Golf ball for the 70 mph swing: Is the Pro V1/Pro V1x wasted on juniors

[MB19]

As we were teeing off at our first USKG tournament, the dads announced which balls everyone was playing.

 

Me: Srixon Q-Star Tour

Dad1: US Kids

Dad2: Titleist Pro V1

 

Me: (Oh s*%&!, what have we gotten ourselves into?)

 

I knew Dad2's daughter had game, but were little girls supposed to play Pro V1?  No, right?

 

This was my baptism into the world of junior tournament golf, and Dad2 was my minister that night.  He recommended a different shaft for my daughter, encouraged her (and I), and told me about his experience at Worlds the year before.  But I didn't ask him about why they played Pro V1... because I didn't have to.  She obviously practiced with it and knew its capabilities--it was part of her game at this point.

 

En route to watching Dad2's daughter shoot par, she threw darts at the pin with her wedges and low irons that took a hop and stuck and crushed drives 20+ yards past the two other girls from every tee.  It was a clinic that only cost us the tournament entry fee.  Not to say she couldn't have beaten us all with a range ball, though--I'll just always wonder how much of a difference that $4 ball made.  Dad1's golfer was very good, and was the reigning USKG State champ who had just moved up in age group.  Would her very well-executed wedge from the rough have held the downhill green better if she was using something else other than the USKG ball?  I'll never know the answer to that, but I'll always wonder if she trickles it close to the hole that shot rather than scoots it past by 25'.

[heavy_hitter]

At that age there is no reason for her to use a Pro V1.

[wildcatden]

The Junior Golf Arms Race (JGAR) knows no limits. That being said, my 9YO plays mainly ProV1/V1X's, TP5/5X's and KSIG's because that is what we find in the weeds at our course when we go golf ball hunting.  Probably have 3-4 dozen ProV1/V1X's in a box at home.

 

As far as playing them, he seems to do fine with any of them. The real question is.....what kind of tees are they using? 🤣

Edited October 9, 2020 by wildcatden

[2bGood]

Sort of non-issue.

 

My kids played with Pro V1 and other high end balls all the time. They had no idea they were 'good' balls, just was was in my used ball bucket or what I had around the house from winning them at event. I got give the balls away, so why not to my kids?

 

Even if buying new balls, cost should be no big issue. My daughters as juniors could go 10 rounds on one ball as they never hit it far enough to get in trouble or fast enough to damage the ball.  So not really a big deal if you paid $6 for a ball or $3 for a ball as the difference is around $.30 a round. 

 

Now is the Pro V1 the best ball for a Junior? Not sure it is, but I don't read too much into them using one.

Edited October 9, 2020 by 2bGood

[MB19]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Even if buying new balls, cost should be no big issue. My daughters as juniors could go 10 rounds on one ball as they never hit it far enough to get in trouble or fast enough to damage the ball.  So not really a big deal if you paid $6 for a ball or $3 for a ball as the difference is around $.30 a round. 

This is a good point.  My kids aren't driving over 150 yet, and we don't go through many balls in a typical month.  If the ProV1 was like 30% better than the QST or Project A dozens I got for under $2 per, maybe it's worth the premium.  I'm just not sure that it's worth it with their swing speeds still being so relatively slow.  I do wonder what the tipping point is, though.  Is the dude at the pro shop trying to sell me SuperSofts instead of the QST or Project A right in that the higher-caliber ball is wasted on them, or is he generalizing to the medium of kids who are out there shooting mid-50s?

 

While my kids are capable of going several rounds without putting one in the drink (South FL courses can be water-heavy), I never count on a clean round.

[mrshinsa]

How old is your daughter? 

The cost of tournament was probably around ~$50?  Time spent 3~4 hours? 

Add to it lesson fees, range fees, practice round fees, memberships, equipment cost, gas money, and the total cost really adds up.  

Golf ball price is an afterthought once you start playing competitive golf.

 

As for performance, playing a premium ball does help with approach shots.  Doesn't necessarily have to be ProV1.   

I've seen balls roll out when I thought it shouldn't and wondered why parents spend so much time and money yet skimp on golf balls.  

 

Yes, Dad1 needs to switch out.  

Srixon Z-star usually will go on sale for $20/dozen.  

