Longtime WRX'er but brand new to Vintage, I'd love to join the Vintage forum

[Hit em good]

Hello fellas. I'm a longtime WRX'er but am brand new to Vintage equipment. I'm 52 years old, and just got a huge case of nostalgia, especially of the hundreds of rounds I played with my grandpa in my youth in the 70's. Those are some of the best memories of my life. Stu and Bigarch suggested I get in with this group. So if you don't mind, I would like to join your Vintage forum so I can glean at least some of the vast knowledge from this group. I don't know anything about the Vintage equipment, and I'm wanting to put together a set.

I got started this week buying a set of 1969 Wilson Staff Bullet Back irons 2 -pw, off ebay. I haven't received them yet. They look to be in pretty decent condition. I expect the lofts to be much weaker, which is great with me. I never liked gap wedges anyway. What do you think I should I expect in terms of playability? Should they play pretty much like modern blades? Will the old school shafts be much less effective?

My biggest question..., I'm looking for a persimmon wood set, and I got a little overwhelmed on Ebay. They all look the same. I'm looking for 60's / 70's era woods. I'm looking for good quality woods, not in terms of condition, but in terms of what a dedicated golfer would play. ie; Titleist/Mizuno/Ping/etc. vs. Northwestern set from Academy department store. So, are there any models you would suggest? I saw alot of Macgregors. I used to like the Powerbuilt Citations, but don't know if they are truly vintage from that era. I would love to hear your suggestions on woods.

Also on wood sets, I saw alot of Driver, 3 wood, 4 wood, sets. With modern clubs, a 3 and 4 wood would be redundant, but with vintage does it make sense?

As far as putter, I was just going to order a vintage 8802. There are a few for sale in good looking condition on Ebay. I even questioned if a couple were authentic because they looked pretty good. How does the 8802 sound as a choice? I know they are one of the most classic.

I need a sandwedge. I found some vintage Wilson JP options that looked okay. Any other suggestions there?

Finally, a golf ball. What do you recommend? Also, can I hit range balls with the persimmon woods, or would that be a bad idea?

Thanks guys. I'm honored to join this group if you don't mind, and learning from all of you.

Hit em good

[Bigarch]

Welcome again! I think the one thing you will find over here is that everyone's idea of "Vintage" can vary quite a bit. For some, that means hickory shafted stuff, for others its Mac's and Hogans from the 50s and 60s. And others...including myself, can consider Ping Eye 2's and early model Taylormade metalwoods to be vintage....I mean they are nearly 40 years old, right???

Anyway, I'll weigh in on the persimmon question. Yes a lot of the sets were 1-3-4-5 back then. You'll notice many of the 3 woods have a deeper face than modern clubs so they may not be as easy to elevate off the turf. So you may have better luck with the 4 wood. For me, the biggest problem I have is finding a modern ball that spins enough to elevate and get the distance out of it that I like. So often I end up hitting the 3 wood off the tee and can hit them as far or farther than the driver. I have a Hogan 2 wood that I actually LOVE. So don't be scared to mess around with different clubs and different lofts. I like the persimmons from the late 70's and early 80s myself. So that includes Penna's, Powerbilts, Cleveland Classics and the Palmer Peerless woods for me because that's what all the good players I grew up around were playing at the time I first got interested in golf. The older Macs, Spaldings, Wilsons and Hogans are probably more collectible but they were a bit before my time so I just don't get all that excited about them, generally. But I've really grown to appreciate them as I have learned more about them along with other stuff that I had never even heard of. I recently found a George Izett persimmon driver for $5 that I am going to send to them in Philadelphia and have them refinish it. I would have never known about an Izett driver, or the fact that his family is still in business if it weren't for these forums over here. BEWARE, these guys will fuel your addiction!

[raggal62]

Welcome !

BigArch has some good advice. I would also recommend looking at PowerBilt persimmon. Very playable design and readily available on eBay at generally reasonable prices.

The bullet back Staffs are great and fairly forgiving for blades. The old school lengths are shorter which may or may not be beneficial.

Your choice in putters is great! Hard to go wrong there. Also the JP wedges are about as good as anything available today.

I like playing the Wilson Duo ball with my vintage set. Very soft. I wouldn't recommend hitting range balls with persimmon. JMHO.

[deejaid]

Welcome to our secret society! First, you must pass the initiation though. Start by throwing that latest $600 driver in a large body of water and pledge your allegiance to persimmon. ?

