The Stack System

[Augster]

I haven’t chimed in, but I’ve been following along. Got my Stack system for me and my son in mid-October. Just finished my pre and post with all 18 workouts. 6 weeks. 3 times per week. 
 

While I haven’t seen it on the course, the in-app gains are ENORMOUS. I imagine it’ll be tough going for the next session, you can’t always gain, but I’ve added WAY more in-app speed than I thought I would. With as broken down as my body is, bad knees, my right hip is killing me and I’m doing rehab for it that isn’t going so well, really inflexible with way too tight hamstrings, I toughed it out and was shocked at my improvement. 
 

PM me for a $50 off link. 
 

Anyway, results. 

 

 

I gained 21mph on my driver. I couldn’t believe it. 6 weeks ago I was swinging it at 87. It was the best I could do. Now it’s 108? And those are the “average”. The set numbers. Crazy. I thought I might go to like 94 or 95mph. 
 

I’m not delusional. I’m going to guess I won’t see many gains from here on out. I certainly need to try to hit the ball for a while. I don’t see ANY of those speed gains on the course right now because my contact is so bad. 

I’ll keep at it though. As long as my body holds up. The AI says my next session is “Full Speed Spectrum”. It says it’s 24 sessions. Yikes. I won’t be done with that until the end of January. 
 

TLDR: Sasho knows what he’s talking about. Buy the system. 

[Cameaux]

 

Feeling the need to jump into this topic due to the poor results from my current iteration of Full Speed Spectrum below. As you can see, 7 mph drop in training speed through 18 of 24 sessions, with a correlative drop in eSpeed. Grit score on current program is 90%. 

I’ve read through much of this thread, but does anyone have a similar experience and/or recommendations to turn it around?

 

This is my 5th program, and I’m down to speeds much lower than where I finished off from the Foundations program. 

I have always felt that the step swings get me out of sorts once they start to pop up in FSS.  My step speed percentiles are typically 10-20% lower than my max swing percentiles. But that can’t be the only explanation for what seems to be a very significant drop, right? 
 

Apologies on the novel, but I’m at a loss for how to turn it around and get the old speed back (much less continue to improve). Any suggestions or anecdotes on others having overcome a similar run of results would be greatly appreciated. 

[leegee38]

Cameaux I have the same reaction as you to the step swings.  I can never seem to step the proper distance and my speed falls off substantially.  It is only for the step swings, though.  The only help I can offer for the over all drop is something I heard ... which is Sasho on a pod cast suggesting that lack of progress or regression might mean you need more rest.  Like taking 2 days between sessions instead of going every other day was my thought.  It often works for weight lifting, so maybe?  Best of luck with it!

[Cameaux]

Appreciate the reply. That was actually my thought too, so I backed off of my gym routine a little over the last two weeks. Sleep is great so I’m seemingly getting enough recovery. 
 

I’ve read something from Sasho in the past where I believe he said your step swings should be faster than your max swings, and if they’re not, it’s an indicator of poor sequencing. Maybe just need to get in front of a pro and/or on some force plates to understand why step swings give me so much trouble. 
 

On the one hand, I felt like Neural Drive gave me the best results as of late. On the other, the algorithm seems to always suggest Full Speed Spectrum and maybe it knows I need to address the underlying sequencing problems that make my step swings so slow (relative to where they should be). Tough call on whether to keep plugging away at FSS despite the current suboptimal results and hopefully at some point break through on the sequencing problem or just hop back to Neural Drive where I’ve seen recent tangible improvement.   

[Jlocke22]

@Cameaux - I have the same love/hate with step swings. Sucked at first and for whatever reason had a few sessions where they clicked. (I ran FSS on first program) I ran Neural Drive second, and back to running Full Speed for program three and right away was sloppy again when they popped up. 
 

Not sure if you have seen anything on Youtube/Social Media on Dr Kwon but have almost been implementing that “throw club forward, step back, step forward, and swing” sequencing patterns during warm up and it seems to help not only on Stack but outdoor play as well. 

