Lets take a closer look at distance off the Tee....

LICC · November 9, 2019

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > >

> > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > >

> > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > >

> > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> >

> > Phil Mickelson

> >

> > Jerry Kelly

> >

> > David Duval

> >

> > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

>

> DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

airjammer · November 9, 2019

No, thats not how it works. I wish that was true but it’s not. The golf swing is heavily timing dependent as we all know. If you increase the range of motion on someone who already has average range you are more likely to get less speed because you have changed the timing.

I can’t find it but there is a video of one of the pga tour physical therapist and when they work on things the is only trying to get them to the mean not above it.

If you already can get to 45 degrees hip turn and 90

Degrees shoulder turn, 5 degrees increase will not lead to

any significant swing speed but might make you hit it sideways

Titleist99 · November 9, 2019

> @airjammer said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > @airjammer said:

> > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > @airjammer said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > I still can't believe the concept of fitness can make significant increases in swing speed and therefore distance is being debated. I swear that those of you that don't believe that, are also flat earthers.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have experience in this, have read about it, researched it and tried to understand it. Does it make me an expert, no, but I think I have more factual knowledge that most if not all of those saying fitness doesn't increase distance.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Fitness first of all, has many forms. There is the cardiovascular which is just good for your health in general but it also helps with walking 72 holes in a weekend tournament and not fading physically. There is flexibility you can obtain through fitness regimens which can help a person make a longer backswing if they so choose, better wrist hinge, more hip turn etc to possibly create more swing speed and therefore more distance. There is strength training you can do. Adding muscle doesn't necessary increase speed out right, but it does allow you to add more speed and be able to control it. You need stability, strong hands, strong wrists, strong forearms to swing a club north of 115-120 and do it repeatedly and well. That can come from fitness.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I know personally that I am at my current physical limit speed wise (aka potential distance wise) and I would need to hit the gym with purposeful exercise and weight training to reach a new limit. I would need to strengthen my legs primarily, my core, my hands, my forearms and wrists for sure, to be able to reach a higher ceiling. It is not easy to exactly quantify how much can be gained from fitness efforts alone but it can most definitely be substantial.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I turn your attention to the long drive guys on tv. They aren't all generally very muscular for no reason. They are all trying to reach their bodies limits and you have to have a good fitness program to do that. Take John Daly for instance. He had speed from both technique and genetics no doubt but you can bet he also got that from getting golf fit through just swinging hard. If he wanted to get to another level, he would have to lose weight, and add strength. He probably wouldn't benefit from much added flexibility but if he did work on that, he could make his swing even longer if he wanted.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I just can't believe that those of you so against this idea are that naive. You can't possibly. Yes, equipment, swing technique, optimization are a huge part of what can help increase a person's distance but so is purposeful golf related fitness (working out so that you can run a mile in 5 minutes isn't necessarily going to do anything for your swing speed, nor is just bulking up and becoming very muscular, it has to be specific to golf and there are a lot of known ways to improve your swing speed via very specific fitness programs).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Stop with that flat-earth silliness. You have ZERO results-based facts to show that anyone on the Tour added any significant distance by adding a fitness/workout regiment.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Again, I believe it's difficult to find examples:

> > > > > > > > > (a) because almost all of them have golf-specific workout routines before making it on tour. It's basically a modern requirement for most; and

> > > > > > > > > (b) anyone who makes it on tour being out of shape is very unlikely to suddenly get ripped.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Scott Stallings. In 2018 incorporated Cross Fit workouts and lost 50 pounds. And he went from an out-of-shape Tour player to a very fit player. Zero impact on his driving distance.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yeah, he had quite the transformation. I do find his stats interesting since he _began_ fitness traning in Q2 2018:

> > > > > > > Driving distance:

> > > > > > > 2020: 313

> > > > > > > 2019: 297

> > > > > > > 2018: 299.7

> > > > > > > 2017: 297.6

> > > > > > > 2016: 295.5

> > > > > > > 2015: 291.8

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Another guy that has changed his swing drastically. He was a secondary axis tilt guy like Hossler and Kokrak. Now he is closer to over the top but inside. Before he changed his swing under scott hamilton he too much shaft line.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Seeing as I am working with Ryan Steenburg via Trainerize

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think you would be surprised how their workouts are configured.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > None of these guys were small and got big. Most were fast and big..they might have gotten bigger but that’s because if you have a big engine you better have big brakes

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Not entirely sure if you know I was being sarcastic or not. You looked to have further proved the point about what fitness can do for you regarding swing speed and distance. I don't deny one bit that some people are born with genetics that make speed and distance more natural but it is incorrect to say you cannot get significantly faster via the right kind of fitness program.

