The Stack System

[Admhowarth]

Anyone have trouble differentiating between Max and Full? I in nearing completion of my second session (EDIT - PROGRAM is the right term) and I feel like my new Full is closer to my old Max.  

It is probably more confusing to me that I dont seem to have another gear to get more more in the Max, but encouraged that it feels like my floor in the Full Swing is better than it was before. 

Not sure if the next 'step change' in progress comes from 1) better technique, 2) getting stronger (weights / training), 3) consistency and patiently waiting, or 4) a combo of everything. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Admhowarth
clarity

[Chief Penguin]

6 hours ago, Admhowarth said:

Anyone have trouble differentiating between Max and Full? I in nearing completion of my second session and I feel like my new Full is closer to my old Max.  

It is probably more confusing to me that I dont seem to have another gear to get more more in the Max, but encouraged that it feels like my floor in the Full Swing is better than it was before. 

Not sure if the next 'step change' in progress comes from 1) better technique, 2) getting stronger (weights / training), 3) consistency and patiently waiting, or 4) a combo of everything. 

Sometimes I find it helpful to watch a video of Martin Borgmeier or someone swing a driver to get an idea of what “max” means,  but more often trying that kind of a swing is just more movement/ineffectual.

 

I have a really low delta among my sets right now and I’m curious if others do. Like today at 195 grams I did 106 4x and 105 1x. I am still finding at least one new personal record for some weight on most sessions but 106 mph has been a ceiling for ~2 weeks, which doesn’t trouble me.

 

I was at a fitting yesterday and swinging 3 wood 112-113 on quad, which is probably 10 mph faster than a year ago

Edited April 13, 2023 by Chief Penguin

[dcmidnight]

18 hours ago, Admhowarth said:

Anyone have trouble differentiating between Max and Full? I in nearing completion of my second session and I feel like my new Full is closer to my old Max.  

 

IMO this is exactly how it should be after a while - although only two sessions in I would draw zero conclusions.

 

But IMO as your speed goes up, your new Full/cruising speed will probably get closer to what your maxed out old swing was.

[GGTTH]

Last couple sessions of the Foundations program have been rather disappointing to be honest.

[GolfTurkey]

After several months of very small Stack gains and little to no transfer to the driver or the course, I decided to take Mike Carroll’s (Fit for Golf) advice and finish every Stack session with 10-20 actual driver swings (hitting a ball).

 

I have finally seen a significant jump in driver speed back to where I was 12-18 months ago. At this stage I can’t actually tell if the driver swings are all I need or whether it’s FFG and/or the Stack in conjunction with the driver swings causing the speed boost.

[Tiger_Stud]

3 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

After several months of very small Stack gains and little to no transfer to the driver or the course, I decided to take Mike Carroll’s (Fit for Golf) advice and finish every Stack session with 10-20 actual driver swings (hitting a ball).

 

I have finally seen a significant jump in driver speed back to where I was 12-18 months ago. At this stage I can’t actually tell if the driver swings are all I need or whether it’s FFG and/or the Stack in conjunction with the driver swings causing the speed boost.

Transferring my Stack gains to the driver is my problem as well. I made some significant gains with a current eSpeed of 111 mph. The max clubhead speed I can get when actually hitting a ball is only 102 - 103 mph. The max I get when swinging the driver without a ball is 105 mph. Any tricks that would get me closer to that theoretical speed of 111 mph when actually having a ball in front of me?

[GolfTurkey]

7 hours ago, Tiger_Stud said:

Transferring my Stack gains to the driver is my problem as well. I made some significant gains with a current eSpeed of 111 mph. The max clubhead speed I can get when actually hitting a ball is only 102 - 103 mph. The max I get when swinging the driver without a ball is 105 mph. Any tricks that would get me closer to that theoretical speed of 111 mph when actually having a ball in front of me?

 

The short answer is swing driver as fast as you can at the end of every speed session with absolutely no regard for contact or where the ball goes, until your brain realises that it's ok to do that and frees itself up.

 

The long story is that I used to swing driver at 114 then switched to the G425 Max to hit it straighrer,even though I could only swing it 110. Over the course of about a year, my speed with the G425 dropped even further to 105/6.

 

I went for a fitting and a different driver only got my speed back up to 107/8, it's like the G425 got me used to swinging slower. Started the Stack and for a couple months was stuck on 102/3 with the 195g weight.

