Scratch wedges vs. Vokeys????

ty cheek · November 24, 2007

Need help from low HDCP players

I need some help/input. I am looking at new wedges and have played Vokeys for a couple of years. I use a 54.10 bent to 53 for my SW, and a 58.08 Spin Mill for my lob. The question I have is not the quality of the Scratch wedges, I'm comfortable with the quality and design. I have spoken with Ari via email, and we have worked out what I would probably get.

My concerns are two fold; one, will a 58 EGG through the custom shop spin as well as my current spin mill, and secondly how durable are they versus the Vokeys? I know the Scratch wedges are forged not cast, which would lead me to believe they will wear faster.

I practice ALOT with my 53, and have basically worn one out in a year. I have been replacing my wedges every year. To invest $300 per wedge......I think you can see my hesitation.

I would appreciate your thoughts from better (below 3.0 HDCP) players. No offense higher HDCP guys, I'll take your input as well.

I just need to hear from guys who can make a wedge talk, and their thoughts on the Vokeys versus the Scratch.

Thanks,

Ty :D

joem06 · November 24, 2007

Ty Cheek,
I am currently using Titleist Vokey 50* (Spinner), 56SM*-bent to 55* (Spinner), and a 60SM(Spinner). I play to a 1.7. Your correct about the soft stainless forgings, they seem to wear faster. If you are a wedge beater...like myself I would hold off for a couple of months. I just hit the new Callaway X-Forged Tour wedge due in late december, early January...simply amazing. Im fairly sure your aware of the fact that Callaways master designer is Roger Cleveland, but in case you didn't know...there you go. Bob Vokey does a great job with wedges, but the feel and versitality of the new Callaway wedges are outstanding, a nice new grind and shape as well. The thing is, no matter what you get, the wedges are going to wear out at a dramatic pace. Why spend $300 a wedge when you can spend roughly 1/3 of that for a wedge that is just as good if not better? Replace your wedges every 6-8 months if your avid.
_Jojom06_

d0n · November 24, 2007

Ty, there is probably only a handful of members who can meet your criteria and that have had their Scratch wedges for longer than a year. (I'm still taking choir lessons with my Scratch wedges. ) With that being said, when the members respond it's going to probably be overwhelming positive reviews. It is a lot of money - good luck!

longdrive55 · November 24, 2007

Well, I'm no 3 handicap, but short game is where I shine on the golf course and I can make a wedge talk. The spin mills are fine for producing lots of spin and thus offering lots of different shot options(one hop and stop, low spinners, etc) but they have no feel. With a Scratch or other nicely forged wedge the feel will take your game to a new level, especially right around the greens and for any shot under 40 yards. Not to mention that the grinds are infinitely more playable (unless your wedges are custom ground for you today).

I haven't played cast wedges in a long time, but if you're wearing out one SM a year, I'd bet the Scratch will go a little bit sooner, but not a lot.

By the way, I've owned and still do own a Scratch wedge. While they are awesome clubs, I play with the Sonartec Forged wedges. To me they are just about as soft feeling and provide lots of spin with milled faces and grooves. They can be had cheap on Ebay too. Worth a shot if you're looking for something new on a budget.

Good Luck

titleist1 · November 24, 2007

I'm a 1.8 handicap and I play s.m. vokey's and really like them. I practice alot
and could not imagine paying $300 for a wedge. I burn through wedges too often as
it is and I'm sure the Scratch wedges and not going to be as durable as the Vokey's.
I'm sure they feel great and are great products, but not for me!

Viking Golfer · November 25, 2007

[quote name='longdrive55' post='800913' date='Nov 24 2007, 07:05 PM']Well, I'm no 3 handicap, but short game is where I shine on the golf course and I can make a wedge talk. The spin mills are fine for producing lots of spin and thus offering lots of different shot options(one hop and stop, low spinners, etc) but they have no feel. With a Scratch or other nicely forged wedge the feel will take your game to a new level, especially right around the greens and for any shot under 40 yards. Not to mention that the grinds are infinitely more playable (unless your wedges are custom ground for you today).

I haven't played cast wedges in a long time, but if you're wearing out one SM a year, I'd bet the Scratch will go a little bit sooner, but not a lot.

By the way, I've owned and still do own a Scratch wedge. While they are awesome clubs, I play with the Sonartec Forged wedges. To me they are just about as soft feeling and provide lots of spin with milled faces and grooves. They can be had cheap on Ebay too. Worth a shot if you're looking for something new on a budget.

