Lets take a closer look at distance off the Tee....

[oikos1]

> @LICC said:

> > @oikos1 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > > I've never seen a thread train wrecked by someone saying the same phrase over and over and over like a three year old with their hands over their ears. Mods should just shut this one down,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No !!!!…..The moderators should shut him down. The thread is just fine,

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > > I've never seen a thread get train wrecked by someone saying the same phrase over and over and over like a three year old with their hands over their ears. Mods should just shut this one down,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No !!!!…..The moderators should shut him down. The thread is just fine,

> > > > >

> > > > > You want someone popped for disagreeing with you ? Wow. As if you aren’t saying the same thing over and over. That’s the last 27 pages. EVERYONE saying the same thing over and over. Your **** smells just like everyone else’s. Come on.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Why I clicked back in here I don’t know. Turrible downer of a click it is.

> > > >

> > > > Actually, no. I haven't been saying the same phrase over and over and over. You want to tie your wagon to this horse, giddy up!

> > >

> > > K. I disagree. Completely. Sure. I can play semantics and tell you I’ve rephrased my opinion multiple times thus not saying the exact same thing. But I’d be bending the truth if I did.

> >

> > Let's cut to the chase. Do you actually believe that not a single professional golfer has gained distance as a result of a fitness regimen? You don't believe any of the examples given? You don't believe the words of Rory Mcilroy, Phil Mickelson, or rangersgoalie?

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> I believe what the data and stats say. As you haven’t shown any that support your claim, then that is what we have.

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't asking you. You've already made your position quite clear on this topic. That question was specifically for Bladehunter.

[bladehunter]

> @oikos1 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > I've never seen a thread train wrecked by someone saying the same phrase over and over and over like a three year old with their hands over their ears. Mods should just shut this one down,

> > > > >

> > > > > No !!!!…..The moderators should shut him down. The thread is just fine,

> > > >

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > I've never seen a thread get train wrecked by someone saying the same phrase over and over and over like a three year old with their hands over their ears. Mods should just shut this one down,

> > > > >

> > > > > No !!!!…..The moderators should shut him down. The thread is just fine,

> > > >

> > > > You want someone popped for disagreeing with you ? Wow. As if you aren’t saying the same thing over and over. That’s the last 27 pages. EVERYONE saying the same thing over and over. Your **** smells just like everyone else’s. Come on.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Why I clicked back in here I don’t know. Turrible downer of a click it is.

> > >

> > > Actually, no. I haven't been saying the same phrase over and over and over. You want to tie your wagon to this horse, giddy up!

> >

> > K. I disagree. Completely. Sure. I can play semantics and tell you I’ve rephrased my opinion multiple times thus not saying the exact same thing. But I’d be bending the truth if I did.

>

> Let's cut to the chase. Do you actually believe that not a single professional golfer has gained distance as a result of a fitness regimen? You don't believe any of the examples given? You don't believe the words of Rory Mcilroy, Phil Mickelson, or rangersgoalie?

>

>

>

>

 

I don’t believe that a fit guy has gained anything measurable. Soft Phil gained. Rangers I don’t know personally. I’m sure he would say he got into better shape and then gained speed. My statement was that a fast - fit player isn’t going to add 10 mph by suddenly working out. And using long driver guys as examples is just apples and oranges.

 

And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

 

The answer is not black and white. And the question or argument is fruitless tangent ... a side track on this railroad to hell. lol.

[bigred90gt]

> @bladehunter said:

>

> And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

>

 

I assume you glossed over this post, with a direct quote from Rory stating otherwise?

 

 

> @oikos1 said:

>

> #3 Rory Mcilroy.

>

> "If we then look at Mcilroy’s club head speed in 2009 we can see his average speed was 116.15mph, followed by 116mph in 2010. By 2012 his average club head speed had increased to 120.21mph. It is not unreasonable to assume this increase in speed is at least partially the result of the hard work Mcilroy has put in to the gym. In addition, multiple studies have investigated the effects of strength training on club head speed and found increases in the region 1.6-6.3% (1) which would correlate to what we have seen with Rory."

>

> "I just have to say, look at who I was and where I was as a golfer in 2010. I started training in September 2010 and look at me now. Since I started training I’ve won four majors and got to world number one. So it can only help.” - Rory McIlroy

>

 

[LICC]

> @bigred90gt said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> >

> > And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

> >

>

> I assume you glossed over this post, with a direct quote from Rory stating otherwise?

>

>

> > @oikos1 said:

> >

> > #3 Rory Mcilroy.

> >

> > "If we then look at Mcilroy’s club head speed in 2009 we can see his average speed was 116.15mph, followed by 116mph in 2010. By 2012 his average club head speed had increased to 120.21mph. It is not unreasonable to assume this increase in speed is at least partially the result of the hard work Mcilroy has put in to the gym. In addition, multiple studies have investigated the effects of strength training on club head speed and found increases in the region 1.6-6.3% (1) which would correlate to what we have seen with Rory."

> >

> > "I just have to say, look at who I was and where I was as a golfer in 2010. I started training in September 2010 and look at me now. Since I started training I’ve won four majors and got to world number one. So it can only help.” - Rory McIlroy

> >

>

 

He didn’t gain distance according to the stats.

[Titleist99]

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > >

> > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > >

> > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > >

> > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > >

> > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > >

> > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Phil Mickelson

> >

> >

> > Jerry Kelly

> >

> >

> > David Duval

> >

> >

> >

> > Scott Mccarron

>

> It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

 

Not true~

 

 

 

You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

 

 

 

 

LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

 

 

[oikos1]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @oikos1 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > > I've never seen a thread train wrecked by someone saying the same phrase over and over and over like a three year old with their hands over their ears. Mods should just shut this one down,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No !!!!…..The moderators should shut him down. The thread is just fine,

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > > I've never seen a thread get train wrecked by someone saying the same phrase over and over and over like a three year old with their hands over their ears. Mods should just shut this one down,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No !!!!…..The moderators should shut him down. The thread is just fine,

> > > > >

> > > > > You want someone popped for disagreeing with you ? Wow. As if you aren’t saying the same thing over and over. That’s the last 27 pages. EVERYONE saying the same thing over and over. Your **** smells just like everyone else’s. Come on.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Why I clicked back in here I don’t know. Turrible downer of a click it is.