 

I think it’s just one of those things where your body will eventually figure it out and sequencing will improve. 

[Cameaux]

@Jlocke22  Appreciate the perspective.  I've decided to finish out the current FSS (5 more workouts I believe) even though speed is still trending down.  103 mph again on last set.  The tough decision will come if/when the app suggests that I run FSS again.

 

I just starting following Dr. Kwon directly on instagram, though I've read much about him on here.  I'll have to dig deeper on the sequencing piece you referenced.

 

In past FSS programs, I do feel like I sort of "figured out" the step swings, as you mentioned.  For whatever reason, it just hasn't clicked this go round.  I tried backing off from the weight room in an effort to rest more as a means to increase speed.  Strangely, I feel like that almost backfired, as now, my full out max at 195 is slower than speeds I used to cruise at 2 months ago.  So I'm back pushing the gym harder but focusing more on speed/power there vs. strength/hypertrophy.  We'll see if that has any effect.

[mstuewe]

On 11/30/2023 at 9:35 PM, Cameaux said:

 

Feeling the need to jump into this topic due to the poor results from my current iteration of Full Speed Spectrum below. As you can see, 7 mph drop in training speed through 18 of 24 sessions, with a correlative drop in eSpeed. Grit score on current program is 90%. 

I’ve read through much of this thread, but does anyone have a similar experience and/or recommendations to turn it around?

 

This is my 5th program, and I’m down to speeds much lower than where I finished off from the Foundations program. 

I have always felt that the step swings get me out of sorts once they start to pop up in FSS.  My step speed percentiles are typically 10-20% lower than my max swing percentiles. But that can’t be the only explanation for what seems to be a very significant drop, right? 
 

Apologies on the novel, but I’m at a loss for how to turn it around and get the old speed back (much less continue to improve). Any suggestions or anecdotes on others having overcome a similar run of results would be greatly appreciated. 

 

You should send a tweet to Sasho.  He loves answering these type of questions.

[Jlocke22]

9 hours ago, Cameaux said:

@Jlocke22  Appreciate the perspective.  I've decided to finish out the current FSS (5 more workouts I believe) even though speed is still trending down.  103 mph again on last set.  The tough decision will come if/when the app suggests that I run FSS again.

 

I just starting following Dr. Kwon directly on instagram, though I've read much about him on here.  I'll have to dig deeper on the sequencing piece you referenced.

 

In past FSS programs, I do feel like I sort of "figured out" the step swings, as you mentioned.  For whatever reason, it just hasn't clicked this go round.  I tried backing off from the weight room in an effort to rest more as a means to increase speed.  Strangely, I feel like that almost backfired, as now, my full out max at 195 is slower than speeds I used to cruise at 2 months ago.  So I'm back pushing the gym harder but focusing more on speed/power there vs. strength/hypertrophy.  We'll see if that has any effect.

Man I am right there with you on the speed and gym. It has been a steady game of trying to make both work while not frying myself. I decided with the offseason upon us, that I was just going to work on crushing the gym again and improving total strength, power, and grip strength. After these last 5 sessions in the current program I may switch to the shorter duration/session “flex program” or run a stack session every 3-4 days as sometimes I just feel absolutely burnt out and not recovering enough. I know I need to still keep swinging though!

[Retsof2021]

Can anyone who ordered recently give any insights into shipping times? I ordered Friday and have not received any emails from Stack. All I have is a PayPal email confirming payment. 

[Binson]

On 11/28/2023 at 12:22 AM, Augster said:

I haven’t chimed in, but I’ve been following along. Got my Stack system for me and my son in mid-October. Just finished my pre and post with all 18 workouts. 6 weeks. 3 times per week. 
 