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by mrshinsa

[Pepperturbo]

My uncle is 85, he plays ProV and likes it.  My twenty-something son, who seldom plays, plays ProV too.  I see no reason youngsters shouldn't play ProV, presuming they are serious about the game and parents can afford the ball.  All depends on age and level of commitment to the game and of course, parents wallet.

[2bGood]

Lets also assume everyone is using "Pro V1" generically in this thread to mean high end ball. 

[tiger1873]

I found you really want to avoid the cheapest balls even for kids there usually hard as rock and roll for miles when they hit the green.

 

The reason you buy a prov1 is because it helps you with chipping and putting.  I do think prov1's are some of the best most consistent balls out there and because of that might help save some strokes. So for older kids you may want to invest in a premium ball for tournaments. Like it has been said doesn't have to be a prov1 but should be a similar high quality ball.

 

The reality is most kids lose far more stokes from other things then choosing a cheaper ball so that extra performance your paying for doesn't matter. I personally like the wilson  and calaway supersoft balls for around $20 a dozen for my 9 year old.  Just avoid those cheap topflight balls at dicks or pinnacles that you find and you will be fine.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by tiger1873

[2bGood]

12 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

How old is your daughter? 

The cost of tournament was probably around ~$50?  Time spent 3~4 hours? 

Add to it lesson fees, range fees, practice round fees, memberships, equipment cost, gas money, and the total cost really adds up.  

Golf ball price is an afterthought once you start playing competitive golf.

 

As for performance, playing a premium ball does help with approach shots.  Doesn't necessarily have to be ProV1.   

I've seen balls roll out when I thought it shouldn't and wondered why parents spend so much time and money yet skimp on golf balls.  

 

Yes, Dad1 needs to switch out.  

Srixon Z-star usually will go on sale for $20/dozen.  

 

 

For the most part I have never got the big desire to play a low end ball (that you don't like), sure high end balls cost a bit more, but it is a very minor cost compared to other golf fees. 

[mrshinsa]

Also you don't have to pay $4 for premium golf balls. 

Lots of  choices out there

$2 premium golf balls

$1 premium golf balls

Edited October 9, 2020 by mrshinsa

[MB19]

7 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

How old is your daughter? 

The cost of tournament was probably around ~$50?  Time spent 3~4 hours? 

Add to it lesson fees, range fees, practice round fees, memberships, equipment cost, gas money, and the total cost really adds up.  

Golf ball price is an afterthought once you start playing competitive golf.

 

As for performance, playing a premium ball does help with approach shots.  Doesn't necessarily have to be ProV1.   

I've seen balls roll out when I thought it shouldn't and wondered why parents spend so much time and money yet skimp on golf balls.  

 

Yes, Dad1 needs to switch out.  

Srixon Z-star usually will go on sale for $20/dozen.  

 

My daughter turned nine last month.  Our USKG tournaments are $39.

 

I didn't realize I sounded like I was complaining about golf ball prices.  If I could pay $20 per ball and my kids were sure to break par with it, they would be gaming them for tournaments.  And yes, the price of everything does add up.  But again, what's the tipping point?  65, 70, 75, 80 MPH?

 

It is similar to photography, in that sweating over how much to pay for an SD card seems silly when you you pay thousands for your body, lenses, tripod and lighting gear.  But would do I settle for paying $35 for a quality SD card instead of paying $300 for one that is faster and semi-indestructible?  You bet.  Does a pro shooting portraits using a 200mm f2 or 105mm f1.4 really get a better result than an enthusiast using kit lenses?  Of course.  Is there a happy medium where you can approach professional quality without spending $2-$4K for a lens and $2-$5K for a body? Yes.  Can my kid shoot par someday without spending $10K in lessons from Don Law or $20K from Ledbetter?  Maybe.

 

I got lucky with a Srixon sale this winter, snagging 3doz QST for $42 after taxes.  I think Z-Star was $10 more, so when that seemingly-annual sale comes around again I'll consider them.

[MB19]

15 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

Also you don't have to pay $4 for premium golf balls. 

Lots of  choices out there

$2 premium golf balls

$1 premium golf balls

Great price on Z-Stars! (I just ordered a dozen to try--thanks!)

 

The Kirklands are coming up $24doz for me.

 

We tried the Callaway Hex Tour Soft when Costco had them for $22/2Doz and the seemed to spin better than Supersofts.  I think we still have a sleeve or two left.