 

I started Fit for Golf and the 195g speed crept up to now consistently 106/7, but with no transfer to driver. I added all out driver swings to the end of Stack sessions and my driver speed almost immediately responded. Now I rarely see a driver speed below 110 and it's almost back to where it was before the Ping.

Edited April 16, 2023 by GolfTurkey

[flubberlange]

Question for you guys - I use the Swing Speed Radar by Sports Sensors. Does this device read swing speed slower than actual speed? The reason I ask is the the app says my Driver eSpeed is 99 mph. I feel like I'm going all out in my sessions and I'm 4 workouts into my second Phase (Full Speed Spectrum). I have been seeing ballooned tee shots so I recently went in for a fitting and my swing speed using the fitter's GCQuad is 108. I was fit into a Velocore X shaft and I've been hitting good drives for me  - not sure what my exact carry but I'm seeing drives in the area of 280 to 310 (obviously includes roll but I play on a course known for not much roll out). 

[Dan Drake]

PRGR arrived yesterday and I spent 15 minutes scrounging the house and emptying old cable box remotes to get 4 AAA batteries for it.  Of course, it was dark and I didn't have anywhere to really fool around with the unit, so I made some partial wedge swings in the middle of the living room.  

 

Not to worry, no chandeliers were harmed in the making of this post!

 

Stack System is due in Thursday and I'll start the program ASAP.  I've gotten a TPI assessment and have done/will be doing those exercises to start before moving from mobility to more speed & power.  I'll also be doing the Stack curriculum from both sides of the ball.  I'm VERY curious to see how my progress goes righty vs. lefty and where/how the AI in the app diverges my training.  

 

185/185 in 2023!

 

Edit: My 14yo won and I got on the PRGR to find out some starting speeds.  His PB was 86mph and I was 115 RH & 101 LH.  

Edited April 18, 2023 by Dan Drake

[Jlocke22]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:00 PM, flubberlange said:

Question for you guys - I use the Swing Speed Radar by Sports Sensors. Does this device read swing speed slower than actual speed? The reason I ask is the the app says my Driver eSpeed is 99 mph. I feel like I'm going all out in my sessions and I'm 4 workouts into my second Phase (Full Speed Spectrum). I have been seeing ballooned tee shots so I recently went in for a fitting and my swing speed using the fitter's GCQuad is 108. I was fit into a Velocore X shaft and I've been hitting good drives for me  - not sure what my exact carry but I'm seeing drives in the area of 280 to 310 (obviously includes roll but I play on a course known for not much roll out). 

I use a PRGR Black and its pretty on the money. I would guess that the one you are using is a little (or a lot) off. Congrats on the new shaft and distance gains! 

[Golf Pig]

On 4/17/2023 at 10:00 AM, flubberlange said:

Question for you guys - I use the Swing Speed Radar by Sports Sensors. Does this device read swing speed slower than actual speed?

 

My experience is that the Swing Speed Radar measures speeds 2-3 mph faster than actual. I found that the most accurate portable monitor was the PRGR. This was in comparison to my Flightscope X2.

[Tiger_Stud]

On 4/16/2023 at 11:18 PM, GolfTurkey said:

 

The short answer is swing driver as fast as you can at the end of every speed session with absolutely no regard for contact or where the ball goes, until your brain realises that it's ok to do that and frees itself up.

 

The long story is that I used to swing driver at 114 then switched to the G425 Max to hit it straighrer,even though I could only swing it 110. Over the course of about a year, my speed with the G425 dropped even further to 105/6.

 

I went for a fitting and a different driver only got my speed back up to 107/8, it's like the G425 got me used to swinging slower. Started the Stack and for a couple months was stuck on 102/3 with the 195g weight.

 

I started Fit for Golf and the 195g speed crept up to now consistently 106/7, but with no transfer to driver. I added all out driver swings to the end of Stack sessions and my driver speed almost immediately responded. Now I rarely see a driver speed below 110 and it's almost back to where it was before the Ping.

I took your advise and started swinging driver as fast as I can after my Stack session today. The fastest with a ball was 105 mph today which is a little progress since 105 was the fastest without a ball so far 👍💪. Without a ball I swung 107 today. I hope I can close the gap to the 111 mph Stack is calculating as my potential by sticking to this approach.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Tiger_Stud

[dcmidnight]

19 hours ago, Jlocke22 said:

I use a PRGR Black and its pretty on the money. I would guess that the one you are using is a little (or a lot) off. Congrats on the new shaft and distance gains! 

