Swing Weight - Suggestions

[Noodler]

21 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

 

 

Thanks! I appreciate it! 

 

Sorry I have 1 more questions that I might have missed the answer.

 

your 3rd note is my question

 

"Stock Swing weights are best for everyone"

 

Wedges seem to be a little heavier (D4-D6) I have seen, I think I assume is most people dont swing full so more swing weight is for feel of the head.

 

Most Irons are D2-D3( This seems to work well for me)

 

 

Yet drivers seem to be all over the creation,

 

Cobra has a selection D1-D4 (I assume you pick,  But D1 to D4 can make a huge difference?)

Ping Forgiving heads are D3, but They LST is D4

Taylormade Sim Max is D3 but their Regular sim is D5

 

Why do most forgiving Driver heads seem to have a lighter swing weight like D1-D3,  but the tour models have a heavier swing weight like D4-D6?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're still referring to swingweight values as if they're absolute measurements.  They are measurements of balance that do not account for the overall weight of the club being measured.  You will readily feel changes to the overall weight that the swingweight scale does not detect.

[Noodler]

13 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

Interesting!  I am so sorry if I keep asking question but I am very interested in just learning more.

 

 

side question.  MOI based on club design has X amount.  Generically how much MOI is affected based on SW?  As an example,  a Blade is 0%,  a GI 50% and an SGI is 100% (generically)  If you messed with SW to affect MOI,  would you say that its 5% of the effect of MOI? 10%, 50%? etc? I hope you understand what I mean.  What I am trying to imply is the effects of SW worth the search for more MOI?

 

 

 

As for driver gotcha.  It just seems that this M3 (D5) head would go right all the time for me.  I pulled one weight out (C9)  and all of a sudden it was a hook machine.  I added in the 5 grams of putty back to get it to D2 and now I am hitting it very well as I mentioned.

 

I have been reading about total head weight,  hammer effect and now trying to understand the effects of MOI.  Since pulled th 11gram weight but put back 5 its a net loss of grams total weight.  The on going conversation is, did I reduce the "club" efficiency, more than gaining my swing efficiency.  Meaning would the trade of be better to fix my swing to work with the stock D5 setup or was the move to D2 worth matching my swing better.  (rhetorical at this point)

 

 

Thanks as always for this conversation!! 

 

Don't confuse the club's total MOI versus the head's self-MOI.  Swingweight lives in the world of the club's total MOI.  It doesn't not have any effect on the club head's ability to resist twisting depending on ball impact location.

 

Note that where you add the weight on the club head to change the swingweight can have an impact on the head's MOI (resistance to twisting).  This is especially true for the driver head.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Noodler

[Exactice808]

Just now, Noodler said:

 

You're still referring to swingweight values as if they're absolute measurements.  They are measurements of balance that do not account for the overall weight of the club being measured.  You will readily feel changes to the overall weight that the swingweight scale does not detect.

Noted!  Interesting thought.   If I might try to express my "feeling"?

 

As an example I had have messed around with shafts for a long time (weight and flex) well maybe no where near some of you LOL,  but my point is messing around with overall weight oddly I could not tell too much of a difference.

 

example;

 

Diamana D+ 70

Kuro Kage 60 X

7M3 Black Tie S+

VLCT 60 Regular

Tensei Blue Regular

Tensei White Stiff

 

I have yet to "feel" the over all weight difference even though 10grams in total weight shifts between shafts.  (I do agree and understand though that the overall weight affects my swing though)

 

What I do Feel is the head difference. Or I think I feel the Swing weight difference.  

 

The biggest pronounce different in head weight that I could feel "Consciously" was when I pulled the 11 gram slider weight out of the M3.  Going from D5 to C9.  

 

I recall the Nike Covert CT 1.0 with the Kuro X was also heavy head wise, (sledge hammer) and I lost that think MILES right. 

 

 

Ok back to feel though,  I admit the M3 driver right now at the artificial measurement of D2 head wise, feels lighter (which it is)  Yes I cant feel it as well as I did in its stock form, BUT the club head being delivered square at impact.  Which is foreign to me but the results are undeniable. So I am starting to trust it.

 

While I agree that I am applying it as absolute.  Which you all have now muddied the waters a lot HAHA (kidding)  But now I am trying to find some type of base.  Or some type of consistency to measure ALL the shafts and clubs options I have.

 

It seems now that swapping the Diamana with the Tensei white is not just that simple.  I mean thats what I was doing before.  Even if I swapped them and had different weight setups to get them both to D2. It seems it WONT mean it performs the same (Contact wise the flight will be different sure) But the ORIGINAL Seemingly flawed thought was.

 

 

Same head same length shafts I wanted to "Tune" ball flight.

 

Low, low shaft like a Tensei white to say a Mid, Mid shaft life the Kuro Kage.  If both shafts are Stiff flex, and 65grams total weight same length.

 

Swapping them back and forth, while matching the swing weight WONT necessarily work. because the potential balance point of the shafts differ and the adding or subtracting artificial weight to get to a set swing weight will affect overall efficiency?

 

 

 

 

[Exactice808]

7 minutes ago, Noodler said:

 

Don't confuse the club's total MOI versus the head's self-MOI.  Swingweight lives in the world of the club's total MOI.  It doesn't not have any effect on the club head's ability to resist twisting depending on ball impact location.

 

Note that where you add the weight on the club head to change the swingweight can have an impact on the head's MOI (resistance to twisting).  This is especially true for the driver head.