Edited October 9, 2020 by MB19

[mrshinsa]

8 minutes ago, MB19 said:

Great price on Z-Stars! (I just ordered a dozen to try--thanks!)

 

The Kirklands are coming up $24doz for me.

 

We tried the Callaway Hex Tour Soft when Costco had them for $22/2Doz and the seemed to spin better than Supersofts.  I think we still have a sleeve or two left.

Kirklands are $24/2dozen, so $1 each.  If you can find them at your local store, you can save on shipping as well.  

[2bGood]

27 minutes ago, MB19 said:

My daughter turned nine last month.  Our USKG tournaments are $39.

 

I didn't realize I sounded like I was complaining about golf ball prices.  If I could pay $20 per ball and my kids were sure to break par with it, they would be gaming them for tournaments.  And yes, the price of everything does add up.  But again, what's the tipping point?  65, 70, 75, 80 MPH?

 

It is similar to photography, in that sweating over how much to pay for an SD card seems silly when you you pay thousands for your body, lenses, tripod and lighting gear.  But would do I settle for paying $35 for a quality SD card instead of paying $300 for one that is faster and semi-indestructible?  You bet.  Does a pro shooting portraits using a 200mm f2 or 105mm f1.4 really get a better result than an enthusiast using kit lenses?  Of course.  Is there a happy medium where you can approach professional quality without spending $2-$4K for a lens and $2-$5K for a body? Yes.  Can my kid shoot par someday without spending $10K in lessons from Don Law or $20K from Ledbetter?  Maybe.

 

I got lucky with a Srixon sale this winter, snagging 3doz QST for $42 after taxes.  I think Z-Star was $10 more, so when that seemingly-annual sale comes around again I'll consider them.

I think I started the thread in that direction - not my intent to imply that was you concern about ProV1 was cost - just wanted to point out that junior playing with one was not necessary strategic or intentional.

Edited October 9, 2020 by 2bGood

[mrshinsa]

28 minutes ago, MB19 said:

My daughter turned nine last month.  Our USKG tournaments are $39.

 

I didn't realize I sounded like I was complaining about golf ball prices.  If I could pay $20 per ball and my kids were sure to break par with it, they would be gaming them for tournaments.  And yes, the price of everything does add up.  But again, what's the tipping point?  65, 70, 75, 80 MPH?

 

It is similar to photography, in that sweating over how much to pay for an SD card seems silly when you you pay thousands for your body, lenses, tripod and lighting gear.  But would do I settle for paying $35 for a quality SD card instead of paying $300 for one that is faster and semi-indestructible?  You bet.  Does a pro shooting portraits using a 200mm f2 or 105mm f1.4 really get a better result than an enthusiast using kit lenses?  Of course.  Is there a happy medium where you can approach professional quality without spending $2-$4K for a lens and $2-$5K for a body? Yes.  Can my kid shoot par someday without spending $10K in lessons from Don Law or $20K from Ledbetter?  Maybe.

 

I got lucky with a Srixon sale this winter, snagging 3doz QST for $42 after taxes.  I think Z-Star was $10 more, so when that seemingly-annual sale comes around again I'll consider them.

The tipping point is when you start paying money to play tournament golf.  Local monthly club tournaments do not count.  

We all know the best camera is the one you have with you, and after two Kids we all stop lugging around the 5 pound full frame + L lens setup.  
These days I only carry around  SL1 with a pancake 24mm f/2.8 STM, which is small enough to slide into my jean pockets if needed, yet still takes better pictures than any iPhones out there.  

The tipping point to spend on Photography is when you start making income, which we tried at one point in life.  At that point, price of body and lenses becomes an afterthought, as the cost of lighting and studio greatly exceeds that.  

 

[MB19]

7 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

I think I started the thread in that direction - not my intent to imply that was you concern about ProV1 was cost - just wanted to point out that junior playing with one was not necessary strategic or intentional.

Understood, and thanks.

 

In this case  Dad2 I think is a financial planner who puts his daughter through the same warm-up routine before each tournament.  I would be shocked if the ProV1 was pot-luck that day.

[MB19]

4 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

The tipping point is when you start paying money to play tournament golf.  Local monthly club tournaments do not count.  

