Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[Hawkeye77]

46 minutes ago, dcl5dcl5 said:

 

I would absolutely recommend Efficient Swing - I would look at this as an expansion of Efficient Swing. The NTC is a great expansion of Segment 2:Left Arm Parallel and Segment 4: Transition. The Efficient Swing helps you build a backswing and transition and this is just an enhancement of that with a few new thoughts in great detail. I highly recommend both and I always go back to Efficient Swing. I'm glad I own both. Hope that helps. They are definitely not the same video.

Ditto. 

[flipmode]

57 minutes ago, dcl5dcl5 said:

 

I would absolutely recommend Efficient Swing - I would look at this as an expansion of Efficient Swing. The NTC is a great expansion of Segment 2:Left Arm Parallel and Segment 4: Transition. The Efficient Swing helps you build a backswing and transition and this is just an enhancement of that with a few new thoughts in great detail. I highly recommend both and I always go back to Efficient Swing. I'm glad I own both. Hope that helps. They are definitely not the same video.

Sold! Lol thank u all for the replies

[HateTheHighDraw]

The vid and concept really has seemed to fix my ballstriking woes, but now I’m pulling hooking my wedges. I mean hitting them pure as hell but left of left - anyone experiencing this? Mid irons are dead straight

[CasualLie]

2 hours ago, HateTheHighDraw said:

The vid and concept really has seemed to fix my ballstriking woes, but now I’m pulling hooking my wedges. I mean hitting them pure as hell but left of left - anyone experiencing this? Mid irons are dead straight

 

I'm guessing you are hinging too much with the wedge, and when you unload that it is coming into the ball with too much left move.  Try to keep that 90 degree you get at left arm parallel, or closer to it with the wedge.

[aenemated]

Took this to the range tonight after working on primarily the "cast" to 8 o'clock here at home and just ... wow.

 

It's the same thing Monte was working on with me in person before the shutdown. I've been working on the same feels but this presentation really clicked for me. I think largely because I finally felt totally comfortable with the OTHER changes he'd suggested and then this just fit right into it. Just the thought of "throwing" it behind me was the right "thought." 

 

First handful of swings were ... straight up hosel rockets. Kept with it and after about 10-15 balls, I started to really feel it all click. I could totally feel the cast motion to 8 o'clock forcing me to hold my shoulders back while my hips rotated through and the clubhead falling down behind me and inside and REALLY getting me onto my left side; a thing I'd been recently struggling a bit with. Felt effortless and EASILY more speed than I've been used to.

 

It was under the lights at the range so it was hard to get a real judgement of the distance but my 5 iron trajectory LOOKED the same as my 5W normally would. My typical pull hook miss was effectively gone, really great trajectory on everything and the most exciting bit ... I could actually hit a freakin fade again. By the end of the 2nd bucket, it felt like I wasn't even trying and was hitting the ball about as well as I ever have. 

 

Stellar work with this one, Monte. And anyone on the fence about kickin' up the $18 or whatever ... man, do it. 

[coops]

8 hours ago, HateTheHighDraw said:

The vid and concept really has seemed to fix my ballstriking woes, but now I’m pulling hooking my wedges. I mean hitting them pure as hell but left of left - anyone experiencing this? Mid irons are dead straight

 

 

Maybe (maybe!) it's due to not getting onto your left side -  an old fault of mine, can lead to horrible pull hooks and duck hooks with a driver. It's easy to be concentrating so much on the hand and wrist move that I sometimes forget to bump over to my left side properly with a driver ro wedges...hope Monte can chime in also but for me:-

 

At the start of the Cast A drill section, Monte mentions how the cast happens while also some move to left side in transition... if I 'forgot' to bump to my left in transition then i'd be 'behind' and too much on my right foot coming to impact and get over and left.

 

So, I feel when I transition I need to bump left and this is when I feel I start doing the cast A towards 8 o'clock - so the slight body move left towards target almost feels like it's offset or opposed by the cast A in the rather opposite direction. 

