How do you get "good" at golf?

[Hawkeye77]

Hmmmm . . . .

In reference to your next post after the above, you don't have to pay to get GIR and scrambling stats - pencil and scorecard (or whatever kind of sheet you want to put together for that) - strange response. Cobra driver so you can get an app to track your driving? Think about that ------- a lot revealed there.

Yes, a couple of folks suggested negative outcomes but you've got all the time in the world and could likely make a lot of progress in a very short time. My greatest improvement came after the age of 55 and I've played all my life. Some swing changes, better iron play, short game, short game, short game and a bit of putting and there you are.

Did you and do you have a real, official handicap per whatever system is used in Canada? Need the proper baseline.

Your continued reference to feeling compression makes no sense - maybe what you think causes "compression" or how you get it contributes to your swing issues, as you describe them. Find a teacher!

Your suggestion now you only engage in focused practice is completely at odds with your first post (i.e., hitting balls until your hands hurt). But it still assumes you know what is happening when you practice.

Get some eyes you trust on your swing, and take some time over the winter and once you can start playing and practicing to engage in some real reflection on what needs work and why - I think you need a lot more accurate insights into your own game than I'm sensing you really have at this point.

No reason you can't get to a 5 if you were once a 6, and even if you weren't, IMO. Maybe this year, maybe next, maybe 20 years from now, who knows.

[WristySwing]

Thank you for your support. What I was referring to was I don't have score cards I only logged it into the app. I didn't really keep a score this year, and don't remember what I shot each of the 15 or so rounds I played. It will be something I will do for 2020. We have the same system, it's just a Golf Canada handicap. According to the Grint, which is supposedly USGA legal, I am a 9.5 right now with a scoring average of 83. I know a handicap for Golf Canada is based on your best 10 out of your last 20 rounds, I'm sure it is the same for the rest of the world. So for me to have 1 round where I broke 80 and a couple of 80s right on the nose kind of makes sense putting me at a 9-10, but I am more interested in scoring average as I think that is a better measure of one's ability vs. what you shot on a good day once and a while.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Your score can be misleading. You can have a great 80 or a horrible 80. A great 80 would be you were in the junk all day but chipped or puttrc out your backside to save the round. The opposite could be true which gives you the bad 80. Or you just had a few blow up holes and still survived to shoot 80. My best round this year was a 69 and took a FOUR PUTT double bogey.

[Hawkeye77]

Only referenced the official handicap to make sure you are apples to apples with handicap reference as you progress, so you've got that covered.

Good news is you've got all winter to analyze. But if you are a 9, based on what you've indicated, you can get to a 4 or a 5 at some point. No doubt, IMO.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Scoring average is really tough, because most people have blowup rounds. HC is potential with your last 8 best scores averaged now.

Make it easier on yourself.

[Socrates]

Another problem is, nothing ever seems to stick. When I was taking lessons with Steve (the pro I really clicked with), I could hit a 6i in the middle of the club 80% of the time and have a shot cluster that looked like you could lay a blanket over it on the mat indoors. Outside, it was just as good. I took perfect divots, predictable baby draws. I actually had people stop and watch me at the range. However, it never sticks on the course. My wheels fall off.

 

Sounds similar to what I went through for about 2 years. I would see my instructor and hit it perfectly inside of 5 minutes. A day later it might be just as good or absolutely no clue. I persevered and over the course of 1-2 years of beating me about the head about the same things, it started to click for longer periods. I made a decision that he had told me all he could and I knew what he wanted so I had to take that info and find a way to incorporate it as best as I could and make it work on the course. I reduced the range time and increased the playing time while keeping in mind all the things we talked about. I might spend 15 minutes on the range going over those keys and then go play. And it really wasn't very many things. Posture, address position, takeaway and rotation through the ball. The object has and will be, to create a solid strike with little to no sidespin on the ball.

Is my swing perfect? Not a chance, but I keep the swing simple and try to eliminate the things that create bad swings and bad results. The most important thing is that the message never changed in the last 3 years. It seems to me that you keep "changing the channel" and getting a different message or working on something else. Figure out what Steve was telling you (it obviously worked) and do only that.

[Nard_S]

"When I do practice it is usually with a 6i, 8i, and wedge and I just try to get that feeling of compression and if it is roughly online.-WS"

 

Your scoring, practice habits and goals are similar to mine. I'm full Range Rat and play less than 20X per year. Find it a costly mistake to "improve swing" with mid and short irons alone. Much better is to improve with Driver and Wedge, to apply better habits to both at the same time or in lock step with #7i.. Bulk of scoring is dictated by tee out and green back play, so practice should reflect that reality. Improvements coming from long and short end of bag is better and more consequential to score.