We all know the best camera is the one you have with you, and after two Kids we all stop lugging around the 5 pound full frame + L lens setup.  
These days I only carry around  SL1 with a pancake 24mm f/2.8 STM, which is small enough to slide into my jean pockets if needed, yet still takes better pictures than any iPhones out there.  

The tipping point to spend on Photography is when you start making income, which we tried at one point in life.  At that point, price of body and lenses becomes an afterthought, as the cost of lighting and studio greatly exceeds that.  

 

I do wish our local stuff was more competitive, but yeah, there's no comparison with it and playing against the SFL kids an hour south.

 

I'm a Sony guy now, but I respect the SL1 body/pancake form factor coming from a 60D/6D combo years back.  I shoot mostly sports and events, some wildlife--though not nearly as much as I used to.  Studio work and outdoor lighting stuff I leave to the real pros.

 

The iPhoneX and above is so capable it has displaced my a6000, and even my rx-100ii, for the most part.  My a99ii stays in the bag unless I really need MP, clinical sharpness, pro-level AF and high ISO.

[leezer99]

My son’s friend isn’t great but uses ProV’s because his dad gets them for free. I think it really helps him around the greens with chipping. Could also be the wedges Bob made for him. Who knows?

[MB19]

15 hours ago, leezer99 said:

My son’s friend isn’t great but uses ProV’s because his dad gets them for free. I think it really helps him around the greens with chipping. Could also be the wedges Bob made for him. Who knows?

My son is about to move up from Velocity wedges to Bob's wedges, himself.  I just hope the jump from the series 2 to SM7 (ported) isn't too drastic for him weight-wise.

[jj9000]

Whatever the ball is, get it and stick with it.  IMO, that's much more important than which ball is chosen.  The kid will learn to adjust to whatever ball they play.

 

But, if you put a Wilson Duo Soft in play one week, and a V1x the next week, you're doing the kid a disservice.

[MB19]

8 hours ago, jj9000 said:

Whatever the ball is, get it and stick with it.  IMO, that's much more important than which ball is chosen.  The kid will learn to adjust to whatever ball they play.

 

But, if you put a Wilson Duo Soft in play one week, and a V1x the next week, you're doing the kid a disservice.

 

I agree, to a point.  My kids have been playing QST/Project A interchangeably for most of this year and the two balls are just so similar in every way. In this case, I just don't see how it matters but I could be wrong.  We added in the Callaway Hex Tour Soft for practice, but we never played them in a round.  It seemed to play more similar to the QST/Project A than the Duo Soft, though.

 

The balls I used before them were Duo Softs, and I stopped mixing them in once we ran out.  They were definitely a very different ball compared to the higher-compression, higher-spinning balls we started using.

[ncalgolf]

On 10/10/2020 at 5:49 AM, MB19 said:

My son is about to move up from Velocity wedges to Bob's wedges, himself.  I just hope the jump from the series 2 to SM7 (ported) isn't too drastic for him weight-wise.

I've tried so many different balls for my kid and find any premium (premiumish) ball to be about the same for her.  Now how much of a difference do Velocity / USKids wedges make compared to adult wedges (and will porting them get the weight down closer to the junior standards?

[Golfingdawg19]

Took my daughter to Sea Island a year ago for a driver fitting. Her swing speed was just over 70mph. She hit every kind of driver and there was no real difference at her clubhead speed. When we started the fitting the fitter had her using a NXT ball. For the last few balls he had her use the Pro V1 for fun. Her ball speed jumped 3mph with the ProV1. So even though her clubhead speed was 70mph the ProV1 was the best ball for her. He said to stick with a ProV1 or even a TP5. 

[MB19]

4 hours ago, Golfingdawg19 said:

Took my daughter to Sea Island a year ago for a driver fitting. Her swing speed was just over 70mph. She hit every kind of driver and there was no real difference at her clubhead speed. When we started the fitting the fitter had her using a NXT ball. For the last few balls he had her use the Pro V1 for fun. Her ball speed jumped 3mph with the ProV1. So even though her clubhead speed was 70mph the ProV1 was the best ball for her. He said to stick with a ProV1 or even a TP5. 

Very interesting, and thanks for adding this.  