> > > >

> > > > Actually, no. I haven't been saying the same phrase over and over and over. You want to tie your wagon to this horse, giddy up!

> > >

> > > K. I disagree. Completely. Sure. I can play semantics and tell you I’ve rephrased my opinion multiple times thus not saying the exact same thing. But I’d be bending the truth if I did.

> >

> > Let's cut to the chase. Do you actually believe that not a single professional golfer has gained distance as a result of a fitness regimen? You don't believe any of the examples given? You don't believe the words of Rory Mcilroy, Phil Mickelson, or rangersgoalie?

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> I don’t believe that a fit guy has gained anything measurable. Soft Phil gained. Rangers I don’t know personally. I’m sure he would say he got into better shape and then gained speed. My statement was that a fast - fit player isn’t going to add 10 mph by suddenly working out. And using long driver guys as examples is just apples and oranges.

>

> And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

>

> The answer is not black and white. And the question or argument is fruitless tangent ... a side track on this railroad to ****. lol.

 

Of course the overall issue isn't black and white. The answers to the questions are. They were either "yes" or "no".

 

At least you conceded Phil gained, although interesting how you added qualifiers. So if "soft Phil gained" as you put it, than we have a winner!

[LICC]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > >

> > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Phil Mickelson

> > >

> > >

> > > Jerry Kelly

> > >

> > >

> > > David Duval

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Scott Mccarron

> >

> > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

>

> Not true~

>

>

>

> You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

>

>

>

>

> LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

>

>

 

You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

[Titleist99]

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > >

> > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > David Duval

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Scott Mccarron

> > >

> > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> >

> > Not true~

> >

> >

> >

> > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> >

> >

>

> You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

 

LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

[bladehunter]

> @oikos1 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > > > I've never seen a thread train wrecked by someone saying the same phrase over and over and over like a three year old with their hands over their ears. Mods should just shut this one down,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No !!!!…..The moderators should shut him down. The thread is just fine,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > > > > > I've never seen a thread get train wrecked by someone saying the same phrase over and over and over like a three year old with their hands over their ears. Mods should just shut this one down,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No !!!!…..The moderators should shut him down. The thread is just fine,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You want someone popped for disagreeing with you ? Wow. As if you aren’t saying the same thing over and over. That’s the last 27 pages. EVERYONE saying the same thing over and over. Your **** smells just like everyone else’s. Come on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why I clicked back in here I don’t know. Turrible downer of a click it is.

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually, no. I haven't been saying the same phrase over and over and over. You want to tie your wagon to this horse, giddy up!

> > > >

> > > > K. I disagree. Completely. Sure. I can play semantics and tell you I’ve rephrased my opinion multiple times thus not saying the exact same thing. But I’d be bending the truth if I did.

> > >

> > > Let's cut to the chase. Do you actually believe that not a single professional golfer has gained distance as a result of a fitness regimen? You don't believe any of the examples given? You don't believe the words of Rory Mcilroy, Phil Mickelson, or rangersgoalie?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I don’t believe that a fit guy has gained anything measurable. Soft Phil gained. Rangers I don’t know personally. I’m sure he would say he got into better shape and then gained speed. My statement was that a fast - fit player isn’t going to add 10 mph by suddenly working out. And using long driver guys as examples is just apples and oranges.

> >

> > And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

> >

> > The answer is not black and white. And the question or argument is fruitless tangent ... a side track on this railroad to ****. lol.

>

> Of course the overall issue isn't black and white. The answers to the questions are. They were either "yes" or "no".

>

> At least you conceded Phil gained, although interesting how you added qualifiers. So if "soft Phil gained" as you put it, than we have a winner!

 

That’s just it. A winner of what ?

[butterysnaphook]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > David Duval

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Scott Mccarron

> > > >

> > > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> > >

> > > Not true~

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

>

> LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

 

LLIC is also a 10+ handicap (his words, not mine). No offense to 10+ handicaps at all, but they aren’t necessarily who should be making definitive statements on what makes a good golfer and what doesn’t.

[gvogel]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > David Duval

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Scott Mccarron

> > > >

> > > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> > >

> > > Not true~

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

>

> LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

 

This thread has devolved into an argument about whether going to the gym has increased driver distance on the PGA Tour. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. If it has, the anti-roll back crowd is arguing that the USGA R&A should leave the equipment alone. If it hasn't, the roll back crowd is arguing that the equipment should be changed to fit the game to the courses.

 

What is inarguable is that average driving distance has increased 40 yards in 40 years, as Titleist99 stated in the very first post on this thread.

 

Are the anti-roll back folks going to maintain that with a 40 yard increase, the game is just fine?

[bladehunter]

> @bigred90gt said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> >

> > And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

> >

>

> I assume you glossed over this post, with a direct quote from Rory stating otherwise?

>

>

> > @oikos1 said:

> >

> > #3 Rory Mcilroy.

> >

> > "If we then look at Mcilroy’s club head speed in 2009 we can see his average speed was 116.15mph, followed by 116mph in 2010. By 2012 his average club head speed had increased to 120.21mph. It is not unreasonable to assume this increase in speed is at least partially the result of the hard work Mcilroy has put in to the gym. In addition, multiple studies have investigated the effects of strength training on club head speed and found increases in the region 1.6-6.3% (1) which would correlate to what we have seen with Rory."

> >

> > "I just have to say, look at who I was and where I was as a golfer in 2010. I started training in September 2010 and look at me now. Since I started training I’ve won four majors and got to world number one. So it can only help.” - Rory McIlroy

> >

>

 

Nah. I’m done. I’m going to the course to hit some high bombs and take some skin money.

