Union League Clubs - Torresdale vs National

[njlam]

With COVID in the rearview mirror, I am fortunate to have the opportunity to play all three ULC courses later this month (Torresdale, Liberty Hill and National).

Any hints or suggestions on what to expect? I hear they are all very different, and your get different answers which best depending on who you ask.

 

Looking at the scorecard for National, I notice that there are three nine-hole segments: Meade, Grant, and Sherman. Any idea which 2 segments make up the most serious 18 hole golf course?

I am excited the play all three courses in a short period of time, and look forward to be able to rank them relative to one another as I do the Bandon courses.

[KMeloney]

1 hour ago, njlam said:

With COVID in the rearview mirror, I am fortunate to have the opportunity to play all three ULC courses later this month (Torresdale, Liberty Hill and National).

Any hints or suggestions on what to expect? I hear they are all very different, and your get different answers which best depending on who you ask.

 

Looking at the scorecard for National, I notice that there are three nine-hole segments: Meade, Grant, and Sherman. Any idea which 2 segments make up the most serious 18 hole golf course?

I am excited the play all three courses in a short period of time, and look forward to be able to rank them relative to one another as I do the Bandon courses.

 

Torresdale is an old-school, tightish, parkland course with small greens. When the greens are running, you can't afford to be above the hole. LH is gigantic in scale, with generous fairways and huge greens. It's largely unwalkable, due to some of the distance and elevation changes between some greens and the next tee. ULN feels like you're playing golf in Florida with the amount of water now snaking around the holes, with greens not unlike the Black course @ Streamsong. If you happened to play it as "Sand Barrens" back in the day, you won't recognize the course now. The amount of dirt that was moved is astounding, and the course is breathtaking. (None of the 27 holes is "unserious," so no worries there.) In a nutshell, I'd say that the three courses are nothing like one another.

 

Incidentally, you'll be playing a variation of Meade and Grant for the front nine, and all of Sherman on the back. All 27 holes won't be open until after July 1st. Two holes on Meade were just having their shaping completed a couple weeks ago, so no one really knows yet which will be the "best" two nines. Even when everything has been completed, there's an opportunity to establish a "championship" 18-hole course with an a la carte routing that uses holes from each nine that doesn't necessarily follow the sequencing of the holes/nines as they are now.

[njlam]

Thanks for the great overview. 

I was able the play the front nine of Torresdale last summer before a thunder/lightning storm ended my round. I agree with your assessment and enjoy this type of course.

As I prefer the walk when I play golf, I worry about how much I will like LH, but am looking forward to experiencing the property overall.

I hear National is the one everyone thinks may make ULC the Olympic Club of the east.

Will post a review and my order of preferences when I get back....also playing Aronimink and Baltusrol (Lower) on the same trip, so lots of great golf coming up.

[njlam]

I had the privilege of playing all three ULC courses last week and enjoyed myself immensely
 

The genius of the ULC golf course acquisition strategy is that they have a very diversified portfolio of fantastic properties, each of which is different and having unique characteristics. There is definitely something for everyone. Before I rank them, let me tell you my thoughts on each.

ULC Torresdale:
As I had played 9 holes of this one last year (before thunder ended the day), I knew it was going to be good. A classic Donald Ross design, the course was in great shape with the greens fast and sloped, and the rough thick (but mercifully not high). It is old school in every way (and I mean that as a good thing). The layout was a little unusual at a par 70 (34 out/36 in) with only two par 5s, however all the holes were so challenging it was hard to notice this limitation.

While the golf course proudly stands on its own, the traditions and the history of Torresdale are well represented by its clubhouse. The renovations (current and ongoing) are top-notch and the quality of the staff and service were over and above the food and beverage operations of the other two properties.

ULC Liberty Hill:
This was the surprise of the trip. Given it was only recently-acquired and was not a walkable course (I prefer to walk), my expectations were not high. However, starting with the long and scenic drive up to the clubhouse, I discovered Liberty Hill is an awesome golf property with great/expansive vistas and well-designed golf holes. If it was a walkable golf course, Liberty Hill could easily be considered a professional tour stop.

As the overall facility is less than 20 years old, the club house at Liberty Hill is quite modern and does not have the history/tradition of a Torresdale, but still make it a wonderful golf destination. With the conference and hotel facilities included in the acquisition, this will be a big revenue generator for big events both for ULC members and outside parties.

