Power on the PGA Tour......

[Titleist99]

For the one that think power is everything: None are prolific winners

 

 

 

Players with 300 or more drives 320 or more yards in a season on the PGA TOUR since 2003

 

 

Name Season Total Drives for 320+ Yards Wins

Cameron Champ 2018-19 345 1

Bubba Watson 2006 342 14

Brooks Koepka 2016-17 317 7

J.B. Holmes 2008 314 5

Tony Finau 2017-18 309 1

Hank Kuehne 2003 308 4

Kevin Tway 2017-18 307 2

 

 

Disclaimer: Some or all number may or may not be approx.

 

[Hawkeye77]

And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

[Krt22]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

 

There were most certainly stones left unturned in the previous 64 page long thread.

[Titleist99]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > >

> > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > >

> > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> >

> > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

>

> Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

>

> 

>

 

Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

[LICC]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > >

> > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > >

> > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > >

> > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> >

> > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> >

 

> >

>

> Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

 

Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

[Titleist99]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

 

Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

[Titleist99]

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > >

> > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > >

> > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > >

>

> > >

> >

> > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

>

> Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

 

Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

 

The cool thing about this thread is it asks a specific question. There have been some answers, but I don't think any (mine included) have been definitive. IDK if someone can come up with a list of venues that have been excluded solely due to lack of length. There are a lot more factors at play. Check out the picture of #16 Pasatiempo above. I don't see a lot of room for grandstands, lol.

[LICC]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> >

> > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

>

> Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

 

And a list of courses that are too short to provide a valid challenge to the PGA Tour pros shouldn't be too hard for a person of average intelligence to read.

[Titleist99]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

>

> The cool thing about this thread is it asks a specific question. There have been some answers, but I don't think any (mine included) have been definitive. IDK if someone can come up with a list of venues that have been excluded solely due to lack of length. There are a lot more factors at play. Check out the picture of #16 Pasatiempo above. I don't see a lot of room for grandstands, lol.

 

Infrastructure is a proper response. Some venue just don't have the room for parking grandstand etc... Some venues member just don't want to give up their golf course (most are private) . What I'm not hearing is "The golf course is to short".

 

People have not rendered anything but lip service when I ask for specific courses....I get crickets,

[bigred90gt]

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > >

> > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > >

> > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > >

>

> > >

> >

> > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

>

> Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

 

Saying a course 500 yards shorter than another would yield a winning score of -30 is pure conjecture. nothing factual or analysis based in that opinion.

[LICC]

> @bigred90gt said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> >

> > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

>

> Saying a course 500 yards shorter than another would yield a winning score of -30 is pure conjecture. nothing factual or analysis based in that opinion.

 

Some of it is analysis, some is speculation based on facts and relevant information. I can educate you on the difference if I must.

[oikos1]

The courses aren't obsolete because most fans enjoy seeing a course overpowered. Golf traditionalists may not like it, but just look at other sports today. Sure, a no-no, once it gets to the 7th becomes interesting, but most fans want to see homers and runs scored. Same in basketball, no one wants a pro game ending at 60-54 and football clearly is shooting for high scoring passing affairs.

 

The majority of golf fans just don't want to watch pro's grind it out every week. They want to cheer for birdies and eagles. They want to see if the impossible is possible, the potential for crazy good. Bring on the 54 in golf!

 

So no, golf courses aren't becoming obsolete. PGA Tour attendance has been on the rise the last three years. If anything, they are looking at ways to make the events bigger and will seek venues that allow for just that.

[Darth Putter]

When I think power, I think Fiore!

 

 


 

 


 

[Titleist99]

> @oikos1 said:

> The courses aren't obsolete because most fans enjoy seeing a course overpowered. Golf traditionalists may not like it, but just look at other sports today. Sure, a no-no, once it gets to the 7th becomes interesting, but most fans want to see homers and runs scored. Same in basketball, no one wants a pro game ending at 60-54 and football clearly is shooting for high scoring passing affairs.

>

> The majority of golf fans just don't want to watch pro's grind it out every week. They want to cheer for birdies and eagles. They want to see if the impossible is possible, the potential for crazy good. Bring on the 54 in golf!

>

> So no, golf courses aren't becoming obsolete. PGA Tour attendance has been on the rise the last three years. If anything, they are looking at ways to make the events bigger and will seek venues that allow for just that.

The masters is no

I total agree with your post. If you notice the scores at the recent PGA TOUR events have been hovering around -20, that's no accident because they know scoring sells. Even the Masters tournament is no longer concern with score, and that's by far is the best event.....IMO....LOL!

[LICC]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @oikos1 said:

> > The courses aren't obsolete because most fans enjoy seeing a course overpowered. Golf traditionalists may not like it, but just look at other sports today. Sure, a no-no, once it gets to the 7th becomes interesting, but most fans want to see homers and runs scored. Same in basketball, no one wants a pro game ending at 60-54 and football clearly is shooting for high scoring passing affairs.

