice a day ?

> >

> > Just for the record Jethro, I've worked at the same golf course for 13years …..any more questions....

>

> Lol. Having worked at a course myself from 1995-1999 I’m not at all sure how you “ know “ thousands. Maybe we need to define “ know “.

 

I certainly understand why you don't know many people...….

[Titleist99]

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

 

Seem to be the same thread wreckers…… some of them aren't mature enough to be on the internet unsupervised....

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

 

I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

[Titleist99]

Watching the Champion tour guys at the Phoenix Country Club at 6700+....these guys are better than anyone on this board and

they're mixing it up pretty good. At the end of the day they'll crown a champ... by the way the course was built in 1923

Wait 'til they get the memo that people want to rollback their distance....LOL!

 

I know that they are the older guys but they can still play and the course is not that long...

[DFS PFD]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

>

> I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

 

43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

> >

> > I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> > Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

>

> 43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

 

That would result in a 5% reduction in distance at most. Insignificant.

[DFS PFD]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

> > >

> > > I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> > > Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

> >

> > 43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

>

> That would result in a 5% reduction in distance at most. Insignificant.

 

That's why I said in theory, not married to the 43" number (I also realize we'd have to remove too much length for this to be an effective means), just hoping to stimulate this thread into a positive direction again. (not that we didn't beat it to death in the last 100+ page distance thread)

[ThinkingPlus]

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

> > > >

> > > > I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> > > > Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

> > >

> > > 43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

> >

> > That would result in a 5% reduction in distance at most. Insignificant.

>

> That's why I said in theory, not married to the 43" number (I also realize we'd have to remove too much length for this to be an effective means), just hoping to stimulate this thread into a positive direction again. (not that we didn't beat it to death in the last 100+ page distance thread)

 

My best guess is that the RBs are going to do 2 things in order to address the distance "issue".

 

1) They will limit the number of layers in the ball to either 3 or 4. If 3 there will be lawsuits. If 4 maybe not.

2) Clubhead speed for max ball speed limit tests will be increased to better represent the top end driver speeds of elite players.

 

These changes will be claimed to place a final cap on distance giving the RBs a nice face saving gesture. The OEMs will probably accept a 4 layer limit since they would still have design wiggle room. The tours would be OK since it represents no rollback, but more status quo. Disclaimer: I have no inside information. This is solely my opinion.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

> > >

> > > I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> > > Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

> >

> > 43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

>

> That would result in a 5% reduction in distance at most. Insignificant.

 

43" steel? I have a feeling, not based on hard data, that 43" steel shafts would roll it back more than 5%. Could be wrong.

[rangersgoalie]

> @LICC said:

> > @clevited said:

> > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> >

> > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> >

> > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> >

> > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> >

> > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> >

> > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> >

> >

>

> Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

 

 

I did back in 1997. Hired an amazing trainer in March. But August I was 8+ longer with driver and nearly a club with my irons. What I learned was amazing, and has led me to send serious students to him though he is an hour away from where I teach. All but one of 8 students who have worked with him picked up substantial distance (6+ yards.

 

Gains from fitness can also be from gaining mobility. I have no idea on Molinari but maybe his ability to move better due to his work allowed him to rotate and use his lower half better.

 

I worked with an ART practicioner and he helped me pick up 7-8 degrees in thoracic rotation. He’s done the same helping many students gain mobility

 

Argue what you like, but I’ve seen fitness and being able to move better (which IS part of a great training program imo) help almost every student that does it to hit it further and more efficiently.

 

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

> > > >

> > > > I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> > > > Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

> > >

> > > 43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

> >

> > That would result in a 5% reduction in distance at most. Insignificant.

>

> 43" steel? I have a feeling, not based on hard data, that 43" steel shafts would roll it back more than 5%. Could be wrong.

 

My estimate is based mostly on physics.

[LICC]

> @rangersgoalie said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> > >

> > > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> > >

> > > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> > >

> > > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> > >

> > > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> > >

> > > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

>

>

> I did back in 1997. Hired an amazing trainer in March. But August I was 8+ longer with driver and nearly a club with my irons. What I learned was amazing, and has led me to send serious students to him though he is an hour away from where I teach. All but one of 8 students who have worked with him picked up substantial distance (6+ yards.