 

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Scott Mccarron

> > > > >

> > > > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> > > >

> > > > Not true~

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

> >

> > LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

>

> This thread has devolved into an argument about whether going to the gym has increased driver distance on the PGA Tour. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. If it has, the anti-roll back crowd is arguing that the USGA R&A should leave the equipment alone. If it hasn't, the roll back crowd is arguing that the equipment should be changed to fit the game to the courses.

>

> What is inarguable is that average driving distance has increased 40 yards in 40 years, as Titleist99 stated in the very first post on this thread.

>

> Are the anti-roll back folks going to maintain that with a 40 yard increase, the game is just fine?

 

I think 25 more yards would be perfect. I’d like to see the classic courses played in a way that the designer never intended, and a bunch of people with Werther’s Original wrappers and used tissues in their pockets wring their hands over cold soup at Denny’s.

[Titleist99]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Scott Mccarron

> > > > >

> > > > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> > > >

> > > > Not true~

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

> >

> > LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

>

> This thread has devolved into an argument about whether going to the gym has increased driver distance on the PGA Tour. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. If it has, the anti-roll back crowd is arguing that the USGA R&A should leave the equipment alone. If it hasn't, the roll back crowd is arguing that the equipment should be changed to fit the game to the courses.

>

> What is inarguable is that average driving distance has increased 40 yards in 40 years, as Titleist99 stated in the very first post on this thread.

>

> Are the anti-roll back folks going to maintain that with a 40 yard increase, the game is just fine?

 

The game is great! Strategy is still the name of the game....IMO, people want to see the pros bomb it and the PGA tour want to see them bomb it......and they will keep bombing it until it is no longer advantageous to do so.

[Titleist99]

> @butterysnaphook said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Scott Mccarron

> > > > >

> > > > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> > > >

> > > > Not true~

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

> >

> > LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

>

> LLIC is also a 10+ handicap (his words, not mine). No offense to 10+ handicaps at all, but they aren’t necessarily who should be making definitive statements on what makes a good golfer and what doesn’t.

 

LOL~ Words of wisdom.

[gvogel]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Scott Mccarron

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not true~

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

> > >

> > > LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

> >

> > This thread has devolved into an argument about whether going to the gym has increased driver distance on the PGA Tour. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. If it has, the anti-roll back crowd is arguing that the USGA R&A should leave the equipment alone. If it hasn't, the roll back crowd is arguing that the equipment should be changed to fit the game to the courses.

> >

> > What is inarguable is that average driving distance has increased 40 yards in 40 years, as Titleist99 stated in the very first post on this thread.

> >

> > Are the anti-roll back folks going to maintain that with a 40 yard increase, the game is just fine?

>

> I think 25 more yards would be perfect. I’d like to see the classic courses played in a way that the designer never intended, and a bunch of people with Werther’s Original wrappers and used tissues in their pockets wring their hands over cold soup at Denny’s.

 

I had to google Werthers Original. :)

[15th Club]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Scott Mccarron

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not true~

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

> > >

> > > LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

> >

> > This thread has devolved into an argument about whether going to the gym has increased driver distance on the PGA Tour. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. If it has, the anti-roll back crowd is arguing that the USGA R&A should leave the equipment alone. If it hasn't, the roll back crowd is arguing that the equipment should be changed to fit the game to the courses.

> >

> > What is inarguable is that average driving distance has increased 40 yards in 40 years, as Titleist99 stated in the very first post on this thread.

> >

> > Are the anti-roll back folks going to maintain that with a 40 yard increase, the game is just fine?

>

> I think 25 more yards would be perfect. I’d like to see the classic courses played in a way that the designer never intended, and a bunch of people with Werther’s Original wrappers and used tissues in their pockets wring their hands over cold soup at Denny’s.

 

 

Let’s be really clear; you are not simply on record as saying new equipment (ball) restrictions “shouldn’t” happen. You have been saying that they “won’t” happen.

 

I don’t care to debate you — with all of your weird, oblique, unserious, passive-aggressive personal insults — about what should happen. Because you are way too annoying for my taste.

 

But on the matter of what WILL happen; all we need to do is wait. And we will see. You’ll be able to claim that what the USGA and R&A did was wrong. I will claim the opposite, and laugh with satisfaction as to what the new restrictions will entail. But the fact that they did something won’t be in any doubt.

 

You know guys who are terrible about saying, “I told you so!”? I am the absolute worst you have ever encountered.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @"15th Club" said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @gvogel said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Scott Mccarron

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not true~

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

> > > >

> > > > LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

> > >

> > > This thread has devolved into an argument about whether going to the gym has increased driver distance on the PGA Tour. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. If it has, the anti-roll back crowd is arguing that the USGA R&A should leave the equipment alone. If it hasn't, the roll back crowd is arguing that the equipment should be changed to fit the game to the courses.

> > >

> > > What is inarguable is that average driving distance has increased 40 yards in 40 years, as Titleist99 stated in the very first post on this thread.

> > >

> > > Are the anti-roll back folks going to maintain that with a 40 yard increase, the game is just fine?

> >

> > I think 25 more yards would be perfect. I’d like to see the classic courses played in a way that the designer never intended, and a bunch of people with Werther’s Original wrappers and used tissues in their pockets wring their hands over cold soup at Denny’s.

>

>

> Let’s be really clear; you are not simply on record as saying new equipment (ball) restrictions “shouldn’t” happen. You have been saying that they “won’t” happen.

>

> I don’t care to debate you — with all of your weird, oblique, unserious, passive-aggressive personal insults — about what should happen. Because you are way too annoying for my taste.

>

> But on the matter of what WILL happen; all we need to do is wait. And we will see. You’ll be able to claim that what the USGA and R&A did was wrong. I will claim the opposite, and laugh with satisfaction as to what the new restrictions will entail. But the fact that they did something won’t be in any doubt.

>

> You know guys who are terrible about saying, “I told you so!”? I am the absolute worst you have ever encountered.

 

Actually counselor, it is exactly what I would expect from you.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @"15th Club" said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @gvogel said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Scott Mccarron

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not true~

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

> > > >

> > > > LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

> > >

> > > This thread has devolved into an argument about whether going to the gym has increased driver distance on the PGA Tour. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. If it has, the anti-roll back crowd is arguing that the USGA R&A should leave the equipment alone. If it hasn't, the roll back crowd is arguing that the equipment should be changed to fit the game to the courses.