> >

> > The majority of golf fans just don't want to watch pro's grind it out every week. They want to cheer for birdies and eagles. They want to see if the impossible is possible, the potential for crazy good. Bring on the 54 in golf!

> >

> > So no, golf courses aren't becoming obsolete. PGA Tour attendance has been on the rise the last three years. If anything, they are looking at ways to make the events bigger and will seek venues that allow for just that.

> The masters is no

> I total agree with your post. If you notice the scores at the recent PGA TOUR events have been hovering around -20, that's no accident because they know scoring sells. Even the Masters tournament is no longer concern with score, and that's by far is the best event.....IMO....LOL!

 

I think they have given up on maintaining par, but they still are paying attention to scores, and how holes are played. Hence them looking into lengthening the 13th.

[LICC]

> @LICC said:

> > @bigred90gt said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > >

> > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> >

> > Saying a course 500 yards shorter than another would yield a winning score of -30 is pure conjecture. nothing factual or analysis based in that opinion.

>

> Some of it is analysis, some is speculation based on facts and relevant information. I can educate you on the difference if I must.

 

You have two courses of similar rated difficulty when played at similar lengths. The second tier Tour pros come in at winning scores of -19. So what do you think the Koepka, JT, DJ, Rory players would score on the similarly difficult course that is 500 yards shorter? You don’t think the top players at 500 yards less justifies what amounts to not even three less shots per round?

[bladehunter]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> >

> > The cool thing about this thread is it asks a specific question. There have been some answers, but I don't think any (mine included) have been definitive. IDK if someone can come up with a list of venues that have been excluded solely due to lack of length. There are a lot more factors at play. Check out the picture of #16 Pasatiempo above. I don't see a lot of room for grandstands, lol.

>

> Infrastructure is a proper response. Some venue just don't have the room for parking grandstand etc... Some venues member just don't want to give up their golf course (most are private) . What I'm not hearing is "The golf course is to short".

>

> People have not rendered anything but lip service when I ask for specific courses....I get crickets,

 

I’d add the venue stipulation to the OP. I was compiling a list that didn’t include “because lack of parking. “. You had originally just ask about the players. Not the traveling circus too. I personally think that with today’s massive TV deals they could afford to have 2-4 events a year without many spectators , TV only wouldn’t kill the tour a couple times a year.

[marmooskapaul]

All of the dreary links courses in the "old country"...lol...especially Hoylake

[Titleist99]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > >

> > > The cool thing about this thread is it asks a specific question. There have been some answers, but I don't think any (mine included) have been definitive. IDK if someone can come up with a list of venues that have been excluded solely due to lack of length. There are a lot more factors at play. Check out the picture of #16 Pasatiempo above. I don't see a lot of room for grandstands, lol.

> >

> > Infrastructure is a proper response. Some venue just don't have the room for parking grandstand etc... Some venues member just don't want to give up their golf course (most are private) . What I'm not hearing is "The golf course is to short".

> >

> > People have not rendered anything but lip service when I ask for specific courses....I get crickets,

>

> I’d add the venue stipulation to the OP. I was compiling a list that didn’t include “because lack of parking. “. You had originally just ask about the players. Not the traveling circus too. I personally think that with today’s massive TV deals they could afford to have 2-4 events a year without many spectators , TV only wouldn’t kill the tour a couple times a year.

 

I'm not sure of what you meant about spectators but I think that the PGA Tour love massive crowds for its telecasts....hence it's affection of stadium courses. A perfect example is the Waste Management.

[Hawkeye77]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

>

> Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

 

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> >

> > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

>

> Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

 

No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

[Titleist99]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> >

> > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

>

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > >

> > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> >

> > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

>

> No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

 

Well, the goal post is always on rollers.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

[LICC]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > >

> > > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

> >

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > > >

> > > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> > >

> > > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

> >

> > No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

>

> Well, the goal post is always on roller.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

 

Your original question didn’t ask about the rotation for majors. It just asked about courses not long enough for Tour pros. Which I gave a list. If you are now just asking about major rotas, that question is not as relevant because many courses have spent lots of money to lengthen in order to stay feasible for majors.

[Man_O_War]

> @Soloman1 said:

> Are we getting paid for doing your research? :)

 

no but your payment is in heaven as i laughed by head off lol

[Man_O_War]

have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design

[Titleist99]

> @LICC said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > > >

> > > > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

> > >

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > > > >

> > > > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> > > >

> > > > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

> > >

> > > No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

> >

> > Well, the goal post is always on roller.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

>

> Your original question didn’t ask about the rotation for majors. It just asked about courses not long enough for Tour pros. Which I gave a list. If you are now just asking about major rotas, that question is not as relevant because many courses have spent lots of money to lengthen in order to stay feasible for majors.

 

Some say that the tour, with it's power game is making the old classic courses obsolete.....I simply want to know which courses and why....

[Titleist99]

> @Man_O_War said:

> have to say harbor town holds its own for being a relatively short course. It's all in design.

 

I agree, they don't have to be 7600 yards to be tough and entertaining....

