Power on the PGA Tour......

[bladehunter]

 

Lol. NEVer mind. My opinion on this is too harsh for posting. Erased it all.

[mahonie]

My take is that the modern game has become so boring and one-dimensional that it offers very little to hold the attention of players new to the game...at least in the UK. It really is dying over here. My club has gone from 650+ members to less than 300 in the last 10 years and that is a common theme across the board. The modern game just does not inspire kids to take up the game...particularly in the UK where the majority of the courses are over 50 years old and there is no space to make wholesale changes to layouts to accommodate the modern game.

[bladehunter]

Absolutely .... pitch and putts aren’t fun to really good players more than once a year. The challenge is the draw. And teenagers hit it so far these days. Shooting under par loses its luster for a kid when you do it 25 times a summer.

[oikos1]

Lol. Now we're getting "the game is too easy" and that's why golf is dying. You guys are too much.

[smashdn]

 

I was thinking more like evidence of the pros struggling with less than perfect greens. But I guess I did pick two public goat tracks didn't I?

[smashdn]

Are we talking about you and your game or "Power on Tour?" If distance on tour goes down you move them up a tee if you need to. If you are moving pro golfers up a tee my guess is the one further back was never really needed and you can save some time and money taking it out.

 

You don't have to take 5 iron off the tee on that dog leg. Bend it around the dogleg if you have the skill. Right now with the monster high flying drivers you can go over most trees unless they are hard up against the box. Tee it high let it fly.

[smashdn]

That was actually one of the reasons I started playing persimmons and old irons. At one particular course I play designed with high handicap players in mind there just isn't much challenge, mostly with driving. From the very back tees it is 6600 yards. #1 is driver pw, #2 is 3 wood as it is around 270 from the back, #3 is driver 8 or 9, #4 is driver flip wedge, #5 is a par five, driver 5 iron, #6 210 par three, #7 Driver 7i par five, #8 210 6i because as you go back in tee you go up a hill, #9 is driver pw. I want to say the front nine is like 3250 yards.

 

We play a scramble out there pretty regular and even just as two man teams you better be 30 or less or you don't have a chance. You have to eagle one of the par fives and you might get away with pars on the two par threes.

[mahonie]

Read into it what you will...the modern power game is boring, one-dimensional and means that I don’t need anything longer than 3-hybrid to play most courses... and I’m not that long. As I said, it’s half the game that it used to be....I feel a bit sorry for you guys who think that distance is the be all and end all.

[Titleist99]

I think that is the most ridiculous thing that I've every heard when people say golf is to easy. I'd like to know their Handicap.

[Titleist99]

You bring these courses to their knees.....may I ask your handicap?

[bladehunter]

Nope. Not on these doglegs. I’m taking 100 year old f oaks guarding the shoot all the way back to beside the tee box. Think 18 at Augusta but shorter to the dogleg at 90 degrees with a big tree guarding the bend to the the green. Doglegs here are all at or very near 90 degrees. You literally just hit it 230-250 to the dogleg. That’s all you got. Several places around here like that. I’ve played with the biggest of dogs and nobody is flying these trees. You’d have to hit it straight up 60 -70 feet 20 feet off the box and still fly it 275 to clear. Physically impossible.

[mahonie]

Pre-modern era I was a solid 18...playing the same courses 30 years on with a creaky back, dodgy knees and failing eyesight, I’m playing off 11 with a pretty crap wedge game. I know my scoring is limited by my skill but when I don’t need anything more than 3-hybrid and still shoot 7 shots better than when I was at my physical best it shows how much easier the game is.

[LICC]

There is no good reason whatsoever to think that pros today would hit persimmon woods better than pros of years ago. Stop with the Trackman being some magical thing. Pros of years ago could evaluate their ball flights and make adjustments.

[bladehunter]

I love this topic ( and hate it) and bring it up without giving my opinion a lot in person. And I hear this ^ said many Many times whne people aren’t guarded against the idea of rollback. They mention to me time and time again “ I hit it farther now than I did in my 30s. And my handicap is lower ( or more consistently lower ) than its ever been “. These are people 45-65 ish.

 

You may argue that this is a good thing. And I’ll listen to that idea. But. I just cannot buy the argument against the fact that reasonably decent players hit it farther and generally play better than they’ve ever done. It’s the truth. Are we going to now flip the Anti rollback argument on its head and claim that the game isn’t easier ? If it’s not why does anyone object ?

[LICC]

I LOVE that last idea!