 

In all seriousness though, vintage golf is a wonderful world that has many different eras to explore. Your acquisition of a set of 1969 Wilson Staff irons is a good start. I’ve collected a lot of different vintage clubs from the 1930’s through the 1980’s and from my experience the 1960’s era stuff and up seem to be a bit easier to play, specifically in regards to shafts. At the same time, the quality of persimmon woods of the 1960’s and 70’s aren’t nearly as nice as 1950’s era blocks.

 

When buying vintage clubs you need to realize that it isn’t like buying new equipment that has been fitted for your swing. There is a lot of trial and error finding clubs that work best for you. Fortunately prices for vintage equipment is low so trial and error can be a fun experience without breaking the bank.

 

My favorite era of clubs is the 1950’s era as I love the designs of the time period. Macgregor irons from that time had narrower soles than Wilson for example and I’ve found that my 1955 Mac 925 Tommy Armours play the best for me, while I’ve moved on from the vintage Hogan’s that started me down the vintage path. As for woods, I have tons of sets and many are from the 1950’s, but I’ve found that my best performing set is a set of 1969 Powerbilt Model 807 woods. They were a low end pro shop offering but they just absolutely launch the ball for me.

 

I’d say if you are looking for late 1960’s or 1970’s era woods, Powerbilt or Macgregor would be the way to go. I’ve also seen some nice Spalding woods from this era. Titleist had been called Golfcraft previously and had been making quality clubs for many years. Wilson many times are not persimmon but laminate maple. They are quality clubs but not as highly regarded as a solid persimmon head. You also have to realize many pros in the 1970’s and 1980’s were still playing woods and wedges from the 1950’s. Macgregor woods and Wilson Dynapowered sand wedges were highly sought after for many years and still are.

 

As for balls to us with persimmon I’ve pretty much settled on the Wilson Zip. With it’s advertised zero compression it feels very soft off the face of persimmon woods and spins plenty for me. I’ve tried many modern premium urethane balls and I still prefer the Zip.

 

You’ve embarked on wonderful new journey that will have you seeing the game in a new way. Enjoy!

 

[Hit em good]

Thanks Arch! I do recall my favorite wood in high school was my Macgregor eye o matic 4 wood, and driver was very difficult to hit. I'm glad you reminded me about spin, so I don't get discouraged if I have trouble with it.

Hit em good

[Hit em good]

Thanks raggal. I'll try the Wilson Duo's for sure.

How do us vintage guys practice hitting woods, without using range balls? Just on course practice with our gamers?

 

[Hit em good]

Thanks deejaid,

Thanks about the insight on having to find the clubs that fit me best. I'm glad you mentioned that, so I don't get frustrated with the first clubs I try.

On your advice, I'm checking out a Dynapowered sand wedge right now.

Thanks guys for sharing your great experience!

Hit em good

[deejaid]

The bigger problem than hard range balls in my opinion is hitting off range mats. Driving range mat turf is made of polyethylene and many persimmon woods have been refinished in polyurethane both of which are plastic. The clubs swinging against the mat causes friction and the polyethylene mat fibers will melt into the polyurethane club finish which is nearly impossible to remove without sanding it off.

[deejaid]

The Dynapowered sand wedge everyone wants is the 1958 model. They are still highly sought after. I’ve only seen one for sale in the last 2 years and it was $250. I didn’t buy it.

[NRJyzr]

Welcome to the Classic side of the fence!

There are a lot of options that will meet your criteria. Powerbilt woods did have a good rep back in the day, per several comments in these folders over the years. MacGregors are near the top of the chain, Wood Bros don't quite meet your date range but seem to be the Holy Trail. There's always the Hogan train.

Personally, I went Ram, and largely in the 80s, in part because those were the prime years for Ram.

Palmer persimmons seem interesting, though I've not hit one. I'm also a fan of the Ping laminates, rather good stuff IMHO.

Once I hit my first set of Wilson Staff blades, I understood why they were so popular on Tour for so long.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Getting a set of Wilson bullet backs is a great start!

Lots of good advice has already been given, so I don't have much to add, but I do want to re-echo Bigarch's point on the driver and three-wood. I remember back in the days of persimmon, golf magazine and pros often said the driver is the hardest club in the bag to hit. With these massive modern heads, the driver has probably become the easiest club to hit now. Anyway, with the modern low-spin ball, a persimmon driver is even harder to hit now than it was back in the day, so a good three-wood is essential. I've not done any real on-course testing, but I doubt there much difference in distance between my average driver tee-shot and average 3-w tee shot.

