That "next guy" to challenge Tiger and the other all-time greats is coming

[cdnglf]

~5% less than what he did 20 years ago?

Fields are slowly getting better. They were better in Tiger’s era than in Jack’s, and they’re better in Rory’s era than they were in Tiger’s.

 

[bscinstnct]

 

cdn! You guys a little cooler up there at least? Fry an egg ? on the sidewalk here ; )

 

I see and agree on overall fields improving over time.

Hey, Heres a mind bender on TW. Way back, he was not only the biggest hitter but also pretty accurate on the fw when he had the 43” steel shaft and small driver head. Then, all the new tech came out, graphite, longer shafts, toaster heads. And TW stayed with the old gear too long then went to a new swing to try and get more distance. That’s when he got wild off the tee but still totally dominated the game.

 

If TW had “grown up” playing the modern driver set up like these young guys? He’d be out there with Brysons current drives and have his iron/short game as well.

 

It would be total annihilation! You see how sensitive and fragile these guys are now? Imagine their tears getting thrashed by TW week in and week out?

[cdnglf]

 

We have “dry heat” in the west.

 

I’ve never understood Tiger’s (relative) struggles with the modern driver. How could he figure everything else out, yet never quite figure out that one club that supposedly was easier for everyone else? Weird.

 

Mostly, I just wanted to use the phrase “Rory’s era”

[Lark]

Deep fields have nothing to do with it, IMO. Fields were plenty deep when Tiger dominated. Tiger in his prime would dominate today just as he did 20 year ago.

[OrangeGravy]

My guess on his struggles to adapt to the modern driver have to do with how you had to move the ball one way or the other to control the spin. New driver wants to go straight for the most part. He talked about it recently when he had the young guys hit his high school driver during the stoppage. He spoke about how the ball would cut back to middle if you heeled it or draw back to middle off the toe. Modern driver does same to a lessor degree combined with the modern ball. I also don't think you can discount weight in this equation. It's tough to replicate the heft and balance of a steel shafted driver.

[bscinstnct]

 

Butch gave some great insight in the piece below.

It seems that Tiger was obviously killing it. He was flying it by everyone and very accurate, then, the new tech came out and he was slow to adapt. Instead of adjusting early, he actually left Butch to rework his whole golf swing! But obviously, that didn’t go as well as it could have as far as the driver goes. Crazy to think if he had adapted well or grew up with the modern set up.

 

Here is Butch, great piece...

 

“One of the reasons I believe Tiger felt he needed to change his swing was to increase his driving distance. When he first turned pro, Tiger drove it past everybody by a healthy margin. Davis Love III and John Daly were close, but no one consistently hit it as far and in as many fairways as did Tiger. When he needed to blast it past an opponent, he had that ability. Then, in about 2001, players started catching up with him. Ernie Els, Phil Mickelson and Vijay Singh all started hitting the ball close to, if not as long as, Tiger, and occasionally those players and others hit it by him. He never admitted it, but I believe that bothered him. He knew he generated more clubhead speed than anyone else out there, and he had gotten even faster since he'd started working out in his mid-20s, so being challenged off the tee was not something that was supposed to happen. When it did, I think he decided he needed to make some changes.

I believe that Tiger's perceived loss of distance (or the fact that the rest of the tour started catching up to him in the distance category) had more to do with his equipment than his golf swing. He insisted on staying with a 43 3/4-inch steel-shafted driver with a smaller head, while his fellow-competitors were playing 45-inch graphite shafts and jumbo titanium heads.

It's hard to question Tiger's reluctance to make a dramatic equipment change. He was the best player in the world. Tossing your driver when you're playing great is a tough thing to do. There were plenty of graphite shafts Tiger could have hit, but he took a cautious approach to change. No one can fault him for that decision. But I think overhauling his golf swing was a mistake when putting a new driver in the bag would have done the trick.”

 

Harmon: What I Think Of Tiger's Swing

 

 

 

 

 

[cdnglf]

Interesting arguments. Not sure about Butch’s take. I thought Tiger has been pretty clear he made the Haney swing change to save his knee.

