The Stack System

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Retsof2021 said:

I was having the same issues. I elevated mine more because I’m also on a mat. I have it on a small box that is maybe 5 inches high. Still get a few misreads but it’s better. 

 

(Just using your post as a jumping off point…) From what I understand, sometimes the "ledge" can cause some issues, too. Stick the radar out past the lip or the edge of the box if possible.

 

It's true with even stuff like the Mevo+ or Trackman: sometimes the "bounce" off the edge can cause issues.

[Jlocke22]

I bought one of these to counteract that and screws right into the bottom of PRGR

[Brooks_Cupcake]

19 hours ago, Jlocke22 said:

I bought one of these to counteract that and screws right into the bottom of PRGR

post the link, please. 

[dcmidnight]

PRGR says 3-4 feet behind the ball and 2-3" off the ground - that looks closer to 5-6 feet behind the ball.

[leezer99]

3 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

post the link, please. 

Amazon.com : Mini Desktop Tripod, Non Slip Camera Holder Stabilizer Foldable Smartphone Stand Holder, Portable Phone Camera Tripod Camera Mounts Clamps with 1,4 inch Screw for Photographic Equipment : Electronics

[Jlocke22]

Thanks @leezer99 and sorry @Brooks_Cupcake - I wasn't sure about posting links. I tried posting a referral code to someone a while back and was taken down (or maybe that was somewhere else, I can't remember) so I figured if I posted the title and picture people could type it in and eventually get there. 

 

It screws right in and also was initially bought for the range as the closest range to me is a glorified cow pasture half the year and helped keep the PRGR a little above the grass. 

12 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Amazon.com : Mini Desktop Tripod, Non Slip Camera Holder Stabilizer Foldable Smartphone Stand Holder, Portable Phone Camera Tripod Camera Mounts Clamps with 1,4 inch Screw for Photographic Equipment : Electronics

 

[Elee913]

One difference between the Speed Sticks and Stack is that in Stack, I’m supposed to (at least in the early days of the Foundation training set) be swinging at Full Speed vs. Max Speed.  I’m having a lot of difficulty trying to determine what Full Speed is.  In that way, the Speed Sticks anre easier to train to and measure because I’m just trying to swing as hard as I can there.  I worry that what I thought was “Full Speed” last week is not what I’m doing next week as I attempt to “get faster”.  Does anyone have that problem?  It just seems so subjective (for lack of a better word) what Full Speed is on any given day.  Vs. Max Speed is just that.  

 

Does the Foundation training start to incorporate Max Speed efforts?

[Seamus_McDuff]

3 hours ago, Elee913 said:

One difference between the Speed Sticks and Stack is that in Stack, I’m supposed to (at least in the early days of the Foundation training set) be swinging at Full Speed vs. Max Speed.  I’m having a lot of difficulty trying to determine what Full Speed is.  In that way, the Speed Sticks anre easier to train to and measure because I’m just trying to swing as hard as I can there.  I worry that what I thought was “Full Speed” last week is not what I’m doing next week as I attempt to “get faster”.  Does anyone have that problem?  It just seems so subjective (for lack of a better word) what Full Speed is on any given day.  Vs. Max Speed is just that.  

 

Does the Foundation training start to incorporate Max Speed efforts?

Had to look up my history since it’s been forever since I did Foundation, but yes, starting in Phase 3 everything is max. 

[RCGA]

Is Stack Putting any good? 

[ALIF]

5 hours ago, Elee913 said:

One difference between the Speed Sticks and Stack is that in Stack, I’m supposed to (at least in the early days of the Foundation training set) be swinging at Full Speed vs. Max Speed.  I’m having a lot of difficulty trying to determine what Full Speed is.  In that way, the Speed Sticks anre easier to train to and measure because I’m just trying to swing as hard as I can there.  I worry that what I thought was “Full Speed” last week is not what I’m doing next week as I attempt to “get faster”.  Does anyone have that problem?  It just seems so subjective (for lack of a better word) what Full Speed is on any given day.  Vs. Max Speed is just that.  

 

Does the Foundation training start to incorporate Max Speed efforts?