 

After that, for me - I feel the Cast B is achieved by thinking/feeling more of the left leg pushing the left hip back and up to clear the hips (my arms can move fast enough without thinking about them due to years of being stuck and the arms having to go fast to rescue the situation and get the clubhead to the ball somehow... ?  )... here's the Malaska video which describes the hip movement i'm talking about (and will cut through the misunderstanding of hip tirn or spinning the hips)

 

 

 

It worked extremely well at the course after only one range session.

Also, with the pre-set Cast A drill... I found i could get surprisingly decent results with a bit of a 'pump' move like was always recommended in the Faldo/Leadbetter Pump drill... so once you've unhinged and flexed the left/right wrist then a wee pump down and little coil back to initiate the drill swing and make it a bit more fluid feeling.

I'd kind of tried the 'motorcycle' move before... a few times, but never could really do it - now i realise because it wasn't in tandem with that un@ck move which then allows for the wrist to flex 

Edited August 29, 2020 by coops

[yycpaul]

Where (in terms of vertical) are you guys throwing to for the throw to 8 o'clock? JakeHunt has a throw straight up ( https://www.instagram.com/tv/B_Vif0-FREP/?igshid=1nk8pg5y1fnxl ), or ar you throwing more straight back horizontally towards 8. (ie 9 o'clock from a face on view)

[Weetbix]

Played today with the only thought to be to start the swing by hinging to swing the club head back all the way to the end of the backswing and then to throw the clubhead behind me (probably more to 7 than 8 bit didn't want to add and extra complication)

 

Struck the ball fairly well and managed an 8 over 79 off 12 with no wipes - great start after only 2 range sessions 

 

Hopefully it's a good sign and will be onwards and upwards from here

I'll expect to keep working on the different parts of Monte's instruction but hopefully I can keep the keys simple like today when playing

[Hawkeye77]

8 hours ago, yycpaul said:

Where (in terms of vertical) are you guys throwing to for the throw to 8 o'clock? JakeHunt has a throw straight up ( https://www.instagram.com/tv/B_Vif0-FREP/?igshid=1nk8pg5y1fnxl ), or ar you throwing more straight back horizontally towards 8. (ie 9 o'clock from a face on view)

 

Spend the $18 and you will know.  

[yycpaul]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Spend the $18 and you will know.  

I have, guess I'll be rewatching. Thanks for the help.

[yycpaul]

12 hours ago, yycpaul said:

Where (in terms of vertical) are you guys throwing to for the throw to 8 o'clock? JakeHunt has a throw straight up ( https://www.instagram.com/tv/B_Vif0-FREP/?igshid=1nk8pg5y1fnxl ), or ar you throwing more straight back horizontally towards 8. (ie 9 o'clock from a face on view)

 

Rewatching and if you pause "12. Cast B - instruction.mov" @ 0:12/2:42 Monte has a graphic of the direction the hands(?) should go for the first cast. If I have it in my mind to move that direction of the illustrated line I seem to pull the handle rather than cast the clubhead towards 8. My feel to get that position is to throw the club head 90 degrees to that line. 

[games]

2 hours ago, yycpaul said:

 

Rewatching and if you pause "12. Cast B - instruction.mov" @ 0:12/2:42 Monte has a graphic of the direction the hands(?) should go for the first cast. If I have it in my mind to move that direction of the illustrated line I seem to pull the handle rather than cast the clubhead towards 8. My feel to get that position is to throw the club head 90 degrees to that line. 

 

In a prior post, I read you own Efficient Swing.  Check out ES drill 4.4 "Point the Club."  (Was watching it this morning for reference for some stuff I'm working on related to NTC.)

[Swingchaser]