While I haven’t seen it on the course, the in-app gains are ENORMOUS. I imagine it’ll be tough going for the next session, you can’t always gain, but I’ve added WAY more in-app speed than I thought I would. With as broken down as my body is, bad knees, my right hip is killing me and I’m doing rehab for it that isn’t going so well, really inflexible with way too tight hamstrings, I toughed it out and was shocked at my improvement. 
 

PM me for a $50 off link. 
 

Anyway, results. 

 

 

I gained 21mph on my driver. I couldn’t believe it. 6 weeks ago I was swinging it at 87. It was the best I could do. Now it’s 108? And those are the “average”. The set numbers. Crazy. I thought I might go to like 94 or 95mph. 
 

I’m not delusional. I’m going to guess I won’t see many gains from here on out. I certainly need to try to hit the ball for a while. I don’t see ANY of those speed gains on the course right now because my contact is so bad. 

I’ll keep at it though. As long as my body holds up. The AI says my next session is “Full Speed Spectrum”. It says it’s 24 sessions. Yikes. I won’t be done with that until the end of January. 
 

TLDR: Sasho knows what he’s talking about. Buy the system. 

That's wild. Do you think it's through improving your mechanics? Or primarily you've kept your same mechanics but increased speed?

[Augster]

5 hours ago, Binson said:

That's wild. Do you think it's through improving your mechanics? Or primarily you've kept your same mechanics but increased speed?

I’ve had to do what I’ve had to do to add speed. I think that’s what this system does. 
 

I looked at the Bermeister videos that are included for long driving/speed. I certainly needed a longer backswing. It was the only way I could get speed. In order to do that, I had to soften my wrists etc. etc. It’s new mechanics built for speed. 
 

With all the MAX swings they have me do, ideally, there’s mostly one way to generate MAX speed. Anything else, it isn’t MAX. Max is max. 
 

The system does have you do a LOT of Full Intent swings for a while before they have you start doing max swings. I’m sure to build up muscle and so you won’t hurt yourself. 
 

I THINK the entire point of all this is to generate speed, speed, speed, THEN your “normal swing”, when you back it off, will be faster. A rising tide and all that. He does say you should never use your MAX swing on a golf course. Contact will be way too inconsistent because the focus is speed. But the MAX swings “should” raise the average speed of the Full Intent swings. 

[dcmidnight]

14 hours ago, Augster said:

I’ve had to do what I’ve had to do to add speed. I think that’s what this system does. 
 

I looked at the Bermeister videos that are included for long driving/speed. I certainly needed a longer backswing. It was the only way I could get speed. In order to do that, I had to soften my wrists etc. etc. It’s new mechanics built for speed. 
 

With all the MAX swings they have me do, ideally, there’s mostly one way to generate MAX speed. Anything else, it isn’t MAX. Max is max. 
 

The system does have you do a LOT of Full Intent swings for a while before they have you start doing max swings. I’m sure to build up muscle and so you won’t hurt yourself. 
 

I THINK the entire point of all this is to generate speed, speed, speed, THEN your “normal swing”, when you back it off, will be faster. A rising tide and all that. He does say you should never use your MAX swing on a golf course. Contact will be way too inconsistent because the focus is speed. But the MAX swings “should” raise the average speed of the Full Intent swings. 

 

I agree with a lot of this, for me generating more speed really meant focusing on lengthening the hand path.

 

I think one thing the system does is keeps raising your ceiling of max swings so that - in theory - it raises your "on course" swing as well. My on course speed only went up from 105 to 108 and I even back it off from there. But at the very end of March when I had been doing this for about six months, my max "I dont care" swing in the simulator was 116.

 

My goal this offseason is to keep raising that "on course" ceiling to where I'm comfortable in the 108-110 range. 

 

Honestly though, and I think I said this last year, if nothing else I think this system is worth it because it keeps me swinging in the offseason and keeps me doing very golf specific stuff. Take the speed out of it and I think that would still make it worth the cost.

