Manufacturer loft progressions make little sense

[Noodler]

The current trend of using larger loft gaps in the wedges and short irons and progressively smaller loft gaps as the clubs get longer, makes little sense to me. Having 5* gaps in the wedges and sometimes through short irons, 4* gaps in the mid-irons, and 3* gaps in the long irons doesn't seem to provide consistency in yardage gapping, and most importantly, the greater degree of yardage accuracy golfers need in their wedges and short irons.

I came away from a gapping fitting session yesterday even more bewildered by why the golf manufacturers are pushing large loft gaps in the wedges and short irons and having those loft gaps get progressively smaller as the clubs get longer. I have average swing speed (100 mph driver, 80mph 7 iron) and what I see in my gapping is almost exactly opposite of what I want. A recent article from Terry Koehler points out what I believe to be true; you want smaller yardage gaps in your wedges and short irons, while larger gaps are more "acceptable" as your clubs get longer because precision isn't needed as much. 10 yard gaps are great for the wedges and short irons while 15 yard gaps in the mid-irons, and even 20 yard gaps into the long irons and hybrids/fairways should be fine. But what I see in my gap testing with current industry "standard" loft progressions is almost directly opposite.

Some might blame the constant loft strengthening disease as creating this problem, but I'd rather not debate that as it's been done to death. This post is more "food for thought" for golfers as they consider the lofts on their wedges and irons. I have long played a 60-55-50-45 setup in my LW through PW, but am strongly considering moving to 58-54-50-46. Then I'm also looking at how to grow the loft gapping in my mid-irons into long irons from 4* and 3* to 5* and 4* respectively.

How is this loft gapping situation playing out for other golfers with average swing speed?

[jvincent]

@Noodler How is this loft gapping situation playing out for other golfers with average swing speed?

I am with you 100% on this and have been for a long time. I'd much rather make normal swings with my shorter clubs and have close gaps than trying to make 3/4 or 1/2 swings to adjust for distance.
My current setup at the bottom of the bag is 58-54-50-46 just like you are considering. My swing speeds are just like yours and it works great for me. My 58* with a full swing is a very consistent 90 yards and I get 10 yard gaps up to the 50.

[Sean2]

I have a 4º gap among all of my clubs. It's what I am most comfortable and consistent with (consistent being a bit of a relative term).

[Nessism]

I disagree with the assertion that 3-4-5 lofts are new. They are not. Check the specs for Ping Eye2's or Mizuno MP14's for example. I think it's a wonderful loft progression and it befuddles me why so many people want 4 degree steps, particularly in the short irons and wedges. That said, in the end it doesn't really matter all that much as long as you learn how far you hit each club.

[Noodler]

 

Terry K.'s point is that 5* loft gaps yield yardage gaps that are too large in the part of your bag where you need a greater degree of accuracy. For me, those 5* gaps yield 15 yard gaps between the wedges. In the mid-irons I have 10-12 yard gaps. The long irons (although I only play up to a #4) have less than a 10 yard gap. This gapping is at odds for where you would want more precise yardage control. Of course you can hit with partial swings and other methods to fine-tune the yardage for the swing, but it still doesn't really provide the obvious easy fix by altering the lofts. Trying to change the lofts after the fact (by bending) screws with the bounce on all the clubs. So that's why I really don't understand why the manufacturers all are heading this way (if they aren't already there). Give us tighter gapping at the bottom of the bag and bigger gapping at the top.

[GoGoErky]

It’s going to vary for every golfer. The slower speed guys tend to proper gapping in the groups I normally play with.

 

[third-times-a-charm]

Thats why I now do 5-9 sets instead of 4-pw. I usually get the MB/blade models in PW-AW and do 2 wedges after that. The new crazy lofts are different than 'traditional lofts'.

[GoGoErky]

What traditional lofts? They have increased every decade

[third-times-a-charm]

Thats a good point. I started playing in 2015ish so the Apex CF16 are what I am used to - its crazy but the majority of sets are now even stronger than that. 'Pro' sets are now those CF16 lofts. So , since thats what I'm used to thats what I try and stick to.

 

YMMV of course.

[Nessism]

Every shot inside about 80 yards is hit with less than a full swing, and there are a lot of them during a round, so I don't understand why people talk so much about full swing distance spread. To me it's just a matter of knowing your distances.