Ive been struggling with inconsistent ball striking for 20 years. I’ve probably watched every YouTube golf instruction video out there but not got anywhere. I’ve just had the worst golfing summer ever, hitting it like a complete beginner at times with wicked slices, tops, fats, pulls, total embarrassment really with 3 or 4 lost balls per round. I’ve spent most of this year trying to work on a swing model promoted on line that involves stalling the body and releasing with arms and hands but it just wasn’t working for me. I recently remembered that a while back I had purchased the driving series from Monty and after logging in to check it out again the no turn cast videos caught my eye. I thought what the hell, nothing to lose at that price so made the purchase. Very simple concept and easy to watch, remember and take to the course. This I did the next day and WOW. By the third hole I was hitting it better than I have in ages. Hit some shockers when I got too aggressive with the cast to 8 but after ten holes practice I was buzzing. Never hit so many straight shots in succession. A few days later played a Full round And my ball striking was amazing. Had no confidence with driver for years but was hitting it straight down the middle. Same with woods and hybrids from fairway. The strike feels good and solid but there’s still a lot more distance to be had as I’m still at least 50 yards behind my playing partner. Massive improvement for me though with all my woods and hybrids but slight distance loss with irons and wedges. Early days though as at the moment I’m just casting to 7 or 8 and just thinking turn. I’m probably missing the hip bump and I’m not yet thinking about the cast to twelve. I think I’m about to start enjoying golf again though

[chipa]

44 minutes ago, Swingchaser said:

Ive been struggling with inconsistent ball striking for 20 years. I’ve probably watched every YouTube golf instruction video out there but not got anywhere. I’ve just had the worst golfing summer ever, hitting it like a complete beginner at times with wicked slices, tops, fats, pulls, total embarrassment really with 3 or 4 lost balls per round. I’ve spent most of this year trying to work on a swing model promoted on line that involves stalling the body and releasing with arms and hands but it just wasn’t working for me. I recently remembered that a while back I had purchased the driving series from Monty and after logging in to check it out again the no turn cast videos caught my eye. I thought what the hell, nothing to lose at that price so made the purchase. Very simple concept and easy to watch, remember and take to the course. This I did the next day and WOW. By the third hole I was hitting it better than I have in ages. Hit some shockers when I got too aggressive with the cast to 8 but after ten holes practice I was buzzing. Never hit so many straight shots in succession. A few days later played a Full round And my ball striking was amazing. Had no confidence with driver for years but was hitting it straight down the middle. Same with woods and hybrids from fairway. The strike feels good and solid but there’s still a lot more distance to be had as I’m still at least 50 yards behind my playing partner. Massive improvement for me though with all my woods and hybrids but slight distance loss with irons and wedges. Early days though as at the moment I’m just casting to 7 or 8 and just thinking turn. I’m probably missing the hip bump and I’m not yet thinking about the cast to twelve. I think I’m about to start enjoying golf again though

 

A good compliment to that drill (setting the hands early) is to swing back and forth repeatedly while feeling the feet getting involved in the swing. Also, I recommend you focus on keeping your arms bent right before address so tension doesn't creep up in the arms plus you can focus on your stance being springy and balanced. George Knudson sets his hands early and has a very coordinated action with his feet. I would look at his videos and try to match his tempo but not necessarily his mechanics because you need to feel the tension in the hands and they arms as they load and release against the feet as opposed to worrying too much what the club is doing other than it needs to set early.

 

Also, the no turn cast drill (setting the hands early) is how most better players learned to play golf as children (according to a pga pro I met) doing short swings and mastering the hand and arm mechanics of the takeaway. In fact most pros still set their hands early on half swings and bunker shots. There are a few pros that do it as well for their full swing. IMO this is quite possibly the most difficult thing for most amateurs to master. Unfortunately very few teaching pros recognize the importance of this coordinated movement and as a consequence most don't understand why almost all amateurs swing the way they do. This is evident in teaching concepts like "one swing for every club" when most pros don't even have that or the "triangle takeaway" extending the arms away from the body as long as possible into the backswing (and hoping the hands somehow connect before impact).

Edited August 30, 2020 by chipa

[PepsiDuck]

I started working with Monte a little over six years ago, and this is the video and the knowledge I wish he had back then.  It's been quite a journey over the last few years, going from all-in with Monte to a bit of this and a bit of that; over the last year, I went rogue and tinkered with a bunch of things on my own.  Unfortunately, this tinkering almost always made its way out onto the golf course, which made for some extremely frustrating rounds where I'd try different swing methods, grips, backswing, transitions, downswings, etc., sometimes switching up mid-hole.  Not the way to play golf.  