 

Our maiden box of Z-Stars came via Amazon yesterday, so I took the kids out for a "test" round today.  My son and daughter hit similar distances, with my daughter being roughly a club longer on any give shot.  My son hit the Callaway Hex Tour Soft and my daughter hit the Z-star.  The course we played was in rough shape (save the greens, which were nice even if a little slow!), with the fairways being super sloppy--impossible to judge anything but carry. 

 

On one particular drive, the only one she truly flushed today, it probably equalled her farthest drive ever in spite of it losing rollout going uphill towards the green complex.  It may be fair to call that an outlier, but it may also be fair to say that maybe the ball did make a difference there.  Where I really noticed it was the way the Z-Star held the greens in comparison to the HTS.  Not that the HTS is awesome in this regard, as it is probably a notch below the Q-Star Tour/Project A.  My daughter stuck lob, sand and gap wedge shots close to the pin--and they stayed there.  It was pretty impressive.  Mind you, my daughter has better wedges but I also have watched her play these lower-spinning balls up until today.

 

We're going out again Friday, weather permitting, so we'll do the same trial again but I'll probably have my son play QST this time.

[MB19]

5 hours ago, ncalgolf said:

I've tried so many different balls for my kid and find any premium (premiumish) ball to be about the same for her.  Now how much of a difference do Velocity / USKids wedges make compared to adult wedges (and will porting them get the weight down closer to the junior standards?

The Velocity irons and wedges have been a nice option for my kids during their first 16 months golfing, and I couldn't be happier with them as beginning wedges/irons.  My son inherited my daughter's set with series 2 heads after hit hit a growth spurt this spring, leaving her in need of a set.  I picked up a 6/8/PW/bag USKG UL 60" combo for $29 at Play-It-Again to try it out for her, and she hit them ok... not quite as well as she hit the Flynns.  We ended up going a different route... but that's another thread.

 

For the sake of germanity, I just weighed a bunch of wedges because your question made me curious.

 

Club                                                                 Weight

USKG UL 60" PW                                              370g

Flynn Velocity 57" PW                                      348g

Titleist 712 CB (Tensei Red-L) PW                   360g

Flynn Advantage (steel) 51*                             372g

Ping Glide Forged (TFC80 Lite) 50*                382g

Titleist SM7 (Tensei Red-L) 52*                       408g

Ping Prodi G (junior flex) 56*                            370g     

Flynn Velocity 56*                                             352g

Ping Glide forged (steel) 56*                            470g

Titleist SM7 (Tensei Red-L) 56*                       408g 

Flynn Velocity 57" 60*                                       370g

Titleist SM7  60" (Tensei Red-L, ported) 60*  390g

 

There were some stunning revelations here, at least for me. 

 

--That there is just 10g difference between my son's 30" series 2 head Flynn Advantage 51* gap wedge and the PIng Glide Forged 50* with the TFC 80 Lite shaft is crazy.  I knew those Forged Glides were light, but wow.  The difference the Tensei Red and Steel shaft makes is huge as well.

 

--The 10g difference between the USKG UL and 712 CB was pretty unexpected.

 

--That there is only 18g difference between the ported 60* SM7 and the 56* non-ported SM7 was surprising... I guess the 2" I'll trim off of it may shave another 2g off it, so let's say that 20g is the approx difference in porting?

 

--The 26g difference between the Glide Forged and the SM7 Gap wedges with lightweight graphite ladies/senior shafts is interesting.  The SM7 is 1.5" longer, but still...

 

For anyone wanting to go down this rabbit hole, here you go.

[leezer99]

51 minutes ago, MB19 said:

The Velocity irons and wedges have been a nice option for my kids during their first 16 months golfing, and I couldn't be happier with them as beginning wedges/irons.  My son inherited my daughter's set with series 2 heads after hit hit a growth spurt this spring, leaving her in need of a set.  I picked up a 6/8/PW/bag USKG UL 60" combo for $29 at Play-It-Again to try it out for her, and she hit them ok... not quite as well as she hit the Flynns.  We ended up going a different route... but that's another thread.

 

For the sake of germanity, I just weighed a bunch of wedges because your question made me curious.

