BallerNate’s WITB

[Shanks2424]

LOOKS TO BE A ROGUE ST 3 WOOD COMING YOUR WAY AS WELL IN THE FUTURE 

[jmagri78]

I was looking at the same driver today at GG, looking to replace that spot in my bag and cannot see spending more than $300 on a new driver for similar results.

 

How would you compare it to the Paradym in terms of forgiveness and accuracy? Thanks

[BallerNate]

1 hour ago, Shanks2424 said:

LOOKS TO BE A ROGUE ST 3 WOOD COMING YOUR WAY AS WELL IN THE FUTURE 

Haha…you would think so.
 

But I much prefer adjustable 3-Woods, so I never considered the Rogue ST Max 3W because of the glued hosel.

 

The Paradym X is the best 3-Wood I’ve ever hit, so it’s going to be very tough to kick out of the bag.

[BallerNate]

57 minutes ago, jmagri78 said:

I was looking at the same driver today at GG, looking to replace that spot in my bag and cannot see spending more than $300 on a new driver for similar results.

 

How would you compare it to the Paradym in terms of forgiveness and accuracy? Thanks

Totally understand. Part of this move was that I was looking at the 2025 Driver releases, and wasn’t really impressed with the options, or the price tags.

 

The Cally Elyte especially looks like it was co-designed with Costco or Top Flite, so that was a hard pass for me (especially for the price).

 

Here’s how I would compare the Rogue ST Max vs the Paradym X based on memory of gaming each for 1 season:

 

Looks: Rogue ST Max (large margin)

Feel: Rogue

Sound: Rogue

Distance: Rogue

 

Forgiveness: Paradym X (very close…Rogue is also very forgiving)

Dispersion: Paradym X

 

Obviously these are subjective and based on personal preference. But I definitely remember the Rogue ST Max being longer and hotter off the face.

 

The reason I chose the Paradym X at the beginning of last season is that I found the dispersion to be super tight. But it’s definitely spinnier, and doesn’t have the same kind of top end distance/horsepower.

 

We’ll see which head and shaft combo will win out for 2025, but my early favourite would be the Rogue ST Max (as of today). 😎🔥

[BallerNate]

6 hours ago, BallerNate said:

Went to my Golf Shop today to pick up some new grips, and instead I came out with this, Lol.

 

It was on sale, and when I came across it I started thinking about some of the longest drives of my life that I hit with it.

 

There were definitely times last season that I had regrets about selling it, and getting to test it with a Tensei AV Blue also was just too tempting to pass up.

 

Let the Rogue ST Max vs Paradym X part 2 battle begin!! 

Just an update that I’ve been alerted that the Rogue ST Max that I bought today is a re-released “2024” version by Callaway that is a stripped down discount version.

 

This version doesn’t include Jailbreak, Flash Face, or Carbon etc.

 

In other words, a junk reproduction mass produced for Callaway to take advantage of the Rogue reputation and cash in.

 

I feel like I’ve been robbed by a company that I really trusted…very crappy feeling.

 

Here is the thread about this knockoff version Cally has released: https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/2035698-warning-psa-about-rogue-st-max-24-scam/page/2/

 

Edited January 31 by BallerNate

[Shanks2424]

11 hours ago, BallerNate said:

Just an update that I’ve been alerted that the Rogue ST Max that I bought today is a re-released “2024” version by Callaway that is a stripped down discount version.

 

This version doesn’t include Jailbreak, Flash Face, or Carbon etc.

 

In other words, a junk reproduction mass produced for Callaway to take advantage of the Rogue reputation and cash in.

 

I feel like I’ve been robbed by a company that I really trusted…very crappy feeling.

 

Here is the thread about this knockoff version Cally has released: https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/2035698-warning-psa-about-rogue-st-max-24-scam/page/2/

 

SEND THAT BACK AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK

[sergizmo]

Sorry to hear that Nate. I think Cobra did the same thing with the F9 and Taylormade with the SIm Max.

 

Just call it something different so customers won't be deceived. 

 

Can you return it? Unhit right?