 

I had two different SSRs over the years and did not like either one - just found that they were too prone to wild readings and in the end I had no confidence in them. The PRGR has been great and I've used it twice with Trackman and its never been more than 1 or 2 mph off. 

[LongNwrong27]

2 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

I had two different SSRs over the years and did not like either one - just found that they were too prone to wild readings and in the end I had no confidence in them. The PRGR has been great and I've used it twice with Trackman and its never been more than 1 or 2 mph off. 

Mine never worked, thinks it’s a piece of junk. Prgr way to go 

[Jlocke22]

Well got hit with a crazy strep throat/infection combo that had me down and out a little over a week. Took it easy on the weights and did a few return to form sessions to try and keep what I could. Not ideal results but the silver lining is 2/5 swings with 195g’s hit 114…. 
 

Could tell sequencing was off and still not quite 100% but hopefully can finish this session strong. 

[MichBadger]

All - I've taken my driver CHS from about 93mph to just touching 100mph once with a dry swing at the end of my last stack session.  My stack training speed at has gone from 82-->88 in 9 sessions.  I also get to the gym about twice per week and try to do some explosive cable type exercises, bench, lunges, and core.  I'm 52 and would consider myself to be in decent shape with average strength.

 

I'm still shocked when I see other people's CH and Stack training speeds and don't feel like I have anything left in the tank to get to those speeds. I've taken lessons in the past (prior to really working to increase speed) and haven't been told I have any issues with early extension or lack of wrist hinge, etc, that might be an obvious detriment to speed.

 

I'm curious if anyone has gone to take a lesson specifically focused on CHS and had a breakthrough moment?  I'm wondering about going back or trying to find someone online that really believes in speed training.  I think my previous instructor just brushed it off and didn't think I was going to get any faster.

[bcflyguy1]

23 hours ago, MichBadger said:

All - I've taken my driver CHS from about 93mph to just touching 100mph once with a dry swing at the end of my last stack session.  My stack training speed at has gone from 82-->88 in 9 sessions.  I also get to the gym about twice per week and try to do some explosive cable type exercises, bench, lunges, and core.  I'm 52 and would consider myself to be in decent shape with average strength.

 

I'm still shocked when I see other people's CH and Stack training speeds and don't feel like I have anything left in the tank to get to those speeds. I've taken lessons in the past (prior to really working to increase speed) and haven't been told I have any issues with early extension or lack of wrist hinge, etc, that might be an obvious detriment to speed.

 

I'm curious if anyone has gone to take a lesson specifically focused on CHS and had a breakthrough moment?  I'm wondering about going back or trying to find someone online that really believes in speed training.  I think my previous instructor just brushed it off and didn't think I was going to get any faster.

Highly recommend looking up Drew Cooper on Instagram.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

19 minutes ago, bcflyguy1 said:

Highly recommend looking up Drew Cooper on Instagram.

He’s 52. Does he have an IG account?

[Jake81]

Had to train inside today due to rain

 

have a spot in the house where I can swing full and not hit anything but still feels a little cramped,  I tried to not let it effect me but number were down on all sets.

 

 

[MichBadger]

6 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

He’s 52. Does he have an IG account?

Lol....Barely.  My kids send me stupid stuff to keep me entertained.

 

I'll check out Drew Cooper.  Thanks.

[Jlocke22]

On 4/24/2023 at 11:42 AM, MichBadger said:

All - I've taken my driver CHS from about 93mph to just touching 100mph once with a dry swing at the end of my last stack session.  My stack training speed at has gone from 82-->88 in 9 sessions.  I also get to the gym about twice per week and try to do some explosive cable type exercises, bench, lunges, and core.  I'm 52 and would consider myself to be in decent shape with average strength.

 

I'm still shocked when I see other people's CH and Stack training speeds and don't feel like I have anything left in the tank to get to those speeds. I've taken lessons in the past (prior to really working to increase speed) and haven't been told I have any issues with early extension or lack of wrist hinge, etc, that might be an obvious detriment to speed.

 

I'm curious if anyone has gone to take a lesson specifically focused on CHS and had a breakthrough moment?  I'm wondering about going back or trying to find someone online that really believes in speed training.  I think my previous instructor just brushed it off and didn't think I was going to get any faster.

Congrats! That’s some impressive jumps off the start. Many continue to improve after several programs. If sequencing and swing are in pretty good shape and looking for further improvement maybe some change or increases in workout programming would help and/or look into some of the TPI testing online and try and few and see where you may be lacking on mobility side. 
 