I also have a couple of two-woods, and if I put one in the bag, it basically replaces the driver.

Incidentally, I've read on this forum that the Kirkland Signatures are high-spinning, but I've yet to try them.

[smorg]

Welcome to the fun side. Your are off to a great start with the Staff's. I agree with other posters that woods are highly subjective,. I have a number of MacGregor Tourney, Titleist, Spalding, Powerbilt, Ram, Wilson Staff, Walter Hagen and Ping wood sets, persimmon and laminate. My go to is a 1,3,4, 5 set of MacGregor MT persimmons circa late 70's. I love a 4 persimmon or laminate maple 4 wood and will confess I play a Tour Edge Exotics 4 metal. Easier to hit off the fairway than a 2 or 3 wood with nearly the same carry. Still trying to decide if I like the PIngs or not. Lots of great vintage putters to consider and the 8802 is hard to beat. Might take a look at one of the many models of Bullseye putters as well. I play whatever ball that I have handy most of the time, although I've noticed Titleist Pro V or Callaway Chrome Soft seem to have a better feel. I don't care about high I hit the ball, really enjoy the low, boring ball flight with real lumber, wind cheaters.

[BIG STU]

Glad to see you made it over here. See already some of the great minds on this side of the tracks have responded.

One thing about this hobby as with any other hobby you can spend a little or spend a lot depending on how you go about it.

On hitting range rocks with persimmon that can be a loaded question as far as hurting a persimmon wood. A lot of that depends on the condition of the wood itself to begin with. If it is not dried up or previously cracked it can be ok . Now a lot of that has to do with swing speed of the player. Absolutely I would NOT allow one of these young 120 mph swing players hit a range rock with one of my persimmons. Me yeah because I do not swing that hard or fast anymore. Now another thing is the insert material. A driver with the pressed celluite insert these new hard balls will chew up those inserts we found that out in the 80s with the introduction of the Surlyn covered hard balls. I have a couple of Power Bilt drivers I salvaged off the pile at work that I use for practice purposes with range rocks. And like DJ said do not hit off of mats for the reason he stated. Right now I have a set of Louisville 50 persimmons I salvaged off the pile with that problem that I am working on and they are a PITA to clean up.

On wedges I will say the 58 Staff started it all. The famous Cleveland 588s are a 58 Staff copy as are numerous others. Basically I am a huge 588 fan but I am also a Wilson JP fan as well. And why we are talking Wilson on this side of the tracks JP means Joe Phillips not James Patrick. Joe Phillips was the chief designer at Wilson back in the day. Why I am thinking about it on this side of the tracks T W means Tom Watson not Tiger Woods.

But yeah stick around and get educated--- As much as I have messed with classic clubs over the years I learn something or see something I have never heard of before every time I go on here. Like I said before there is a great collection of minds and history knowledge on this side of the tracks

[Foozle]

I am a relatively new WRX'er but long time classic player / collector - welcome back to golf as it should be!

I agree with lots of the comments above and, not for the first time, am in total agreement with Deejaid. Always hard to advise as I personally believe there as many "best" clubs as there are players. A lot of the fun in playing vintage is the experimenting and finding what works for you. I have had many unexpected surprises along the way!

Life and family kept me out of golf between '96 and '13 so I missed the club revolution which I feel has done so much to spoil our beautiful game and many great courses too. I had no desire to adapt so have only ever played blades and persimmon. If you are coming to vintage from the dark side that is modern equipment you will notice a difference probably best summarised as forgiveness. Distance not do much as you simply move from hitting a 7 to hitting a 4 or 5. As long as it ends on the green what does it matter what the number on the sole is? What you will sacrifice in forgiveness is feel! Glorious feel! The sensation of striking pure blades and persimmon is other worldly and I am sure is what makes all the contributors here so passionate about this hobby.

To comment on some of your specific queries, from a purely personal point of view, I always carry a 1 or 2 iron so tend to only carry 2 woods - usually driver and 4 wood. In the era of your first set, I would definitely look at MacGregor woods but do not write off Wilson Strata blocks especially as you have the Bullet Backs and are looking at 8802 and Dynapowered wedge. For a sand iron, try the Wilson R20 or R90 to complete your Wilson bag?