> > > >

> > > > My back was starting to hurt so I felt I need a qualified person to help me with that but I never told him

> > > > that my back was acting up after golf. I don’t need the speed I already swing faster than average tour player.

> > > >

> > > > Scott Stalling was brought up earlier. He lost 50

> > > > pounds and got in much better shape. This is his 2019 and 2018 driving distance stats..he actually lost distance??‍♂️ So the fitness people can put that in their pipe and smoke it. !

> > > >

> > >

> > > There are hundreds of things that impact total driving distance on tour. We are focused primary on club head speed, not all of those different variables.

> >

> > The Golf Channel did a piece on Scott Stallings and he stated his reasons for his weight lost and getting more distance wasn't one of them. He wanted to be around for his kids and his quality of life was affected. Swing speed is affected by swinging the club faster, here is a statement Phil made while trying to gain speed:

> >

> > The SuperSpeed sticks come with an accompanying training manual, which recommends using the gadgets three days a week for 10 minutes at a time. According to SuperSpeed, players typically gain between five and eight percent additional speed after four to six weeks of training. More than 600 professionals have used the SuperSpeed system at one point or another, with Phil Mickelson serving as the most notable success story.

> >

> > Mickelson credits the system for helping his swing speed jump from 116 mph last season to 120 mph in 2019.

> >

> > The PGA Tour says that speed training and equipment is the reason for longer drives......so, there is no wrong or right you need both.

>

> Ha! So getting in shape doesn’t equate to swing speed?

>

> It wasn’t you but AS put up a 2020 driving distance stat for 16 drives and everyone goes see fitness can increase distance and I put up 2 stats from a whole year and it becomes..he wasn’t trying to get speed..OK

butterysnaphook · November 9, 2019

Since a few of you are smarter than science itself, explain to me how my swing was unchanged but I picked up a consistent 5mph of speed just by lifting weights and becoming stronger. I was 108 average everyday and jumped to 113 average everyday, measured on my own GC and on the trackmans I’ve used. You all just want it not to be true because you don’t wanna put in the work and it pains you to know you’re leaving distance on the table. I literally posted links of multiple studies that have proved that lifting weights increases swing speed in untrained golfers. Arguing with science is ridiculously stupid.

LICC · November 9, 2019

> @butterysnaphook said:

> Since a few of you are smarter than science itself, explain to me how my swing was unchanged but I picked up a consistent 5mph of speed just by lifting weights and becoming stronger. I was 108 average everyday and jumped to 113 average everyday, measured on my own GC and on the trackmans I’ve used. You all just want it not to be true because you don’t wanna put in the work and it pains you to know you’re leaving distance on the table. I literally posted links of multiple studies that have proved that lifting weights increases swing speed in untrained golfers. Arguing with science is ridiculously stupid.

Yes, you can ascertain how much someone works out by their posts in a golf forum. That’s about as accurate as your other “scientific” conclusions in this discussion.

Ashley Schaeffer · November 9, 2019

So, what I’ve learned here is: Modern golf is all about power and less about skill, all the guys work out to chase or maintain speed, and they are all wasting their time.

butterysnaphook · November 9, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @butterysnaphook said:

> > Since a few of you are smarter than science itself, explain to me how my swing was unchanged but I picked up a consistent 5mph of speed just by lifting weights and becoming stronger. I was 108 average everyday and jumped to 113 average everyday, measured on my own GC and on the trackmans I’ve used. You all just want it not to be true because you don’t wanna put in the work and it pains you to know you’re leaving distance on the table. I literally posted links of multiple studies that have proved that lifting weights increases swing speed in untrained golfers. Arguing with science is ridiculously stupid.