[BallerNate]

Thanks very much for the kind words Fellas.

 

I just returned the knock-off “Rogue ST Max” to my Golf shop (Golf Town), and they apologized and felt bad about it.

 

I called Callaway Canada afterwards, and I’m waiting for a call back from them.

 

The way @Callaway Golf Official handle that conversation will determine whether I will be able to buy Callaway clubs again in the future or not. Right now I feel like the respect and trust is broken, but we’ll see if they can make it right and try to keep my business.

 

If not, I’ll be a “Free-Agent” for a go-to Woods manufacturer unfortunately…Smh.

[Shanks2424]

23 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

 

Thanks very much for the kind words Fellas.

 

I just returned the knock-off “Rogue ST Max” to my Golf shop (Golf Town), and they apologized and felt bad about it.

 

I called Callaway Canada afterwards, and I’m waiting for a call back from them.

 

The way @Callaway Golf Official handle that conversation will determine whether I will be able to buy Callaway clubs again in the future or not. Right now I feel like the respect and trust is broken, but we’ll see if they can make it right and try to keep my business.

 

If not, I’ll be a “Free-Agent” for a go-to Woods manufacturer unfortunately…Smh.

I don't blame you at all.

[BallerNate]

6 hours ago, Shanks2424 said:

I don't blame you at all.

Yeah my man, it’s very frustrating because I finally had an OEM where I had their Woods and Hybrids dialed in and with the right specs.

 

Now I have to figure out where I go from here with Callaway, and where I go with my bag going forward. 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️

[Shanks2424]

@BallerNate did they respond to you. Sounds to me like you’re going to be getting rid of all callaway proud????

[BallerNate]

7 hours ago, Shanks2424 said:

@BallerNate did they respond to you. Sounds to me like you’re going to be getting rid of all callaway proud????

Yeah, Callaway called me back.

 

The rep I spoke with doubled down and basically said, "Callaway is not marketing the Rogue ST Max 2024 as being comparable to the original Rogue ST Max". Their position is that it's a totally different club designed for the entry-level market.

 

He put it on the retailer (Golf Town here in Canada) to advise customers that the Rogue ST Max 2024 doesn't have the technology and features of the original Rogue ST Max, and that Callaway made this club to reach a different part of the market that wouldn't be in the premium market of the A.I. Smoke, Elyte, or original Rogue ST Max.

 

I let the rep know that if that's what their intentions are, they should make a totally different looking club, like the Edge that is sold at Costco, and to manufacture a club that looks identical to the original Rogue ST Max, and is being sold in high level Golf shops alongside premium products is misleading, and that the average buyer will have no idea that they are buying an inferior stripped down product.

 

So now I understand that Callaway basically has 3 classifications:

1) Entry level mass consumer market

2) Premium level consumer market

3) Tour only products

 

All 3 tiers of clubs are designed to look identical, but only knowledgeable and discerning gear heads can tell the difference. And they cash in on all of it.

[Shanks2424]

@BallerNate that’s kinda a bs answer in my opinion. Might be changing my top end of the bag and my wedges at the end of this season (Titleist or Mizuno) now even though I love my 3 wood and wedges a lot.

[BallerNate]

20 hours ago, sergizmo said:

Sorry to hear that Nate. I think Cobra did the same thing with the F9 and Taylormade with the SIm Max.

 

Just call it something different so customers won't be deceived. 

This is the problem I have now Serge, I’ve lost trust in Callaway, but TaylorMade did the same thing with the M2, M4, and SIM Max apparently.

 

And Cobra did the same thing with the F9.

 

So the only options left for OEM’s that don’t make clones of their own clubs and don’t conduct shady business is Titleist, PING, Srixon, and Mizuno unfortunately.

 

Very sad that this is the way it is, and so few companies conduct business in an ethical way…SMH.

[BallerNate]

1 hour ago, Shanks2424 said:

@BallerNate that’s kinda a bs answer in my opinion. Might be changing my top end of the bag and my wedges at the end of this season (Titleist or Mizuno) now even though I love my 3 wood and wedges a lot.

