The Stack System

[Brooks_Cupcake]

Thinking I found a good cadence with triphasic mixed with Stack.

Day 1 - Golf/Stack

Day 2 - Gym

Day 3 - Rest

Day 4 - Golf/Stack

and so on…

[Retsof2021]

This was posted in another thread but I really like a few tips from this video. First, stay as loose as possible. I’ve noticed that during speed training I’m very tight and tense. Second, take your time at the top. This is helping me get a full turn and start to go down towards my lead foot. Had some good results tonight with those thoughts.  Hit some 10-15 drivers after the session and hit 2-3 122mph and hit 176 ball speed which is a PR.  Let me know what you think of thoughts from Bryson!
 

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Retsof2021

[Jlocke22]

@Retsof2021 - Nice work! That’s super interesting because my top two sessions so far this program has been feeling that “patience” at the top and my issue at times  is getting weight to far right and not getting to left like RS was doing. 
 

the amount of volume Bryson was suggesting was interesting. I have tried to add some lighter weights after sessions to get some more volume but no where near 100 balls haha. Might have to give it rip some time to try and push the barrier a bit. 

[Jlocke22]

Anyone try or mess with the Borgmeier program recently? 
 

I am on session 23/24 of my third program. Increased heavy lifting with the off season. Thought of maybe doing that next to mix it up a bit and keep it fun. 

[jas0nmacisaac]

My light weight swings are crazy fast compared to my 195+ swings, which makes sense because I am whippy as can be with light weights. Today with 80g I hit 134.

 

Did a speed test today and their E Speed is pretty much spot in. My fastest 195 has been 117 and my fastest with the driver is 125.

[jas0nmacisaac]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:23 PM, CMCSGolf said:

I would hope you're right.  However, I'm 1 year in without a difference.  I'll probably do one more course and hope for the best.

 

My best guess on the explanation for my situation - The prospect of hitting a ball increases my intent so my muscles work harder/faster when there is a know objective that I've been training myself on for 30 years.  I've made 1000x as many swings with the ball as without trying to go fast, so I assume it's just a mental block that haven't overcome yet.

Try standing up a headcover to smash while doing the program.

[MichBadger]

I've gone from 91 to 99 mph clubhead speed in just under a year with the Stack.  I admittedly didn't do much with it over the summer because I was playing a lot of golf.  I've just started back in to it about a month ago and hitting the gym a lot more also.  

 

It's still frustrating for me because my percentiles are mostly less than 50% to my age according to the Stack app..  I don't understand how I am that slow compared to others, as I'm in decent shape with good flexibility.  I took a lesson last week with a guy that uses force plates that opened my eyes to some stuff, but I was hoping to make a noticeable jump, which didn't happen.  I'm really not sure what I need to do to make the next step.  

[dcmidnight]

20 hours ago, jas0nmacisaac said:

My light weight swings are crazy fast compared to my 195+ swings, which makes sense because I am whippy as can be with light weights. Today with 80g I hit 134.

 

Did a speed test today and their E Speed is pretty much spot in. My fastest 195 has been 117 and my fastest with the driver is 125.

 

Yeah my driver espeed has been 114 over the last few sessions and I hit 112.8 on Trackman so IMO those numbers are pretty close.

[Rasser75]

Hi All, fellow stack users..

 

Been using this system since august. I see a massive gap between my espeed (108) and my CHS with driver and ball. It currently sit in the low 90s…

 

What gaps are people seeing between their espeed and actual CHS with driver and ball?

 

Got in contact with Sasho who reccomended to replace every 4th session to a special with driver and ball. As I’m trainin twice a week, this would only result in 2 session a month with driver and ball, which seems skinny….

 

Have anyone else seen such large gap and what have they done to close the gap between stack speed and CHs with driver and ball?

 

I’m a little frustrated as I feel that I’m very skilled swinging the stack fast, but a very slow player with driver and ball….