 

Club                                                                 Weight

USKG UL 60" PW                                              370g

Flynn Velocity 57" PW                                      348g

Titleist 712 CB (Tensei Red-L) PW                   360g

Flynn Advantage (steel) 51*                             372g

Ping Glide Forged (TFC80 Lite) 50*                382g

Titleist SM7 (Tensei Red-L) 52*                       408g

Ping Prodi G (junior flex) 56*                            370g     

Flynn Velocity 56*                                             352g

Ping Glide forged (steel) 56*                            470g

Titleist SM7 (Tensei Red-L) 56*                       408g 

Flynn Velocity 57" 60*                                       370g

Titleist SM7  60" (Tensei Red-L, ported) 60*  390g

 

There were some stunning revelations here, at least for me. 

 

--That there is just 10g difference between my son's 30" series 2 head Flynn Advantage 51* gap wedge and the PIng Glide Forged 50* with the TFC 80 Lite shaft is crazy.  I knew those Forged Glides were light, but wow.  The difference the Tensei Red and Steel shaft makes is huge as well.

 

--The 10g difference between the USKG UL and 712 CB was pretty unexpected.

 

--That there is only 18g difference between the ported 60* SM7 and the 56* non-ported SM7 was surprising... I guess the 2" I'll trim off of it may shave another 2g off it, so let's say that 20g is the approx difference in porting?

 

--The 26g difference between the Glide Forged and the SM7 Gap wedges with lightweight graphite ladies/senior shafts is interesting.  The SM7 is 1.5" longer, but still...

 

For anyone wanting to go down this rabbit hole, here you go.

I’m going to need swing weight on each as well. 

[ncalgolf]

22 hours ago, leezer99 said:

I’m going to need swing weight on each as well. 

hahahaha - that was my next question - I actually just donated my bad purchase buys to the First Tee program near us - I just couldn't stand looking at them in the garage anymore and figure let some bigger kids get some use out of them because when they do fit I'll be onto something new.  I decided Im just sticking with US Kids Wedges and the ball we use now is good enough.  I'll revisit it two years when she is 10

[tiger1873]

On 10/9/2020 at 3:29 PM, MB19 said:

My daughter turned nine last month.  Our USKG tournaments are $39.

 

I didn't realize I sounded like I was complaining about golf ball prices.  If I could pay $20 per ball and my kids were sure to break par with it, they would be gaming them for tournaments.  And yes, the price of everything does add up.  But again, what's the tipping point?  65, 70, 75, 80 MPH?

 

It is similar to photography, in that sweating over how much to pay for an SD card seems silly when you you pay thousands for your body, lenses, tripod and lighting gear.  But would do I settle for paying $35 for a quality SD card instead of paying $300 for one that is faster and semi-indestructible?  You bet.  Does a pro shooting portraits using a 200mm f2 or 105mm f1.4 really get a better result than an enthusiast using kit lenses?  Of course.  Is there a happy medium where you can approach professional quality without spending $2-$4K for a lens and $2-$5K for a body? Yes.  Can my kid shoot par someday without spending $10K in lessons from Don Law or $20K from Ledbetter?  Maybe.

 

I got lucky with a Srixon sale this winter, snagging 3doz QST for $42 after taxes.  I think Z-Star was $10 more, so when that seemingly-annual sale comes around again I'll consider them.

 

 

When it comes to balls the tipping point is when not using a premium ball is costing you more strokes.

 

It's great to buy wilson duo balls but eventually your kid gets good enough that you notice there actually controlling the ball but it zips past the hole.    You might also notice those chips  end up 10 feet from the hole instead of 3 feet. Then when it comes to fairway there coming in with woods instead of a iron because the ball isn't going as far.

 

So it's a gradual thing that eventually you notice. The thing is most younger kids have a lot things to work on if there flying over the greens chipping and 3 putting a lot holes getting a premium ball isn't going to help.

[MB19]

18 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

When it comes to balls the tipping point is when not using a premium ball is costing you more strokes.

 

It's great to buy wilson duo balls but eventually your kid gets good enough that you notice there actually controlling the ball but it zips past the hole.    You might also notice those chips  end up 10 feet from the hole instead of 3 feet. Then when it comes to fairway there coming in with woods instead of a iron because the ball isn't going as far.

 

So it's a gradual thing that eventually you notice. The thing is most younger kids have a lot things to work on if there flying over the greens chipping and 3 putting a lot holes getting a premium ball isn't going to help.

This is solid.  My son is likely going to stick with the QST, and my daughter will play with the Z-Star a couple more times before I make a decision.  The way it stuck on greens was what we were looking for last time out, and we'll try it again to see if the results are similar.