If they held majors at any 6500 yard course, after about the third -30 or lower winning score, ratings would dwindle

[LICC]

Tour pros would be shooting 55 or better on an average 6300 yard muni with greens running at 7 stimp

[LICC]

6600 is plenty long for an average recreational player who probably drives it 220-230.

[oikos1]

I think we would have to take "easier" as a relative term. Obviously, scoring has gone down on the PGA Tour over time so one could make the argument that overall scoring has become easier. It's still lowest score to win though so I don't know if that has become any easier. I don't know if you could say the same as to the competitive nature of the tour as compared to the 50's, 60's and 70's as being easier. And as for ams, technology has certainly made the game more enjoyable. And if having a big headed driver means someone can play once a week and not have to practice as much if using persimmon, I think most in the golf industry and most weekly players would say that's a good thing for the game of golf.

 

As for the game being to easy for youngsters starting out, I would like to see at least one published article that shows the game being "too easy" as the reason young kids don't want to play. I've never heard that as a reason until today.

 

[bladehunter]

Ok. Now that wee have an accord on that.

 

Can we also agree that there is a line ( a wide blurry one ) where this help will help some enjoy the game more than It will enhance enjoyment for others ? As in the guy hitting the middle of the face is already enjoying things like the person who is seeing help is Now .

so if we agree on that ( I assume we will ) then how do we reconcile some players getting this extra “ enjoyment “ and some not ? Competition setting of course

 

 

[oikos1]

Are you saying you want everyone to enjoy the game equally?

[Titleist99]

I heard Ferherty today lobbying the USGA for a larger golf ball to rollback distance and make the old courses playable again....

What I would suggest to david and some on this board is to start their own tour with a larger ball, persimmon clubs with 250 yard drives...

sound like a ratings bonanza...sounds challenging, see how many pros you get to play them.

[pinhigh27]

what a strange view. people who don't golf have no concept for the dimensions golf.

 

golf is dying because it's super difficult, requires a ton of time to stay semi proficient, is expensive, uses a lot of land and resources to maintain the land. lot of things working against it.

[bladehunter]

I heard that too.

 

Its funny how when someone questions a authority figure in the game on swing theory’s or how to play etc , people go bonkers defending the legend. But here we have Jack Tiger , and a guy who’s covered more golf than anybody else alive besides Miller all say separately the ball needs to be looked at , and now those folks are “ old idiots “. How does that work?

[bladehunter]

I’m saying that it is unnatural and truly unfair in a competition , to have some people brought up to a certain level ( more enjoyment ) by artificial means

 

For rec play I don’t care care if they’d use 500cc drivers. But I don’t like That some see help and some Don’t in an open competition

 

Example. There’s a reason why you’ve don’t see pros playing a bag full of hollow irons , or 6 hybrids. Why you ask ? At speed those clubs are counter productive to dispersion and distance control in lower lofts. And that same situation exists with higher speed ams. So you’ll see them play more traditional clubs Based on that need ( consistency) and then you’ll see the slow guys using all the help they can get. And competing quite well with the help.

 

 

[bigred90gt]

So the possibility that their handicap is lower because they’ve been playing for 30 years just doesn’t make enough sense? It’s all equipment making the game too easy?

 

lol

[bigred90gt]

Wow. King of speculation strikes again!

[bigred90gt]

No no no, it’s dying because there’s no challenge anymore (says the guy who has gone from 18 handicap to 11 in 30+ years of playing the game).

 

if a person hasn’t gone from bogey golf to single digits at minimum, I’d say there’s plenty of a challenger

[bladehunter]

That’s just the point. If it’s not equipment , then how is equipment making the game more enjoyable ( as already agreed upon )? And why the pushback on an equipment rollback. ? Surely if equipment isn’t the reason , a rollback won’t matter.

[Titleist99]

You are absolutely correct.....Yet we constantly hear nonsense about golf being to easy....LOL!

In all my years never once have I heard a kid say "this game is to easy" or "I make to many birdies"

Some on this board wants to make golf harder....because they seen a Touring pro on TV make it look easy....LOL!

[bigred90gt]

I’m not saying equipment doesn’t help, only a fool would make that argument. But why rollback progress? Even with modern equipment, the game is plenty hard. If it weren’t, we’d all be making a run at the tour.

 

that said, someone who says the game is too easy because of equipment, and has only reduced their handicap 7 strokes in 30+ years, and is still double digit, really just doesn’t have an argument to get on board with.