[CMCSGolf]

On 11/14/2023 at 12:06 PM, CMCSGolf said:

 

Adding on to my initial assessment from earlier this year.  

 

The Stack recommended Neural Drive again for me and I completed another course with ~1 mph increase in speed.  However, I believe the stack makes me a worse golfer.  I've found that when I try to max out my swing I tend to stand up out of my posture really early as I push from my feet.  I leave my arms way behind.  This causes me to lose my spine angle thrust my hips at the ball.  After a Stack session, it's not uncommon for me to hit shanks at the range the next day.

 

I find that when I try to max out the a stack swing while staying in posture, I lose 2-4 mph off my best.  I feel like that kind of defeats the purpose of the Stack? Overall, I'm not really sure what to do.  The Stack hurts my scores in the short to medium term and I don't appear to really gain any speed so this may be a failure from me.  I plan to shoot an email over to them and ask if they have any ideas, but this might be beyond their wheelhouse.

 

Continuing to add to my Stack journey.

 

I had a conversation with Sasho and sent him video of a few swings.  Overall, his comments can be summarized as not being overly concerned with "bad mechanics" during a stack session if speed is up.  I didn't really get concrete recommendations on what I can do to pick up speed.  However, 11/10 on customer service and taking the time.  He 100% believes in his product.

 

Sasho also made a comment on my max swings not really looking like max effort.  I think he's right and I really struggle with this.  My normal speed on a trackman is 109 and my absolute max is 111.  I see similarly subtle changes on the stack also.

 

So my question to the group - How can I swing harder?  When I absolutely try to go max, I often swing slower and my feet start to move around a ton.  I fall off balance (which I know is fine), but I don't seem to generate any additional speed.  I would love to hear tips on how to actually max yourself out.

[dcmidnight]

6 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

So my question to the group - How can I swing harder?  When I absolutely try to go max, I often swing slower and my feet start to move around a ton.  I fall off balance (which I know is fine), but I don't seem to generate any additional speed.  I would love to hear tips on how to actually max yourself out.

 

Again - I'm not an expert so take this all FWIW.

 

But for me swinging harder and swinging faster are opposites. The harder I actually tried, the worse I got. For me it was about working on a legitimate weight shift, better shoulder turn and a longer hand path.

 

Listen I think part of using the Stack is that you can experiment with what works for you and get instant feedback on radar. If you try something that bumps you up a bit - keep pushing.

 

I also now spend 10-15 minutes stretching before I start, doing some light dumbell work and making sure my shoulders are good and stretched out.

[Augster]

1 hour ago, CMCSGolf said:

 

Continuing to add to my Stack journey.

 

I had a conversation with Sasho and sent him video of a few swings.  Overall, his comments can be summarized as not being overly concerned with "bad mechanics" during a stack session if speed is up.  I didn't really get concrete recommendations on what I can do to pick up speed.  However, 11/10 on customer service and taking the time.  He 100% believes in his product.

 

Sasho also made a comment on my max swings not really looking like max effort.  I think he's right and I really struggle with this.  My normal speed on a trackman is 109 and my absolute max is 111.  I see similarly subtle changes on the stack also.

 

So my question to the group - How can I swing harder?  When I absolutely try to go max, I often swing slower and my feet start to move around a ton.  I fall off balance (which I know is fine), but I don't seem to generate any additional speed.  I would love to hear tips on how to actually max yourself out.

Awesome. 
 

I run into this a LOT during a session. I’ll get a number that’s 3-4 mph slower than I expected. And I’ll ask myself, “Was that really a MAX swing?” Of course it wasn’t. 
 

Mostly, during the countdown, a lot of time I have to repeat to myself, “Max max max”. This helps me focus on taking the club back just a little bit further and trying to swing “as fast as I can” vs. “swinging fast”. 

[CMCSGolf]

Agree that harder does not always equal faster.   @Augster, I think your last point is very true.  You have to be mentally focused to swing max.  This has helped me some, but my absolute max is still only 3-4 mph faster than my normal control.  I'll continue to experiment.