Mentally, making practice & play symbiotic, where they can interface easily should be a higher goal. This is more opaque and difficult to convey but for me it means, consciously I'm observing and listening a lot more and allowing body greater reign in the doing. The "doing", ideally has as much variability in practice as it does in play. So mixing up clubs and objectives a lot even if you're working on "one thing" becomes necessary. This structure of self awareness takes practice too. Tuning into what is actually going on while executing an unencumbered swing is a skill that requires development.

[TimK1]

If short game wasn't important the pros would not spend so much time on it. I agree though that the goal is to hit more greens. That is my first priority but the reality is I just don't. Not that I don't try and some days I have hit 15 or 16 greens but on average it is around 12 or 13.

34 putts is still less that two per hole. 18 holes X 2 = 36 putts. That's if you hit every green and two putt. I try and figure where I can miss it to give myself the easiest up and down. I hit 85 percent of my fairways last year but my home course is an easy driving course. The second shots are the toughest on my home course. Most the misses are short or long. Most of the greens have bunkers left or right of the hole. I think there are only two holes with a bunker in front or back of the green. They keep the course soft so running up shots to open greens is not going to happen. There is no fairway roll either.

That is why even a 2 handicap is deceiving because I know this course like the back of my hand. I'll go up to a 5 or 6 on a course I don't play as much or a new one.

If your good enough to shoot under 90 which 90 percent of the golfing population are not and half of that cannot break 100, you are not that far off if you are shooting in the 80's. Of course always try to improve your greens in reg but getting up and down more often will get you under 80.

[SNIPERBBB]

Just because the pros do it, doesnt necessarily mean you should do it unless you're already at or very close to that level. At that level, loosing a stroke a round from a poor short game is the difference between winning and 4th place or flat out missing the cut. They dont have much room to improve on the rest of their games. For the rest of us, there's generally a lot more low hanging fruit to pluck with mid-long game than with the short game.

[TimK1]

I just saw a video made by Pat Perez and he said, if most Am. worked on there short games they would improve by 8 to 10 strokes alone just doing that. I understand living in a cold climate that the golf season is so short that something has to give. I live in the northeast and our golf season is very short. 5 months of good golf and two months of slop and cold and five months where you can't play at all.

I'm hopefully gonna move in the next five years to a warmer climate. I won't know what to do with a full 12 month season . It would be nice not to cram in a 12 month season into five months.

[Hawkeye77]

But ........... is the medium to long game going to be as easy to get better at vs. short game?

 

It is so individual, but serious gains in ballstriking can be a lot more challenging than getting some solid short game fundamentals and putting fundamentals sorted out.

 

My recent handicap gain/stability is mostly short game and putting so much better last season and overall. If I want to get a couple more shaved off, yep, more consistent tee shots and more consistent long game need to happen, and will be working on them but those gains are very hard fought for me.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

This just doesn’t seem possible? 8 to 10 strokes from my game would make me a +3 HC?!? I doubt this number. Might be a few strokes at most with tons of practice? Right, there’s your answer why there are so few good players. Medium to long game are really difficult skills to acquire.

[SNIPERBBB]

Just depends on where your at now with each phase of the game. Its the law of diminishing returns. Lets say we have the stages of 15%, 30%, 45%, 60%(#1 on tour for scrambing was 67%, 188th was 51%). It takes almost no practice to reach 15% scrambling(1.8 successful scramble out of 12), youll have to put in a decent amount of work to make 30%(3.8 of 12), at 45%(5.4/12) your spending a few hours a few week to get there. at 60%+(7.2/12) your spending a few days/evenings/mornings doing nothing but chipping.

ai would think most people could figure out or with a good instructor or your a good self-taught student that's honest with yourself, I think you can make more gains as most ams with your irons than with the wedges in those time frames as I would rather prevent having to use the short game outside of on par 5's than having to use the short game.

 

[TimK1]

Ok but let's face reality. Most people only play once a week if they are lucky. Let's say they are decent enough to shoot low 90's but want to shoot mid 80's and would be over the moon with that. If you have very limited time, which most adults have, unless your retired or a young person what is easier to lower your score, trying to grind on the range for hours on end to improve your long game or spending 100's of dollars on lessons or spending 30 minutes a day learning to chip, pitch and putt better.

That is much more realistic for the average joe golfer which most people are. I have a lot more time to work on everything but that is rare. When your time is limited you have to pick your poison and improving your short game is much easier and cheaper.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Seems like to scramble at that high a level from even 20-30 yards would take as much work as hitting a small bucket of balls? Much of the swing work can be done during breaks at work. Just practicing form or something like that?

[SNIPERBBB]

 

I just get kinda nervous when people say, practice short game by rote like it's the be all, end all of getting better at golf. Like people saying practice makes perfect, I get the idea but the application in the real world doesn't work as there is always more to the story.