> > >

> > > What is inarguable is that average driving distance has increased 40 yards in 40 years, as Titleist99 stated in the very first post on this thread.

> > >

> > > Are the anti-roll back folks going to maintain that with a 40 yard increase, the game is just fine?

> >

> > I think 25 more yards would be perfect. I’d like to see the classic courses played in a way that the designer never intended, and a bunch of people with Werther’s Original wrappers and used tissues in their pockets wring their hands over cold soup at Denny’s.

>

>

> Let’s be really clear; you are not simply on record as saying new equipment (ball) restrictions “shouldn’t” happen. You have been saying that they “won’t” happen.

>

> I don’t care to debate you — with all of your weird, oblique, unserious, passive-aggressive personal insults — about what should happen. Because you are way too annoying for my taste.

>

> But on the matter of what WILL happen; all we need to do is wait. And we will see. You’ll be able to claim that what the USGA and R&A did was wrong. I will claim the opposite, and laugh with satisfaction as to what the new restrictions will entail. But the fact that they did something won’t be in any doubt.

>

> You know guys who are terrible about saying, “I told you so!”? I am the absolute worst you have ever encountered.

 

That’ll show me, haha! Then, I’ll be sorry; I’ll see!

 

Also, Pasatiempo. Dodge it again!

[15th Club]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @"15th Club" said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @butterysnaphook said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @mahonie said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @clevited said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently 'Fitness' has nothing to do with Distance. The heavy majority of the World's Long-Drivers say don't believe your lying eyes!!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you know that they go to the gym just for fun and the golf specific workouts they do absolutely did nothing for their swing speed, and distance? I mean comon, this has been argued against time and time again by a few people that obviously know. :neutral:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear! That’s moving towards the game I call ‘American Golf’...it’s not golf but it seems that’s where the ‘fans’ of the modern game are pushing it. Now I’ve realised that you are not actually debating about the game I’m familiar with I’ll leave you to your long drive games and get on with the proper game...cheers ?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So wait, you move from being a fitness can increase distance is BS, to that's American golf and doesn't matter, then to those guys are not real golfers so its meaningless type stance? What are you smoking? Those guys prove a point, they are the extreme end of golfers who are trying to get distance. In order to compete at the highest level every single one of those guys have to push their bodies to the limit and beyond. They have to train to be stronger in ways that do several things, help them be faster, more accurate and prevent injury. All of those guys no doubt have innate talent or a head start with swing speed via sports they played growing up or what have you, but most if not all need to focus a great deal on fitness in order to achieve what they achieve.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each one of us has a limit that we can get to just by swinging a club and practicing swinging fast. Doing so trains your body and muscles to sync everything together and also fire as fast as possible. Add swing efficiency and technique improvements to that and you can get a long ways. Some are going to get all the speed they care to have by doing this, I think Bubba Watson is a good example. Doesn't really work out to my knowledge but swings plenty fast. If he felt he needed to, he very well could add some speed via golf specific fitness. Explosive workouts are big helpers, overspeed training can be a big help, lifting heavy can be a big help. It has all been proven.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all easy to see. I would ask you deniers to google it, open your eyes and understand the simple truth that you can indeed add significant speed and therefore distance via various forms of fitness regimens. It is a more common practice today and their is better understanding of what exercises work vs Jacks day for instance. It is one of the many reasons more and more players today are very long and it is a significant one at that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Making a bunch of conclusory statements and speculations doesn’t make them any less ridiculous.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the studies. There are plenty more if you want them. I know you think you are incapable of being wrong but you are 100% incorrect. Science has proved you wrong 5+ times.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to my question- name three Tour players who significantly increased distance by doing fitness training they weren’t doing previously. You can’t. Scott Stalings- perfect example.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All stated in interviews that they gained distance due to fitness training and more swing speed. Duval took it to the extreme though.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 who stated in past interviews he needed to hit the gym and change his routine to keep up with the young guys on tour. Iirc it was on feherty where told a story of during a delay he saw the young guy us going to work out an instead of going to get lunch he went and got his gym clothes an hit the gym.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is hitting it 10 yards shorter than he did 10 years ago and 6 yards shorter than 5 years ago

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > DL3 is also 10 years older and 5 years older than what you are saying. But when he was playing in that time span he knew he needed to be in the gym to even be able to keep up. You continue to provide zero facts or studies for your point of view but that is just consistent with every thread you are in where you are proven wrong.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Like the scientific examples already provided

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I’m providing the best facts possible- the actual distances. And my point on DL is that his distances don’t support the argument that fitness training gave him greater length. It may have helped his game in other ways, but not added distance.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Your facts don’t equal the truth. Facts have already been given that prove you wrong and you keep using your opinion as fact. Distances on tour have multiple variables to include limited to a couple holes each tourney and club choice not factored in or course conditions.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime let’s see your scientific data that dispute ls the data given in the cited studies.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Name three Tour players who increased distance after starting a fitness regimen they weren’t doing before. You can’t.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Phil Mickelson

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jerry Kelly

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > David Duval

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Scott Mccarron

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It’s like talking to a wall. Mickelson- swing changes. Kelly- did not increase distance. Duval- admitted he doesn’t know if working out helped and his game fell apart right after. McCarron- his distance went up after recovering from injuries.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Not true~

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You can call us “old guys” on the PGA Tour Champions, but there are a lot of players out here who can still move the ball (we’d be in the top half of players on the regular tour in driving distance). Credit better equipment to a degree, but a big reason a lot of us aren’t losing much yardage off the tee is efficiency. It’s all about extracting the most we can from our swings—no matter how fast the club is moving. In 2018, I averaged 292 yards off the tee. That’s 12 yards longer than my average in 1996, when I won on the PGA Tour for the first time. And I got to 292 with a swing that’s two miles per hour slower than it was in ’96. Sure, my driver is way better now. But I’ve also been working on things with my technique that squeeze every yard I can out of my body. And if you incorporate them into your game, I promise you’re going to unlock more power. And who knows, maybe you’ll move back a set of tees. —

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > LOL!......Guess you know better than Scott Maccarron:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You do realize he is talking about swing technique here. And how he hits farther now compared to before the modern equipment advanced. Thanks for quoting something that supports my view.