>

> Yes, you can ascertain how much someone works out by their posts in a golf forum. That’s about as accurate as your other “scientific” conclusions in this discussion.

You don’t trust multiple legitimate studies proving that lifting increases swing speed? Are you smarter than all of those reputable scientists?

butterysnaphook · November 9, 2019

Watch him evade that question.

BarnbougleDunes03 · November 9, 2019

> @airjammer said:

> No, thats not how it works. I wish that was true but it’s not. The golf swing is heavily timing dependent as we all know. If you increase the range of motion on someone who already has average range you are more likely to get less speed because you have changed the timing.

>

> I can’t find it but there is a video of one of the pga tour physical therapist and when they work on things the is only trying to get them to the mean not above it.

>

> If you already can get to 45 degrees hip turn and 90

> Degrees shoulder turn, 5 degrees increase will not lead to

> any significant swing speed but might make you hit it sideways

Some swings are built more on timing with other swings (more modern teachings) are built more rotational, holding off and turning as hard as a player can through the ball.

Perhaps you’re brave enough to answer this question:

Q) “Do you agree or deny that the heavy majority of the world long-drivers have more muscled physiques than compared to regular pro tour players?

LICC · November 9, 2019

> @butterysnaphook said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > Since a few of you are smarter than science itself, explain to me how my swing was unchanged but I picked up a consistent 5mph of speed just by lifting weights and becoming stronger. I was 108 average everyday and jumped to 113 average everyday, measured on my own GC and on the trackmans I’ve used. You all just want it not to be true because you don’t wanna put in the work and it pains you to know you’re leaving distance on the table. I literally posted links of multiple studies that have proved that lifting weights increases swing speed in untrained golfers. Arguing with science is ridiculously stupid.

> >

> > Yes, you can ascertain how much someone works out by their posts in a golf forum. That’s about as accurate as your other “scientific” conclusions in this discussion.

>

> You don’t trust multiple legitimate studies proving that lifting increases swing speed? Are you smarter than all of those reputable scientists?

I have to read those studies. The one I looked at briefly had players who didn’t hit it 220.

More on point- name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

butterysnaphook · November 9, 2019

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/27e8/e25743abe595b15e5ccd09fd286bd5308685.pdf

GoGoErky · November 9, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > >

> > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > >

> > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > >

> > > Phil Mickelson

> > >

> > > Jerry Kelly

> > >

> > > David Duval

> > >

> > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> >

> > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

>

> DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

Like the scientific examples already provided

airjammer · November 9, 2019

> @butterysnaphook said:

> Since a few of you are smarter than science itself, explain to me how my swing was unchanged but I picked up a consistent 5mph of speed just by lifting weights and becoming stronger. I was 108 average everyday and jumped to 113 average everyday, measured on my own GC and on the trackmans I’ve used. You all just want it not to be true because you don’t wanna put in the work and it pains you to know you’re leaving distance on the table. I literally posted links of multiple studies that have proved that lifting weights increases swing speed in untrained golfers. Arguing with science is ridiculously stupid.

We aren’t talking about untrained golfer..we are talking about trained golfers. So yes if you take a desk jockey that hasn’t exercised in years and only hit balls before his/her round and get them to workout absolutely they can gain speed. They could gain more speed than working out by hitting 50 balls as hard as they can 3 times a week imo

Tiger not faster than when he was a twig..even before injury and he trained harder than anyone. Duval lost his game after working out..he certainly didn’t gain speed. Michelson did gain speed and with a swing change and has lost his game.

gvogel · November 9, 2019

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @butterysnaphook said:

> > Sounds like a lack of discipline when he was growing up. Considering he still debates (argues) like a complete child. Mommy and daddy always let him win, but I won’t.

>

> One thing is certain....It takes two to argue. You make your point and move on.....the choice is totally up to you! No need to comment, no need to name call.....It's know as being the bigger person....I'm just saying.

Yes, that comment was uncalled for.

