"Overpowering" the shaft

[shanx]

I have made good progress with some changes made over the winter and spring. I have gained yardage as a result, and sometimes its a bit of a shocker to fly pins. I have worked on my grip, and getting the lower body more involved (serious casting problem). Now I hit a nice draw instead of weak, flared cuts.

Since I have made these changes, my "miss" is a pull hook, starts left, and keeps going left, mostly with the lower irons.

I'm playing Mizzy heads on KBS C Taper Lite shafts in stiff flex, which I love the feel, but they are softer tipped.

Is it possible that I am "overpowering" the softer tipped shafts? I was messing around with a set that was loaded with R300s, and the same things happened with those shafts. I have a set of shafts with a firmer tip, I will build up a set with those this week.

I hit my 9iron ~145yds.

 

[jons1]

You’re still over the top based on flight described, you’re squaring the face better so it’s not open to path as well.

In theory you can over power a shaft but it would require a more violent transition or are very soft shaft. Based on distances an s300 might make more sense than a regular, but the direction issues are still primarily a swing imperfection. A softer shaft can promote more draw, so it’s worth trying in addition to working on a more inside to out swing path.

[Myherobobhope]

Anecdotal: I played regular flex steel shafts with a 110+ mph driver speed... and played the best golf of my life. I also spent three months doing nothing BUT playing and practicing... The shafts weren't ideal, but I made them work.
That said, I do spend time now getting fit into proper shafts as they do maximize performance... there is no reason not to if you are buying new clubs... but don't chase gear fixes to improve your golf game.
As @golfpros1 says, your results are going to be more swing driven than anything else... Make sure your path is good first. Then start toying with different shafts.

[Nessism]

Pull hooks are not caused by soft shafts. It's a swing issue (one I'm quite familiar with.)

[DarthFader17]

As others have mentioned, it could still be a swing flaw. However, it can also be something as simple as ball position. ensure the ball is not too far forward. We as humans are not built for the weird angles that Golf throws at us. As we transition from mid-irons to short-irons, or driver to irons etc, the angles look different. What feels square and central on a mid iron, could very well be closed and forward on a short iron..

Always start with ball position. Experiment with a couple of them. Go TOO FAR forward (pull/hook), then go TOO FAR back (push slice), then try in the middle. Also, if you have a trusted golf buddy, you can ask them if your setup position looks correct in your short irons. Is the ball centered or back? Do you look square or closed? (note that closing your stance will push the ball forward in your stance).

 

Once you are 100% sure that it is not ball position, then you can begin looking at your club face/swing patch interaction. It's very unlikely to be gear effect at 145 yard 9 iron., and a good rule of thumb is to make gear effect the very last thing you alter and generally speaking, your not trying to "fix" things with gear, your trying to "improve" something already on the correct path.

 

Hope this makes sense! Glad to hear your making progress in this game! There is nothing better than seeing results after hard work, but it is also the thing that can be so discouraging when we run into a speed bump! I know I was relieved when I found out that ball position is almost always the culprit for me!

 

Thanks,

[North Butte]

Agreed.

I could name a handful of old guys in my regular group who couldn't overpower a wet noodle, yet every round features several pull-hooked iron shots and even the occasional pull-hooked driver.

My own name would be on that list. But unlike me, I think some of these guys had a good draw swing when they were young and limber and could make a deep turn then swing from the inside. Now they make almost no turn at all and come OTT but with the same closed clubface they've always had.

My own specialty is to sway off the ball then hang back and fire the arms through and around with no forward weight shift during the downswing. With a 4-iron or 5-iron the results can be pretty impressive...but not in a good way.

[kmck15]

I am also a serial pull hooker of the ball and it has always been my primary miss, even after moving to x100s (with a driver ss of ~110) the misses are still big left. While a stiffer shaft may help the ball to draw a little less, no shaft on the planet will square your club for you.

[ChipNRun]

As for your irons, I would say it's a swing problem. The stiff C-Taper Lights should work for you. In taper-tip stiff, it's a constant-weight shaft at 110 grams, with a stiff tip. (Did you have the shafts softstepped?)

You note that your misses are low and left, not all shots. Again, this can be tied to O-T-T. But since it's occasional, I would say you may swing too easy on certain shots and don't engage the lower body properly. Your hands get out ahead, and shot flies low and left. This can happen on pressure shots, when a golfer thinks "nice and easy" at address, but overdoes it.

Ensure you are taking a full backswing, and then let your hips pull your arms and clubhead through the ball. This is just what you have been working on recently. Focus on your form, and see if the problem goes away.

And, let us know how things shake out for you.

[shanx]

Great stuff here, thanks everyone. It's kinda funny how I am quick to blame the shafts, but I just remembered the same thing happening when I was hitting the set with R300s in them.

After a few seasons of missing everything to the right and falling short, it's funny that now it's to the left and too long!

I'm going to hit the range and straighten it out.

I had a very weak grip, and was hitting things to the right, so my alignment may be off. I also had the ball way too far forward for the lower irons, I have been moving the ball back for them.

I probably should spend less time on the course, and more time at the range...

