Hal Sutton Golf - Swing Changes working with Chase Cooper aka lv_2_hack

[Hstead]

I haven't posted a lot on WRX for a couple of years, but I thought I would make this post for the guys that like to work on their swings and that enjoy good instruction.

 

As a lot of people who remember me on here, I have worked with iteach Dan for years, like ten of them.  Dan has helped me immensely.  I saw Dan in Feb I think this year and made some tweaks to the backswing.  

 

At the beginning of August, my son and I attended a Monte clinic in Chicago which was a blast.  Monte made changes to the backswing lower body action, and we worked ob my biggest issue that always pops up which is right side bending too early.  I seem to always revert back to right tilting too soon and have to fix it.

 

I was going to be in Houston for a few days, so I thought I would hit Chase Cooper up while I was in town.  I have known Chase for several years thanks to WRX and I knew he was an expert in 3D.  I knew Chase had helped a couple of my buddies on WRX, @pinhigh and @Schnee, so I thought I would see if Chase could bring another set of eyes to my swing.

 

Chase teaches at Hall Suttons brand new teaching center in Houston, TX near Champions.  The facility is top notch and I will get to it next, but I felt like a teenage girl meeting Justin Bieber when I got to meet Hal.  For me, Hal reminds me of the old EF Hutton commercials, when "Hal Sutton speaks, people listen."  Hal couldn't have been nicer and it is pretty cool to listen to a guy that has beat Tiger in his prime, won a major, and been a Ryder Cup Captain talk about the golf swing and how to play the game.  Hal has made a big investment into teaching and his place is AWESOME!

 

In Chase and Hal's teaching bays, they have Trackman, face on and dtl cameras, GIANT screens, Swing Catalyst, 3D motion capture, everything you would want.  The video re=plays the previous swing immediately with the TM numbers up etc.  The software is so cool and they can bring up side by sides with a ton of tour players for comparisons.  They have other hitting bays with GCQuad, and a mini "range" that has some Mevo's.  They have an indoor green with slope that my guess runs around 9.5 on the stimp.  The place is exceptional.  They have all of the tools to make you better.

 

As for my swing, Chase was incredible to work with.  He identified my big issue just as Dan and Monte did, the right tilt.  He helped me fix it rather quickly.  He explained to me what I need to be doing, and sure enough, even as many lessons as I have had and as many great teachers that I have worked with, I still had misconceptions about what I wanted to do in the swing.  That is not a knock on any teacher I have worked with, but more a function of me watching too many youtube videos and reading too much stuff on here that doesn't apply to my swing.  

 

I thought I wanted to lay the club way down, regain a bunch of flexion in the waist and knees, and get that "leveraged" look where the hands were low and left and the clubhead stayed way outside the hands at P8.  Dan and Monte did not give me those "keys" or positions, but rather they were something I thought made swings good.  I feel like I know more about the golf swing than 98% of the golfers and many guys teaching out there.  But when you work with guys like Dan, Monte, and Chase, you learn how little you know compared to them.

 

Chase cleared up all of my misconceptions, and cleaned up my action.  Maybe he can post some before and after videos.  I can now hit it really high again and straight.  It is up to me now to not get back into the right tilt too early.

 

Bottom line, if you are near Houston or want some high quality instruction, Chase is right up there in my humble opinion with the best of them, and I have been to the best of them.

[Hstead]

Here is the before and after.  One other thing I failed to mention earlier, it is nice working with guys that can show you what to do themselves too.  Like Monte and Dan, Chase is able to do that, he can golf his own ball.

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

but he’s so tall and it always feels like he’s looking down on you.

[sethdavidsdad]

49 minutes ago, Hstead said:

Here is the before and after.  One other thing I failed to mention earlier, it is nice working with guys that can show you what to do themselves too.  Like Monte and Dan, Chase is able to do that, he can golf his own ball.

 

 

Great changes. Good explanations Chase 

[mattwood]

Thanks for posting Heath.  I have thought about going to see Chase since I don't live too far from the teaching center. 

[Zitlow]

You look similar to Mike Dunaway at the top of your back swing with the club bisecting your wrists and arms. 