Either way, keep kicking a** and enjoy the ride! 

[Dan Drake]

Baseline & first session done right handed.  The good news is that even being overweight, out of shape, and averaging less than 1 round every two months over the past 15 months or so, I'm starting off at 112mph, which is basically where I was 10 years ago.  So, what I've lost physically, I've made up for in technique & intent and I'm not even close to being too old to get the physical part back in reasonable shape.  The cool thing is, now I have something tangible, and with a performance (not just a scale) number attached to it that makes me want to lose weight and workout.  That change in mindset alone will be worth the Stack's pricetag, assuming I commit.  

 

185mph ball speed (divided by 1.5) needs 123mph club head speed and a perfect strike to get there.  11mph to go in 8 months. 

 

Man, I think I know which 185 is going to be easier to hit........

 

FWIW, I'll probably do the lefty baseline with my son sometime tomorrow.  Very curious to see those numbers move around!

[Jlocke22]

@Dan Drake looking forward to seeing the results! Should be done with first program in two more sessions with some solid gains. Will post at end and excited for what it recommends next. 

[Max21]

Im nearing the end of the foundation program with about 3/4 sessions left. This is my first stack program in a few months after a few injuries and i started to really lift and workout halfway through the foundation program. I feel faster than when i started but my numbers say otherwise and have been pretty stagnant but feel like thats expected after a while off. Hoping for a breakthrough soon and probably going to do foundations again

[Jlocke22]

So I have been down ever since coming back from sickness and was a bit sore today from the gym yesterday but figured what the hell! 
 

Now it could also be the warmup as I have been trying to work on some “golf based exercises” more to produce faster/higher ground force reaction. 
 

So for people with a home gym or some spare stuff laying around might be worth a try or maybe it’s just me getting healthier from sickness… or maybe both. 
 

- Box/Bench Step Ups with twist at top 2x5 
- Pogo Jumps 2x30 seconds

- Dumbbell Vertical Jump 1x5 with 10 lbs each hand. 
- Isometric Band holds at top of backswing for 20 seconds, half swing 20 seconds, impact position x20 seconds. 
- High Pin Squats - loaded 115 + band tension in position similar to “Rory golf squat” in downswing or a 1/4 squat and started in that position and blasted up as hard as possible and drop back down. 2x5 

 

Took 10-15 minutes and set some PRs and swung the fastest driver I ever have without a ball and would have tied 195g highest without one bad swing that brought the average down. 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Jlocke22

[GolfTurkey]

The final swing with 195g choke is real !!

 

I feel more pressure when speed training on my own and needing a decent final swing for a PR than when teeing off on 18 needing a par for a good score or whatever, it's so stupid!

[Chief Penguin]

2 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

The final swing with 195g choke is real !!

 

I feel more pressure when speed training on my own and needing a decent final swing for a PR than when teeing off on 18 needing a par for a good score or whatever, it's so stupid!

I’m afraid I keep swinging (within reason) until I have 5 swings I’m happy with. I heard Sasho say in an interview the fact of the fast swings happening is the most important thing.

[GolfTurkey]

4 hours ago, Chief Penguin said:

I’m afraid I keep swinging (within reason) until I have 5 swings I’m happy with. I heard Sasho say in an interview the fact of the fast swings happening is the most important thing.

 

Interesting, I knew about the warm-up swings where you swing until you are quite close to your previous max but I hadn't heard that one before.

 

I could have done with the mulligan yesterday. In my final set with the 195, I went 106-107-109-110-104...puke!

[MichBadger]

I played yesterday with a guy that's typically 20 yards longer than me (and likes to talk about it). He was a bit surprised when I was even with him on a couple of holes and I was 20 yards past him on another.  I shot a 39 on the back (with two missed 15 foot birdie putts on 17 and 18).  This was my first time in the 30's since college (30 years ago.)  The goal is to play multiple rounds in the 70's this year.

 

The Stack work and lessons last year are paying off.  Maybe a good indicator as well, is that my glutes are sore today, which I don't remember in the past.  I'm actually using that lower body.

[Jlocke22]

Next Up: Neural Drive. 
 

Full Speed Spectrum was what it recommended off the start and not Foundation. Made sure to keep “full” swings in full balance on progress check. Good to see the jumps. Looking forward to the new program and continuing into the golf season and blending with gym/swing work.