Course Record: 63 or 61

[ebrasmus21]

The club where I play has, for a number of years, had Nick Watney as the course record holder. He shot 63 in a tournament round at our club. I can't remember the specific tournament or the year but it was a tournament. If the year and the tournament specifics matter I can find out.

Last week a local collegiate golfer shot 61 from the tips. This was not a tournament round however it was from the tips and all putts were holed. 5 other players witnesssed the round.

So here is my question -- what score is the course record? 63 or 61?

[MtlJeff]

is this an opinion thing or is there an actual answer? I am not sure if a true course record requires it to be in a tournament but i imagine no such rule exists

In my opinion it's 61. A course record is just that, the lowest score shot on the course in a round played by the rules. If 5 people attested to it than that's good enough for me

[Nels55]

61 is the course record! Congrats to the local guy!

[ebrasmus21]

As far as I’m concerned the record is 61. Our head pro is being an A-Hole about it. “It wasn’t a tournament round and Nick is a touring professional.” Our pro isn’t honoring the round.

[MtlJeff]

I don't know what touring pro has to do with it. What if someone shoots 62 in an am or mid-am tournament? Does that not count either?

[ebrasmus21]

That’s what I’m getting at, it makes no sense to me. I was just curious if others have heard of course records only being honored under special or specific circumstances. I feel this entire situation makes our pro look like an idiot.

[enfuego]

I've heard of a lot of courses honoring both a tournament record and a regular record. The tournament distinction is mainly because the conditions/course setup would be tougher and more pressure in that setting.

At my course there is a day once a week or so where the pins end up in the easiest scoring positions. Those pins are never used in any tournament.

[BNGL]

I remember an amateur event I won I shot 65 in the opening round, and the pro asked for the card from the officials to display for the course record. Now I knew my tour buddy had the course record of 60, so I was a bit perplexed when he said I had set the new course record. He later had to explain it was a tournament course record...did I ever give Nick stick that I had the course record? Hell no! But it’s neat to have on the locker room wall...it was still there a few years ago too! So I think some clubs make a distinction of tournament course record and regular round course record of that makes sense.

 

[jvincent]

Your Pro is a jack-wad and needs to have a bunch of members come into the Pro shop and tell him as much.

Put the scorecard in a frame and mount it in the clubhouse.

[cardoustie]

61 all day

pro wants a tour name on the wall

locally, lots of clubs have professional and am course records

[Hawkeye77]

61!

FYI, there is a course not far from here where the course record was in a tournament and shot in a mini tour event by . . . Conrad Ray - Stanford golf coach.

If it's a private, have the board tell the pro what to do, pros are used to that.

[ebrasmus21]

I already dislike our pro. This hasn’t helped me like him anymore.

[Qqq123xx]

61

Doesn't matter in what form it was shot. A course record is exactly that.

[RobotDoctor]

You're head pro is wrong. There's no distinguishing a round by who shot a score. What distinguishes a round is score. 61 should be the course record.

[nsxguy]

"pro wants a tour name on the wall"

THIS !!!

 

[MtlJeff]

He's gonna have a dilemma if that college kid makes it to the tour

(5 years from now)

"ummm, the record is 61 now"

"Wait , when was that shot?"

"Never mind when it was shot, it's 61 now"

[BIG STU]

It is 61 and the kid holds it---- Now the other could be posted as a tournament record under tournament condition---- But a 61 is one heck of a score no matter the conditions

[Hawkeye77]

Maybe whomever owns the course should tell him what "course" considers the record - guessing he doesn't own it! Really not his jurisdiction, so to speak.

[ebrasmus21]

Our board has heard about this now From multiple members. The kid earned it

[lagacea]

61 for sure. I don't mind seeing different records if need be. As far as I'm concerned the lowest round ever recorded on your course is 61, so that's the record.

[double_d]

First thing I thought of too. The pro is pretty short-sighted.

[Socrates]

I'm going to be a dissenter here. In the previous versions (and better) Rules of Golf, a course record was described as such: "The term "course record" isn't defined in the rules of golf. However, it is generally accepted that a record score should be recognized as the official "course record" only if made in an individual stroke play competition (excluding bogey, par, or stableford competitions) with the holes and tee markers in their proper medal or championship positions."

Since the young fellow was not playing in a competition and just a casual round, it should not be considered the "Course Record." The 63 should stand as the Official Course Record, but I think there should be some recognition of the attested 61 as an Unofficial Course Record and be displayed in some form or another.

Like it or not, the Golf Pro is correct in his assertion.

[Dpavs]

Why doesn't the pro just expand what is on the wall? That way he can honor the kid and keep Watney's name up there if that is what is so important.

 

Course Record -

Tournament Record -

[ebrasmus21]

I appreciate the dissenting opinion. Let expand upon my own perspective on this matter. I mentioned I didn't like my pro but I didn't say why, to do so might need a thread on its own. Be that as it may, for this current situation we have a young collegiate golfer who's obviously a solid player. He's a quite, humble kid always working on his game and he goes out and shoots 61. The head professional at our club has said ABSOLUTELY FRIGGING NOTHING TO THE MEMBERSHIP about the round. The kid isn't the type to go around bragging about what he did and in the 108 year history of our club no one has set foot on the grounds and carded a 61.

Call me an old fashioned, sentimental type but if I was the head pro I'd have gone out of my way to make sure the members knew that at our historic club there was recently a historic round that was played. We saw the president of the board yesterday and asked him for his opinion on the round. He responded "what are you talking about?" He had no idea.

Anyways, all this to say I don't appreciate how our pro runs the course for many reasons and this has just rubbed me the wrong way.

[ebrasmus21]

That doesn't seem like a complicated thing to do, we shall see what our pro does.

[MtlJeff]

I don't know as much about the official rules, but would the pro be technically correct if that same definition is not in the updated rules of golf?

Wouldn't that lead to some leeway being given as to what local courses want to do?

[disco111]

While the 61 is unto it self a great round, we're not comparing apples to apples. Lets compare..........were the pins in difficult locations as they would be for tournament play - doubtful........were green speeds the same as tournament play, again doubtful.........was there the added pressure of tournament play in the equation, definitely no.

There most definitely should be a course record distinction and both should be displayed............

[enfuego]

I would add that the length of the rough would normally be longer/more difficult as well. But in a round of 61 he probably didn't have many shots from the rough.

[MtlJeff]

Id agree with anyone saying the 63 was likely shot in harder conditions.

I am just really curious overall about the distinction between tournaments rounds and non. I wonder what most courses do. I don't even know what our course record is

[Nels55]

This discussion brings a story to mind that I have read several times concerning Byron Nelson. If he was playing a course and was not playing in a tournament he would always ask what the course record was before he played. Usually the record was held by the head pro and Byron would be careful to always shoot one stroke higher then the course record because he thought that it was better if the head pro held the record for his own course. Class act all the way!