[Dave D]

On 9/21/2020 at 4:35 PM, Hstead said:

Here is the before and after.  One other thing I failed to mention earlier, it is nice working with guys that can show you what to do themselves too.  Like Monte and Dan, Chase is able to do that, he can golf his own ball.

 

 

 

Some great changes Heath, swinging it lovely! what were the downswing specifics you worked on/feels to get that left shoulder working so much better? Asking for a friend...... ?

[Mono]

my dad worked for EF Hutton - way back when - i had a 'ringer' tee shirt with the scene from the commercial on it - a vivid memory - thank you for that

 

 

[Hstead]

11 hours ago, Dave D said:

 

Some great changes Heath, swinging it lovely! what were the downswing specifics you worked on/feels to get that left shoulder working so much better? Asking for a friend...... ?

So I have been told many times "get your left shoulder down and around, don't tilt too early, yada yada".  I knew what was wrong and couldn't fix it myself.  Good instructors gave me good drills, but on my own I just wasn't getting it.

 

The thing that fixed it for me, was Chase physically putting his hands on my shoulders when I would get to the top and stop.  He would hold my shoulders and have me push his hand down with my left shoulder.  Or he would hold both shoulders, keeping me in left tilt, while I dropped my arms and turned my lower body.  

 

Once I had that feel of how my left shoulder pushed his hand down, I could feel it in my swing correctly.  The other misconceptions I had were, I thought I needed to keep it down longer than reality, and I thought I needed to stay in flexion longer than I do.  In reality, the left shoulder just goes down for an instant and from there, it is push up off the ground and extend.  

 

I haven't hit it this high in years.  And longer and straighter.  Golf is the most fun it has been for a long time and it feels so much easier.  Now I feel like I can just react and swing without a bunch of thoughts etc.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Hstead

[Hstead]

Update after a few practice sessions and rounds:

Finally feel like my swing is where I want it, no more searching.  This swing is by far the easiest for me.  I don't feel anything awkward, contrived, weird, etc.  Just feel like I can setup and swing.  It has taken a long time to get here, but I feel like Chase gave me the final piece fixing the left shoulder move.

 

Hit 15 greens and shot the easiest, most stress free 71 today.  The ball is flying so much higher with more spin now.  Driver is hard to turn over, but I like to fade it anyway.  Since it is flying higher, I am carrying it longer with the fade.  Only hit one driver today that over cut and put me in the trees.  Our course is stupid tight with super small greens and you have to keep it between the trees which are usually 40 yards apart including the 25 yard wide fairways.  

 

Heading to Vegas next week and can't wait to play now.  I owe Chase a big thanks.

[chigolfer1]

On 9/23/2020 at 9:46 PM, Hstead said:

So I have been told many times "get your left shoulder down and around, don't tilt too early, yada yada".  I knew what was wrong and couldn't fix it myself.  Good instructors gave me good drills, but on my own I just wasn't getting it.

 

The thing that fixed it for me, was Chase physically putting his hands on my shoulders when I would get to the top and stop.  He would hold my shoulders and have me push his hand down with my left shoulder.  Or he would hold both shoulders, keeping me in left tilt, while I dropped my arms and turned my lower body.  

 

Once I had that feel of how my left shoulder pushed his hand down, I could feel it in my swing correctly.  The other misconceptions I had were, I thought I needed to keep it down longer than reality, and I thought I needed to stay in flexion longer than I do.  In reality, the left shoulder just goes down for an instant and from there, it is push up off the ground and extend.  

 

I haven't hit it this high in years.  And longer and straighter.  Golf is the most fun it has been for a long time and it feels so much easier.  Now I feel like I can just react and swing without a bunch of thoughts etc.

 

Interesting stuff.  I have the same problem (in a far worse overall swing) of raising that left shoulder way too much and my right side just tilting in a desperate effort to shallow a steep shaft.  I think part of the problem - even when I do drills with a very shallow shaft - is I literally don't know how the right side not tilting so much and the left shoulder staying down is supposed to feel like.  I'm fine being "uncomfortable" with things feeling weird initially because I've been doing it the wrong way so long, but the whole raising the left shoulder and just tilting to the right is so freaking ingrained, I have no idea what the correct move of keeping it down and clearing is supposed to feel like.

 

Are you familiar with that Alex Noren drill where he stays in left tilt "forever?"  Is that something you've ever done to try to get the right feel?