[tomba51]

1 hour ago, Rasser75 said:

 

Have anyone else seen such large gap and what have they done to close the gap between stack speed and CHs with driver and ball?

 

I’m a little frustrated as I feel that I’m very skilled swinging the stack fast, but a very slow player with driver and ball….

Watch this video in which Bryson DeChambeau gives a speed lesson to Rick Shiels. Sometimes you just have to get after it!

 

[tomba51]

Here's another video, this time from Andrew Rice, which emphasizes getting after the ball.  He's not as intense as DeChambeau, but he does suggest getting out of your comfort zone and going all out.

 

[Seamus_McDuff]

2 hours ago, Rasser75 said:

Hi All, fellow stack users..

 

Been using this system since august. I see a massive gap between my espeed (108) and my CHS with driver and ball. It currently sit in the low 90s…

 

What gaps are people seeing between their espeed and actual CHS with driver and ball?

 

Got in contact with Sasho who reccomended to replace every 4th session to a special with driver and ball. As I’m trainin twice a week, this would only result in 2 session a month with driver and ball, which seems skinny….

 

Have anyone else seen such large gap and what have they done to close the gap between stack speed and CHs with driver and ball?

 

I’m a little frustrated as I feel that I’m very skilled swinging the stack fast, but a very slow player with driver and ball….

 

Did he suggest increased training? I’d try to shoot for at least three each week..

 

What’s your driver CHS with no ball?

 

My espeed is also 108 but my driver CHS with ball is 106 and without ball it’s 109. 
 

Maybe do some driver swings after each stack session. 5-10 swings no ball and then 10-20 with ball and see how everything compares. 

[Jlocke22]

On 12/26/2023 at 11:22 AM, MichBadger said:

I've gone from 91 to 99 mph clubhead speed in just under a year with the Stack.  I admittedly didn't do much with it over the summer because I was playing a lot of golf.  I've just started back in to it about a month ago and hitting the gym a lot more also.  

 

It's still frustrating for me because my percentiles are mostly less than 50% to my age according to the Stack app..  I don't understand how I am that slow compared to others, as I'm in decent shape with good flexibility.  I took a lesson last week with a guy that uses force plates that opened my eyes to some stuff, but I was hoping to make a noticeable jump, which didn't happen.  I'm really not sure what I need to do to make the next step.  

@MichBadger Hard to say without exactly knowing all details but based on SS and percentiles I would guess you are in that 35-45 year old range or close to it.
 

I think many for just a basic number to hit in lifting recommend 1.5 x BW Squat and Deadlift and 1.25 x Bench. If in that 25-40 range many try and push closer to 2 x BW Squat/DL and 1.5 x BW Bench. RDL’s are a solid glute/hamstring builder also. 
 

If off a bit on those I may start there. For some explosive stuff you could work in some weighted jumps (w/dumbells or Trapbar) or some jumping speed skaters, box jumps, depth jumps, etc. to help with impulse adaptations. 

 

Med Ball throws and variations are great 

 

May also want to explore adding in some sprinting and “max swings” with throwing the club forward first to start and then back into the swing to increase speed and possible kinematics/sequencing a bit. 
 

Just trying to think of some ways to push your body a bit into adapting. 

[Rasser75]

36 minutes ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

 

Did he suggest increased training? I’d try to shoot for at least three each week..

 

What’s your driver CHS with no ball?

 

My espeed is also 108 but my driver CHS with ball is 106 and without ball it’s 109. 
 

Maybe do some driver swings after each stack session. 5-10 swings no ball and then 10-20 with ball and see how everything compares. 

Air swing with driver also sits around 108.

 

He did not recommend to increase training.

 

using a PRGR btw.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Rasser75

[Jlocke22]

2 hours ago, Rasser75 said:

Hi All, fellow stack users..

 

Been using this system since august. I see a massive gap between my espeed (108) and my CHS with driver and ball. It currently sit in the low 90s…

 

What gaps are people seeing between their espeed and actual CHS with driver and ball?