Yes if you can't get on the green from inside 50 yards majority of the time, you probably need to spend some long hours at a short game facility or on an empty course

 

Another thing is, I really like taking pressure off yourself well before you get to the green. Being able to get up and down from everywhere is nice but when you're doing it 10+ times a round it can really work on you mentally, especially in competition golf. My philosophy is if you can GIR, a horrible stroke at worst will give you a bogey. You miss the green, horrible stroke and it's a miracle if bogey is the worst you make.

[RichieHunt]

Being a range rat isn't a good way to go for most of us. Bryson DeChambeau can do it, although he makes his training extremely difficult so when he plays it's easier than his range sessions. But for most of us we really need to get the feel of playing out on a real course.

 

Getting consistent practice in almost every day is helpful. Even if you are doing work in your house for 5 minutes in front of a mirror every day, that will beat out practicing once a week for 5 hours.

 

Also, playing with better players can help give a sense of what you need to do in order to get better.

 

 

 

 

RH

[WristySwing]

 

I get what you are saying. I think the magic rule is that 150/160 yards and in is what sepatates the men from the boys, so to speak. If you can get a decent GIR (say 10-12 or so as you say) and combine that with some halfway impressive scrambling and/or short game skills you will have a really good chance at getting lower. Which is kind of a hybrid approach of what everyone is saying and I think it makes sense.

[platgof]

I gotta ask, are you now playing a harder golf course than before? Sometimes a tougher course can destroy you. I played today on a course and they set all the pins in really tough locations, and the greens are already hard as h.. Sometimes a different location can be too much to get used to. I really hate this course, and the kids gave me a gift card to it, dang.

[ToolManSam]

The unfortunate reality is that 99.9% of golf instruction sucks! That’s legit! IF you have ANY talent the average instructor will actually make you a much worse golfer

The vast majority of “teaching pros” will repetitively tell you to slow your swing down (even if you only swing a driver 90mph) yet put your swing beside a tour pro who swings in excess of 120mph. Yeah ??‍♂️

Even worse is when a teaching pro cannot justify their actions if a student questions their protocol. “JUST do as I say” blindly is not a trustworthy relationship. You NEED to trust your teacher and be the same very narrow same wavelength.. if not??? Forget it!

It’s extremely frustrating but fire anyone you don’t agree with right away (assuming you give them valid opportunity to answer your mindful questions) . You’re looking for that .01%

 

 

just MY opinion

IF you choose you need

[TimK1]

LOL

I couldn't agree more. There is probably 10 teachers that most people in this area know. Only two are legit. The other ones are a total scam. I have seen the lessons and those poor people will never ever get better but they don't know enough to question anything.

One of the two I almost worked with but when I inquired she said no. She said, I have seen your swing. Don't muck with it. I'll just screw you up. I never in my life heard anybody say that. I respected her for that and thanked her. I'm still lesson free after 40 years of golf.

[TimK1]

I never said it is a cure all. My thought process was that if your time is limited then I believe your better off working on your short game.

[HackDaddy360]

Lots of good thoughts here and I agree with the comment to play more. I know the dead horse has been beat on that one already but think of it this way...

PLAY!

Have fun. Love the game. Enjoy the fresh air. See what’s to be seen. Enjoy it!

the key to your improvement lies in your mental game as I read it. You can practice until you’re blue in the face but I’d you’re heads in the way you’ll become a range pro - which isn’t your aim.

See a sports psychologist or try reading a few books on the mental side of golf. The Rotella series are still the best IMO. You should read all of them. You have to get out of your own head and begin to set proper expectations for yourself and start down the path of getting to the root of your issues - which I don’t think will be overcome by hitting range balls alone.

[llewol007]

Depends what you want out of it. I rarely get to the range but I shoot in the high 70’s and that for me is fine. Question for you is your ultimate goal. If you want to shoot scratch your gonna have to commit more time transitioning what you have learned or corrected on the range and apply it to the golf course. I for one love course practice rounds because beating ball after ball after ball at the same flag doesn’t do much for muscle memory. If you have swing flaws, get some lessons. If not course management is huge. If your swing is sound, that’s what I would focus on. If it needs tweaking then get some lessons focusing exactly on that and apply your range time to a 9 hole round and learn to play the course.

[A.Princey]

Be great from 30y and in, and you'll be good on your worst days. This includes having a variety of shots/techniques that allow you to tackle different lies and situations. Develop two solid ways to hit your wedges partial distances and practice putting a ton. You'll get there.

 

For me, a huge improvement came when I started "flighting" partial shots using a pretty narrow stance, all but eliminating an unpredictable turn/backwing. I cannot tell you how many fat shots resulted when standing as I would for a full swing, attempting to hit it 50%. Also, hitting wedges with little to no wrist hinge, chipping aggressively as if they were very long putts gives you a controlled chipping method close to the green. All sorts of things like this, that take your mind out of the equation lets you "go after" a shot vs. take something off and feel like you must "control" tempo. If your PW goes 120 full and you want to hit it 85, narrow your stance, choke down and take a slightly smaller backswing, but still go after it. Preparing for the shot should pretty much take care of the thought part, hitting it next should just be muscle memory from practice.