100%…it’s a horrible answer.

 

But if TaylorMade (M2, M4, and SIM Max), and Cobra (F9) have done the same thing, then the water is starting to look very murky.

 

Callaway made Woods and Hybrids that have worked really well for me, so it’s really frustrating that I have to research OEM’s now based on Specs, Performance. Cost, and also Ethics…SMH!!

 

I’m definitely in a very frustrating place right now with my equipment man…brutal.

[sergizmo]

1 hour ago, BallerNate said:

This is the problem I have now Serge, I’ve lost trust in Callaway, but TaylorMade did the same thing with the M2, M4, and SIM Max apparently.

 

And Cobra did the same thing with the F9.

 

So the only options left for OEM’s that don’t make clones of their own clubs and don’t conduct shady business is Titleist, PING, Srixon, and Mizuno unfortunately.

 

Very sad that this is the way it is, and so few companies conduct business in an ethical way…SMH.

The new Tour Edge Exotics line of woods and hybrids looks very, very nice. Can order custom right from the website, assembled in the US and good prices. May be one to add to your list. A 10K driver for $591 CAD...

 

Tour Edge also seems to be ethical in how they structure and advertise: with clear entry level (Bazooka), mid-range (Hot Launch) and high end (Exotics) ranges.

Edited February 1 by sergizmo

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, BallerNate said:

100%…it’s a horrible answer.

 

But if TaylorMade (M2, M4, and SIM Max), and Cobra (F9) have done the same thing, then the water is starting to look very murky.

 

Callaway made Woods and Hybrids that have worked really well for me, so it’s really frustrating that I have to research OEM’s now based on Specs, Performance. Cost, and also Ethics…SMH!!

 

I’m definitely in a very frustrating place right now with my equipment man…brutal.

 

Unfortunately , i would be just as upset with Golftown as with Callaway. The rep you spoke to isn't really wrong in a sense... though i also think this is a pretty shady practice by Callaway (making it look so similar). 

 

But Golftown is also making the decision to do things better left to Walmart and going really downscale here. They shouldn't even be selling these. I wonder if there is even a legal argument here if this club is not on their site and not marketed...it's essentially a knock-off of it's own product. 

 

I order exclusively from my pro shop now (or @sergizmo, of course lol).

 

Golftown has gone downhill quite a bit in last decade

 

[BallerNate]

1 hour ago, sergizmo said:

The new Tour Edge Exotics line of woods and hybrids looks very, very nice. Can order custom right from the website, assembled in the US and good prices. May be one to add to your list. A 10K driver for $591 CAD...

 

Tour Edge also seems to be ethical in how they structure and advertise: with clear entry level (Bazooka), mid-range (Hot Launch) and high end (Exotics) ranges.

Thanks for the heads up…will definitely keep that in consideration for sure.

[BallerNate]

45 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Unfortunately , i would be just as upset with Golftown as with Callaway. The rep you spoke to isn't really wrong in a sense... though i also think this is a pretty shady practice by Callaway (making it look so similar). 

 

But Golftown is also making the decision to do things better left to Walmart and going really downscale here. They shouldn't even be selling these. I wonder if there is even a legal argument here if this club is not on their site and not marketed...it's essentially a knock-off of it's own product. 

 

I order exclusively from my pro shop now (or @sergizmo, of course lol).

 

Golftown has gone downhill quite a bit in last decade

 

100%, there’s definitely blame to be placed on Golf Town as well, and lots of questions to be asked from them also.

 

It’s not right that these clone “Rogue ST Max 24” clubs are displayed right out front along with all the premium products and new releases, and there were no signs calling them “ST Max 24” or making it seem like they’re anything other than the OG version.

 

It’s shady, crappy business all-round and I’m absolutely disgusted by the whole thing…SMH!!

[sergizmo]

11 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Unfortunately , i would be just as upset with Golftown as with Callaway. The rep you spoke to isn't really wrong in a sense... though i also think this is a pretty shady practice by Callaway (making it look so similar). 