ULC National:
National is receiving a lot of buzz as a potential PGA tour stop, and after spending the day there, I can definitely see it, but perhaps not for a few years. This masterpiece is simply not yet finished.

 

We played a hybrid collection of 18 holes (out of the 27) and it was an awesome display of golf architecture and unique “made for golf” land. Incredible sand complexes, lots of water/forced carries, huge greens and generous fairways, there is a lot to like. It felt like being there at the beginning of the building of great courses like Pine Valley and Calusa Pines, with a little Bandon and Trump thrown in.

 

Some of the senior staff were nice to spend time with us after the round and shared some of the future plans for the golf course and overall physical plant. Well executed, this could become one of the best golf properties the area, and given who their neighbors are, that is a bold statement.

As the courses are so different, it is very hard to rank them, but in summary:

Torresdale is the most traditional golf club/course and the clubhouse/service really make it special.

Liberty Hill has the disadvantage (to me) of being a cart course, however, right now, its golf course is outstanding and is probably the best it can be.

National has the potential for greatness and the plans to be a truly amazing golf property/destination, but it isn’t there yet. It is a wonderful work in process and it will be exciting to watch its evolution.
 

Current rankings:
1. Liberty Hill
2. National
3. Torresdale

 

Future ranking (based on potential)
1. National
2. Liberty Hill
3. Torresdale

Edited May 18, 2022 by njlam

[KMeloney]

Excellent review. Glad to hear you had a good time at each course.

[jibbs1082]

On 5/17/2022 at 8:07 PM, njlam said:

ULC Liberty Hill:
 If it was a walkable golf course, Liberty Hill could easily be considered a professional tour stop.

I believe LH when it was "Eagle Lodge" hosted a PGA Sectional... and I think when it became ACE it hosted a tour exhibition event, the Exelon Challenge which had a few big names (Furyk, Daly, Goosen, Harrington etc) 

 

Nothing further came of it though, and its probably because of the poor routing between several holes, specifically between 5/6 & 12/13 which is absurd. Even 2/3, 8/9, 15/16 are excessive for any walker.

[jibbs1082]

On 5/17/2022 at 8:07 PM, njlam said:

Future ranking (based on potential)
1. National
2. Liberty Hill
3. Torresdale

 

Personally I would take a mint condition Torresdale over LH any day.

 

They had a long way to go restoring the course to proper shape, and sort of started with the clubhouse and facilities. Turf/Rough conditions seem to be exceptionally better this season. Still have flooding issues around the creek which I guess will never change.

 

 

 

 

[njlam]

As I said before, ULC has a nice portfolio of courses. If you don't like one, you can easily find something to like/love in another.

 

Upon further reflection, I think the reason I put Torresdale last is not because it is the worst course, but rather, it is really as good as it is likely to get. The course in great, but quirky (and flooding will always be an issue). In my opinion, the upgraded clubhouse and the long history/tradition are what makes this Donald Ross course special.

Liberty Hill and National on the other hand, have brighter futures ahead of them. The courses have so much more potential and the clubhouses and services can learn so much from Torresdale.

Both courses have enough land to make all the improvements necessary to make these courses truly special. I hope I can get invited again.

Edited May 30, 2022 by njlam

[sui generis]

Nice to hear all this Philly golf talk. I was a member of Torresdale-Frankford CC many years ago. In fact I got married there! A wedding picture under a tree on #18 hangs above our fireplace.  🙂

[hurley999s]

On 5/24/2022 at 9:20 PM, njlam said:

As I said before, ULC has a nice portfolio of courses. If you don't like one, you can easily find something to like/love in another.

 

Upon further reflection, I think the reason I put Torresdale last is not because it is the worst course, but rather, it is really as good as it is likely to get. The course in great, but quirky (and flooding will always be an issue). In my opinion, the upgraded clubhouse and the long history/tradition are what makes this Donald Ross course special.

Liberty Hill and National on the other hand, have brighter futures ahead of them. The courses have so much more potential and the clubhouses and services can learn so much from Torresdale.

Both courses have enough land to make all the improvements necessary to make these courses truly special. I hope I can get invited again.

Not to nitpick, but it is The Union League of Philadelphia, or just UL for short. There is no Union League Club, or ULC.