Getting Taller or Shorter during Backswing? Please Explain - Thanks!

[thed0n]

Hello, I just watched a bunch of pro swings that Jeff Brehaut posted on his Instagram.  Most swings showed the head lowering to some degree (i.e., the player is getting "shorter") during the backswing (and all swings showed the head lowering at the start of the downswing). I've also heard that for some people it helps to feel taller during the backswing.  In fact, to fix my sway off the ball during the backswing, I've used the "get taller" feel to stay centered.  And it worked!

 

Do some good players actually get taller during the backswing?  Or do most players get shorter during the backswing but the feel of getting taller may help correct certain backswing issues, i.e., it's a feel vs. real situation.  Also, if some good players get taller during the backswing and some get shorter, what "matchups" promote the different results?  Put simply, why does each occur?  Would love the input and edification!  Thanks.

[Nard_S]

AMG has a video on this, they say most Pro's get shorter going to the top and get shorter still coming down. About 1 1/2" altogether before the extension of body fully kicks in.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Monte has some thoughts on this:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJYzf3nlPo2/?igshid=1k1y0wjovivlz

[airjammer]

A good portion of what determines that is how much you allow the right leg to lose flex in the backswing and spine extension at the top. 
 

With the gasp system becoming more popular I think you will see more elite golfers with their head level or even increase a slight bit in height at the top of the backswing. If you have spine extension, really push up with your trail leg and have a fairly steep shoulder plane it unweights the lead foot which can provide a lot of speed. Basically Kyle Berkshire’s backswing. 
 

I know for me personally..if my head goes down on the backswing it almost guarantees that it will come up into impact 🤮

[nvr3putt]

In my experience, if my head or upper body lifts during the backswing it tells me that I'm not using my lower body and leg muscles enough. 

[thed0n]

I think this is what has happened to me lately.  I botched the “get taller” feeling to the point that my trail hip is losing depth as I extend from the spine during the backswing.  For those that get taller during the backswing, I think the key is to do so while maintaining hip depth. If not, the tendency could be to get taller by bringing the trail hip closer to the ball or by actually standing up which I’m pretty sure is bad...

Edited January 24, 2021 by thed0n

[mocokid]

Have a look at Zach Allens video on foot pressure, especially Molinari's drill contained within.  Molinari gets shorter than explodes off the left foot. 

[thed0n]

Yes, after reading all the replies, and giving this some additional thought over the past few days — I think that for those that early extend, it’s probably advantageous to get shorter during the backswing so as to have the best chance of maintaining hips depth during the downswing.  For those that don’t have early extension problems or have mastered the zipper away downswing move, then getting taller or staying the same probably works better.  That’s my working theory for now but I’m still conflicted. Hahahahaha!

Edited January 26, 2021 by thed0n

[Krt22]

12 minutes ago, thed0n said:

Yes, after reading all the replies, and giving this some additional thought over the past few days — I think that for those that early extend, it’s probably advantageous to get shorter during the backswing so as to have the best chance of maintaining hips depth during the downswing.  For those that don’t have early extension problems or have mastered the zipper away downswing move, then getting taller or staying the same probably works better.  That’s my working theory for now but I’m still conflicted. Hahahahaha!

It's actually the exact opposite most of the time. Those who early extend do so because they would more likely than not bottom out the swing well behind the ball, because they aren't extending properly in the backswing. If you dont extend, you typically turn and rotate well off the ball, if you squatted from there you'd hit it 2 feet behind the ball. The zipper away move (aka the squat, falling down,etc)  is also known as regaining flexion, in order to regain flexion, you need to extend properly first. These are dynamic forces, so in order to achieve one, you need to do the opposite first

Edited January 26, 2021 by Krt22

[thed0n]

Thanks for the knowledge Krt22.  

[Zitlow]

My swing model is Mike Austin. He used his pivot to maintain the level of his head until is right arm was parallel to the ground.

 

Also, you don't have to jump out of your shoes to hit the ball a long way. 

 

 

[scooterhd2]

forward shaft lean at impact. hands higher at impact than the were at address. pulling the handle and club up and to the left. 

 

the body has to lower to return the clubface to the ball and also helps to shallow the swing. 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by scooterhd2

[Krt22]

10 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

forward shaft lean at impact. hands higher at impact than the were at address. pulling the handle and club up and to the left. 

 

the body has to lower to return the clubface to the ball and also helps to shallow the swing. 

 

 

 

That is at impact, in order to get to that impact position to need certain elements in transition, your backswing position will directly impact if those transition elements are correct.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJYzf3nlPo2/

[scooterhd2]

15 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

That is at impact, in order to get to that impact position to need certain elements in transition, your backswing position will directly impact if those transition elements are correct.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJYzf3nlPo2/

 

I dont disagree with Monte, but in that clip, I think he is exaggerating the extension by standing a bit taller. You do need to extend the right side, but extension and height are different. In his full speed swing his head is at the same height or actually lower at the top of the backswing. 