That was difficult for me to so I just swing as hard as I can on everything. LOL.

[Rasser75]

16 hours ago, Elee913 said:

One difference between the Speed Sticks and Stack is that in Stack, I’m supposed to (at least in the early days of the Foundation training set) be swinging at Full Speed vs. Max Speed.  I’m having a lot of difficulty trying to determine what Full Speed is.  In that way, the Speed Sticks anre easier to train to and measure because I’m just trying to swing as hard as I can there.  I worry that what I thought was “Full Speed” last week is not what I’m doing next week as I attempt to “get faster”.  Does anyone have that problem?  It just seems so subjective (for lack of a better word) what Full Speed is on any given day.  Vs. Max Speed is just that.  

 

Does the Foundation training start to incorporate Max Speed efforts?

To my understanding. The reason for the full vs max speed is to slowly build strength in order to prevent injuries.

[Jlocke22]

18 hours ago, RCGA said:

Is Stack Putting any good? 

Yes - I loved using it this past season. Able to make tags and keep track of strokes gained if you switch weights, balls, grips, etc. but also starts to point out typical miss errors and tendencies vs left/right and short/long. Can also do a chopped-down session if you have 10-15 minutes before a round and helps rather than just smashing balls around carelessly. 

[Jlocke22]

22 hours ago, Elee913 said:

One difference between the Speed Sticks and Stack is that in Stack, I’m supposed to (at least in the early days of the Foundation training set) be swinging at Full Speed vs. Max Speed.  I’m having a lot of difficulty trying to determine what Full Speed is.  In that way, the Speed Sticks anre easier to train to and measure because I’m just trying to swing as hard as I can there.  I worry that what I thought was “Full Speed” last week is not what I’m doing next week as I attempt to “get faster”.  Does anyone have that problem?  It just seems so subjective (for lack of a better word) what Full Speed is on any given day.  Vs. Max Speed is just that.  

 

Does the Foundation training start to incorporate Max Speed efforts?

My full is lead foot for the most part down and the hardest I would swing on an actual course. Max is full turn, lead foot up, longer handpath, and swinging that thing with everything I have. 

[MichBadger]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:16 AM, Jlocke22 said:

@MichBadger Hard to say without exactly knowing all details but based on SS and percentiles I would guess you are in that 35-45 year old range or close to it.
 

I think many for just a basic number to hit in lifting recommend 1.5 x BW Squat and Deadlift and 1.25 x Bench. If in that 25-40 range many try and push closer to 2 x BW Squat/DL and 1.5 x BW Bench. RDL’s are a solid glute/hamstring builder also. 
 

If off a bit on those I may start there. For some explosive stuff you could work in some weighted jumps (w/dumbells or Trapbar) or some jumping speed skaters, box jumps, depth jumps, etc. to help with impulse adaptations. 

 

Med Ball throws and variations are great 

 

May also want to explore adding in some sprinting and “max swings” with throwing the club forward first to start and then back into the swing to increase speed and possible kinematics/sequencing a bit. 
 

Just trying to think of some ways to push your body a bit into adapting. 

@Jlocke22 Thanks for chiming in on this, as well as your comments in the other similar threads.  I probably have a slightly unhealthy obsession with improving my distance over the winter.  I currently belong to Planet Fitness because it's really convenient and cheap.  I've followed the a lot of the golf fitness advice here/Twitter/ etc and try to adapt as best as possible at Planet Fitness, but need to decide if it would be worth it to move elsewhere.  I need to also continue chasing efficiency in my swing.

[RCGA]

48 minutes ago, Jlocke22 said:

Yes - I loved using it this past season. Able to make tags and keep track of strokes gained if you switch weights, balls, grips, etc. but also starts to point out typical miss errors and tendencies vs left/right and short/long. Can also do a chopped-down session if you have 10-15 minutes before a round and helps rather than just smashing balls around carelessly. 

 

How granular does it get? 

 

Putts miss/make because of speed, read, and start line.  If I miss a putt left, maybe a pulled it, or hit it too hard for the break, or misread it. Does it distinguish between those? 

 

I've seen the heatmap is produces (25% left, 30% short, etc.), but that doesn't really tell me anything. 

