Miracle Swing Experience( former My Swing Evolution) is a Charlatan!

[ElMacho]

5 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

If you guys were teaching Christo to be more Hogan-ish, what would you tell him to do? 

I would implore him to watch this:

Secret Key to Unlock Christo’s Golf Swing!
 

[virtuoso]

2 hours ago, ElMacho said:

I would implore him to watch this:

Secret Key to Unlock Christo’s Golf Swing!
 

Well that might help Christo hit the ball better, but I wouldn't call Hogan-ish. Hogan had a massive tailbone shift left and stayed closed to the target before opening later.

[powerfade66]

[powerfade66]

If he thinks Ben Hogan would do anything other than punch him in the nose if he were alive today then he is kidding himself. Constantly crapping on the legacy of these great players with his 7 handicap crap. 
 

[Orchardist]

This guy is annoying me and all I'm doing is sitting at my desk looking out the window.

[otto6457]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:04 AM, virtuoso said:

If you guys were teaching Christo to be more Hogan-ish, what would you tell him to do? 

Dress better and start smoking.

[tthomasgolfer605]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:04 AM, virtuoso said:

If you guys were teaching Christo to be more Hogan-ish, what would you tell him to do? 

Umm. Die? (Sorry, that was horrible.)

[virtuoso]

I think he is slowly starting to transition away from the Hogan theme. It will probably be that Hogan ignited the start of his swing evolution and now he has moved beyond. The new brand is OTT Miracle. He wants to take ownership of that as a product. The Hogan equip company is out of business so I assume he will start to explore new equip options. If he starts to wear different caps, that may signal the end of the Hogan phase of his evolution.

 

I actually do like his swing now. Its pretty good.

Edited September 21, 2022 by virtuoso

[powerfade66]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

I think he is slowly starting to transition away from the Hogan theme. It will probably be that Hogan ignited the start of his swing evolution and now he has moved beyond. The new brand is OTT Miracle. He wants to take ownership of that as a product. The Hogan equip company is out of business so I assume he will start to explore new equip options. If he starts to wear different caps, that may signal the end of the Hogan phase of his evolution.

 

I actually do like his swing now. Its pretty good.

He said OTT was the final piece of Hogan’s secret. 

[powerfade66]

[virtuoso]

13 minutes ago, powerfade66 said:

He said OTT was the final piece of Hogan’s secret. 

Interesting. I haven't followed it closely enough. I thought he might be trying to make it Garcia's secret.

[powerfade66]

25 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Interesting. I haven't followed it closely enough. I thought he might be trying to make it Garcia's secret.

He also paints it as he being the great saviour, coming to rescue everyone from all other golf instructors. He says it will save everyone’s backs. I’m not sure who he is referring to when he implies everyone else is teaching that you need to drop it under. I expect at least 90% of instructors would know that dropping it inside will lead to a draw/hook bias and that when they talk of shallowing it out they are not suggesting everything (hand path, shaft, clubhead etc) drops under flattens out and to hit draws. Especially with the dominant trend on tour at the moment being fades.

 

He keeps talking about how great he is playing. He should back himself and hit the mini tours. I’m surprised more teaching pros aren’t proposing challenge matches. 

[Starched]

2 hours ago, virtuoso said:

I think he is slowly starting to transition away from the Hogan theme. It will probably be that Hogan ignited the start of his swing evolution and now he has moved beyond. The new brand is OTT Miracle. He wants to take ownership of that as a product. The Hogan equip company is out of business so I assume he will start to explore new equip options. If he starts to wear different caps, that may signal the end of the Hogan phase of his evolution.

 

I actually do like his swing now. Its pretty good.

It actually isn’t. He has always early extended (massively) and lacked rotation and power. Visually and rhythm wise it looks nice but would never hold up as a swing model. It’s basically a timed arm swing. It’s not a professional swing, even remotely. 

[moehogan]

Posted on YT eleven years ago by Darius who used to post here. Been talked about for years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy_xx-cXKyA

[powerfade66]

11 minutes ago, moehogan said:

Posted on YT eleven years ago by Darius who used to post here. Been talked about for years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy_xx-cXKyA

He has popped up again not so long ago. I thought his great love of vodka may have finally done him in. 

[miamistomp]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:04 AM, virtuoso said:

If you guys were teaching Christo to be more Hogan-ish, what would you tell him to do? 

 Drive in front of a Greyhound ?? 🙈

[TheDeanAbides]

48 minutes ago, moehogan said:

Posted on YT eleven years ago by Darius who used to post here. Been talked about for years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy_xx-cXKyA

I also thought of Darius when reading of this current incarnation of Christo. 

