Dynamic Lie Angle Fitting for Woods?

[laxwax]

I do dynamic lie angle fitting for irons and wedges. I adjust each individually based on testing and repeat until I get the most consistent perpendicular line on each iron.

 

Let’s say I can bend the wood how I want, so not just a clocking sleeve or ferrule.

 

Do you or can you do the same thing for woods? Adjust lie to get a perpendicular line in the same manner.
 

Or just go by flight? Want less left, go flatter, want less right, go upright and don’t worry about the dynamic lie angle test line.

 

Or dynamic lie fit first and then use face angle for preferred flight?

[mgoblue83]

Go by flight if the adapter sleeve allows a change to lie angle.

 

It can make a small difference but is usually a look/confidence thing with driver. Lie angle matters a lot more with higher lofted clubs and turf interaction. 

[Hack Daddy]

I got flammed for saying driver/wood lie angle fitting is just as important as irons. lmao.

[mgoblue83]

8 minutes ago, Hack Daddy said:

I got flammed for saying driver/wood lie angle fitting is just as important as irons. lmao.

Nobody should be flamed but it has much less effect with woods than it does with irons. The more loft you have the more lie angle affects flight. 

 

Imagine having loft of 0 degrees where the ball would launch exactly straight and perpendicular to the face. If you tilt the face upright or flat the ball would still launch exactly the same so changing the lie angle would have zero impact. 

 

[laxwax]

2 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

Go by flight if the adapter sleeve allows a change to lie angle.

 

It can make a small difference but is usually a look/confidence thing with driver. Lie angle matters a lot more with higher lofted clubs and turf interaction. 

Right on. I get that with the driver and 3/5 wood loft range.
 

I’m looking at 23 degree 7/9 woods range and also hybrids in the 25 to 28 range. 
 

So I was thinking it matters a little bit up in that loft range. Like what is the loft cutoff for woods or hybrids when you really start needing to focus on that fitting parameter.

[mgoblue83]

1 minute ago, laxwax said:

Right on. I get that with the driver and 3/5 wood loft range.
 

I’m looking at 23 degree 7/9 woods range and also hybrids in the 25 to 28 range. 
 

So I was thinking it matters a little bit up in that loft range. Like what is the loft cutoff for woods or hybrids when you really start needing to focus on that fitting parameter.

 

Different for everyone - test, test test..

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

Nobody should be flamed but it has much less effect with woods than it does with irons. The more loft you have the more lie angle affects flight. 

 

Imagine having loft of 0 degrees where the ball would launch exactly straight and perpendicular to the face. If you tilt the face upright or flat the ball would still launch exactly the same so changing the lie angle would have zero impact. 

 

 

It can change our contact point on the face, especially from normal to tighter fairway lies.  Think of a hybrid arriving at impact with a lie angle 4-5* too upright, from a tight lie

[mgoblue83]

22 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

It can change our contact point on the face, especially from normal to tighter fairway lies.  Think of a hybrid arriving at impact with a lie angle 4-5* too upright, from a tight lie

 

Yes, it is dependent on the player and should be tested but in general lie angle affects higher lofted clubs more than lower lofted clubs. 

[Stuart_G]

17 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

but in general lie angle affects higher lofted clubs more than lower lofted clubs. 

 

Common misconception but not true.   It really doesn't vary that much among the set.    A bit more in the mid-irons and tapers down for longer clubs and wedges but the difference only ranges about a yard per degree the lie angle is off though the set (for a 250 yard driver player).

 

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/lie1.php

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Stuart_G

[mgoblue83]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Common misconception but not true.   It really doesn't vary that much among the set.    A bit more in the mid-irons and tapers down for longer clubs and wedges but the difference only ranges about a yard per degree the lie angle is off though the set (for a 250 yard driver player).

 

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/lie1.php

 

 

@Stuart_G I think we had this discussion before and you are talking about total dispersion for each club (please correct me if I misinterpreted your data). I have no reason to doubt that data but I think the affect on start line is more important than total dispersion. I'm pretty sure lie angle affects the launch direction significantly more as you go up in loft even if the total dispersion is similar because of shorter distance travelled. 

 

Personally, when a wedge is off by more than a degree or 2 the ball feels like it's launching dead left/right and I have no control over launch direction. With a long iron that is off a degree or 2 the ball is still launching fairly straight with some draw or fade tilt. Even if both shots miss the green in the same place it's soul crushing to be unable to start a wedge at your target and to be missing greens from 100 yds. 

 

 

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Common misconception but not true.   It really doesn't vary that much among the set.    A bit more in the mid-irons and tapers down for longer clubs and wedges but the difference only ranges about a yard per degree the lie angle is off though the set (for a 250 yard driver player).

 

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/lie1.php

 

Yes its really a old myth, but i think i has a explanation, and that is that 3-5 yards offline dont matter for a driver, but if we loose the pin with 3-5 yards on approach it does since that might be a put extra to finish up it instead of only a single put. We talk distance vs precision clubs, and for distance we always have some room for errors, on approach shots we demand better dispersion so i think this is why we say lie dont matter much for drivers....

[dlygrisse]

These modern adjustable hosels like Ping uses now are great.  I go to the range and just test hit balls and change the settings to see what my ball flight is doing.  Don't just pound balls, make sure your alignment is correct and go through your pre-shot routine.  You will notice some differences, and you may find you want different settings in your 3 wood vs. your 5 wood.  So I don't do a Sharpie test like I would an iron, but since it is so easy to make an adjustment, a little trial and error goes a long way.  

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Yes its really a old myth, but i think i has a explanation, and that is that 3-5 yards offline dont matter for a driver, but if we loose the pin with 3-5 yards on approach it does since that might be a put extra to finish up it instead of only a single put. We talk distance vs precision clubs, and for distance we always have some room for errors, on approach shots we demand better dispersion so i think this is why we say lie dont matter much for drivers....

 

I agree that people have higher expectations for accuracy with the shorter clubs. 

 

But I'd also throw out that it's only really at the highest level that players have good enough aim and the accuracy where the 2-3 yard error is going to make a noticeable difference in someones game.

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

@Stuart_G I think we had this discussion before and you are talking about total dispersion for each club (please correct me if I misinterpreted your data). I have no reason to doubt that data but I think the affect on start line is more important than total dispersion. I'm pretty sure lie angle affects the launch direction significantly more as you go up in loft even if the total dispersion is similar because of shorter distance travelled. 

 

Personally, when a wedge is off by more than a degree or 2 the ball feels like it's launching dead left/right and I have no control over launch direction. With a long iron that is off a degree or 2 the ball is still launching fairly straight with some draw or fade tilt. Even if both shots miss the green in the same place it's soul crushing to be unable to start a wedge at your target and to be missing greens from 100 yds. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, the numbers are for total offline error - which is what really matters to most - where the ball ends up relative to where you wanted it to go.    But if you have other priorities, there is nothing wrong with that.   Ball flight matching expectations and one's ability to judge how offline it might be can be a factor in ones confidence.   But for most am's their natural dispersion with the wedge will generally be a lot bigger than the error for the lie angle being off a couple of degrees.

 

BTW, in case you didn't notice, the link also had the offline directional error (in degrees) by loft as well as the offline distance errors.