Bottom line, experiment, play and enjoy! You won't regret it!

[Foozle]

Sorry! Typo! What meant to say is what you sacrifice in forgiveness you will gain in feel! Hogan was right when he said a pure strike is s feeling that runs up the club, through your hands and into your heart! That has been engineered out of modern equipment and what makes vintage special.

Fairways and greens my friend.

[RobotDoctor]

Welcome to the wonderful world of vintage clubs. There's a terrific group of people who share this love for this era. Best of luck in your pursuit in adding to your collection!

[James the Hogan Fan]

Hi there!

I would recommend a cheap laminated wood as your sacrificial range weapon. Some of them were made off the same patterns as the real persimmons, and there are many of them to go around that are practically worthless, so you can chase that feeling (because the switch from big drivers is hard) with range rocks without hurting anything irreplaceable.

A ball: any of the modern player's balls will do, but the softness of the Wilson DX2's (also called Duo Urethane) is a very popular choice.

Wedges: in the 70's, a company called Stan Thompson made forged stainless wedges that I found so good, the PW went into my frontline bag from 2011-2019. Stan Thompson Stainless at toe Pitching Wedge Steel Mens RH | eBayThat's the model. (Not my ad in any way)

I like stainless because it's indestructible and always looking good.

[Hit em good]

OP Hit em good here....,

Thank you all so much for your great advice.

Alright, I've purchased my whole bag. It's all still in in shipping, but should be here by the end of the week. I'm hoping our local courses here in South Texas are still open next week so I can try everything out. So, here is what I purchased.

Irons: 1969 Wilson Staff Bullet Backs 2 - pw

Sand wedge: Wilson Dyna-Powered 56° not sure of the age

Woods: A MacGregor persimmon set, Driver, 3w, 4w, from the late 60's, I don't have the model written down as I'm typing this. They've been refinished, and look very good. I'll see if I need a 5w, once I take them to the range.

Putter: The Wilson 8802 I think it is an original. "Wilson" is in red, and the seller says its the real deal. It looks to be in good shape.

I also purchased leather vintage fairway covers, from the Arizona Country Club, that look in decent shape.

I know the journey is just beginning for me, and I can't wait to get these babies and take them out next weekend.

Thanks for welcoming to this forum fellas. I appreciate all of your great knowledge.

Hit em good

[golfunderpar18]

Welcome! I grew up playing persimmons in the 80’s and still have them. I’ve been collecting more seriously over the last 5 years. There are some great persimmons from the 50’s but agree it can be overwhelming. There are some great newer persimmons such as wood brothers and Cleveland classics from the 80’s. Clevelands are solid - have great grain, and many mimic the older MacGregors style wise. Price points are reasonable too. Wood brothers - well, they are the cream of the crop!

i like your pick of an 8802. Great classic blade. They have many models though - some are remakes which are still great putters. Just be careful getting sucked into one at a high price if it’s not original. Also Cleveland makes awesome Palmer designed by and 8802 Knock offs. I have many and they have beautiful weight and sit great (Cleveland classic “designed by” for your search.)

i also have a lot of pings - irons, laminate woods, putters, etc. some putters date back to the 60’s but most of my ping irons and woods are early to mid 80’s. Still considered vintage. Pings are solid gamers.

[LeftyMac]

Well done on the Bullet Backs - they are a very nice iron. My first set of clubs were Wilson Sam Snead Blue Ridge - given to me by my uncle and about 10 years ago I thought it would be nice to put together the set I'd have only dreamed about when I was using those Wilson's 45 years ago. That was a starting point. I was lucky enough to find a mint set of 1961 Wilson Staffs on Ebay and then stumbled on someone getting rid of a relative's collection of old MacGregor woods. Like most here, once you start it's hard to stop. I have a few hickories because a friend is into them and it makes sense to use them when we play together. Probably the best thing for me is that both my sons love the old gear. The eldest is a lefty like me and is using a 1952 Mac 653 as his gamer along with a half set of Mac Muirfield 20th irons. You'd weep to see how well he hits that driver. Youngest son is a righty so misses out on raiding my garage but plays most of his golf with hickories these days. The best thing for you is this forum - the depth of knowledge is unmatched. I have the Kaplan Books and a few other references but nothing comes close to the collective wisdom here.