Course Record: 63 or 61

[Socrates]

I personally think the "new" Rules are terrible, but that's another thread... I cannot find the same kind of quote or info in the new Rules and I couldn't tell you why other than the Rules of Golf have nothing to do with actual scores or results other than posting a correct number. I guess they feel it is beneath them to mention it. I would lean on historical information or precedent if there is nothing current (much like the Law). The pro in this case is likely a jerk and that won't change anytime soon.

If I was the OP, I would frame the scorecard and put it up in the members locker room or grill room and the pro be damned.

[Krt22]

Yeah your pro is just a jackwagon. We have a member record and a tournament record , the member record was recently broken by a local college. The tournament record is held by a current PGA touring pro playing a US open local qualifier.

 

[enfuego]

Class for sure. A number of these stories pop up and its always great to see the local guy or someone with more attachment to the course keep the record. A quick google search returned the following article but I'm sure there are more of these stories out there. https://www.pga.com/archive/time-pga-tour-player-three-putted-avoid-course-record

[golfpunk59]

Might be a Canadian thing but I've never seen a course record that hasn't been in an tournament. Course I grew up playing 3 of us have shot 64 but the record remains 66 as it was in a tournament. Club I'm currently at had a guy 61 shot in men's night and the course record still remains 62.

I really don't care what clubs or course do but its just a different perspective. I cant remember who said it but " There's golf and then there's tournament golf." Something I wholehearted agree with. I think that's important to remember when things like this come up.

[ebrasmus21]

Jack wagon is a good descriptor

[Bisonpitcher]

The 61 should count.

Good example around here is at OakTree National. The previous course record was 64 shot by both Scott Verplank and Bob Tway. Willie Wood shot 62 on it when the course was still 6900 yards. But the two 64's were the best on the current 7400+ yard setup. Austin Eckroat (local kid who plays at OSU and is a top 20 amateur in the world) shot 61 a couple of weeks ago to shatter the CR by 3 shots. His 61 is now the official course record. Here is the newspaper article about his round.https://www.google.com/amp/s/oklahoman.com/article/5664381/osu-golf-austin-eckroat-breaks-course-record-with-61-at-oak-tree-national/amp

[disco111]

Golf courses can and do establish their own value on what is a course record, it's their prerogative. But lets get factual about certain aspects of a record setting round. As stated prior, tournament vs normal round is not an apples to apples comparison. Now in this particular case at Oak Tree, we have an additional aspect to contend with, that being the distance the course was playing at when he shot the 61. OTN already set the format for counting what the record was/is when they stipulated the previous records were distance driven (6900 vs 7400) Granted, it was a great round of golf, but at least in my opinion, as someone once said, there's golf and then there's tournament golf.

[smashdn]

Sorry to derail this slightly but the discussion got me thinking, how do you address a ladies' course record? Or is there only one course record? What if a course hosted say a US Women's Open qualifier and a "record low score" was shot but the course was not "tipped out" for the ladies, does that count?

 

Not trying to stir the pot, I genuinely would like to know how that gets addressed.

[disco111]

Some course have specific course records established for men's / ladies / seniors. The course I play has them listed as such, but with the added stipulation of tournament score record and general play record.

[RobotDoctor]

If the club pro wants a tour player to hold the record then the tour pro should make a few more birdies. Simple as that. Want the course record, record a 60. Tournament or not the course record of 61 is outstanding golf.

[hbear]

At our club, course records apply to tournament rounds only.

61 is a great score, but for us the tournament 63 would be recognized as the course record.

Nothing to do with who shot it, but instead the conditions in which it was shot. (pin placement, green speed, rough length, and tournament pressure all have an impact).

If a course has a different policy, that's fine. Just a data point in how we handle it.....had never been an issue and know friends that have "broken" the record but none of them have made any fuss about "claiming" it as those were outside tournament play.

[BIG STU]

The ones around here that do post records do it that way exactly. Now one course right around the corner from me the course record is 62 under tournament conditions shot by Meg Mallon in a LPGA event some 20 years ago now They have the actual tournament score sheet posted in the club house along with other LPGA memorabilia. Funny story One time we were playing there and some Tourist hacks were asking who is she? A member of the ladies group? We told them and they said oh off the ladies tees huuh? No we told them at about 6800 here at sea level. What was funny was they had no clue and she was Solheim Cup Captain that year. A bud of mine who teaches at the golf school there followed her the whole day and can show you where she hit every shot from on that round.