> > > > >

> > > > > LOL!....Nothing supports your view..

> > > >

> > > > This thread has devolved into an argument about whether going to the gym has increased driver distance on the PGA Tour. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. If it has, the anti-roll back crowd is arguing that the USGA R&A should leave the equipment alone. If it hasn't, the roll back crowd is arguing that the equipment should be changed to fit the game to the courses.

> > > >

> > > > What is inarguable is that average driving distance has increased 40 yards in 40 years, as Titleist99 stated in the very first post on this thread.

> > > >

> > > > Are the anti-roll back folks going to maintain that with a 40 yard increase, the game is just fine?

> > >

> > > I think 25 more yards would be perfect. I’d like to see the classic courses played in a way that the designer never intended, and a bunch of people with Werther’s Original wrappers and used tissues in their pockets wring their hands over cold soup at Denny’s.

> >

> >

> > Let’s be really clear; you are not simply on record as saying new equipment (ball) restrictions “shouldn’t” happen. You have been saying that they “won’t” happen.

> >

> > I don’t care to debate you — with all of your weird, oblique, unserious, passive-aggressive personal insults — about what should happen. Because you are way too annoying for my taste.

> >

> > But on the matter of what WILL happen; all we need to do is wait. And we will see. You’ll be able to claim that what the USGA and R&A did was wrong. I will claim the opposite, and laugh with satisfaction as to what the new restrictions will entail. But the fact that they did something won’t be in any doubt.

> >

> > You know guys who are terrible about saying, “I told you so!”? I am the absolute worst you have ever encountered.

>

> That’ll show me, haha! Then, I’ll be sorry; I’ll see!

>

> Also, Pasatiempo. Dodge it again!

 

 

I see that someone flagged my comment aimed at you as “abuse.”

 

Previously, I hadn’t flagged any of your attacks as abuse. But now I’ve gone back to do that to yours. I guess that’s how this works.

 

“Abuse” = “I don’t like you.”

 

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @"15th Club" said:

>

>

> I see that someone flagged my comment aimed at you as “abuse.”

>

> Previously, I hadn’t flagged any of your attacks as abuse. But now I’ve gone back to do that to yours. I guess that’s how this works.

>

> “Abuse” = “I don’t like you.”

>

 

Well, I didn’t flag it, pard. But, I suppose if you’d like to take the time to flag all of my posts, I can’t stop you. Have yourself a day!

 

[rangersgoalie]

 

> >

>

> I don’t believe that a fit guy has gained anything measurable. Soft Phil gained. Rangers I don’t know personally. I’m sure he would say he got into better shape and then gained speed. My statement was that a fast - fit player isn’t going to add 10 mph by suddenly working out. And using long driver guys as examples is just apples and oranges.

>

> And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

>

> The answer is not black and white. And the question or argument is fruitless tangent ... a side track on this railroad to ****. lol.

 

I definitely improved myself. Grew up playing hockey and was decent. Pretty strong, but definitely improved myself from the starting point. My ability to rotate and use my strength was improved greatly. As we talk about fitness, and try to dismiss its' gains or not, I'd be pretty certain that if any player who is training and working hard STOPPED working out , they would see a drop off.

Just as handing any player a driver that was ill fitted

Or a ball that had the wrong characteristics

or mowing fairways at a higher hoc or softer conditions

etc.

 

the battle is, do tour players hit it too far for the good of the game?

We've all made our opinions clear

if they do, what is to be done?

pretty sure we've done the same

 

I believe players, architects, manufacturers, and possibly the ruling bodies are playing a seesaw match.

Course values in architecture bringing back more width and strategy (Doak, Coore, HAnse etc) are met with an ability of the best players to swing more freely. Strategy is also tougher as players can hit it not only further, but much higher. Courses then react adding length when they see this.

Understanding of the golf swing/training/optimization of equipment at a higher level than ever before

Analytics pushing players in different directions of strategy based on incredible data being provided

 

in a BUSINESS (which is not the game but like it or not a consideration) that is not incredibly healthy right now, the reaction to address it is likely the most important one incoming.

Do we radically alter the current construct of the game due to the image of the top players overpowering classic courses by separating them in the rules?

 

Do we pull the reigns on everyone? last I checked, the customers of golf courses are overwhelmingly not overpowering their home courses.

 

Or leave it alone? IMO, research, and a continued growth in understanding how to swing a club powerfully and efficiently, as well as bigger and more powerful players will continue a growth in distance.

 

As a former player and now teacher, I firmly believe the TOUR is NOT golf. I really do not care if they grow out of old great courses. I believe those courses are for their members or customers.

My members love the Old Course trips, and I've taken some to places like Cypress Point. I have never heard a member say on one of our trips that any great old course was too short fro them, which IS who they were built for IMO

 

Let the Tour have its events at Erin Hills, Whistling Straights etc.......Quit bastardizing the game in reaction to the outliers.

 

And LICC . we disagree.....:)

 

 

[Titleist99]

> @rangersgoalie said:

>

> > >

> >

> > I don’t believe that a fit guy has gained anything measurable. Soft Phil gained. Rangers I don’t know personally. I’m sure he would say he got into better shape and then gained speed. My statement was that a fast - fit player isn’t going to add 10 mph by suddenly working out. And using long driver guys as examples is just apples and oranges.

> >

> > And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

> >

> > The answer is not black and white. And the question or argument is fruitless tangent ... a side track on this railroad to ****. lol.

>

> I definitely improved myself. Grew up playing hockey and was decent. Pretty strong, but definitely improved myself from the starting point. My ability to rotate and use my strength was improved greatly. As we talk about fitness, and try to dismiss its' gains or not, I'd be pretty certain that if any player who is training and working hard STOPPED working out , they would see a drop off.