 

Got in contact with Sasho who reccomended to replace every 4th session to a special with driver and ball. As I’m trainin twice a week, this would only result in 2 session a month with driver and ball, which seems skinny….

 

Have anyone else seen such large gap and what have they done to close the gap between stack speed and CHs with driver and ball?

 

I’m a little frustrated as I feel that I’m very skilled swinging the stack fast, but a very slow player with driver and ball….

@Rasser75 The special on ball sessions are nice. I have started mixing those in at similar intervals. 
 

Had a buddy with similar problem or “mental block with ball” and he bought some cheap foam balls and pounded on those for a few sessions at higher than average “on ball speed” and that got him over the hump. I have seen others also just hit head covers. 
 

I would start with that or just pounding some golf balls with radar until you force yourself to get past that barrier.

[jas0nmacisaac]

I've run into a lul at 195, I keep finding ways to increase speed with the lighter weights, it just doesn't translate with the 195+ weights. Anyone have any tips that worked with heavier weights or what it might signal?

[Augster]

30 minutes ago, jas0nmacisaac said:

I've run into a lul at 195, I keep finding ways to increase speed with the lighter weights, it just doesn't translate with the 195+ weights. Anyone have any tips that worked with heavier weights or what it might signal?

I wouldn’t worry about 1 specific weight. I know we tend to only focus on the 195, which is what gives us Espeed, but all the weights matter. 
 

I’d let the app figure it out for you. Just keep going. 
 

As long as the speeds are on a continuous arc from low weights to high weights, and you’re still making gains SOMEWHERE, you’re gaining everywhere. 
 

 

There’s a nice arc from top to bottom. Each bump down in weight creates faster speeds. And vice versa. So if I can improve, say, 100g to 114 for example, then my 95, 80, and 65 should all, also, get faster. 
 

As long as you’re gaining somewhere, you’re getting faster. 
 

Here is a bad example, because of the limited data and swinging “full intent” not max. 
 

 

There shouldn’t be those valleys. From the data, if he can swing 205 at 112, there’s no reason besides mental that he couldn’t swing 195 at 112 also. Same thing at 145. He swung 160 6mph faster so his 145 should be faster yet the next time it’s tested. 
 

A lot of the valleys on that second pic are due to limited data. He may only have done some of those weights once, and at the beginning of the program. 
 

I will say this, trust that the algorithm knows what it’s doing. When I did foundations I did a LOT of swinging 280, 300 etc. My son, who had a much faster speed than I do, he hasn’t swung a weight higher than 240 yet. And that was ONE set in his first session. His foundation experience and weights is completely different than mine was. 
 

 

[jas0nmacisaac]

1 hour ago, Augster said:

I wouldn’t worry about 1 specific weight. I know we tend to only focus on the 195, which is what gives us Espeed, but all the weights matter. 
 

I’d let the app figure it out for you. Just keep going. 
 

As long as the speeds are on a continuous arc from low weights to high weights, and you’re still making gains SOMEWHERE, you’re gaining everywhere. 
 

 

There’s a nice arc from top to bottom. Each bump down in weight creates faster speeds. And vice versa. So if I can improve, say, 100g to 114 for example, then my 95, 80, and 65 should all, also, get faster. 
 

As long as you’re gaining somewhere, you’re getting faster. 
 

Here is a bad example, because of the limited data and swinging “full intent” not max. 
 

 

There shouldn’t be those valleys. From the data, if he can swing 205 at 112, there’s no reason besides mental that he couldn’t swing 195 at 112 also. Same thing at 145. He swung 160 6mph faster so his 145 should be faster yet the next time it’s tested. 
 

A lot of the valleys on that second pic are due to limited data. He may only have done some of those weights once, and at the beginning of the program. 
 