>

> Gains from fitness can also be from gaining mobility. I have no idea on Molinari but maybe his ability to move better due to his work allowed him to rotate and use his lower half better.

>

> I worked with an ART practicioner and he helped me pick up 7-8 degrees in thoracic rotation. He’s done the same helping many students gain mobility

>

> Argue what you like, but I’ve seen fitness and being able to move better (which IS part of a great training program imo) help almost every student that does it to hit it further and more efficiently.

>

>

>

 

I agree that stretching/flexibility exercises can help. But this is not new. Golfers have been doing this for ages.

[DFS PFD]

> @LICC said:

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> > > >

> > > > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> > > >

> > > > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> > > >

> > > > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> > > >

> > > > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> > > >

> > > > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

> >

> >

> > I did back in 1997. Hired an amazing trainer in March. But August I was 8+ longer with driver and nearly a club with my irons. What I learned was amazing, and has led me to send serious students to him though he is an hour away from where I teach. All but one of 8 students who have worked with him picked up substantial distance (6+ yards.

> >

> > Gains from fitness can also be from gaining mobility. I have no idea on Molinari but maybe his ability to move better due to his work allowed him to rotate and use his lower half better.

> >

> > I worked with an ART practicioner and he helped me pick up 7-8 degrees in thoracic rotation. He’s done the same helping many students gain mobility

> >

> > Argue what you like, but I’ve seen fitness and being able to move better (which IS part of a great training program imo) help almost every student that does it to hit it further and more efficiently.

> >

> >

> >

>

> I agree that stretching/flexibility exercises can help. But this is not new. Golfers have been doing this for ages.

 

Makes me wonder what the median potential is for golfers distance wise? If there's a potential measurement like V02 max that could be correlated with the average competitive golfer for the distance he/she is capable of?

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

> > > > >

> > > > > I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> > > > > Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

> > > >

> > > > 43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

> > >

> > > That would result in a 5% reduction in distance at most. Insignificant.

> >

> > 43" steel? I have a feeling, not based on hard data, that 43" steel shafts would roll it back more than 5%. Could be wrong.

>

> My estimate is based mostly on physics.

 

Fair enough, haha! I was just going off how my own swing speed decreases significantly going from 65 grams to 120+, and then estimating a further decrease going from 45.5” to 43”. If it’s only 5%, then maybe I should put it into play!

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > > > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> > > > > > Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

> > > > >

> > > > > 43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

> > > >

> > > > That would result in a 5% reduction in distance at most. Insignificant.

> > >

> > > 43" steel? I have a feeling, not based on hard data, that 43" steel shafts would roll it back more than 5%. Could be wrong.

> >

> > My estimate is based mostly on physics.

>

> Fair enough, haha! I was just going off how my own swing speed decreases significantly going from 65 grams to 120+, and then estimating a further decrease going from 45.5” to 43”. Idk if that’s physics; a lever twice as heavy and 2.5” shorter...

 

Double.

 

 

[Ashley Schaeffer]

 

 

Tripp Kuehne

 

[oikos1]

> @LICC said:

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @clevited said:

> > > > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> > > >

> > > > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> > > >

> > > > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> > > >

> > > > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> > > >

> > > > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> > > >

> > > > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

> >

> >

> > I did back in 1997. Hired an amazing trainer in March. But August I was 8+ longer with driver and nearly a club with my irons. What I learned was amazing, and has led me to send serious students to him though he is an hour away from where I teach. All but one of 8 students who have worked with him picked up substantial distance (6+ yards.

> >

> > Gains from fitness can also be from gaining mobility. I have no idea on Molinari but maybe his ability to move better due to his work allowed him to rotate and use his lower half better.

> >

> > I worked with an ART practicioner and he helped me pick up 7-8 degrees in thoracic rotation. He’s done the same helping many students gain mobility

> >

> > Argue what you like, but I’ve seen fitness and being able to move better (which IS part of a great training program imo) help almost every student that does it to hit it further and more efficiently.

> >

> >

> >

>

> I agree that stretching/flexibility exercises can help. But this is not new. Golfers have been doing this for ages.

