Reed or Phil... Who's Was Worse???

[A.Princey]

Given Reed's polarizing nature from the get-go, is he receiving too harsh a judgement given his most recent rules infraction?? I mean look at Phil from Shinnecock, his spaghetti scooping putt-back is surely the more flagrant and disrespectful act, right? Does his likable nature as golf's protagonist let him off the hook more so than a person like bad-boy Reed? Which act demonstrated more lack of integrity/respect for the game? I think this is a fair question.

[kwcsports]

Both were bad but IMHO Reed was worse.

[Mikeski]

Like Rory kinda of sort of said, if it wasn't Reed then this would be as bad. I think Reed really didn't know that he wasn't allowed to do what he did being in a waste bunker but didn't admit to it. He didn't but blamed a camera angle. To me he grounded his club just like we all do in the fairway, in the rough and now in a penalty area.

I know when I was in a waste bunker I did the same thing. It wasn't to improve the lie but I acted just like I would anywhere on the course where you're allowed to ground the club. Now I know I was breaking a rule and I'm sure just like 99.9% of they golfers on this forum in the same situation.

As far as Phil, yes he gets a break because he is Phil.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I think one difference is that Phil made no attempt to deny it. In fact, he gleefully owned it, if I remember correctly (which was odd in itself).

Plus there's the fact that the greens on the third day at Shinnecock were a nightmare, and that wasn't just Phil who thought that: U.S. Open 2018—Players tear into USGA following Saturday's round: "They've lost the golf course" - Golf DigestThe thing that puzzled me about the Phil incident is that wouldn't he have had a better chance of posting a lower score on the hole if he had let his birdie putt run out? Possibly chip and putt for a triple, or quadruple at worst? Instead he cards a 10 with the penalty.

[anth]

Assuming Reed knew what he was doing - and it’s hard to argue against that assumption - his action was worse. He was trying to gain an unfair advantage over his competitors in a hidden or sneaky fashion. That involves a level of deviousness that was absent from Phil’s action because there was no intent to hide what he was doing.

[soregongolfer]

To me,Reed cheated and then denied it. Phil extended his middle finger to the USGA for tricking up the greens. Personally, I think Phil should have just walked off.

[Titleist99]

Reed disrespected himself, Mickelson disrespected the game and Matt Kuchar continue to disrespect both...

[Titleist99]

[MattyO1984]

Reed has to be considered worse than Phil’s. Reed was clearly trying to gain a competitive advantage, Phil was out of it and just being stupid, incredibly stupid at that but he was not trying to sneak one over the field, everyone knew what he was attempting to do.

[Vindog]

Honestly, I don;t even really care which was worse. I'm at the point now where they aren't golfers anymore, they are pro athletes and any one of them might try something to get by if they thought they could because of the large sums of money.

 

Reed's is looking to be worse because of how he handled the aftermath, but I'm more offended by Kuchar because it was allowed to continue. He cheated and got away with it. which is actually cheating. Reed at least suffered penalty.

[bladehunter]

Phil’s wasn’t an attempt to gain advantage. It was a political protest. Huge different thing. Cheating implies a perceived gain.

[MattyO1984]

Don’t give PReed ideas, he’ll be claiming that this was his plan all along.

[BeerPerHole]

I didn't see what Phil did as "disrespectful" mainly because it didn't include deceit. He just quickly did the math in his head and made a calculated move in plain sight. Reed, on the other hand, appears to have been trying to pull a fast one. Just my opinion...which is worth a cup of coffee if you add $2. I feel uneasy about what Reed did because, in my head, I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt with all the hate he's received. I watch this and go "ACK!"

[Vindog]

Phil would have saved himself a stroke by letting the ball settle at the bottom, taking an unplayable lie and proceeding under S&D

[DFS PFD]

Did Phil deny it initially? Nope. Reed tried to blatantly lie.

[JCass_MONEY]

I'm with the majority here when I say Patrick Reed committed a way more serious ace.

[Warrior42111]

Phil just used the rules to his advantage, albeit he incurred the penalty he readily said I did it and why. Patrick even if at the time was unknowingly breaking a rule had multiple times to even just say looking at the tape yup you're right, and this wouldn't be a topic.