LICC · November 9, 2019

> @butterysnaphook said:

>

Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

LICC · November 9, 2019

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > >

> > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > >

> > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > >

> > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > >

> > > > David Duval

> > > >

> > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > >

> > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> >

> > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

>

> DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> Like the scientific examples already provided

I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

airjammer · November 9, 2019

> @butterysnaphook said:

> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/27e8/e25743abe595b15e5ccd09fd286bd5308685.pdf

>

Ha! Any good swing coach can get a untrained golfer 1.67 mph about 5 swings and the distances is jacked up. You gain 2 yards per 1 mph ball speed. They should have max gained 6 yards with a driver with 1.5 smash.

Titleist99 · November 9, 2019

> @airjammer said:

> No, thats not how it works. I wish that was true but it’s not. The golf swing is heavily timing dependent as we all know. If you increase the range of motion on someone who already has average range you are more likely to get less speed because you have changed the timing.

>

> I can’t find it but there is a video of one of the pga tour physical therapist and when they work on things the is only trying to get them to the mean not above it.

>

> If you already can get to 45 degrees hip turn and 90

> Degrees shoulder turn, 5 degrees increase will not lead to

> any significant swing speed but might make you hit it sideways

You need to google Jim Mclain's X-factor...….because you are incredibly misinformed.

BarnbougleDunes03 · November 9, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > Since a few of you are smarter than science itself, explain to me how my swing was unchanged but I picked up a consistent 5mph of speed just by lifting weights and becoming stronger. I was 108 average everyday and jumped to 113 average everyday, measured on my own GC and on the trackmans I’ve used. You all just want it not to be true because you don’t wanna put in the work and it pains you to know you’re leaving distance on the table. I literally posted links of multiple studies that have proved that lifting weights increases swing speed in untrained golfers. Arguing with science is ridiculously stupid.

> > >

> > > Yes, you can ascertain how much someone works out by their posts in a golf forum. That’s about as accurate as your other “scientific” conclusions in this discussion.

> >

> > You don’t trust multiple legitimate studies proving that lifting increases swing speed? Are you smarter than all of those reputable scientists?

>

> I have to read those studies. The one I looked at briefly had players who didn’t hit it 220.

>

> More on point- name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

We have. I started with Francesco Molinari. His swing coach Denis Pugh tweeted me directly after I asked him if Fitness was a factor in their distance gains, he replied "Fitness played a massive part" in their distance gains after specifically designing & undertaking a fitness program with the goal to create more power / distance. Denis in a separate article comments that "Power doesn’t come from technique, it comes from physique,” they tweaked his technique also so to "not block that newfound energy". I've already quoted this additional insight. Denis Pugh's "Fitness played a massive part" response was his summation/conclusion underpinned by 3 years of unique insight, analysis, data & measurement.

You're welcome.

BarnbougleDunes03 · November 9, 2019

LICC and now airjammer… both running scared to the fitness/distance question below.

Q) “Do you agree or deny that the heavy majority of the world long-drivers have more muscled physiques than compared to the heavy majority of regular pro tour players?

Myself and others here are / and have been prepared to answer any question LICC or others put forward, but sadly it’s not reciprocated when our questions challenge their agenda.

I don’t understand why LICC and others can’t be more open & honest in answering simple questions.

Perhaps an open & honest conversation has never been their objective. Sad really.

bladehunter · November 9, 2019

> @clevited said:

> > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> >

>

> Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

Using gorillas as an example isn’t really helping. When anyone here says distance they mean relative to accuracy. Those guys don’t hit a 150 yard runway more than once every 15 swings. So yes. To your point. If you want to swing off balance and never hit it in play , you can add speed to a already fast guy. But what are yo I going to use it for ?

bladehunter · November 9, 2019

> @butterysnaphook said:

> Who should we believe? Every tour pro (basically all of the good ones) who go to the gym to keep/gain speed, or the old guys in this forum who don’t want to accept the gym can help you gain speed because they don’t want to do it? Yeah I’m out of this convo. Y’all have fun with these clowns.

Lol. Old guys. Are you 12?