[UNC41]

I just picked up the stack during the Cyber Monday sale, looking forward to training with it over the offseason. Out of the gate, did anyone else have issues with the PRGR reading significantly slower on swings without a ball? It picks up my driver swing of 113 - 117 on the range/course, but when I "dry" swing I can barely crack 100 even going at it full tilt. The team at Stack said this is common and more to due to psychology than a misread on the radar. 

 

Wondering if anyone had a similar experience and how it impacted the training? The end goal is to get faster on the course, so I'm wondering if it's better to focus on speed training while hitting given the stack/dry baseline is so different from my real golf swing. 

[Augster]

1 hour ago, UNC41 said:

I just picked up the stack during the Cyber Monday sale, looking forward to training with it over the offseason. Out of the gate, did anyone else have issues with the PRGR reading significantly slower on swings without a ball? It picks up my driver swing of 113 - 117 on the range/course, but when I "dry" swing I can barely crack 100 even going at it full tilt. The team at Stack said this is common and more to due to psychology than a misread on the radar. 

 

Wondering if anyone had a similar experience and how it impacted the training? The end goal is to get faster on the course, so I'm wondering if it's better to focus on speed training while hitting given the stack/dry baseline is so different from my real golf swing. 

I don’t think it’s PRGR specific and I think the folks at Stack are correct. 
 

When I swing, with a ball, before Stack training, on my friends Flightscope, I’ve been like 92-97mph hitting balls. 
 

My “max” with my driver and my Atlas when I made my baseline swings was 87 for the set. 
 

A lot of players can “go at the ball”. And they can’t just “swing fast” without a ball there. This is where the Stack system will break through those mental barriers as we SHOULD all be swinging fast whether there is a ball there or not. 
 

I actually put a ball down just outside the line, so I don’t accidentally hit it with the Stack. Just so I know that that’s the point I want to accelerate through. 
 

And, most importantly I think, it’s all relative numbers. If you swing 111 while hitting balls, but only 100 when swinging, when you use the Stack and that 100 becomes 110, I can virtually guarantee the former 111 while hitting balls will go up also. 
 

The Stack is designed to break through physical, as well as mental, barriers. 

[CMCSGolf]

I've found the same thing.  Swinging with my driver and no ball, I've never gotten within 5 mph of what my swing speed is on trackman.  However, I've also not been able to really max out very well on my stack tranings after completing 3 courses.  The mental issue @Augstermetnions is real and I've not figured out how to get around it in 12 months.

 

I have a good friend who has legitimate 200mph ball speed on track man.  He has played around with the stack, but he says all of his gains (180 to 200) came from just hitting a ball as hard as he could on a simulator and trying to break personal records.  No stack or rypstick.  So there may be something to be said for training with a ball, but all people are different.  

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, CMCSGolf said:

I've found the same thing.  Swinging with my driver and no ball, I've never gotten within 5 mph of what my swing speed is on trackman.  However, I've also not been able to really max out very well on my stack tranings after completing 3 courses.  The mental issue @Augstermetnions is real and I've not figured out how to get around it in 12 months.

 

I have a good friend who has legitimate 200mph ball speed on track man.  He has played around with the stack, but he says all of his gains (180 to 200) came from just hitting a ball as hard as he could on a simulator and trying to break personal records.  No stack or rypstick.  So there may be something to be said for training with a ball, but all people are different.  

It is amazing to me that anyone would swing faster when the ball is there as opposed to just making air swings.  My speed has always been faster when I am not worrying about hitting a ball.  I can hit as much as 110 mph doing max air swings on Mevo+ and can barely get 105 mph with the ball there.  I have always thought that my experience was the norm.  Just goes to show ya I guess!