I did have this noted in my mind! Thank you for the edification.  To clarify for me specifically.  the M3 head has 2 sliding weights in the stock configuration there is one weight forward and one weight back.  I aired on the side of caution and pulled the forward weight and left the back weight to "keep the higher MOI" (oh I hope I didnt mess that up LOL).   Realizing the swing weight was too light I added the tungsten putty to the BACK weight as well,  so basically its like a 16gram weight in the back configuration to increase or maintain MOI?

 

 

Rather than putting the putty up front where the original weight was?  Did I assume this correct?

 

[Sean2]

2 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

Hey Sean!  Hope you are doing well!

 

Hey so questions since this topic intrigues me.  I am assuming you had your time and years with "stock" length D2 clubs.  Whe you went to +2" and they are at E2 swing weight.  What was the effects of it?  Or is E2 a good match for you? Did you have to learn to hit it?

 

Is the +2" with the E2 swing weight and the sacrifice to play standard length at D2 better?

 

 

Also since Stuart mentioned this and learning that Manufactures make different head weights.  Could you not have ordered a set of lighter head weights to get the +2" back down to D2?

 

What was the sacrifice you were willing to take?

 

 

 

Hey Exac!

 

I have been playing with that SW for so long now, I've gotten used to it. I can't play standard length...I feel like I am squatting and it's very uncomfortable, even with +1-inch I feel like I am squatting down too much. And, the squatting is a lot more uncomfortable than a heavier SW. 

 

I wasn't aware that lighter heads were made! My last set of steel shafted irons were Ping's, and the SW was E6. 

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

I did have this noted in my mind! Thank you for the edification.  To clarify for me specifically.  the M3 head has 2 sliding weights in the stock configuration there is one weight forward and one weight back.  I aired on the side of caution and pulled the forward weight and left the back weight to "keep the higher MOI" (oh I hope I didnt mess that up LOL).   Realizing the swing weight was too light I added the tungsten putty to the BACK weight as well,  so basically its like a 16gram weight in the back configuration to increase or maintain MOI?

 

 

Rather than putting the putty up front where the original weight was?  Did I assume this correct?

 

 

Yes.

[Exactice808]

20 hours ago, Sean2 said:

Hey Exac!

 

I have been playing with that SW for so long now, I've gotten used to it. I can't play standard length...I feel like I am squatting and it's very uncomfortable, even with +1-inch I feel like I am squatting down too much. And, the squatting is a lot more uncomfortable than a heavier SW. 

 

I wasn't aware that lighter heads were made! My last set of steel shafted irons were Ping's, and the SW was E6. 

Gotcha, So to be fair you are just used to a E2 swing weight?

 

I am just intrigued to be honest.  To me personally it seems that swing weight affects me the greatest compared to any artificial change like head forgiveness (Blade, GI, SGI) and shaft profiles, in relation to consistency/contact.

 

I mean I have played with a bunch of different setups trying to spec EACH setup similar outside of the actual shaft profile and unknowing swing weight. (To change ball flight)   But yet never realizing the swing weights being so different and Finding those different setups difficult to use.

 

Now knowing at least to spec swing weight as well I can likely better evaluate consistency?

 

I know you are a solid player but I wonder? Do you struggle with the E2 Swing weights and what if you went out of your way to source out lighter heads to get the head to a D2ish weight and played with those?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sean2]

3 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

Gotcha, So to be fair you are just used to a E2 swing weight?

 

I am just intrigued to be honest.  To me personally it seems that swing weight affects me the greatest compared to any artificial change like head forgiveness (Blade, GI, SGI) and shaft profiles, in relation to consistency/contact.

 

I mean I have played with a bunch of different setups trying to spec EACH setup similar outside of the actual shaft profile and unknowing swing weight. (To change ball flight)   But yet never realizing the swing weights being so different and Finding those different setups difficult to use.

 

Now knowing at least to spec swing weight as well I can likely better evaluate consistency?

 

I know you are a solid player but I wonder? Do you struggle with the E2 Swing weights and what if you went out of your way to source out lighter heads to get the head to a D2ish weight and played with those?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't remember the last time I played anything less than an "E" swing weight. It doesn't feel heavy to me, though since you have brought it up, the next time I am in the market for some irons I am going to inquire about lighter heads. It was never mentioned during any of my fittings. 

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, Sean2 said:

 

I can't remember the last time I played anything less than an "E" swing weight. It doesn't feel heavy to me, though since you have brought it up, the next time I am in the market for some irons I am going to inquire about lighter heads. It was never mentioned during any of my fittings. 

 

It normally wouldn't be brought up as part of most fittings (especially retail "fittings").  If they are available for the model you choose, they would normally automatically be used by the factory for an over length build - unless maybe the heavy swing weight was explicitly requested as part of the order.   You'd be better off contacting the OEM's customer support to check which models might have that option - although even that can be hit and miss depending on the quality of their CS training.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Stuart_G

[Spin Doctor]

The swing weight of my irons was drastically affected by using lighter weight grips. I went with Winn Dry-Tac Lite midsize grips (23gr), which are almost half the weight of conventional grips./ I would also keep in mind how the CG is affected by adding weight down the shaft.

[Stuart_G]

13 hours ago, Spin Doctor said:

 I would also keep in mind how the CG is affected by adding weight down the shaft.

 

You shouldn't.