I will say this, trust that the algorithm knows what it’s doing. When I did foundations I did a LOT of swinging 280, 300 etc. My son, who had a much faster speed than I do, he hasn’t swung a weight higher than 240 yet. And that was ONE set in his first session. His foundation experience and weights is completely different than mine was. 
 

 

I'm not displeased with my results. I am at least 98 percentile for every weight I have swung, just 100 percentile in almost all the lighter weights. I'm just trying to understand the why in everything I do. Why can I get 100 percentile with lighter weights but not the heavy ones. If I know why then I can work to improve my weaker areas.

[Rasser75]

Hi all,

 

can someone help me solve this puzzle. Trying to get a correlation between CHS with driver and ball and stack 195.

 

imagine three golfers, A, B and C. All similar size, average build etc. All been through minimum one stack programme and reached first plateu.

 

What is the estimae for the three golfers on 195g speed and driver air swing speed.

 

Player A (110 MPH CHS ball and driver)

Estimated 195g stack speed?

Estimated driver air swing speed?

 

Player B (105 MPH CHS ball and driver)

Estimated 195g stack speed?

Estimated driver air swing speed?

 

Player C (100 MPH CHS ball and driver)

Estimated 195g stack speed?

Estimated driver air swing speed?

[Jlocke22]

@Rasser75 I’ll bite haha. Definitely some variables at play such as driver length, the actual person themselves, if comfortable or also training on ball max swings, and definition for if “full” or “max” intent numbers on your CHS on ball and air swings. 
 

I am sure with some others you can get a pretty good range or guesstimate but the on ball sessions are a skill themselves. From adding more of those into my sessions my cruising speed, floor, and max on ball speeds have increased at a higher rate vs e-speed as I have come into more plateaus. 
 

My Stack to E-Speed is +11, Max Air Swing is pretty on par with Peak E-Speed. Have gotten it over a couple times by 1 mph. 
 

The on ball stuff can get funky but based on personal experiences + my full Bryson mode on ball session hitting 50+ max drives yesterday (thanks to whoever posted that video a couple days ago and put that in my head), 90+ % of those would be within a +4 to + 8 range in addition to e-speed. 
 

So using Player A example you gave, I would fill it out as: 

 

Player A (110 MPH CHS ball and driver)

 

Estimated 195g stack speed? 104 - plus or minus 2 mph. Probably would lean closer to the plus 2 mph at 106. 

 

Estimated driver air swing speed? 115 or close to it. 

[PAndaemonium89]

4th program, almost a year on the stack and no gains. Did a TPI assessment, checked boxes. This system did nothing for me. Extremely frustrated. Fortunately still maintaining a 7 index and didn’t see it screw up my swing. 
 

 

[CMCSGolf]

I've still got the exact opposite problem of @Rasser75, where my driver speed with a ball is 9mph faster than I can get with the 195 weight.

 

Today I took the Stack and my PRGR to the range to do everything together in the same place to get the most comparable numbers possible.  My normal speed with the driver was ~106, my max out with driver and a ball got to 109, and my absolute max with the Stack was 100.  

 

I'm not even close to swinging the Stack at 195 as my normal driver swing.  One could hope that if I get faster with the Stack (even if it is slower than my driver), my driver swing will get faster.  But I still can't pick up any speed with the stack.  I've been ~100 with my fastest swing ever at 102 for over a year now.  

 

This is a real puzzle to me.  I think I might drop the Stack and just try speed training with a ball and a driver (as Bryson does in the video above).  It would be ideal to do it with the Stack at home, but that's not in the cards for me.

[Nels55]

53 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

I've still got the exact opposite problem of @Rasser75, where my driver speed with a ball is 9mph faster than I can get with the 195 weight.

 

Today I took the Stack and my PRGR to the range to do everything together in the same place to get the most comparable numbers possible.  My normal speed with the driver was ~106, my max out with driver and a ball got to 109, and my absolute max with the Stack was 100.  