Good Luck[/quote]

Sonartec t35 may be forged, but it's forged from 8620 carbon steel, which really is not a true carbon steel, but an alloy steel - and won't be nearly as soft as 1018 carbon steel, which Scratch wedges are forged from. Don't know how many times the Sonartec wedges are pressed, but not even double pressed 8620 alloy steel will come close to quad forged 1018 carbon steel.

I've hit the Sonartec t35 wedge and to me it felt kind of harsh - even compared to my cast Vokey, which is cast from the same 8620 carbon/alloy steel.

Scratch wedges with the proper finish will feel like heaven compared to a Sonartec t35 wedge in my view

Viking Golfer · November 25, 2007

I play both the cast Vokey's and the forged custom made Scratch wedges, so I could be of some help to you

I like both wedges very much, and play a trio of Vokey 200 Spin Milled satin in my winter & rain bag.
I also practice with my Vokey wedges, because they are more durable and not as expensive as my trio of custom made Scratch wedges, which cost $350 a wedge.

I don't practice more than once a week and play once a week during the summer season - I also have to play tennis twice a week and workout in the gym, so golf is far from the only thing in my life. If I practiced and played golf 4-5 times a week, I would wear down a wedge every season, I think. I won't ever play that much golf, I think I would end up hating golf, if I played it that much week in and week out. I need to do something else besides golf, to keep loving the game of golf

However I'm still a low cap golfer closing in on Scratch level and to be honest with you, quality will cost you and the advantage of having a trio/set of custom made Scratch wedges made to your exact specifications can't be beaten - one grind on the lob wedge and another grind on the sand wedge, preferred finish, logo, stamping, grip, shaft and loft and lie and then quad forged from very soft 1018 carbon steel and even CNC hand milled box grooves - it beats the Vokey wedge hands down - no comparison.

Not saying the Vokey wedges aren't great, because they certainly are, just saying that the Scratch wedges are superior in every way, except price level - QUALITY WILL COST YOU
If you buy the custom Scratch wedges, you can fell like a true tour player - you choose everything in the wedges from start to finish.
The Vokey wedge will perform great, but you have to have a guy like Joe to hand grind them, and will probably loose some swing weight during this process - or you have to like the retail standard Vokey wedge.

I would say the Vokey retail wedge is like a fine car - maybe a BMW 325i, a great car that will please most people.
The custom made Scratch proto wedge however is like a custom hand build Ferrari - the best of the best.

You can live fine with the BMW 325i - but the custom build Ferrari will be the best of the best for you.
Maybe the BMW 325i will be more durable and less expensive in the long run, but the Ferrari will rock your world

progolf4life · November 25, 2007

Claus, right now you can find a lot of Vokey's that already have grinds on them if you watch the BST. And most of them are really cheap. I think that if you play a lot just pick up some Vokey's with a custom grind on it (of course the grind has to fit you) and then buy a regroover tool and your set.

d0n · November 25, 2007

In Stan Utley's short game book he says Tiger wears out 3 wedges a year. Not the grooves but he wears the bounce off the bottom....

If you guys can wear out a wedge in a year, and you pick up a used wedge you might not get the life out of it you were expecting. Just something to think about...

progolf4life · November 25, 2007

[quote name='d0n' post='801696' date='Nov 25 2007, 11:42 AM']In Stan Utley's short game book he says Tiger wears out 3 wedges a year. Not the grooves but he wears the bounce off the bottom....

If you guys can wear out a wedge in a year, and you pick up a used wedge you might not get the life out of it you were expecting. Just something to think about...[/quote]

With a regrooving tool you would be fine and as far as wearing the bounce of the bottom....i've never heard that before.

d0n · November 25, 2007

I'm thread jacking now but I thought I'd post this anyways. Page 39 (toward the bottom) of "The Art of The Short Game" by Stan Utley.

[i]Tiger Woods goes through three or four lob wedges in a year not because he wears out the grooves, but because he actually wears the bounce off the bottom of the club. He's a serious short-game practicer. The sandy soil in Florida is also harder on the clubs than dirt up in the Midwest or Northeast. [/i]

I don't know if this is true but being published in Stan's book I would assume it's pretty reliable. TW's wedges probably doesn't have a lot of the original bounce metal left when he gets them as they are probably custom ground. Lot's of us only think about the grooves in our wedges but the bounce wearing out? It would be interesting if Ari could chime in on this topic. There's are pro's playing his clubs, maybe they have the same issue?

Ty, maybe you can pick up one of the [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=126636"]used wedges Ari has for sale[/url] and you could see for yourself if Scratch is right for you. It wouldn't be 100% custom to what you were looking for, but maybe it would be a good chance to see if Scratch was right for you at a fraction of the price.