> Just as handing any player a driver that was ill fitted

> Or a ball that had the wrong characteristics

> or mowing fairways at a higher hoc or softer conditions

> etc.

>

> the battle is, do tour players hit it too far for the good of the game?

> We've all made our opinions clear

> if they do, what is to be done?

> pretty sure we've done the same

>

> I believe players, architects, manufacturers, and possibly the ruling bodies are playing a seesaw match.

> Course values in architecture bringing back more width and strategy (Doak, Coore, HAnse etc) are met with an ability of the best players to swing more freely. Strategy is also tougher as players can hit it not only further, but much higher. Courses then react adding length when they see this.

> Understanding of the golf swing/training/optimization of equipment at a higher level than ever before

> Analytics pushing players in different directions of strategy based on incredible data being provided

>

> in a BUSINESS (which is not the game but like it or not a consideration) that is not incredibly healthy right now, the reaction to address it is likely the most important one incoming.

> Do we radically alter the current construct of the game due to the image of the top players overpowering classic courses by separating them in the rules?

>

> Do we pull the reigns on everyone? last I checked, the customers of golf courses are overwhelmingly not overpowering their home courses.

>

> Or leave it alone? IMO, research, and a continued growth in understanding how to swing a club powerfully and efficiently, as well as bigger and more powerful players will continue a growth in distance.

>

> As a former player and now teacher, I firmly believe the TOUR is NOT golf. I really do not care if they grow out of old great courses. I believe those courses are for their members or customers.

> My members love the Old Course trips, and I've taken some to places like Cypress Point. I have never heard a member say on one of our trips that any great old course was too short fro them, which IS who they were built for IMO

>

> Let the Tour have its events at Erin Hills, Whistling Straights etc.......Quit bastardizing the game in reaction to the outliers.

>

> And LICC . we disagree.....:)

>

>

 

We are searching for a solution to a problem that don't exist......

[LICC]

> @rangersgoalie said:

>

> > >

> >

> > I don’t believe that a fit guy has gained anything measurable. Soft Phil gained. Rangers I don’t know personally. I’m sure he would say he got into better shape and then gained speed. My statement was that a fast - fit player isn’t going to add 10 mph by suddenly working out. And using long driver guys as examples is just apples and oranges.

> >

> > And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

> >

> > The answer is not black and white. And the question or argument is fruitless tangent ... a side track on this railroad to ****. lol.

>

> I definitely improved myself. Grew up playing hockey and was decent. Pretty strong, but definitely improved myself from the starting point. My ability to rotate and use my strength was improved greatly. As we talk about fitness, and try to dismiss its' gains or not, I'd be pretty certain that if any player who is training and working hard STOPPED working out , they would see a drop off.

> Just as handing any player a driver that was ill fitted

> Or a ball that had the wrong characteristics

> or mowing fairways at a higher hoc or softer conditions

> etc.

>

> the battle is, do tour players hit it too far for the good of the game?

> We've all made our opinions clear

> if they do, what is to be done?

> pretty sure we've done the same

>

> I believe players, architects, manufacturers, and possibly the ruling bodies are playing a seesaw match.

> Course values in architecture bringing back more width and strategy (Doak, Coore, HAnse etc) are met with an ability of the best players to swing more freely. Strategy is also tougher as players can hit it not only further, but much higher. Courses then react adding length when they see this.

> Understanding of the golf swing/training/optimization of equipment at a higher level than ever before

> Analytics pushing players in different directions of strategy based on incredible data being provided

>

> in a BUSINESS (which is not the game but like it or not a consideration) that is not incredibly healthy right now, the reaction to address it is likely the most important one incoming.

> Do we radically alter the current construct of the game due to the image of the top players overpowering classic courses by separating them in the rules?

>

> Do we pull the reigns on everyone? last I checked, the customers of golf courses are overwhelmingly not overpowering their home courses.

>

> Or leave it alone? IMO, research, and a continued growth in understanding how to swing a club powerfully and efficiently, as well as bigger and more powerful players will continue a growth in distance.

>

> As a former player and now teacher, I firmly believe the TOUR is NOT golf. I really do not care if they grow out of old great courses. I believe those courses are for their members or customers.

> My members love the Old Course trips, and I've taken some to places like Cypress Point. I have never heard a member say on one of our trips that any great old course was too short fro them, which IS who they were built for IMO

>

> Let the Tour have its events at Erin Hills, Whistling Straights etc.......Quit bastardizing the game in reaction to the outliers.

>

> And LICC . we disagree.....:)

>

>

 

Friendly disagreement is just fine! But it’s not just me that disagrees with you. The statistics disagree with you.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @rangersgoalie said:

>

> > >

> >

> > I don’t believe that a fit guy has gained anything measurable. Soft Phil gained. Rangers I don’t know personally. I’m sure he would say he got into better shape and then gained speed. My statement was that a fast - fit player isn’t going to add 10 mph by suddenly working out. And using long driver guys as examples is just apples and oranges.

> >

> > And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

> >

> > The answer is not black and white. And the question or argument is fruitless tangent ... a side track on this railroad to ****. lol.

>

> I definitely improved myself. Grew up playing hockey and was decent. Pretty strong, but definitely improved myself from the starting point. My ability to rotate and use my strength was improved greatly. As we talk about fitness, and try to dismiss its' gains or not, I'd be pretty certain that if any player who is training and working hard STOPPED working out , they would see a drop off.

> Just as handing any player a driver that was ill fitted

> Or a ball that had the wrong characteristics

> or mowing fairways at a higher hoc or softer conditions

> etc.

>

> the battle is, do tour players hit it too far for the good of the game?

> We've all made our opinions clear

> if they do, what is to be done?

> pretty sure we've done the same

>

> I believe players, architects, manufacturers, and possibly the ruling bodies are playing a seesaw match.

> Course values in architecture bringing back more width and strategy (Doak, Coore, HAnse etc) are met with an ability of the best players to swing more freely. Strategy is also tougher as players can hit it not only further, but much higher. Courses then react adding length when they see this.