 

I'm not even close to swinging the Stack at 195 as my normal driver swing.  One could hope that if I get faster with the Stack (even if it is slower than my driver), my driver swing will get faster.  But I still can't pick up any speed with the stack.  I've been ~100 with my fastest swing ever at 102 for over a year now.  

 

This is a real puzzle to me.  I think I might drop the Stack and just try speed training with a ball and a driver (as Bryson does in the video above).  It would be ideal to do it with the Stack at home, but that's not in the cards for me.

Edit:  Oops I meant to reply to @CMCSGolf 's post above this one.  Longer and lighter equals faster so I thought that maybe the driver is longer and lighter then the 195 stack.

I suppose this may be a dumb question but Is your driver longer then the 195 stack? 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Nels55

[Rasser75]

13 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

I've still got the exact opposite problem of @Rasser75, where my driver speed with a ball is 9mph faster than I can get with the 195 weight.

 

Today I took the Stack and my PRGR to the range to do everything together in the same place to get the most comparable numbers possible.  My normal speed with the driver was ~106, my max out with driver and a ball got to 109, and my absolute max with the Stack was 100.  

 

I'm not even close to swinging the Stack at 195 as my normal driver swing.  One could hope that if I get faster with the Stack (even if it is slower than my driver), my driver swing will get faster.  But I still can't pick up any speed with the stack.  I've been ~100 with my fastest swing ever at 102 for over a year now.  

 

This is a real puzzle to me.  I think I might drop the Stack and just try speed training with a ball and a driver (as Bryson does in the video above).  It would be ideal to do it with the Stack at home, but that's not in the cards for me.

As I understand, your driver should be 8-10 MPH faster than the stack 195g. So your numbers are textbook.

 

The stack is a shorter club - so will have lower speed compared to your driver.

 

 

[jas0nmacisaac]

2 hours ago, Rasser75 said:

As I understand, your driver should be 8-10 MPH faster than the stack 195g. So your numbers are textbook.

 

The stack is a shorter club - so will have lower speed compared to your driver.

 

 

Standard Driver length is 45.5 which should only give you a 6mph boost from the 195g stack. People are either using long drive length drivers or exaggerating the length of their drivers in the app.

[Jlocke22]

15 hours ago, jas0nmacisaac said:

Standard Driver length is 45.5 which should only give you a 6mph boost from the 195g stack. People are either using long drive length drivers or exaggerating the length of their drivers in the app.

Maybe an update or change since your first program. I am not sure, mine has always been as shown. 

[jas0nmacisaac]

8 hours ago, Jlocke22 said:

Maybe an update or change since your first program. I am not sure, mine has always been as shown. 

I figured it out. My radar has a bias that is built in, this app really is amazing.

 

At The Stack System, we analyze nearly all radar devices that track training swings and TheStack App factors out any bias, or systematic error, in speed measurements that are associated with our hardware design.  What does this mean to you?  If your radar measures with a bias, our smart algorithms adjust for it and accurately calculate your eSpeed and Distance Potential regardless of which device you are using.

Edited December 30, 2023 by jas0nmacisaac

[Earleybird]

Need advice from someone who went f****** backwards like I am. At what point to I f*** this device in the bin!? Hit highs of 104 on the 195g, plateaued at that for half a programme, now I've dropped back to a 98. That's not even where I was at with my very first max swing session on the foundation. 

[jas0nmacisaac]

1 hour ago, Earleybird said:

Need advice from someone who went f****** backwards like I am. At what point to I f*** this device in the bin!? Hit highs of 104 on the 195g, plateaued at that for half a programme, now I've dropped back to a 98. That's not even where I was at with my very first max swing session on the foundation. 

Grip it loose, treat it like a whip and swing hard enough that you lose your balance.

Edited December 31, 2023 by jas0nmacisaac

[Catrick_Pantlay]

Looks like they've got a Bluetooth PRGR in the works. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Bbunty
Incorrect