 

My normal routine was: (1) try something on the range on Monday with great success, (2) go to range Tuesday through Friday with the same method and same success, (3) get to the course on Saturday with excitement that I finally have it figured it, (4) warm up on the range and feel great about the swing I've grooved over the past week, (5) hit my first drive OB and not be able to find that swing again, (6) spend 16 holes tinkering until I find something new that works, (7) play the last two holes great and take that swing to the range on Monday.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Having been working "mostly" with the Manuel de la Torre method over the past few months, I always felt there was something missing in its simplicity.  Monte has filled in those holes with this video.  The base premise is the same, but Monte adds a little more precision with his descriptions and places emphasis on wrist movement through the swing; something which is assumed to just happen with MDLT.  I feel the "cast" allows me to fully leverage my Hulk Smash potential.  I'm going to dedicate myself to this for at least six months and keep up with this thread.

 

I had my first range session focusing solely on the No Turn Cast today, and it was...good.  My first observation is that the backswing is the key to all of this.  Once you get to 7 correctly, the rest is basically automatic.

[Hawkeye77]

8 hours ago, yycpaul said:

 

Rewatching and if you pause "12. Cast B - instruction.mov" @ 0:12/2:42 Monte has a graphic of the direction the hands(?) should go for the first cast. If I have it in my mind to move that direction of the illustrated line I seem to pull the handle rather than cast the clubhead towards 8. My feel to get that position is to throw the club head 90 degrees to that line. 

 

Go back to section 8 for intro/concepts, then 9 where it is demonstrated explicitly showing club and proper wrist movement.  Should lay it out pretty well.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[PepsiDuck]

Observation #2...coming from the MDLT approach of using the arms to swing the club toward the target, I have to fight the urge to pull down with the arms and forget to do Cast A...

[coops]

Observation #3 ?

 

As a bonus... doing Monte Cast A will create the correct wrist movement needed for the Impact Snap training aid created by Kelvin Miyahara... ulnar deviation and all that other good stuff

 

I'd got this device some time ago out of curiosity, but was never really ok with it... now I suspect because I wasn't trying to do the required moves immediately after/during transition - as Monte says in the video, you need to intend to do it straight away but it actually will happen later... doing it from P5/P6 as per most impact snap video tutorial never felt like I had enough time before impact to do it. Do it as per Monte's cast A and that impact snap moves perfectly into position.

 

[chipa]

3 hours ago, PepsiDuck said:

Having been working "mostly" with the Manuel de la Torre method over the past few months, I always felt there was something missing in its simplicity.  Monte has filled in those holes with this video.  The base premise is the same, but Monte adds a little more precision with his descriptions and places emphasis on wrist movement through the swing; something which is assumed to just happen with MDLT.  I feel the "cast" allows me to fully leverage my Hulk Smash potential.  I'm going to dedicate myself to this for at least six months and keep up with this thread.

 

 

I ran into the same thing following MLDT's method when trying to understand how the hands need to work during the takeaway because I had been taught to do the one piece takeaway and hold it as long as possible and while I could sometimes really bomb the longer clubs I wasn't accurate nor could never hit a short iron. My friends used to kid me that I'd drive it 280 and then shank or chunk my approach. 

 

The reality is Manny was very specific in how the hands should work in the takeway, ie they should be pointing back early in the takeaway to get the club pointing back and be in a position to set as well. However, apparently this was not written anywhere but something he physically showed his students which is how I found this out(on youtube). It's possible pros that teach his method would show their students how the hands should move/rotate during the takeaway but I haven't found evidence that anything has been written about it. I have asked questions on the MLDT thread regarding this only to have been shut down various times by Manny's storm troopers who apparently are determined to prevent this info from coming to light, haha.

Edited August 31, 2020 by chipa

[acekun]

Got an email that Monte put his Drive 4 Dough on sale as well. I've already purchased Efficient Swing and No Turn Cast. Anyone who has all 3 and do you think it makes sense to buy that as well? Thx

[Miggaletoe]

Question in regards to the staying closed / shifting in the downswing. 

 

I have tried this feel before and always ended up feeling like I was ending up too far in front of the ball laterally. Is there some idea/thought/checkpoint to accomplish the lateral shift without going too far  or doing anything weird?

