Penalty & Drop Questions

[chrisf60526]

All...apologies for the basic questions but i have been losing a ton of balls lately and realized i don't really understand the rules fully. I have looked at a few videos but still can't figure this out.

Three quick questions.

On a standard shot from the fairway or rough or even if i'm driving, let's say i put one into the woods. There is no way i could find it and i have a general where it went in. Now i know that i can take a provisional on the drive. The rule as i read it is that i drop no closer to the hole on a line to the flag. So, does this mean that i can drop one in the fairway (no closer to the hole) or is it two club lengths from where i think it went in (most likely in the rough)

Let's say on your approach shot, you fly one over the green into the woods. There is very little room between the woods and the green. How do you drop this? Would it be two club lengths from where i think it went in? I would think it'd have to be lateral. as otherwise it'll be closer to the hole.

What about if you are approaching a green and land one in the water to the side of the hole? Same drop as above?

Thanks in advance!

Chris

[Sawgrass]

Chris, regarding lost or OB balls, none of the drops you describe are legal UNLESS the course or the competition instituted local rule E-5.

That rule is complicated, and you don’t have it right. Here is a link to the E-5 rule, and after reading it and studying the several diagrams, repost additional questions and people will help more. One more thing, if you know your ball ends up in a pond, you must take R 17 penalty area relief options, not E-5 options.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=8&subrulenum=5

[JimmyC59]

A lost ball requires a "stroke and distance" penalty. You must replay the shot. If you hit a provisional, it then becomes the ball in play, lying three.

A ball lost in a water hazard, you can take a drop two clublengths from the pount it crossed the hazard line, no closer to the hole OR take a drop along a line behind the point it crossed the hazard as far back as you want, keeping the point it crossed the hazard between the ball and the hole

 

[rogolf]

Not quite complete or correct. There are two types of penalty areas (formerly water hazards) - those marked yellow and those marked red.

For yellow penalty areas there are two options, both with a one stroke penalty

stroke and distance - play again from where you made your last stroke (the one that put the ball into the penalty area)back-on-the-line - drop a ball behind the penalty area on a straight line formed by the flagstick and the point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area (actually drop within one club-length of a point on that straight line)For a red penalty area, there are three options, the two above, plus

lateral relief - drop a ball within two club-lengths of the point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area, but no nearer the hole than that point.

[JimmyC59]

Yeah, I was at work and tried to quickly cover the basics.

[Augster]

When you say “woods” do you mean actual woods with nothing marked? If you are talking about a tree lined area with red stakes running down the side of the hole, those are no longer “woods”, those are penalty areas. I will assume you are talking about actual woods that aren’t marked.

When you put one into the “woods” (okay I can’t take it anymore as “woods” isn’t defined.) let me start over. When you hit a ball that may be lost outside a PA, or OB, you have a few options. First, declare a provisional ball and retee, or rehit from the same spot within a CL if you’re not on a tee box. This gives you the option to play your original ball and abandon the provisional ball if you find the original in play. Second, you can just put a new ball in play from the previous spot. This removes the option to play your original ball if you happen to find it . Third, if you’re playing with local rule E-5, you have the option to try to find your original, and if you don’t, take 2PS and drop about where the lost ball would be, or within 2CL from the edge of the fairway no closer than that spot, or in an area between the two spots. It’s complicated to explain, but easy to do on the course.

 

 

[Newby]

 You say:Now i know that i can take a provisional on the drive. The rule as i read it is that i drop no closer to the hole on a line to the flag. So, does this mean that i can drop one in the fairway (no closer to the hole) or is it two club lengths from where i think it went in (most likely in the rough)

Are you confusing 'taking a provisional' with the new local rule for a lost ball?Taking a provisional means playing another ball from the same place with a penalty stroke.

[chrisf60526]

Thanks all and indeed it is confusing. This is more for recreational golf where going back to the tee box is not an option. I think @Augster definition is what i am thinking. Third, if you’re playing with local rule E-5, you have the option to try to find your original, and if you don’t, take 2PS and drop about where the lost ball would be, or within 2CL from the edge of the fairway no closer than that spot, or in an area between the two spots. It’s complicated to explain, but easy to do on the course.
What i am more referring to is when you are on the tee box and hit a bad drive where you think it is lost. Let's say there is a 50-50 chance you may find the ball. You walk or drive out the the spot you think the ball went in. I know i can take a provisional and re hit under penalty.
Give the picture below, as an example, from a course near me. Lets say i hit a wayward drive or even a fairway shot and it land by that red X. Let's assume the course is not marked and there is a bunch of fescue grass there. I take a quick look and there is no way i am going to find the ball. Now, in tournament golf, perhaps i go back to the tee and re hit. This doesn't happen in rec golf.
So, i have a few options. Do i drop by the orange dot, in the fairway, which is no closer to the hole (and this is how i read the rule) or B. AM i required to drop 2 club lengths from where i believe the ball crossed in the (woods) etc by the blue dot. The blue dot may be some rough with the 2 club lengths.
This is the video that i initially watched which has me wondering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Puxb51tenM


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[Argonne69]

If the local rule is in effect, you can drop it anywhere within the arc from the blue dot to the orange dot (2 club lengths from the edge of the fairway). Normally the fairway would be the best option, but there may be tree limbs in your way. Somewhere between the blue and orange dots may give you a straight shot to the flag. In addition, you can go back as far as you want within the relief area. Dropping near the arc between the ball and fairway reference points may give you an awkward yardage. You may elect to go back to a distance that gives you a preferred yardage.

 

[Newby]

Identify where you think your ball is. Take an arc towards the fairway, based on the flagstick. Extend that line by two clublengths at each end. Drop anywhere behind that line.

[Sawgrass]

. . . anywhere behind that line that’s in the general area.

[sui generis]

How do we know that? ?

[Sawgrass]

From the model local rule segment:But with these limits:Limits on Location of Relief Area:

Must be in the general area, andMust not be nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

[sui generis]

Thanks, pal. It's all there somewhere. ?

[Sawgrass]

You’re welcome, and isn’t it a shame we can’t drop our lost ball in that nearby, unraked bunker?

[sui generis]

Or, in the weeds by the creek. (TLR in my club for LCP in all bunkers. You might wonder why they have good Local Rules and Temporary Local Rules. Well, the Director of Golf is amenable to a little help on those matters.)