Edited September 30, 2020 by chigolfer1

[Hstead]

7 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

Interesting stuff.  I have the same problem (in a far worse overall swing) of raising that left shoulder way too much and my right side just tilting in a desperate effort to shallow a steep shaft.  I think part of the problem - even when I do drills with a very shallow shaft - is I literally don't know how the right side not tilting so much and the left shoulder staying down is supposed to feel like.  I'm fine being "uncomfortable" with things feeling weird initially because I've been doing it the wrong way so long, but the whole raising the left shoulder and just tilting to the right is so freaking ingrained, I have no idea what the correct move of keeping it down and clearing is supposed to feel like.

 

Are you familiar with that Alex Noren drill where he stays in left tilt "forever?"  Is that something you've ever done to try to get the right feel?

I hear you loud and clear, trust me I couldn't get the feel of it for a long time.  Monte actually had me doing the exact Noren drill to get the feel.  I tried a lot of different stuff.  The only thing that helped me feel it was when Chase held my shoulders in place.  That gave me the feel I needed.  The other thing that helped was understanding how short of a period the left shoulder goes down, it feels like a nano second.  I was always trying to tilt left for a long time.  It is just a second and then you can tilt right.  

 

The feel I have now during play is to just pull my left shoulder down and around to generate speed.  So my power source feels like my lefty shoulder pulling down and around.

[chigolfer1]

6 minutes ago, Hstead said:

 

The feel I have now during play is to just pull my left shoulder down and around to generate speed.  So my power source feels like my lefty shoulder pulling down and around.

 

This sound very helpful.  thanks.

[Schnee]

Swing looks great Heath. 
 

I struggle with too much right tilt as well. Chase has been working with me to stay in left tilt longer and it’s improved my game immensely, especially irons. 
 

For me, the harder I try to hit it, the more I want to right tilt. Like you said, it’s a subtle move but once you get it, things really click. 

[Hstead]

Season is almost over. I’ve worked hard on getting the left shoulder out of the way and getting more open, path more left, a little steeper. I’ve sent Chase quite a few swings and he’s kept me on track. Ball flies mostly left to right. 

 

[Schnee]

2 hours ago, Hstead said:

Season is almost over. I’ve worked hard on getting the left shoulder out of the way and getting more open, path more left, a little steeper. I’ve sent Chase quite a few swings and he’s kept me on track. Ball flies mostly left to right. 

 

 

I bet that guy can play a little 😉

 

got a face on? Swing is Gucci 

[MonteScheinblum]

38 minutes ago, Schnee said:

I bet that guy can play a little 😉

 

got a face on? Swing is Gucci 

His son beats him on range games.

[bilbry57]

Swing change looks great I bet your happy hitting bullet cuts.  Nice work

Edited December 3, 2020 by bilbry57

[torbill]

15 hours ago, Hstead said:

Season is almost over. I’ve worked hard on getting the left shoulder out of the way and getting more open, path more left, a little steeper. I’ve sent Chase quite a few swings and he’s kept me on track. Ball flies mostly left to right. 

 

 

 

Just saw this thread.  Great swing, rock solid.  Love the way your head flows on the downswing, suggests to me that you are really getting everything going to the target, nothing held back.

 

Johnny Miller has his “best tip ever” (I think MIller has about 8 “best tips ever”, grin), here:

 

 

It has helped me a lot, as I tend to tilt, too.  Have you seen it before?  If so, how would you say that it compares with what you were taught?  I never thought to feel “down and around” with the shoulder.  Rather “back to original position”.  Do you see this as different swing thoughts that result in the same movement?

[Hstead]

15 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

His son beats him on range games.

 

and then he wakes up.

[glk]

13 minutes ago, Hstead said:

 

and then he wakes up.

I’m feeling the burn here in chilly East Tennessee.   Well played.

[MonteScheinblum]

17 minutes ago, Hstead said:

 

and then he wakes up.

You tell him I witnessed the thrashing first hand.

[Hstead]

7 hours ago, torbill said:

 

Just saw this thread.  Great swing, rock solid.  Love the way your head flows on the downswing, suggests to me that you are really getting everything going to the target, nothing held back.