 

It's stuff like this that free's you up to tackle different scenarios with much less doubt and fear of failure.

[WristySwing]

 

Same course as the last 2-3 years. I periodically get to play some nicer, tougher tracks due to the people I know in the industry. The muni I am interested in joining this year will be tougher than the courses I play last year, but it always seems to play more similarly because the condition is always better so you aren't hammering 10 foot putts like they are 18 footers, and they actually have grass instead of mud and clay interspersed with a touch of seedlings.

Preach. I took some lessons with GolfTec last winter and I think it actually made my game worse. I lost about a club in distance, my swing felt stiff and mechanical, and now I am hitting extreme toe and thin shots that were definitely nowhere near as severe as before this. I have a naturally upright swing (typically shoulder/neck area at the top of my backswing) and my biggest issue is the stall and flip I have. I know the swing is all sequence and you need to build up to get rid of it through proper positioning elsewhere, but they were so focused on flattening out my back swing ala a one-planer like Baddeley and Kuchar it just didn't work and felt horrible. I already re-route flat and have a DJ-cup at the top, why do you want me flatter? I should have said something but thought I would "trust the process" as they say.

 

Luckily the pro I really meshed with is taking on a very small teaching role at a local driving range. I reached out to him after starting this thread and he told me he would be happy to start working with me again. My plan is to do just as you say and what was mentioned in that Malaska video that was linked above. Get the lesson, practice for 30 minutes or so and go out and play. Practice for a spell, then play. Seems to help everything "click" easier according to him, Hogan, and Nicklaus...they've made some decent jumps in ability I'd say.

[TimK1]

You can see from the comments how the short game, long game debates start.

The important thing is to make a plan of action and stick to it. However you decide to proceed. Figure out ways to measure your progress, without using the score. Example, let's say you were slicing the ball and wanted to stop doing that. If you do stop and can make a swing that doesn't slice on a regular basis then that is a good measure of progress.

Scores are a bad way to judge progress. You can be a very good player and have a bad round. That doesn't mean you are not good or need a swing overhaul. Eventually your scores will reflect the progress.

It's good advice to play more. Even if you think you suck you will improve just learning how to get the ball in the hole. Once you hit the course, the hardest thing for me is not to think about my mechanics and just play. If something is showing up with my ball flight I just try and go with it and finish the round. Once you try and make corrections during a round it usually goes from bad to worst.

[WristySwing]

I like this mentality! Thank you.

[juststeve]

To get good at golf identify your greatest weakness and work on that until it is no longer a weakness. Then move on to your new greatest weakness and repeat.

This is kinda hard to do because we all get positive reinforcement from practicing the shots we hit well, but that won't lead to rapid improvement.

 

Steve

 

 

[rich_s2]

You want to get better, there is only one way to do it imo. Try this:

1) Press reset mentally, forget what you think your problem is

2) Go play a round of golf with zero expectations

3) after the round, analyse every sub par shot as well as metal state during the round. Your game is a tree, you will easily see your low hanging fruit

4) go to the range and re-create these shots in your mind. Work on them until you can hit good shots somewhat consistently but make sure you re-create the shot/pressure each time you perform the shot. Be realistic, if you are 200 out and think you should hit the green over 50% of the time, you are not even close to realistic. You should get it close to the green and from there you should be able to get it up and down 1/3 of the time. If worse than 50%, work on that club, if over 50%, work on the short game shot that led you to not get up and down.

5) if your mental state is anything but focused on the shot at hand (score, negativity etc) fix this. You can do it on the range. Figure out what causes these mental lapses and re-create these situations on the range.

6) go play another round

7) rinse and repeat

 

I think a problem is that people think scratch golfers stick it to 5' every hole. The reality is that they are just OK at everything. If they were good at everything, they would be a plus. When I was in your shoes I got to play with some scratch guys and it was always the same. I did not even realize they had a decent round going until it was done. I figured they shot upper 70's/low 80's but they shot one or two over. They make mistakes just like I did but did not blow up mentally and had more skills to save par than I did. I have some friends with the most wonky swings you can imagine that are low single digits. My swing on film is horrible and I am close to scratch but I have a very strong mental game these days. Just keep pounding away at your low hanging fruit. If you need help with course management, have the best player you know caddy for you and do what he tells you. Sitting on a range hitting endless balls is not the answer. Last thing, Dan Carraher told me "get 1% better each practice session". This took a huge load off and gave me a attainable goal. You can do it