 

But Golftown is also making the decision to do things better left to Walmart and going really downscale here. They shouldn't even be selling these. I wonder if there is even a legal argument here if this club is not on their site and not marketed...it's essentially a knock-off of it's own product. 

 

I order exclusively from my pro shop now (or @sergizmo, of course lol).

 

Golftown has gone downhill quite a bit in last decade

 

Golftown is a big box store. There are very few independent, small golf retailers left. A big box is going to run like a big box, that's just the way it is.

 

Ottawa used to have Chuck Browns on Somerset St and Roger Dunn on Carling Ave. I really miss Chuck Browns. Had a steady stream of used clubs going through and the guys there really enjoyed talking about gear and would spend time with customers. Got my first set of clubs there in 2000 and continued buying at Chuck Browns until they closed in 2007. After that shopped at Roger Dunn until they closed.

 

Simpler times.

[BallerNate]

7 hours ago, sergizmo said:

Golftown is a big box store. There are very few independent, small golf retailers left. A big box is going to run like a big box, that's just the way it is.

 

Ottawa used to have Chuck Browns on Somerset St and Roger Dunn on Carling Ave. I really miss Chuck Browns. Had a steady stream of used clubs going through and the guys there really enjoyed talking about gear and would spend time with customers. Got my first set of clubs there in 2000 and continued buying at Chuck Browns until they closed in 2007. After that shopped at Roger Dunn until they closed.

 

Simpler times.

Yeah for sure, Golf Town isn’t for everyone.

 

They’ve actually treated me very well over the years, and they’re my favourite store overall, so I can’t complain about them too much.

 

I didn’t know you were from Ottawa though…small World! I’m from Ottawa too…used to live at Somerset and Preston, and went to Glebe Collegiate! The good old days!! 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽

[BallerNate]

Just to wrap up the situation with Callaway and let you guys know what happened.

 

I called Callaway the last 2 days and asked to speak to a Manager. Both days they said the Manager would call me back, and yesterday the Rep actually told me that the Manager was right next to him walking down the hallway.

 

Both days the Manager wouldn’t accept the call being transferred, and he wouldn’t take the 5 mins to call me back.

 

So not only is Callaway taking advantage of consumers by selling a clone/knock-off of the Rogue ST Max, they also don’t have the decency and respect to call a customer that has bought EIGHT Drivers, SIX 3-Woods, and SIX Hybrids over the last 4 years.

 

I will officially never buy another club from Callaway, and I’ll be trying to phase out their equipment from my bag as fast as possible due to lack of Ethics, and not caring about their Customers.

 

Edited February 2 by BallerNate

[Shanks2424]

21 hours ago, BallerNate said:

Just to wrap up the situation with Callaway and let you guys know what happened.

 

I called Callaway the last 2 days and asked to speak to a Manager. Both days they said the Manager would call me back, and yesterday the Rep actually told me that the Manager was right next to him walking down the hallway.

 

Both days the Manager wouldn’t accept the call being transferred, and he wouldn’t take the 5 mins to call me back.

 

So not only is Callaway taking advantage of consumers by selling a clone/knock-off of the Rogue ST Max, they also don’t have the decency and respect to call a customer that has bought EIGHT Drivers, SIX 3-Woods, and SIX Hybrids over the last 4 years.

 

I will officially never buy another club from Callaway, and I’ll be trying to phase out their equipment from my bag as fast as possible due to lack of Ethics, and not caring about their Customers.

 

THAT IS SOME BS ON CALLAWAY DONT THINK I WILL BE BUYING ANYMORE CALLAWAY PRODUCTS ANYTIME SOON AS WELL.

[BagofToast]

On 2/1/2025 at 12:13 PM, BallerNate said:

100%, there’s definitely blame to be placed on Golf Town as well, and lots of questions to be asked from them also.

 

It’s not right that these clone “Rogue ST Max 24” clubs are displayed right out front along with all the premium products and new releases, and there were no signs calling them “ST Max 24” or making it seem like they’re anything other than the OG version.