 

Johnny Miller has his “best tip ever” (I think MIller has about 8 “best tips ever”, grin), here:

 

 

It has helped me a lot, as I tend to tilt, too.  Have you seen it before?  If so, how would you say that it compares with what you were taught?  I never thought to feel “down and around” with the shoulder.  Rather “back to original position”.  Do you see this as different swing thoughts that result in the same movement?

Had never seen it before but it is good stuff.  Johnny can golf his ball.  I found it interesting he talked about how that kept the ball from going left for him.  I am trying to use the "Counter fall" that the AMG guys talk about, or re-centering, which I think is similar to getting the left shoulder closer to the target than it began at setup I think.  

 

I just have to resist the urge to tilt right too early to shallow the club.  To be honest, I thought I would have it down by now to the point that I didn't have to think about it.  But, I have had to make sure every range session that I am hitting those little come over the top pull cuts as a drill so I do not revert back to right tilting too soon.  Maybe one day I will not have to keep working on it?

[torbill]

A struggle for me, too.  I have tried different ideas, and none has completely broken the tendency, but it’s slowly getting better.

 

My problem is that I learned golf by staying behind the ball on the downswing, which must have caused me to slightly collapse my back leg at the start of the downswing and get a slight tilt backward. Then hips, shoulders tend to rock, and I can miss with a blocked fade or a snap hook.  And, like you, I get low shots.

 

I now use the Ballard method, and he does NOT advocate trying to stay behind it.  He wants exactly what I see in your swing - let it all go, including the head, to the target. Your head looks like Annika’s, you never see the club hit the ball.

 

Your comment:  “I am hitting those little come over the top pull cuts as a drill”.  I never thought of actually hitting balls this way (I’ll give it a shot) but sometimes I rehearse this as part of my pre-shot routine, when I’m having trouble.  Who is the tour pro who we used see rehearse an over the top move, then hit it?  Tiger sometimes?  Kutcher? Can’t remember. I never understood why. Now I do, at least for me. If I minimize my body motion, and stay connected, it is a natural thing to come over the top, like all golfers who won’t move their lower bodies tend to do.  But rehearsing this move encourages keeping the back shoulder high and the lead shoulder low.  And if I apply normal lower body action to this move when I actually swing I don’t ever come over the top, and my lead shoulder tends to stay low, and my chest gets out of the way, and I can really go after it with my left side (I’m a lefty) without bad effects.  Ballard wants his students to go after it with their right side (my left).  The other thing that has worked for me is the Miller best tip.  When I do it right it just pulls me to the finish and there is no way I can let my trail hip go low and hips/shoulders rock.  

 

Anyway, old habits die hard.     

[Hstead]

12 hours ago, torbill said:

 

 

Your comment:  “I am hitting those little come over the top pull cuts as a drill”.  I never thought of actually hitting balls this way (I’ll give it a shot) but sometimes I rehearse this as part of my pre-shot routine, when I’m having trouble.  Who is the tour pro who we used see rehearse an over the top move, then hit it?  Tiger sometimes?  Kutcher? Can’t remember. I never understood why. Now I do, at least for me.      

Corey Pavin and Tom Watson come to mind too.  I know Watson called it "the secret to golf" for him anyway.  You can tell in the video the audience thinks he is joking, he wasn't.

 

[BigD]

Swing looks Great Heath!  Good to see you posting again. I have the same exact issues.
 

Would lifting the left heel slightly help?  I know it doesn’t sound like it would make a difference but I saw a post on Instagram from Monte the other day about the left heel. Started practicing it and it “felt” easier to be more open and keep the right tilt at bay.

[GolfTurkey]

Has anyone tried the G box for the early right tilt issue? This is 100% my problem too and I feel like the trail elbow would hit the rear box with any right tilt in transition. I have one but haven’t had a chance to use it because I’m only 3 weeks post hip surgery.

[Hstead]

Made another trip down to Houston to see Chase and Hal.  I have made a lot of trips over the past 15 years to some great instructors, but this trip I learned more about golf, mechanics, ball flight, and playing than any trip I have ever made.  We spent a lot of time together over a couple of days and started by just playing 18 holes at Houston Oaks so Chase could see what I do on the course.  