[Rictor33]

Went to the range again today after working on some feels in my apt (live in NYC so hard to find room/time to practice) and wow what a huge difference. I'm still struggling with certain aspects and am still getting some OTT if I cast too late and towards 6, but wow my ball striking was much improved despite having a lot to clean up. This is a great framework, especially for someone like me who has struggled so mightily to get the club flat in the downswing. The transition from the backswing to the downswing is a little jerky as I tend to lift the arms which makes the cast move a little more difficult to execute as I have to drop the hands and then cast. I'm pleased with my small progress and feel like I'm actually working towards a better swing for the first time in two years since I made the decision to rebuild my swing and get serious about golf

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Rictor33

[dcl5dcl5]

3 hours ago, acekun said:

Got an email that Monte put his Drive 4 Dough on sale as well. I've already purchased Efficient Swing and No Turn Cast. Anyone who has all 3 and do you think it makes sense to buy that as well? Thx

 

Personally, I really like Drive 4 Dough because it goes beyond the backswing and transition. No Turn Cast compliments Efficient Swing, which is really about start of swing to getting to transition. Drive 4 Dough completes the swing for me, since it helps me understand how Monte views the other parts of the swing, as well as highlighting the nuances for driver. Pretty low cost risk to try it. 

[games]

10 hours ago, chipa said:

I have asked questions on the MLDT thread regarding this only to have been shut down various times by Manny's storm troopers who apparently are determined to prevent this info from coming to light, haha.

 

Stormtroopers?  No.  Just people interested to keep a simple swing concept simple, despite your best attempts to make it complicated.

 

You're already starting this thread off with some type of claim that NTC is an early set of the hands, which suggests you haven't watched the video under discussion...

Edited August 31, 2020 by games

[Puttersaurus Rex]

Was able to play nine yesterday after practicing the NTC last week.  I still have difficulty with the thought of casting at the top of my swing.  Instead, I have implemented my "cast" during the back swing instead.  Cast towards 7/8 at the last motion in my back swing, then release to 12.

 

Results don't lie.  I did not fade or slice once.  Had mostly draws, or straight shots.  My bad shots off the tee were when I was OTT.  The best drive of the day was a nice draw that resulted in my longest drive recorded on that hole!

 

Perfect timing for me to find this, and start to implement.  Thank you Monte, and to everyone else for the positive reviews!

[chipa]

39 minutes ago, games said:

 

Stormtroopers?  No.  Just people interested to keep a simple swing concept simple, despite your best attempts to make it complicated.

 

You're already starting this thread off with some type of claim that NTC is an early set of the hands, which suggests you haven't watched the video under discussion...

 

Asking questions if Manny ever described in detail the takeaway sequence he showed one of his students in one of his videos may appear scandalous to some, ok.

 

Below is Monte's video I pulled up on youtube given that I could not see the other video apparently because it is a paid for video. Please explain to me the difference between this and setting the hands early.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by chipa

[flipmode]

Second range session yesterday. Misses were still massive blocks to the right. Without giving too much away in the video...I think its my left wrist needed to do what it needs to do in cast A. What are your thoughts?

[acekun]

23 minutes ago, flipmode said:

Second range session yesterday. Misses were still massive blocks to the right. Without giving too much away in the video...I think its my left wrist needed to do what it needs to do in cast A. What are your thoughts?

 

Agree, that is likely the problem. If thinking about the left wrist is difficult in cast A, it could also probably be fixed with cast B. Monte says in the video that all pro players do that move but some do it early while others do it late. 

[bortass]

I watched through the entire video Friday. Monte tells one of the students something along the lines of 'see how your irons are lower".   Has anyone noticed a change is ball flight?

 

I haven't worked on NTC yet but was having a rough round Saturday and decided I had nothing to lose and did my best to try to cast like Monte explains. I tend to hit my irons high. I hit a low draw over the green with my 7i, 157 yards, with my first attempt. My 7i is my 135-140 club normally. A few holes later I hit another 7i that's a touch higher and it goes 154 and lands on the back of the green with a front pin...  I'm wondering if the ball flight I'm seeing at times is more 'normal'. 

 

 

[Soloman1]

"Please explain to me the difference between this and setting the hands early."

 

Sure, you're adding the word "early' for no reason.

What, you want to set them late?

Or not set them at all?