 

It’s shady, crappy business all-round and I’m absolutely disgusted by the whole thing…SMH!!

I knew about the TM clone but didn’t know about the Cobras. Anytime I’ve seen the clone M4 it’s been labeled as “Taylormade 24’ M4” not that it’s ok to use the same name if it’s not the same thing but at least there is a distinction. 

[MtlJeff]

Overall this would have left a pretty sour taste in my mouth also......i think it's pretty crappy they wouldn't really talk to you about it either. Especially since they are generally regarded as being good in CS. 

 

TBH i've gone after some companies online that i felt mis-represented their offering, the most recent time was a headcover company that is decent sized. The owner of the company called me the next day , followed by a senior CSR like 60 minutes later. Explained everything, misunderstanding etc etc. By the end of it all i bought like 500$ more of their stuff

 

How you fix problems is more important than the problems. This is a lesson that is always true and anyone in sales and marketing should know that

[BallerNate]

3 hours ago, Shanks2424 said:

THAT IS SOME BS ON CALLAWAY DONT THINK I WILL BE BUYING ANYMORE CALLAWAY PRODUCTS ANYTIME SOON AS WELL.

Yeah it is…complete B.S.

 

Not taking accountability for selling manufacturing misleading clones/knock-offs is already bad enough, but then not even providing basic customer service and treating me like a human being adds salt to the wounds.

 

Officially done with Callaway, and already working on replacing the top end of my bag unfortunately.

[BallerNate]

2 hours ago, BagofToast said:

I knew about the TM clone but didn’t know about the Cobras. Anytime I’ve seen the clone M4 it’s been labeled as “Taylormade 24’ M4” not that it’s ok to use the same name if it’s not the same thing but at least there is a distinction. 

Yeah, I had no idea that OEM’s were in the business of cloning their own products, and these last few days have been very eye opening.

 

In other industries these practices would be illegal, and it’s definitely un-ethical…but now we know we have to have our guard up and protect ourselves against shady/garbage products from OEM’s…SMDH!! 🤮🤮

[BallerNate]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

Overall this would have left a pretty sour taste in my mouth also......i think it's pretty crappy they wouldn't really talk to you about it either. Especially since they are generally regarded as being good in CS. 

 

TBH i've gone after some companies online that i felt mis-represented their offering, the most recent time was a headcover company that is decent sized. The owner of the company called me the next day , followed by a senior CSR like 60 minutes later. Explained everything, misunderstanding etc etc. By the end of it all i bought like 500$ more of their stuff

 

How you fix problems is more important than the problems. This is a lesson that is always true and anyone in sales and marketing should know that

Exactly my man…it’s just basic customer service, and just treating people like human beings.

 

But clearly Callaway doesn’t care about losing me as a loyal customer, and they don’t care about all the people they’re misleading and ripping off with garbage knock-off products. It’s all about their Corporate profits and keeping the cash rolling in, but this tarnishes their business in the long run and de-values their company and image BIG TIME.

[MtlJeff]

3 hours ago, BallerNate said:

Exactly my man…it’s just basic customer service, and just treating people like human beings.

 

But clearly Callaway doesn’t care about losing me as a loyal customer, and they don’t care about all the people they’re misleading and ripping off with garbage knock-off products. It’s all about their Corporate profits and keeping the cash rolling in, but this tarnishes their business in the long run and de-values their company and image BIG TIME.

 

What's interesting is i didn't even know they did this. 

 

I started a thread at the other place, which works with Callaway a good deal , and even most people there thought this was pretty sketchy, or didn't know this was commonly done. 

[BallerNate]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

What's interesting is i didn't even know they did this. 

 

I started a thread at the other place, which works with Callaway a good deal , and even most people there thought this was pretty sketchy, or didn't know this was commonly done. 

Yeah, it’s sketchy AF.

 

And Callaway has no interest in owning up to it, and the information is being buried by mods in the “Deal or No Deal” section of the Forum instead of leaving it in the main Equipment section.

 

It’s a slimy situation all-round man…absolutely gross.