[Krt22]

3 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

 

I dont disagree with Monte, but in that clip, I think he is exaggerating the extension by standing a bit taller. You do need to extend the right side, but extension and height are different. In his full speed swing his head is at the same height or actually lower at the top of the backswing. 

Yes, but for those who maintain flex and rotate off the ball (like he demonstrated), they are going to need to feel like they are getting taller in order to properly extend in the backswing. You can rotate off the ball and have a flat turn with no left side bend and only lose a bit of height in a 2D view, but that is not a good position to be in. 

[mikpga]

Maintain Your Inclination to the Ground...

[nvr3putt]

31 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

That is at impact, in order to get to that impact position to need certain elements in transition, your backswing position will directly impact if those transition elements are correct.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJYzf3nlPo2/

I didn't know Guy Fieri moonlighted as a golf instructor. What a talented guy! 😆😆

[thed0n]

But does anyone have any insight as to why  some really good ball strikers, if not most, get shorter during the backswing and even shorter at the start of the transition?  After all, isn’t the counter balance of having the hips move back away from the ball creating greater hip depth that the head lowers? Surely, that can’t be that bad, right!?  
 

In typical golf fashion, getting taller is correct if you can do “a, b, and c.” And getting shorter works if you “x, y, and z.”  Just have to figure it out.

Edited January 27, 2021 by thed0n

[highpro]

“Really good ball strikers” means great iron players. Hogan, Trevino, etc. great iron play means shaft lean, so you can control the spin and trajectory, thus the distance. You see, leaning the shaft makes the functional length of the club shorter. Consequently there is a chicken and the egg with shaft lean and head drop. Lots of lag, lots of shaft lean, head goes down. 

[Hilts1969]

4 hours ago, thed0n said:

But does anyone have any insight as to why  some really good ball strikers, if not most, get shorter during the backswing and even shorter at the start of the transition?  After all, isn’t the counter balance of having the hips move back away from the ball creating greater hip depth that the head lowers? Surely, that can’t be that bad, right!?  
 

In typical golf fashion, getting taller is correct if you can do “a, b, and c.” And getting shorter works if you “x, y, and z.”  Just have to figure it out.

 

It’s a bit simpler than you think and if you are looking at people’s heads in the backswing to determine height it can confuse you.

 

the more your left shoulder works down the lower the head will drop

 

the more you turn your shoulder the lower the head will be

 

test it out drop your left shoulder as low as possible and turn your shoulders to the absolute max, quite a lot of lowering then just extend from your hips, height added but probably still a tad lower than where you started.

 

 

[Krt22]

11 hours ago, thed0n said:

But does anyone have any insight as to why  some really good ball strikers, if not most, get shorter during the backswing and even shorter at the start of the transition?  After all, isn’t the counter balance of having the hips move back away from the ball creating greater hip depth that the head lowers? Surely, that can’t be that bad, right!?  
 

In typical golf fashion, getting taller is correct if you can do “a, b, and c.” And getting shorter works if you “x, y, and z.”  Just have to figure it out.

How much shorter and how they are actually getting shorter matters, so looking at head height alone can be misleading if you aren't looking how the body is moving. As as good players extend, they also increase left side bend in order to maintain their inclination to the ground, some players will drop slightly in this setup but its a good position (assuming their hips are working correct). Other's lose excessive amounts of height by maintaining too much flex and rotating off the ball and some appear to maintain a good height but are just turning very flat. So it's can very easily be a feel vs real scenario depending on what change you are trying to make

[MonteScheinblum]

You don’t want to get taller, but you have to extend the torso/spine or you will get shorter the wrong way.

 

”Getting shorter” involves MANY variables.

 

Including, but not limited to:  Left shoulder working down, left knee adding flex......and the shift starting sooner and working down into the ground versus purely lateral.

 

Most ams are stuck on the right side at the top and if you’re getting shorter and you’re stuck on the right side, it’s BAD, BAD, BAAAAAAAAD.

[thed0n]

Thank you all for the clarifications.  It is very much appreciated.  I think I understand it now!

[DeadPoets]

I personally like feeling like I get taller (and sometimes I actually do get a bit taller). This allows me to really squat in transition, shallow the club, and not early extend.

 

Do this drill. Line up in impact position. Then take a backswing from there and hit the ball. You’ll notice that you really get the feeling of getting taller, and you let the club drop into the slot as you squat and rotate. 
 

if I get shorter in BS I end up with no room to go lower in DS (hello early extension).