GoGoErky · November 9, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > >

> > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > >

> > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > >

> > > > > David Duval

> > > > >

> > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > >

> > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > >

> > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> >

> > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > Like the scientific examples already provided

>

> I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

LICC · November 9, 2019

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > >

> > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > >

> > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > >

> > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > >

> > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> >

> > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

>

> Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

>

> In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

oikos1 · November 9, 2019

I've never seen a thread get train wrecked by someone saying the same phrase over and over and over like a three year old with their hands over their ears. Mods should just shut this one down,

GoGoErky · November 9, 2019

> @LICC said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > >

> > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > >

> > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > >

> > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> >

> > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> >

> > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

>

> Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

That’s already been stated multiple times but you don’t want to accept it.

clevited · November 9, 2019

> @bladehunter said:

> > @clevited said:

> > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > >

> >

> > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

>

> Using gorillas as an example isn’t really helping. When anyone here says distance they mean relative to accuracy. Those guys don’t hit a 150 yard runway more than once every 15 swings. So yes. To your point. If you want to swing off balance and never hit it in play , you can add speed to a already fast guy. But what are yo I going to use it for ?

What are you smoking? They are simply examples that prove distance can be increased (accurate or not, comon with this accuracy twist, seriously adding that to this already rediculous tangent) through fitness.

Nobody is saying you will add 40 mph through it alone. I already have given myself as some proof of the merits of one type of fitness regimen, the super speed type of training. There is undeniable information out there yet you and a couple of others are closing your eyes to it. My God, I have never seen such nativity. I mean, the proof is out there, look for it and teach yourself a new fact. Apparently those of us trying to show you are not reliable sources so I suggest you open your minds to learning something new and look it up.

LICC · November 9, 2019

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > >

> > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > >

> > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > >

> > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > >

> > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> >

> > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

>

> That’s already been stated multiple times but you don’t want to accept it.

If you want to ignore actual distance numbers or swing changes, sure. But in reality, you have failed to identify anyone.

LICC · November 9, 2019

> @clevited said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > >

> > >

> > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> >

> > Using gorillas as an example isn’t really helping. When anyone here says distance they mean relative to accuracy. Those guys don’t hit a 150 yard runway more than once every 15 swings. So yes. To your point. If you want to swing off balance and never hit it in play , you can add speed to a already fast guy. But what are yo I going to use it for ?

>

> What are you smoking? They are simply examples that prove distance can be increased (accurate or not, comon with this accuracy twist, seriously adding that to this already rediculous tangent) through fitness.

>

> Nobody is saying you will add 40 mph through it alone. I already have given myself as some proof of the merits of one type of fitness regimen, the super speed type of training. There is undeniable information out there yet you and a couple of others are closing your eyes to it. My God, I have never seen such nativity. I mean, the proof is out there, look for it and teach yourself a new fact. Apparently those of us trying to show you are not reliable sources so I suggest you open your minds to learning something new and look it up.

But they aren’t examples of that. You are so sloppy with your assumptions.

clevited · November 9, 2019

> @clevited said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @clevited said:

> > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > >

> > >

> > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> >

> > Using gorillas as an example isn’t really helping. When anyone here says distance they mean relative to accuracy. Those guys don’t hit a 150 yard runway more than once every 15 swings. So yes. To your point. If you want to swing off balance and never hit it in play , you can add speed to a already fast guy. But what are yo I going to use it for ?

>

> What are you smoking? They are simply examples that prove distance can be increased (accurate or not, comon with this accuracy twist, seriously adding that to this already rediculous tangent) through fitness.

>

> Nobody is saying you will add 40 mph through it alone. I already have given myself as some proof of the merits of one type of fitness regimen, the super speed type of training. There is undeniable information out there yet you and a couple of others are closing your eyes to it. My God, I have never seen such nativity. I mean, the proof is out there, look for it and teach yourself a new fact. Apparently those of us trying to show you are not reliable sources so I suggest you open your minds to learning something new and look it up.

Edit: Those guys have huge useable and controllable speed for on the course. They don't have to dial it back much in general to hit it on target. You have little respect for what those guys can do. More and more of these LD guys are also pretty good golfers these days.

You gain the maximum speed you can, dial it back and have achieved stable and consistent speed that is higher than you could previously control. That is the idea. You also have a higher ceiling for if you need it.

Lets take a closer look at distance off the Tee....

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