[BIG STU]

Well I can tell you from experience being in the golf industry on and off all my life. At a private club a guy like him will eventually give himself enough rope to hang himself. Tick off several members over the most simple thing and they get 1 or 2 board members to go along and that guy will be outta there faster than a F-16

[Bisonpitcher]

I agree that clubs have a right to do it however they choose. But it seems to me that if you want to recognize the tournament CR, that they should have both listed as CR/Tournament CR, instead of just dismissing one out of hand. If the OP's course had this stipulation forever, that's one thing, but it sounds like the pro is just making it up as he goes along to whatever suits him.

[ebrasmus21]

Exactly. It isn’t as if ‘all members know the rules’ when it comes to course records. We did not know the rules hence the frustration.

Adding to that, whether it meets the definition of the course record or not it is in fact the lowest round ever carded in 108 years at our club. By definition that is exciting news. Share that news with the members, pro. Share historic news with your members that are golf fanatics.

Share exciting news with your members. Share history being made at a club that’s been around for a while. Get people excited for the kid that did it. Is that too much to ask?

I notice that someone posted on our club’s instagram and Facebook regarding this round of golf, lol. Definitely wasn’t our pro. Need to find out who controls our socials.

[LeoLeo99]

The course record only counts when it's shot in a tournament played off the tips with Sunday pin placements, at least 25 mph winds, and it has to be raining or else the conditions are too easy for the score to count.

[rgk5]

He does not look like one, he is one.

[cugolf14]

Another vote for 61.

[2bGood]

tournament record and course record always seems like the best way to handle this.

[marmaduk]

If the Head Pro isn’t honouring it how can you have a parade?!?

[ebrasmus21]

Pro is now honoring 61

[MtlJeff]

Well Watney just tested positive for COVID so won't be playing for 2-3 weeks. Pro was probably like "people will forget about Watney" over the next month.

[bnperrone]

I absolutely consider 61 the record. That said, if somebody gets a hole-in-one playing as a single I still consider it a hole-in-one. It went in. He shot 61.

Regardless of the validity of the "tournament" requirement, nothing guarantees the setup was harder. Sunday pins are only out on Sunday. Double-cut greens are faster, but they're also gonna be double-rolled and truer. It's not just automatically harder. Pressure? What if it was Sunday and a player blew up and shot themself completely out of it on Saturday. No pressure then...

[ebrasmus21]

With Nick contracting the Covid our pro probably figures he’s a goner, time to move

[Mudguard]

I disagree, most official records have to be in competition here. And official doesn't have to be that rigorous. But strokeplay, full length of the course etc and marked. How did five other players witness it? Was he playing in a six ball? I still don't see why it can't simply be an unofficial record. I think the course record where I play was set in pro event. But I'm sure that was with the course at a par of 71 too, they played a short par five as a par four. So I'm not sure where that leaves us plebs.

As for hole in ones, well if you're by yourself, you're practicing. And as someone who hasn't had one, my biggest fear is making one by myself

[ebrasmus21]

The pins today at our club were a site to see. I’m not sure what the members did to offend the greens crew but we had 7 pins today that were less than one flag length on.... no tournament, just a Sunday.

[bnperrone]

Your pro making sure nobody went out and shot 60 today.

[ebrasmus21]

As to your shock and horror - yes - it was a six ball being played when the 61 was shot. Regretfully our course is known for allowing sixsomes. As long as pace of play is kept they are allowed.

Our pro makes some interesting decisions.

[Mudguard]

Ugh. I've no problem with six balls. As long as I'm not behind them. I mean realistically, how quickly can a six play? No gimmes, keep the pace of play up? I mean I have no issue with someone shooting a good score, but most people accept that there are certain requirements. 61 off the shortest tee? Still a 61.

[Mudguard]

Ugh. I've no problem with six balls. As long as I'm not behind them. I mean realistically, how quickly can a six play? No gimmes, keep the pace of play up? I mean I have no issue with someone shooting a good score, but most people accept that there are certain requirements. 61 off the shortest tee? Still a 61.