[ChipNRun]

If you worry about this, try the right iron models.
I play the Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten irons with KBS Tour 90 steel shafts. The loft gaps are 3i 21*, 4i 24* - with 4* loft gaps up through PW at 46*. I also have a CB Pro S 50* and 58* wedge, if I decide to bag them.
Also, take a look at the revived Hogan irons. All three of their iron models - PTX Pro, Ft. Worth and Edge - have a 4i at 22* up through a PW at 46* - all in 4-degree increments. From there, Equalizer wedges run from 48* to 62* in 2-degree loft increments.
And, @Nessism is correct on the 3-4-5 degree issue. The Maltby book on Golf Club Design, Fitting, Alteration & Repair has an appendix on club specs. It has figures on loft, lie and shaft length from the early 1970s up through late 1980s. Plenty of examples of 3* gaps in 2-3-4 iron area, expanding to 4* loft gaps in medium and short irons, and sometimes 5* gaps in wedges.

[J_Birdie]

LW 60-55-50-45-41-37-33-29-25-22 for me worked for best gappings for me

[St Jimmy]

Kind of off topic, but I wish they'd stick to the old numbers on the club.

A 20 degree 4 iron really annoys me as I try to put together a mixed setup between my CB57's and Hot Metal Pros.

If they just numbered it a 3, I wouldn't be forced with the dilemma of having two 4 irons in my bag and having my OCD go crazy.

[mxtitleistgolfer]

I understand the desire for uniformity or to see a linear progression, but at the end of the day I think chasing spec sheet perfection might be a rabbit hole. As long as each club goes the distance you need it to with a good ball flight, then it really shouldn’t matter if there’s a 2° gap or 6°. The stock lofts should be a starting point and then adjust accordingly. The change in bounce that accompanies the loft adjustment will usually be pretty hard to notice (as long as you’re only bending 1°-2°).

[isaacbm]

I’ve always wanted 12 yard carry distance gaps between each club for wedges and irons inside 200 yards. Then I usually have 15 to 20 yard gaps when I get down past 200 yards. 12 yards in irons basically means that I’m never really between clubs. Or if I am between clubs and I hit a perfect full shot it’s literally 18 feet short or long of wherever the pin is. When I get down to the longer clubs, even as a quite accomplished golfer I still always try to just make solid contact and be approximately hole high.

4° seems to be about right up to five iron and then 3° for three and four iron.

Although now my set make up is five iron to lob wedge and then I go into a 25° hybrid to get my 4iron distance and a 21° fairway wood to get my 3 iron. distance. I do that more for extra height so that I can hold greens better.

[Shilgy]

I’ll play devils advocate on this a bit and ask.....let’s say you have 15 yard gaps between wedges and short irons and 10 yard gaps at the top. For those in between shots are you more comfortable dialing down a 9 iron or a 3 iron 5-8 yards? For me it is a lot more reliable to adjust carry with a short iron in my hands. YMMV.

[Guest]

At lower lofts a degree of loft makes a bigger difference in ball speed and spin and distance than it does at higher lofts. A 20* club vs a 25* club with a full swing will have a much higher distance gap than the distance between 50 and a 55 degree wedges. A player much be able to effectively launch those lower lofted clubs however for that to hold true on the course.

For most recreational golfers the point where a long iron doesn’t go farther, just lower, is somewhere in that 3-5 iron range. Players often make up for that with a hybrid or driving iron style club that provides easier launch. Maybe even like a 7 or 9 wood.

My ultimate point is that manufacturers generally try to fit the meat of the bell curve of the intended audience for a given line of irons. They also make the irons adjustable for the serious players or the obsessive-compulsive. There are also hybrids and DIs and heavenwoods and every conceivable type of wedge configuration available for purchase to make the exact gapping a person wants. So I don’t see the any issue whatsoever.

I am typically way more worried about whether the loft and lie specs are even close to what they’re supposed to be on a new set of clubs than I am about gap compression at the top end of the bag.

[Shilgy]

I would agree with that. All of the angst over degrees of loft misses the point. A player should have clubs that give you the gaps and total yardages that the individual wants/needs. Any talk of a set being wrong because of strong lofts or weird gaps is really pointless if it serves the needs of the player using them.