[iacas]

4 hours ago, RCGA said:

Does it distinguish between those? 

 

As much as you can, yes. You're the one who enters the reason.

 

Regardless, if you keep missing left to right putts, you'll get more of them to practice.

 

Edited January 9, 2024 by iacas

[Augster]

23 hours ago, RCGA said:

 

How granular does it get? 

 

Putts miss/make because of speed, read, and start line.  If I miss a putt left, maybe a pulled it, or hit it too hard for the break, or misread it. Does it distinguish between those? 

 

I've seen the heatmap is produces (25% left, 30% short, etc.), but that doesn't really tell me anything. 

You put the data in. The app just tracks it. 
 

If you can’t tell if you pulled it or hit it too hard, putting is going to be hard for you. I don’t think any app can help you with that. 

[KnoxvilleReb]

On 1/8/2024 at 10:07 AM, Elee913 said:

One difference between the Speed Sticks and Stack is that in Stack, I’m supposed to (at least in the early days of the Foundation training set) be swinging at Full Speed vs. Max Speed.  I’m having a lot of difficulty trying to determine what Full Speed is.  In that way, the Speed Sticks anre easier to train to and measure because I’m just trying to swing as hard as I can there.  I worry that what I thought was “Full Speed” last week is not what I’m doing next week as I attempt to “get faster”.  Does anyone have that problem?  It just seems so subjective (for lack of a better word) what Full Speed is on any given day.  Vs. Max Speed is just that.  

 

Does the Foundation training start to incorporate Max Speed efforts?

This actually leads into my biggest complaint about The Stack (really like it overall, it works). But to answer your question, yes you do move onto Max effort swings. Additionally, in the video Sasho says a full swing should be what how you'd swing to hit a golf ball.  On balance, I try to keep the "ball" (spot on floor) in focus, etc. Max effort swings are literally as hard as you can swing it and it being okay to finish off balance. 

 

My big complaint is when you do your benchmark session in the beginning, as well as Phase 1, you are using a full swing. Later on, in phase 2 or 3 when you start using max swings, it uses your max swing speeds as the speed used to track your progress in the different graphs. I just think using the speed difference between those two swings really inflates your progress numbers during the program. Granted, I assume at the end you do your completion benchmark with your driver which will then attempt to compare apples to apples. 

[Jlocke22]

@KnoxvilleReb Yes, phase 4 will work in a mix again of max and full swings. Baseline will then be everything all over again at full swing + driver. In the end it’s all apples to apples from start to finish numbers and what it pulls going into the next program.

[KnoxvilleReb]

40 minutes ago, Jlocke22 said:

@KnoxvilleReb Yes, phase 4 will work in a mix again of max and full swings. Baseline will then be everything all over again at full swing + driver. In the end it’s all apples to apples from start to finish numbers and what it pulls going into the next program.

Yeah I assumed the baseline test would be the same. I didn't know because I stopped after session 13 last time (had probably 8-10mph increase over that time, but then had our 2nd child and stopped...). Picked it back up on January 1st, trying to do a better job of working it into my weekly workout routine. Hoping for the same results again. 

[KnoxvilleReb]

Has anyone here noticed a big difference between doing The Stack 2 times a week instead of 3 times a week? With work, family, wanting to also prioritize non-golf workouts, etc., doing The Stack on Wednesday and Saturday mornings would work really well in my schedule, but trying to space them tighter to get a third day in per week would be much more inconvenient. Just curious if anyone has experience where they didn't see great results at 2 days a week and then far surpassed it as 3 days a week. 

[Seamus_McDuff]

2 hours ago, KnoxvilleReb said:

 

My big complaint is when you do your benchmark session in the beginning, as well as Phase 1, you are using a full swing. Later on, in phase 2 or 3 when you start using max swings, it uses your max swing speeds as the speed used to track your progress in the different graphs. I just think using the speed difference between those two swings really inflates your progress numbers during the program. Granted, I assume at the end you do your completion benchmark with your driver which will then attempt to compare apples to apples. 

 

I agree, but it’s great for their marketing and I’ve learned to not pay much attention to baseline. 