[LICC]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > > > >

> > > > > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

> > > >

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> > > > >

> > > > > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

> > > >

> > > > No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

> > >

> > > Well, the goal post is always on roller.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

> >

> > Your original question didn’t ask about the rotation for majors. It just asked about courses not long enough for Tour pros. Which I gave a list. If you are now just asking about major rotas, that question is not as relevant because many courses have spent lots of money to lengthen in order to stay feasible for majors.

>

> Some say that the tour, with it's power game is making the old classic courses obsolete.....I simply want to know which courses and why....

 

The ones that added length, which is basically all of them, would have been diminished if they didn’t.

[Hawkeye77]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > > > >

> > > > > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

> > > >

> > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> > > > >

> > > > > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

> > > >

> > > > No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

> > >

> > > Well, the goal post is always on roller.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

> >

> > Your original question didn’t ask about the rotation for majors. It just asked about courses not long enough for Tour pros. Which I gave a list. If you are now just asking about major rotas, that question is not as relevant because many courses have spent lots of money to lengthen in order to stay feasible for majors.

>

> Some say that the tour, with it's power game is making the old classic courses obsolete.....I simply want to know which courses and why....

 

So not majors?

[bladehunter]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > > > And surprise, back to the same old stuff as before - it was done to death.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Does that mean that you won't be posting in my thread again? Hope so !!

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @Titleist99 said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept. I can't think of a single golf course that is too short to host a competition where the lowest number of strokes wins.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in fact most all of the tour golf courses are insufficient in length to test the world's best players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking this as well-known courses that wouldn't be able to provide a decent challenge for a PGA Tour event. Just looking at the Golf Digest Top 200 US:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cypress Point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fishers Island

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crystal Downs

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pacific Dunes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Camargo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maidstone

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Essex County

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myopia

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Montecito

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Creek

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eastward Ho!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fox Chapel

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fairfield

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I think every course on that list is long enough to host a stroke play event.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pasatiempo, at 6500 yards, hosts the Western with top DI players who bomb it. I played it the week before the tournament this year, and it was playing tough. I think only 13 players in the field were under par after three rounds. -3 got you a T7.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Big difference when it comes to the Tour. 6 par-4s under 400 yards. A par-5 at only 500 yards. Half these guys would be at 5-under every round on these holes alone.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ha! I'll go out on a limb and guess you've never played it. First, 6500 yards on the West Coast (the actual coast) isn't equivalent to 6500 yards on the East Coast. Not even close. Second, there's a bit more to the course than the length. If it had the room to host a PGA Tour event, I would bet my house that it wouldn't be the lowest winning score relative to par on tour.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I think you are really stretching on that one! These guys hit it really far and dial in their wedges really close on either coast. Whether it would be the lowest score to par on the whole Tour or not isn't the deciding factor. Whether it has enough length to provide enough of a challenge to be a respectable PGA Tour event is the question.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yeah, maybe. Still, I think it would hold up just fine because it's a great design. It's wild to see certain classic courses still be able to challenge elite level players, and others have to resort to massive changes.

> > > > > > > > > A Sunday pin on #16 at Pasatiempo would be incredible to watch. At 387, it would be iron-wedge, for sure, but that's not the challenge of the hole. If you'd ever tried to clip one off that downslope a precise distance, or be facing almost certain three-putt, you'd know what I'm talking about. Mackenzie's favorite hole on his favorite US course.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nice Post......you get the gist of the thread. Just putting that out there because the thread wreckers are coming....LOL!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Meaning what? I thought @"Ashley Schaeffer" and I had a good discussion on this with good points raised by both of us. Of course, my facts and analysis may counter your view, so let your freakout begin ... LOL!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Totally different discussion.....I simply asked for the names of the venues that a major tournament can't be played due to the power game PGA TOUR and explain why? That shouldn't be to hard for anyone with average intelligence......

> > > > >

> > > > > No, as usual, you didn't ask for anything even close to that. Pray tell where in the original post (goalposts, lol, which have been moved yet again) you were asking about hosting major tournaments.

> > > >

> > > > Well, the goal post is always on roller.....Just want to know the name of the obsolete golf course that is taken out of the rotation for major tournaments due to the power game of the PGA TOUR. easy peasy…….Some times it's not due to players length,

> > >

> > > Your original question didn’t ask about the rotation for majors. It just asked about courses not long enough for Tour pros. Which I gave a list. If you are now just asking about major rotas, that question is not as relevant because many courses have spent lots of money to lengthen in order to stay feasible for majors.

> >

> > Some say that the tour, with it's power game is making the old classic courses obsolete.....I simply want to know which courses and why....

>

> So not majors?

 

I can’t keep up either. A few min ago he included “ not enough infrastructure “. Now it’s “ majors rotation “?

 

The OP needs revision for whomever finds this next.

 

I suppose the all encompassing answer is any course that has lengthened in the last 20 years. If not for lengthening they’d likely be left out. Right ?