I coach youth football at this is probably the biggest thing I try to instill on them as a life lesson, that it is ok to make a mistake or a penalty, just admit it and go on and keep playing your best.

[HitEmTrue]

He did some bad math in his head. Like @Vindog said, stroke and distance would have been better.

[Philomathesq]

This. Phil did nothing to hide his actions; he wanted to give a big middle finger to the USGA. Phil also made no attempt to deny it and admitted it after the fact.

Another thing that should be pointed out in this specific comparison is where the players were in the standings at the times of their actions. Phil had no chance to win when he broke the rules. I can all but guarantee that if Phil were at the top of the leaderboard on that green, there is no way he violates any rules. PReed, on the other hand, was the leader (I believe... he was definitely in the top three) when he decided to break the rules. To me, that is hugely important. PReed was trying to gain an advantage to win, Phil was simply trying to make a political statement and stop the bleeding.

I'm not advocating for ever breaking the rules, but it is one thing to break the rules when you are completely out of it, and a whole other ball game when you break the rules in order to stay atop, or get to the top of, the leaderboard.

[BeerPerHole]

I didn't say he was using the same math you or I would have. And, after that sucker rolled down the hill it wasn't going to be a sure thing. But...why split hairs over this?

[HitEmTrue]

Certainly not worth a big conversation....but at the time, Phil seemed to be proud of himself in the way he took advantage of the rules. Playing again from the same place (stroke and distance) would have been the smart move. But that possibility went out the door once he swiped at the moving ball.

[bullie76]

Reed. Phil was a fit of frustration like Daly back in the day. It was a dumb move for sure by Phil and I'm not a big fan of his. But Reed's was much worse.

[mackepa]

Like others have said I have way more of a problem with Patrick Reed's actions compared to Phil's. Reed clearly tried to flat out cheat and denied that he did so after the fact. Phil was just giving a middle finger to the USGA.

[dpb5031]

Phil got frustrated, lost his composure, and did something really stupid. He exacerbated the situation by making some dumb & silly post-round comments trying to explain his actions. Still, as bad as it made him look, it wasn't cheating.

Reed's actions are much more damning. Makes ya wonder how many times he's done something similar in a waste area when the cameras aren't zoomed in. It certainly looked as if he improved his club's path to the ball, and it further seems practically impossible that he did so unknowingly. It's not like it was just an inadvertant grain of sand or two... it was a substantial amount. In my view, that qualifies as intent to cheat/gain unfair advantage over the field.

[Z1ggy16]

While Phil's was intentional, his came from a place of frustration and probably also a little bit of his "prankster"-ish personality. I was actually there the day Phil did that and most people could be heard talking about it... almost nobody was saying bad things about it or Phil. I think a lot of us there sitting at 18 and watching Brian Harmon 4 putt or seeing Furyk practically breathe on a downhill putt and watch it go 20 feet kind of let us have a bit of sympathy about the whole thing. Reed's violation was almost certainty on purpose and it was meant to be deceitful and it was NOT meant to be seen. If he even said sorry (pretty sure he didn't or wouldn't) it would only be because he got caught.

TLDR; Reed's was worse.

[MadGolfer76]

Phil was definitely giving the middle finger to the USGA, who had it coming for a number of reasons.

Reed was giving a middle finger to the rest of the field.

 

Even if he couldn't feel the sand being brushed (which is crap) there is no way he isn't watching the condition of the lie change right before his eyes. Stuff like that should be a mandatory suspension for a period of time. Two stroke penalty is insufficient to what was happening, and a lack of consequence leaves the door open for it happening again.

[pinehurst]

I have been a Patrick Reed fan for a long time, but he really messed this one up with his post incident comments. He should have just said he didn't realize it, but deserved the penalty and left it at that.

[spbrooks]

For Reed to blatantly cheat any worse than he did he would've had to slip a tee under it! Phil was just disgusted with himself.

[Titleist99]

Phil should have been disqualified and escorted off the property by security. If Sergio was in the state he should have been deported back to Spain.

[Valtiel]

I agree with everyone regarding "Phil the frustrated goofball" vs "Reed the dishonest cheat".