 

 

 

[DarthFader17]

I can understand your sentiment here, but I have to disagree a little. Dependent on how little you spend on the range. The range is good for drilling, but nothing "locks in" your game like actually playing...even if you can only do 3-5 holes. One of the best things you can do is find a time near the close of the course when it's more open and start dropping lots of balls on course. The problem with "Range time" is once your eyes adjust to the angles, you'll begin repeating shots with ease. It takes going on the golf course, seeing all the different lies and angles to "groove" your swing (IMHO). Range is great and necessary, and you do need to spend a fair amount of time there, but I think it's about a 4:1 ratio. For every four hrs on course, 1 hr on the range....the chipping green and putting green will shave the most amount of strokes off your game, but if your like me, and enjoyment from the game does not solely come from score, but rather from the "feeling" and "sound" of well struck shots, then range time will serve you well...Again, on-course "practice" is the quickest most effective way to learn this stupid game.

 

Keep going man, it sounds like your on a great path!

[shanx]

Funny, I did that last round. Finished 18, but jumped right back on the tenth tee and started again. Tee shot, then hit approach shots (about 10 balls), picked 'em up, repeated on the next hole. It was getting dark, but I got into a good groove...

I'm working on too many "new ideas" it seems. The new grip, new and improved swing from lessons this winter, as well as trying to get the feel of "slinging" the club with super light grip pressure. I try to play with an unclouded head, but the swing thoughts start to pile up when I am waggling..

 

All good though...

 

[mgoblue83]

Sounds like many of us are quite familiar with the pull hooks (lol) and I agree that this is not a shaft issue. I also want to point out that "slinging" the club is a surefire way to roll it over shut and hitting it left going left. The best iron plays keep the blade square for a long time through the hitting zone which is impossible with that slinging action.

[nsxguy]

@ChipNRun got it. He said "You note that your misses are low and left, not all shots. Again, this can be tied to O-T-T. But since it's occasional, I would say you may swing too easy on certain shots and don't engage the lower body properly. Your hands get out ahead, and shot flies low and left. This can happen on pressure shots, when a golfer thinks "nice and easy" at address, but overdoes it"
FWIW I totally agree. Especially with the "nice and easy". It's my miss. OK, one of 'em. LOL
And you mention "getting the lower body more involved". Struck a nerve with me as well.
The way I look at it is how Chip described it. You mess up your normal tempo and often, when trying to "ease one", your arms outrace your lower body to the ball. Instead of the clubface squaring to the ball,,,,,,, it gets there a bit too early and is closing because the lower body isn't "moving".
Recovering from an operation last year it's happened to me so often that recently my pre-shot thoughts include "Weight forward" (to me meaning "Lower body"). So long as I get the lower body weight "forward" on time it ain't going hard left.

Now, shafts. I swing my driver at a puny 93 mph. I hit my 9 iron 130,,,,,, with Dynamic Golf S300s. 130 gram weight shafts. Shafts, IMO, are far more important than flex. One manufacturer's "R" is another's "S",,,,,,,, or "A". They can't weight a shaft differently. LOL I tried MANY different shafts and weights. The DGS300s "cost" me about 2 yards from the longest shaft in the bunch but dispersion was MUCH tighter. No brainer for me.
Based strictly on your 145 yard 9 iron I'd think you'd want to at least try a heavier shaft than the C-Taper lite (105 in "R").
Good luck !!!

[ChipNRun]

@nsxguy,
More thoughts on lower body: I have trouble with an arthritic right hip - it would stiffen up on back nine and change my swing. I got really good physical therapy in January, with exercises for flexibility and strengthening or area.
One thing I noticed: when I lead with the hips and really pop them forward, a pick up 10 yards on my iron shots. And, distance is more consistent.
A few years back, one online golf pro decried the emergence of the "chairborne Ranger", the modern American office commando who does most of his or her work seated at a computer. Without a good fitness routine, the "chairborne" end up with very strong thighs (getting up and down from chair) but poor strength and flexibility in the back and hips.Plus, people just don't walk as much as they did even in the Boomer era. And, these conditions combine to cause problems in generating power for a golf swing.
Anyway, actually leading with the hips requires a decided effort, and some golfers need fitness training to really activate the hips and back.
That's one reason I'm really upset with Illinois governor JB Pritzker for designating fitness gyms as non-essential. Because of him, I'm losing ground on my PT benefits because I can only do stretches and isometrics - I don't have access to the gym equipment to do isolation exercises on targeted muscles.
In closing, many exercise routines for golfers can become part of a general fitness program for adults.

[Howard_Jones]

Pull hooks is club head path and face angle, NOT shaft flex, BUT a part of it could be as simple as lie angles that too upright, so start with a lie angle test using a line on the ball. (never use lie boards).

If lie angles is good, next is your grip or "how strong" you place your lowest hand. Loosen up to a "weaker grip" with the lowest hand, or try a grip with less taper or more diameter for the lowest hand (+4 grips).

Depending on play length and ball position, our path moves from in to out in the long end, to a path thats out to in, in the short end, and combined with a face angle, we get a pull when face angle is neutral, and a pull hook when its closed to path.

Start with a lie angle test '(who dont cause this, but can make it worse if its too upright), next is the lowest hand on the grip and how strong or weak it is.