> Understanding of the golf swing/training/optimization of equipment at a higher level than ever before

> Analytics pushing players in different directions of strategy based on incredible data being provided

>

> in a BUSINESS (which is not the game but like it or not a consideration) that is not incredibly healthy right now, the reaction to address it is likely the most important one incoming.

> Do we radically alter the current construct of the game due to the image of the top players overpowering classic courses by separating them in the rules?

>

> Do we pull the reigns on everyone? last I checked, the customers of golf courses are overwhelmingly not overpowering their home courses.

>

> Or leave it alone? IMO, research, and a continued growth in understanding how to swing a club powerfully and efficiently, as well as bigger and more powerful players will continue a growth in distance.

>

> As a former player and now teacher, I firmly believe the TOUR is NOT golf. I really do not care if they grow out of old great courses. I believe those courses are for their members or customers.

> My members love the Old Course trips, and I've taken some to places like Cypress Point. I have never heard a member say on one of our trips that any great old course was too short fro them, which IS who they were built for IMO

>

> Let the Tour have its events at Erin Hills, Whistling Straights etc.......Quit bastardizing the game in reaction to the outliers.

>

> And LICC . we disagree.....:)

>

>

 

Posts don’t get much better than that.

I’ve been lucky enough to play competitive golf (poorly) at a pretty high level, and I can’t recall a single tournament where the players at the top of the leaderboard played the course the way the every day members played it. No rollback of anything is going to make the game resemble that which was played in the past. I don’t think many people in favor of a rollback realize that any appreciable difference at the elite level would necessitate a very substantial intrusion into the every day game. Some don’t care, and that’s fine. But the very real effect on the rest of the game can’t be ignored.

 

Which, in part, is why, if the RBs think there is a problem, they should start with a 43” steel shaft mandate for their two tournaments. @ThinkingPlus is a great contributor and has cited physics on how the length might not make a huge difference, but I’d be interested to read her opinion on the steel issue. My driver ball speed goes down substantially with steel, and it doesn’t affect anyone else. Then again, I’m pretty much a washed up hack, so who knows?

 

 

[Titleist99]

Every sport evolve....golf is no different. When most of the old courses were built, the shafts were wooden, the balls were made of feathers and the course was mowed by sheep. Bunkers was dug by sheep to bed down at night.

Golf must evolve ...

[ThinkingPlus]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I don’t believe that a fit guy has gained anything measurable. Soft Phil gained. Rangers I don’t know personally. I’m sure he would say he got into better shape and then gained speed. My statement was that a fast - fit player isn’t going to add 10 mph by suddenly working out. And using long driver guys as examples is just apples and oranges.

> > >

> > > And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

> > >

> > > The answer is not black and white. And the question or argument is fruitless tangent ... a side track on this railroad to ****. lol.

> >

> > I definitely improved myself. Grew up playing hockey and was decent. Pretty strong, but definitely improved myself from the starting point. My ability to rotate and use my strength was improved greatly. As we talk about fitness, and try to dismiss its' gains or not, I'd be pretty certain that if any player who is training and working hard STOPPED working out , they would see a drop off.

> > Just as handing any player a driver that was ill fitted

> > Or a ball that had the wrong characteristics

> > or mowing fairways at a higher hoc or softer conditions

> > etc.

> >

> > the battle is, do tour players hit it too far for the good of the game?

> > We've all made our opinions clear

> > if they do, what is to be done?

> > pretty sure we've done the same

> >

> > I believe players, architects, manufacturers, and possibly the ruling bodies are playing a seesaw match.

> > Course values in architecture bringing back more width and strategy (Doak, Coore, HAnse etc) are met with an ability of the best players to swing more freely. Strategy is also tougher as players can hit it not only further, but much higher. Courses then react adding length when they see this.

> > Understanding of the golf swing/training/optimization of equipment at a higher level than ever before

> > Analytics pushing players in different directions of strategy based on incredible data being provided

> >

> > in a BUSINESS (which is not the game but like it or not a consideration) that is not incredibly healthy right now, the reaction to address it is likely the most important one incoming.

> > Do we radically alter the current construct of the game due to the image of the top players overpowering classic courses by separating them in the rules?

> >

> > Do we pull the reigns on everyone? last I checked, the customers of golf courses are overwhelmingly not overpowering their home courses.

> >

> > Or leave it alone? IMO, research, and a continued growth in understanding how to swing a club powerfully and efficiently, as well as bigger and more powerful players will continue a growth in distance.

> >

> > As a former player and now teacher, I firmly believe the TOUR is NOT golf. I really do not care if they grow out of old great courses. I believe those courses are for their members or customers.

> > My members love the Old Course trips, and I've taken some to places like Cypress Point. I have never heard a member say on one of our trips that any great old course was too short fro them, which IS who they were built for IMO

> >

> > Let the Tour have its events at Erin Hills, Whistling Straights etc.......Quit bastardizing the game in reaction to the outliers.

> >

> > And LICC . we disagree.....:)

> >

> >

>

> Posts don’t get much better than that.

> I’ve been lucky enough to play competitive golf (poorly) at a pretty high level, and I can’t recall a single tournament where the players at the top of the leaderboard played the course the way the every day members played it. No rollback of anything is going to make the game resemble that which was played in the past. I don’t think many people in favor of a rollback realize that any appreciable difference at the elite level would necessitate a very substantial intrusion into the every day game. Some don’t care, and that’s fine. But the very real effect on the rest of the game can’t be ignored.

>

> Which, in part, is why, if the RBs think there is a problem, they should start with a 43” steel shaft mandate for their two tournaments. @ThinkingPlus is a great contributor and has cited physics on how the length might not make a huge difference, but I’d be interested to read her opinion on the steel issue. My driver ball speed goes down substantially with steel, and it doesn’t affect anyone else. Then again, I’m pretty much a washed up hack, so who knows?