 

 

[clevited]

> @oikos1 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> > > > >

> > > > > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> > > > >

> > > > > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> > > > >

> > > > > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> > > > >

> > > > > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

> > >

> > >

> > > I did back in 1997. Hired an amazing trainer in March. But August I was 8+ longer with driver and nearly a club with my irons. What I learned was amazing, and has led me to send serious students to him though he is an hour away from where I teach. All but one of 8 students who have worked with him picked up substantial distance (6+ yards.

> > >

> > > Gains from fitness can also be from gaining mobility. I have no idea on Molinari but maybe his ability to move better due to his work allowed him to rotate and use his lower half better.

> > >

> > > I worked with an ART practicioner and he helped me pick up 7-8 degrees in thoracic rotation. He’s done the same helping many students gain mobility

> > >

> > > Argue what you like, but I’ve seen fitness and being able to move better (which IS part of a great training program imo) help almost every student that does it to hit it further and more efficiently.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I agree that stretching/flexibility exercises can help. But this is not new. Golfers have been doing this for ages.

>

>

>

 

Pretty much.

[clevited]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > > > > > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> > > > > > > > Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That would result in a 5% reduction in distance at most. Insignificant.

> > > > >

> > > > > 43" steel? I have a feeling, not based on hard data, that 43" steel shafts would roll it back more than 5%. Could be wrong.

> > > >

> > > > My estimate is based mostly on physics.

> > >

> > > Fair enough, haha! I was just going off how my own swing speed decreases significantly going from 65 grams to 120+, and then estimating a further decrease going from 45.5” to 43”. Idk if that’s physics; a lever twice as heavy and 2.5” shorter...

> >

> > If it’s only 5%, then maybe I should put it into play!

> >

> >

>

> Ugh! I hate that I can’t edit on mobile. Sorry for the double posts, everyone!

>

>

 

Turn phone to landscape mode, edit icon shows up.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @clevited said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> > > > > > > > > Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That would result in a 5% reduction in distance at most. Insignificant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 43" steel? I have a feeling, not based on hard data, that 43" steel shafts would roll it back more than 5%. Could be wrong.

> > > > >

> > > > > My estimate is based mostly on physics.

> > > >

> > > > Fair enough, haha! I was just going off how my own swing speed decreases significantly going from 65 grams to 120+, and then estimating a further decrease going from 45.5” to 43”. Idk if that’s physics; a lever twice as heavy and 2.5” shorter...

> > >

> > > If it’s only 5%, then maybe I should put it into play!

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Ugh! I hate that I can’t edit on mobile. Sorry for the double posts, everyone!

> >

> >

>

> Turn phone to landscape mode, edit icon shows up.

 

Best post in the thread. Thanks!

[clevited]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Sad to see this one get derailed, had some actual content and debate for awhile.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I hear you. I engaged in a debate with someone who was trying to say increased strength didn't enable a player to hit the ball harder. I got wrapped up. Lesson learned.

> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, who's on board with the 43" max steel shaft mandate for the US Open and Bristish Open? Seems less intrusive to the amateur game, 11-12 shafts in most pro's bags are already steel, and the shafts already exist from a manufacturing standpoint. "Problem" solved?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 43" max length club could be interesting in theory. Not taking a side, but if distance was accepted as an issue that could mitigate the issue.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That would result in a 5% reduction in distance at most. Insignificant.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 43" steel? I have a feeling, not based on hard data, that 43" steel shafts would roll it back more than 5%. Could be wrong.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My estimate is based mostly on physics.

> > > > >

> > > > > Fair enough, haha! I was just going off how my own swing speed decreases significantly going from 65 grams to 120+, and then estimating a further decrease going from 45.5” to 43”. Idk if that’s physics; a lever twice as heavy and 2.5” shorter...

> > > >

> > > > If it’s only 5%, then maybe I should put it into play!

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Ugh! I hate that I can’t edit on mobile. Sorry for the double posts, everyone!

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Turn phone to landscape mode, edit icon shows up.

>

> Best post in the thread. Thanks!

 

Ha, it was mentioned earlier in this thread, only reason I knew that!