 

 

 

[freowho]

Tiger had a swing that suited a shorter, flatter club. The changes he made with Butch were mainly setup changes, not swing changes. Slightly weaker grip and open stance to straighten the ball out. He tried to change his biomechanics with Haney which is very difficult to do. They tried to shallow the club earlier on the downswing but his lower half just wants to move aggressively towards the ball so he kept getting stuck. He kept winning majors and on tough courses because his 3w to putter were so far ahead of everyone else.

Tiger would have won so many more majors if the equipment hadn't changed. I think Nicklaus had the same 3 wood for 30 years didn't he? And wasn't Byron Nelson the first to really benefit from steel shafts from a young age?

I think Dustin Johnson started playing better when he was able to adjust the Taylor Made driver. I think he had it on the flattest setting with the weight on the toe. I'm not 100% sure on this but just something I noticed a few times watching him play.

Sport in general is a physical lottery. In some sports it's about height, speed, stamina etc. Golf is a sport where the equipment plays a big part. I still think a good player will be a good player but the technology of the day definitely plays a part in how good your career is.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Bryson DeChambeau, once he learns to one putt every green.

[JD3]

I think theres a new class emerging before our eyes who are taking things to the next level and could produce "that guy." Guys like dechambeau and rahm are young and strong and imo in the process of taking the game to new levels.

[bscinstnct]

 

They both have very strong aspects to their games but neither is complete as far as elite in every category. And equally as importantly, I doubt either possess anywhere near the mental and physical stamina to focus week in and week out at the TW level. We’re talking 6+ wins and multiple majors per year. I’d be surprised if either is in that class.

More likely, if anything, we see one or the other win a major or even a couple/few and go on a mini streak then they can’t keep pace with the stress level and demands of maintaining a position as a dominant player. Like we saw with Rory or Spieth and BK.

And don’t count out JT. He’s as good as Rahm and better than BD I think.

Overall, Rory is still the guy who can beat them all hands down if his firing on all cylinders.

[cdnglf]

 

Yup.

Dechambeau has 6 PGA Tour wins, which is great. But he is only 4 years younger than Rory, who has 18 including 4 majors and a 5th major.

[Guest]

Sometimes I look at the top guys and think that some weeks they definitely just check out and just want the payday. So I agree with a lot of the sentiment here.

 

It seemed to me that Tiger didn't care if it was St Andrews or Warwick Hills, he'd try to win every time. I like that guys are trying to change the game physically and technologically, but they will hit a wall until their mental game is better.

[Jay28]

No one around today on tour is even close to Tiger in his hey day. Tiger did take advantage of his length off the tee, but he was also better than everyone else from tee to green and on the green. Every aspect of the game he was the best.

I hope one day soon someone does come along, but it's not in the current crop.

The best right now are Koepke, Rahm, Thomas and McIlroy.

Rahm is probably best placed to be world #1 for the most weeks over the coming 5 years or so, because he's good at everything.

Thomas I feel is at his limits with the driver too often and has more chance of hitting a rough patch, Brooks has some injury concerns and Rory can't putt.

[freowho]

McIlroy a lot like Norman in game style. Only difference is that Norman didn't start playing until 15 so McIlroy got off to a better start. He will be at the top for a long time but will underachieve in majors.

Brooks has put a lot of muscle onto a small frame and is now managing injuries.

JT = Johnny Miller? An action with the longer clubs that requires a supple young body. Unless he changes his release pattern I can only see his driver becoming more of a problem.

Rahm has a much more sustainable swing and ball flight and maturity could help that temper.

I agree that we aren't seeing the "next guy" at the moment.

[NoTalentLefty]

There is no next TW or Jack on the tour now, may be some Tom Watsons out there and that ain’t bad. Those guys are in a class of their own. When you see a kid with a lot of distance dominating the jr ranks, then the college amateur ranks and start out winning a bunch right off on Tour, then you might have a new king.

[Naptime]

I won't hold my breath waiting for anyone to even get close to Tiger or Jack. Guys win a couple majors get hyped like he!! and then stall out. Some lose their game (Spieth), get injured (BK, JDay), or whatever (Rory et al.) To me most of them are interchangeable, I think Lee called them "flatbellies."