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

It is amazing to me that anyone would swing faster when the ball is there as opposed to just making air swings.  My speed has always been faster when I am not worrying about hitting a ball.  I can hit as much as 110 mph doing max air swings on Mevo+ and can barely get 105 mph with the ball there.  I have always thought that my experience was the norm.  Just goes to show ya I guess!

 

People will swing harder with a golf ball than an AlmostGolf ball somewhat often. The golf ball knocks a LOT of speed out of the system. If people are unsure of whether they can brake/control the club on the follow-through, they'll swing a bit slower.

[GolfTurkey]

I'm hoping I haven't lost too much by the time I start stacking again.

 

It's a little over 3 months since my knee surgery and I've started playing golf again but I won't do speed training until my knee is pain free.

[Sandhurst241069]

Anyone sold/transferred their Stack System? If so what is the process to do this? Cheers

[Sandhurst241069]

Anyone sold/transferred their Stack System? If so what is the process to do this? Cheers

[leezer99]

On 12/6/2023 at 7:00 AM, Retsof2021 said:

Can anyone who ordered recently give any insights into shipping times? I ordered Friday and have not received any emails from Stack. All I have is a PayPal email confirming payment. 

Ordered on Sunday and it's delivering today. 

[Retsof2021]

28 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

On 12/6/2023 at 10:00 AM, Retsof2021 said:

 

Ordered on Sunday and it's delivering today. 

Nice. I ordered 12/1 and it’s being delivered next Thursday lol. 

[Cameaux]

18 hours ago, Nels55 said:

It is amazing to me that anyone would swing faster when the ball is there as opposed to just making air swings.  My speed has always been faster when I am not worrying about hitting a ball.  I can hit as much as 110 mph doing max air swings on Mevo+ and can barely get 105 mph with the ball there.  I have always thought that my experience was the norm.  Just goes to show ya I guess!

 

I'm the same way.  Even though my Stack training speeds are down currently, I did a 24 swing session with driver/no ball the other day and averaged 115 mph.  Fastest I've ever gotten hitting a ball on Trackman is 108/109.  There may be some differences there between my home radar and the Trackman, but that's still a pretty significant variation.  Similarly, I've never seen my swing speeds with a ball be close to my eSpeed on Stack.  eSpeed has always been higher than I ever seem to get to when hitting a ball.

[CMCSGolf]

2 minutes ago, Cameaux said:

 

I'm the same way.  Even though my Stack training speeds are down currently, I did a 24 swing session with driver/no ball the other day and averaged 115 mph.  Fastest I've ever gotten hitting a ball on Trackman is 108/109.  There may be some differences there between my home radar and the Trackman, but that's still a pretty significant variation.  Similarly, I've never seen my swing speeds with a ball be close to my eSpeed on Stack.  eSpeed has always been higher than I ever seem to get to when hitting a ball.

This is interesting! Can you and @Nels55 teach me???  I have tried little things like swinging at a tee or putting a ball just outside my line, but nothing has worked much.  I can't get the stack or a driver swing without a ball close to my trackman numbers.

[Nels55]

21 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

This is interesting! Can you and @Nels55 teach me???  I have tried little things like swinging at a tee or putting a ball just outside my line, but nothing has worked much.  I can't get the stack or a driver swing without a ball close to my trackman numbers.

I really have no idea as I cannot wrap my mind around the fact that you swing faster with a ball in the way.  When there is no ball I simply swing with abandon and don't care where the clubhead goes.  More freedom of movement I guess.  I don't know!

[Cameaux]

I don't know, I'd almost rather be in your shoes @CMCSGolf  haha.  From my perspective, I feel like attempting to make contact when a ball is present (even when I'm trying to go all out on the range with no care where it ends up) adds some kind of subconscious governor on my speed, which is why my swings with a ball stay minimum ~5 mph slower than my driver swings with no ball.  My intuition would say that if you just kept with the Stack protocols, the block you have on your "no ball" swings would dissipate, and you'd then see a significant bump in your training speeds.