Golfdog · November 25, 2007

I play Vokeys and have a Scratch LW too. The Scratch is nice, but I don't see it being able to do anything the Vokey can't. I would say if feels/sounds a little softer, but that's about it IMO. There are a lot of really great wedges out there, and I think it's just a matter of personal preference rather than performance.

Viking Golfer · November 25, 2007

[quote name='progolf4life' post='801690' date='Nov 25 2007, 05:35 PM']Claus, right now you can find a lot of Vokey's that already have grinds on them if you watch the BST. And most of them are really cheap. I think that if you play a lot just pick up some Vokey's with a custom grind on it (of course the grind has to fit you) and then buy a regroover tool and your set.[/quote]

Yeahhh...if it's all about saving money - but this forum is not about that normally

When you buy wedges from BST stuff, you almost NEVER will find a wedge that fits [b]YOU - [/b]it would be pure luck if you could find such a wedge.
The thread starter asks if Scratch wedges is worth the investment, and I say [b]YES!, [/b]if he wants the best performer.

If he wants to save money, then I don't see why anyone would ask about about a custom hand made forged golf club - it would be like asking about a Bentley GT, and not have the means to pay for the insurance

Viking Golfer · November 25, 2007

[quote name='d0n' post='801737' date='Nov 25 2007, 06:34 PM']I'm thread jacking now but I thought I'd post this anyways. Page 39 (toward the bottom) of "The Art of The Short Game" by Stan Utley.

[i]Tiger Woods goes through three or four lob wedges in a year not because he wears out the grooves, but because he actually wears the bounce off the bottom of the club. He's a serious short-game practicer. The sandy soil in Florida is also harder on the clubs than dirt up in the Midwest or Northeast. [/i]

I don't know if this is true but being published in Stan's book I would assume it's pretty reliable. TW's wedges probably doesn't have a lot of the original bounce metal left when he gets them as they are probably custom ground. Lot's of us only think about the grooves in our wedges but the bounce wearing out? It would be interesting if Ari could chime in on this topic. There's are pro's playing his clubs, maybe they have the same issue?

Ty, maybe you can pick up one of the [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=126636"]used wedges Ari has for sale[/url] and you could see for yourself if Scratch is right for you. It wouldn't be 100% custom to what you were looking for, but maybe it would be a good chance to see if Scratch was right for you at a fraction of the price.[/quote]

It seems pretty logical to me, that a pro player that practice a lot with his wedges can wear the bounce and grind area on the wedge down during 3-4 months of intensive play and practice. Remember these guys play 4 times a week in tournaments, practice maybe 5-6 times a week for hours with their wedges - a soft forged wedge would be quite easy to wear down from so much use and pratice.
Also Tiger lives in Florida, where the sandy earth is hard on wedges and golf clubs in general.

I practice my short game for 1-2 hours a week total, and I still use the same Vokey's, I bought 2 years ago (I also have my Scratch wewdges for my summer bag)
Tiger may very well practice his short game for 5-6 hours a week, which means I should be able to use my Vokey's for at least one season more.

ty cheek · November 25, 2007

My concern is more about performance than price. I'm a .5 to 3.0 HDCP depending on how much I'm getting to play. And I do other things like work, be a dad, etc. Golf is not my all consuming....but I digress.

I've gone from WRX Ping I3+ blades to custom built Mizunos. Do they feel different, yes one is cast and one is forged, but I would NEVER EVER say my Pings felt bad, in fact they felt really good when I pured it, just different from my forged Mizunos. While I don't doubt the Scratch wedges would feel very soft, and solid, my current Vokeys feel very good to me.

[u][b]The reason for the comparison was, will investing 3 times what I pay for current wedges that are custom built with standard grinds improve my play enough to justify the cost difference[/b][/u]

That was the original question, and I just don't know if they will or not.

Golfdog · November 25, 2007

[quote name='ty cheek' post='801838' date='Nov 25 2007, 02:24 PM'][u][b]The reason for the comparison was, will investing 3 times what I pay for current wedges that are custom built with standard grinds improve my play enough to justify the cost difference[/b][/u][/quote]

No they won't. If fact, I don't think they'll improve your play to a noticeable degree. It's a little like Scotty Cameron putters, IMO. You pay for the bling, not for better performance. JMHO

FairwayFred · November 25, 2007

Most of the people playing our wedges from Touring Professionals to every day amateurs find that playing the correct grind wedges makes a huge difference in their ability to score around the greens. While being able to design all the stampings and finish yourself is a huge draw of our clubs the main reason why most people buy them is because they help them get the ball into the hole sooner and help them shoot lower scores. Untill you get the right grind in your hands you really do not know what you are missing.