[virtuoso]

2 hours ago, Starched said:

It actually isn’t. He has always early extended (massively) and lacked rotation and power. Visually and rhythm wise it looks nice but would never hold up as a swing model. It’s basically a timed arm swing. It’s not a professional swing, even remotely. 

yes, that's why I said its "pretty good." I didn't say "tour level." I assume he is a low single digit hdcp--for that hdcp level, it's pretty good. 

[virtuoso]

2 hours ago, powerfade66 said:

He also paints it as he being the great saviour, coming to rescue everyone from all other golf instructors. He says it will save everyone’s backs. I’m not sure who he is referring to when he implies everyone else is teaching that you need to drop it under. I expect at least 90% of instructors would know that dropping it inside will lead to a draw/hook bias and that when they talk of shallowing it out they are not suggesting everything (hand path, shaft, clubhead etc) drops under flattens out and to hit draws. Especially with the dominant trend on tour at the moment being fades.

 

He keeps talking about how great he is playing. He should back himself and hit the mini tours. I’m surprised more teaching pros aren’t proposing challenge matches. 

He would actually learn a lot more about golf if he started playing in some stroke play tournaments. Its starts to give you a more granular understanding of ways your swing can break down. The best ones would be local amateur tournaments, but he's now a golf professional so it would have to be mini-tour events. Those aren't that big of a deal, but not the best place to start playing tournament golf. Also, he would post some big numbers at first which he wouldn't want to be public domain.

[Starched]

17 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

yes, that's why I said its "pretty good." I didn't say "tour level." I assume he is a low single digit hdcp--for that hdcp level, it's pretty good. 

I agree 100% - but why charge money and hold yourself out as an amazing instructor when you aren't a PGA teaching pro and can't play at a level beyond a lot of us on here? That's the issue people have. Not his golf journey or chronicling it (he has put in a ton of work on that and has improved). No heartburn with that - it's just he continually "reinvents" the golf swing which is nothing more than what all of us learn over the years about fundamentals and our own game. Then to slap on a Hogan cap and claim he is a swing guru when in fact he is a slightly above average golfer, typical single digit guy sometimes breaking 80 on easy courses, and say "send me money!, come to my clinic! look what I have discovered!" is all just a huge crock of sh*t. That's the issue........

[virtuoso]

3 hours ago, Starched said:

I agree 100% - but why charge money and hold yourself out as an amazing instructor when you aren't a PGA teaching pro and can't play at a level beyond a lot of us on here? That's the issue people have. Not his golf journey or chronicling it (he has put in a ton of work on that and has improved). No heartburn with that - it's just he continually "reinvents" the golf swing which is nothing more than what all of us learn over the years about fundamentals and our own game. Then to slap on a Hogan cap and claim he is a swing guru when in fact he is a slightly above average golfer, typical single digit guy sometimes breaking 80 on easy courses, and say "send me money!, come to my clinic! look what I have discovered!" is all just a huge crock of sh*t. That's the issue........

Fair point, but I didn't make any of those arguments. I just said his swing is pretty good.

[Starched]

Right. I guess we agree. For an amateur, his swing is halfway decent purely aesthetically. Big difference between looking good and technically sound.  Whether he is a good golfer or not is unknown also. 

[powerfade66]

If he played tournaments he would quickly retreat. Playing with what feels like a different body to the one you had the day before on the range takes getting used to. We all feel like incredible strikers when we just hit balls and play casually without anything much riding on it. Putting a pencil in the pocket makes a big difference. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by powerfade66

[SwagGolf6112]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:04 PM, virtuoso said:

If you guys were teaching Christo to be more Hogan-ish, what would you tell him to do? 

 

To be a more decent person.. 

.

.

.

I keed, cause thats not gonna happen. smh

.

.

.

.

.

But seriously though, I'd have him or whoever wants more consistency to think about this..

 

1. Approaching the ball with a close clubface at P6

2. To a square clubface at P7

3. And finishing it off with an open clubface at P8

4. All of this simply put is a square to the path impact zone

5. But there's a but though.. If he is to really come anywhere near Hogan he'd have to be able to do all this while releasing all of his power accumulators and hitting the heck out of the ball and not simply do it by virtue of "holding the wrist positon and rotate" as per the drive hold method.

 

But that's not gonna happen simply coz in all the years that he's been "experimenting" and selling his snake oil he never understood why it is that Hogan swung the club back with that grip, setup and unique backswing. Because that backswing "matches" what he does to accomplished his  secret.

 

Cheers!

 

 

[virtuoso]

13 hours ago, SwagGolf6112 said:

 

To be a more decent person.. 

.

.

.

I keed, cause thats not gonna happen. smh

.

.

.

.

.

But seriously though, I'd have him or whoever wants more consistency to think about this..