>

>

 

Steel shafts in the longer clubs could have an impact, however, steel has never been optimized for longer clubs either. It comes down to weight really. You would have better luck mandating weight rather than material. Even so, elite players are all pretty strong these days. I expect they would find a way to keep the speed near current levels.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I don’t believe that a fit guy has gained anything measurable. Soft Phil gained. Rangers I don’t know personally. I’m sure he would say he got into better shape and then gained speed. My statement was that a fast - fit player isn’t going to add 10 mph by suddenly working out. And using long driver guys as examples is just apples and oranges.

> > > >

> > > > And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

> > > >

> > > > The answer is not black and white. And the question or argument is fruitless tangent ... a side track on this railroad to ****. lol.

> > >

> > > I definitely improved myself. Grew up playing hockey and was decent. Pretty strong, but definitely improved myself from the starting point. My ability to rotate and use my strength was improved greatly. As we talk about fitness, and try to dismiss its' gains or not, I'd be pretty certain that if any player who is training and working hard STOPPED working out , they would see a drop off.

> > > Just as handing any player a driver that was ill fitted

> > > Or a ball that had the wrong characteristics

> > > or mowing fairways at a higher hoc or softer conditions

> > > etc.

> > >

> > > the battle is, do tour players hit it too far for the good of the game?

> > > We've all made our opinions clear

> > > if they do, what is to be done?

> > > pretty sure we've done the same

> > >

> > > I believe players, architects, manufacturers, and possibly the ruling bodies are playing a seesaw match.

> > > Course values in architecture bringing back more width and strategy (Doak, Coore, HAnse etc) are met with an ability of the best players to swing more freely. Strategy is also tougher as players can hit it not only further, but much higher. Courses then react adding length when they see this.

> > > Understanding of the golf swing/training/optimization of equipment at a higher level than ever before

> > > Analytics pushing players in different directions of strategy based on incredible data being provided

> > >

> > > in a BUSINESS (which is not the game but like it or not a consideration) that is not incredibly healthy right now, the reaction to address it is likely the most important one incoming.

> > > Do we radically alter the current construct of the game due to the image of the top players overpowering classic courses by separating them in the rules?

> > >

> > > Do we pull the reigns on everyone? last I checked, the customers of golf courses are overwhelmingly not overpowering their home courses.

> > >

> > > Or leave it alone? IMO, research, and a continued growth in understanding how to swing a club powerfully and efficiently, as well as bigger and more powerful players will continue a growth in distance.

> > >

> > > As a former player and now teacher, I firmly believe the TOUR is NOT golf. I really do not care if they grow out of old great courses. I believe those courses are for their members or customers.

> > > My members love the Old Course trips, and I've taken some to places like Cypress Point. I have never heard a member say on one of our trips that any great old course was too short fro them, which IS who they were built for IMO

> > >

> > > Let the Tour have its events at Erin Hills, Whistling Straights etc.......Quit bastardizing the game in reaction to the outliers.

> > >

> > > And LICC . we disagree.....:)

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Posts don’t get much better than that.

> > I’ve been lucky enough to play competitive golf (poorly) at a pretty high level, and I can’t recall a single tournament where the players at the top of the leaderboard played the course the way the every day members played it. No rollback of anything is going to make the game resemble that which was played in the past. I don’t think many people in favor of a rollback realize that any appreciable difference at the elite level would necessitate a very substantial intrusion into the every day game. Some don’t care, and that’s fine. But the very real effect on the rest of the game can’t be ignored.

> >

> > Which, in part, is why, if the RBs think there is a problem, they should start with a 43” steel shaft mandate for their two tournaments. @ThinkingPlus is a great contributor and has cited physics on how the length might not make a huge difference, but I’d be interested to read her opinion on the steel issue. My driver ball speed goes down substantially with steel, and it doesn’t affect anyone else. Then again, I’m pretty much a washed up hack, so who knows?

> >

> >

>

> Steel shafts in the longer clubs could have an impact, however, steel has never been optimized for longer clubs either. It comes down to weight really. You would have better luck mandating weight rather than material. Even so, elite players are all pretty strong these days. I expect they would find a way to keep the speed near current levels.

 

Interesting, thanks!

So I didn’t solve golf, haha!

 

 

[bigred90gt]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @bigred90gt said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > >

> > > And for a counter point. Rory hasn’t gained anything. He may have been faster as soft long haired Rory. And Phil gained speed and his dispersion went further south. So did he gain ? Not on the bottom line.

> > >

> >

> > I assume you glossed over this post, with a direct quote from Rory stating otherwise?

> >

> >

> > > @oikos1 said:

> > >

> > > #3 Rory Mcilroy.

> > >

> > > "If we then look at Mcilroy’s club head speed in 2009 we can see his average speed was 116.15mph, followed by 116mph in 2010. By 2012 his average club head speed had increased to 120.21mph. It is not unreasonable to assume this increase in speed is at least partially the result of the hard work Mcilroy has put in to the gym. In addition, multiple studies have investigated the effects of strength training on club head speed and found increases in the region 1.6-6.3% (1) which would correlate to what we have seen with Rory."

> > >

> > > "I just have to say, look at who I was and where I was as a golfer in 2010. I started training in September 2010 and look at me now. Since I started training I’ve won four majors and got to world number one. So it can only help.” - Rory McIlroy

> > >

> >

>

> Nah. I’m done. I’m going to the course to hit some high bombs and take some skin money.

>

 

I know we disagree on the whole rollback thing, but I do respect your opinion. Don’t be like the other guy that won’t offer anything to support his position. The information is there, it’s indisputable (backed up by distance stats and a comment from Rory himself). How can someone say he did not gain distance from working out, when he states it and the stats support the timeline? If you have a counter to it, I’d love to hear it.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @Titleist99 said:

> Every sport evolve....golf is no different. When most of the old courses were built, the shafts were wooden, the balls were made of feathers and the course was mowed by sheep. Bunkers was dug by sheep to bed down at night.

> Golf must evolve ...

 

Well, cue the people to tell you about the historical importance of courses that haven’t/couldn’t host professional tournaments since long before the ProV1. “Cypress Point/Seminole/Dump Dunes/Rec Park can’t host tournaments anymore because they are too short.” Ratliff Stadium can’t host the Super Bowl. Bummer.