 

We worked on the swing all afternoon after playing 18 and then again the next morning.  Some of the things I learned were again totally the opposite of some of the misconceptions I had had about what I wanted to do.  No ones fault but my own.  You read so much here and watch so many videos on instagram and youtube and it is easy to get some things not exactly correct.  Details matter. 

 

A good example was how Chase changed the way I hit fades and draws.  Then he asked Hal to come in and explain how he used to hit fades and draws and confirmed exactly what Chase had just taught me vs my misconception of how I wanted to fade it and draw it.  He basically said there are two ways, either preset the flight into the setup with ball position and stance, or setup zeroed out or square and then move the path direction with the swing.  I was doing both, setting up to hit a fade, and swinging left.  That simple understanding of exactly what I want to do with my swing to move it made a huge difference in my miss.  I also learned to quit trying to fade my short irons, and he could show me exactly why.  He also taught me a ton about the d-plane, and why I need to do what I need to do for my swing.  There are different ways to move the low point and now I understand exactly what I need to do move my low point more forward.  

 

The main things we worked on were again, left tilt, which I had fixed decently, and then different ways I can move my path left or right.  He had me hit three balls, one with a -5 path, then a +5 path, and then 0 path.  On every swing we would keep the angle of attack around -4 to -9 depending on the iron and try to keep the launch around 20-ish.  

 

He gave me some great speed drills.  Changed some stuff in my short game, mostly decreasing tension and slowing the swing down.  It was an awesome trip.  Houston Oaks was really fun.  Chase stumbled around with a measly 72 lol.  It should have been a 68 from the tips.  I had to buy lunch.  I had a three or four bad holes and shot 84.  But I didn't expect much since I have only played three times since having a surgery the first week of December and we have had six inches of snow on the ground for almost a month.

 

 

[Hstead]

I made another trip to Houston a couple of weeks ago and thought I would update this thread.  I get messages from folks occasionally with questions about changes I have made over the years, and thoughts on teachers etc.  So I thought I would add some recent changes I have made and then some of my son.  My son started playing last year.  He plays college football so he really only gets to play and practice for three months or so out of the year.  This last trip was really more to help him than me.

 

Chase was able to make some changes for Beau that have helped him tremendously, especially putting and chipping.  He has gone from shooting low 90's to low 80's almost over night.  His good shots look like good shots now.  Here is his before and after.

 

 

Here is my lesson  - I fixed my early right tilt, but had gotten too far across and my miss was a pull and a wipe fade.  He helped get my hands more in on the downswing and now I am drawing everything again but can fade it when I want.

 

Chase has not only helped me improve my swing, but he has taught me a lot of misconceptions about the swing I had.  The misconceptions come from me watching too many youtube videos for certain.  I am no longer trying to lay the shaft down super flat/shallow.  That is not good for me at all.  More importantly, Chase has taught me how to play.  We go out on the course and he doesn't say a word about technique for the most part, with the exception of showing me some short game shots.  He just watched to see what I do on the course.  Then when we finish, he starts explaining to me why I am doing what I am doing and what I need to be doing.  That has been invaluable.  Chase knows how to play the game at a high level.  He has learned a lot from Hal as have I.  I love picking Hal's brain about playing golf.  Hal couldn't be more humble and sharing.  Hal loves to teach people how to play.  He has shared so much that he has learned from guys like Nelson, Floyd, Trevino, et al.  It has been eye opening for me.  

 

Chase's students are really starting to succeed too.  He has one lady that made the cut at the Women's US Open.  Has kids that have won multiple AJGA events.  Texas high school state champ.  Multiple D1 All Americans.  And two players in the top 50 in the WAGR.

 

I have a buddy that sponsors about a dozen pro's.  A couple are Korn Ferry guys, a Champions Tour guy, and several mini Tour guys.  Chase and Hal have started working with the Champions Tour guy and he is seeing instant improvements.  

[Precis1on]

Very cool to see where how far you guys have come since Chicago 2020! 

 

Have to agree on the whole laying it flat comment. Feels like it's overdone at this point, and it doesn't agree with how everyone works it. So long as the club moves the right direction imo. I had the same issue with too much right tilt into too far across and two way miss (pull hook and wipe fade). Monte got my left hip working better for my fix so it's cool to see that getting your hand path moving more in got your body moving correctly.