 

1. Approaching the ball with a close clubface at P6

2. To a square clubface at P7

3. And finishing it off with an open clubface at P8

4. All of this simply put is a square to the path impact zone

5. But there's a but though.. If he is to really come anywhere near Hogan he'd have to be able to do all this while releasing all of his power accumulators and hitting the heck out of the ball and not simply do it by virtue of "holding the wrist positon and rotate" as per the drive hold method.

 

But that's not gonna happen simply coz in all the years that he's been "experimenting" and selling his snake oil he never understood why it is that Hogan swung the club back with that grip, setup and unique backswing. Because that backswing "matches" what he does to accomplished his  secret.

 

Cheers!

 

 

You think Hogan was a drive-holder?

[SwagGolf6112]

12 hours ago, virtuoso said:

You think Hogan was a drive-holder?

 

Huh??? That's what you got out of my reply?

 

 

As per my post 

 

"If he is to really come anywhere near Hogan he'd have to be able to do all this while releasing all of his power accumulators and hitting the heck out of the ball...       

 

 ....AND NOT simply do it by virtue of "holding the wrist positon and rotate" as per the drive hold method."

 

 

 

So to answer your question.   No, I don't think Hogan was a drive-holder.

[Soloman1]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:21 PM, Starched said:

but why charge money and hold yourself out as an amazing instructor when you aren't a PGA teaching pro

 

Being a PGA member isn’t a prerequisite to being a good teacher. There are plenty of teachers who are not dues-paying members, people like Butch Harmon, for example.

 

The Playing Ability Test for the PGA only requires someone post a score of less than +14 for 36 holes from the middle tees with pins cut in the most accessible and flattest part of the greens.

 

Then you work as an apprentice for years at less than fast food wages cleaning carts, working the register and changing grips. Not exactly the training ground some people think it is.

 

I also used to think that you had to be a great stick one time in your life to teach, but there are people who know what they’re talking about and are successful without being a great player. Studying, studying and studying the traits of great players and properly interpreting what’s going on is more important.

 

I accept what Chrsto is doing is simply business. You can buy it or not. Some buyers may benefit and others may not. Heck, people complain after taking lessons from the most expensive and famous instructors. Sometime because they don’t have the physical or athletic coordination to be a better player.

 

This guy never kicked a football in his life, yet was one of the best kicking coaches in the NFL.

 

 

 

[SwagGolf6112]

30 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

Being a PGA member isn’t a prerequisite to being a good teacher. There are plenty of teachers who are not dues-paying members, people like Butch Harmon, for example. --> And there are sh*tty teachers who are not dues-paying members, people like MSE, for example. So what's your point again?

 

The Playing Ability Test for the PGA only requires someone post a score of less than +14 for 36 holes from the middle tees with pins cut in the most accessible and flattest part of the greens. -> Which MSE doesn't even have the ability to pass that. So what's your point again?

 

Then you work as an apprentice for years at less than fast food wages cleaning carts, working the register and changing grips. Not exactly the training ground some people think it is. -> So does any other apprenticeship for many other professions. So what's your point again?

 

I also used to think that you had to be a great stick one time in your life to teach, but there are people who know what they’re talking about and are successful without being a great player. Studying, studying and studying the traits of great players and properly interpreting what’s going on is more important. -> And there are people who don't know wtf they're talking about and aren't successful and are not a great player like MSE. So what's your point again?

 

I accept what Chrsto is doing is simply business. You can buy it or not. Some buyers may benefit and others may not. Heck, people complain after taking lessons from the most expensive and famous instructors. Sometime because they don’t have the physical or athletic coordination to be a better player. -> And people also complain alot more after taking lessons from the most full of sh*t bad instructors. So what's your point again?

 

This guy never kicked a football in his life, yet was one of the best kicking coaches in the NFL. -> And yet we never heard any testimony from any of MSE students saying how he is the best swing coach on Youtube. So what's your point again?

 

 

Now that you're done playing "I'm full of wisdom and I see things differently than you idiot" role. Please go take instructions from MSE and get back to us on how he's maybe half decent as a golf instructor. 

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by SwagGolf6112

[virtuoso]

7 hours ago, SwagGolf6112 said:

 

Huh??? That's what you got out of my reply?

 

 

As per my post 

 

"If he is to really come anywhere near Hogan he'd have to be able to do all this while releasing all of his power accumulators and hitting the heck out of the ball...       

 

 ....AND NOT simply do it by virtue of "holding the wrist positon and rotate" as per the drive hold method."

 

 

 

So to answer your question.   No, I don't think Hogan was a drive-holder.

Ah, gotcha, I misread it. 

[Orchardist]

Careful,  this guy sucks too much energy out of the golf universe.