[PureStrikes54]

Anyone have any feedback on the trail or lead arm enhancer programs. Sasho mentions that a "slower" lead or trail arm can affect your normal clubhead speed?

 

Just hit 14 mph faster in progress check with the lead arm.

 

Thinking of doing the trail arm enhancer but program looks to be pretty light other than working trail arm. Thanks!

[Rearviewmirror]

Two sessions to go to finish out the Foundation course:

 

Edited January 14, 2024 by Rearviewmirror

[Jlocke22]

On 1/13/2024 at 3:58 PM, Rearviewmirror said:

Two sessions to go to finish out the Foundation course:

 

Those are some solid gains! 

[Rearviewmirror]

10 minutes ago, Jlocke22 said:

Those are some solid gains! 

 

I'm honestly having a bit of a hard time figuring out what was just lack of "technique" with the Stack itself - i.e. in baseline swinging a weird yellow stick that I wasn't used to, vs now feeling good about how to swing it at max speed. My on course driver speed feels like it's still hanging out around 100-102mph which was about where I was before. Granted it's winter, so a bit hard to tell if I'm stiffer/tighter, but comparing a recent driver fitting session with one from July I'm only up about 0.5mph.

 

I got up to 104mph average driver with balls speed in one speed priming with balls session, and have hit a handful within that at 105/106 but sadly that hasn't stayed constant. I'll only see one shot out of a set hit 104/105 and then also have other priming sessions where's it is flat as a pancake at 100/101mph.

[Retsof2021]

On 1/13/2024 at 3:58 PM, Rearviewmirror said:

 

Two sessions to go to finish out the Foundation course

 

great gains! Good to see you broke through a plateau midway through. I’m seeing a similar plateau at the minute. Just started phase 3 of foundations and can’t seem to push harder on 195g. Based on my percentiles, i really need to work on the heavier weights. Not a ton of sets with those yet as the first 2 phases didn’t focus on those. Gonna keep pushing to breakthrough! 

[Elee913]

On 1/3/2024 at 7:05 AM, jas0nmacisaac said:

4 mph roughly on average

 

On 1/13/2024 at 3:58 PM, Rearviewmirror said:

Two sessions to go to finish out the Foundation course:

 

 

Agree…great gains.  I’m starting out 3 mph slower initially, and would love to get to a low 100s club speed.  Are you seeing your actual club/ball speeds increase along the lines you’re showing above?  10 mph increases in club speed?  

I’m definitely hitting it farther on my GC3, and hit my farthest drive ever.  But I’m definitely light of my e speed.  I typically try driver right after a Stack session, so while speeds are high, maybe I’m tired.  So trying to figure out if I should be testing my club speeds on off training days.  

I have also noticed that the warmup helps a ton on generating speed.  

[Rearviewmirror]

33 minutes ago, Elee913 said:

Are you seeing your actual club/ball speeds increase along the lines you’re showing above?  10 mph increases in club speed?  

I’m definitely hitting it farther on my GC3, and hit my farthest drive ever.  But I’m definitely light of my e speed.  I typically try driver right after a Stack session, so while speeds are high, maybe I’m tired.  So trying to figure out if I should be testing my club speeds on off training days.  

 

A few thoughts... First off - I'm using the junior Stack (shorter length) because our ceilings are too low for a full length Stack). As a result, I think the eSpeed is way off for me.

 

The fastest swing I have recorded with my driver with balls is 106mph. I would hazard a guess and say I am now hovering around 107mph but I have struggled to bring that to the course so far. Like I mentioned, when I was doing a driver fitting on Trackman back in July I was hitting 102 max driver speed.

 

A few charts to illustrate this:

 

 

 

 

Now, what may be of more interest to folks is my distance/dispersion pre and post-Stack. Sadly I didn't have a huge "before" set with Arccos (I used to use Garmin) but the dispersion is massively tightened up from my on-course perspective:

 

Pre Stack:

 

 

Post Stack:

 

 

Confounding variables:

It's winter. We have dropped around 40ºF since I started using Stack and most of my rounds recently have been in the mid-30ºs. That said, after starting Stack I did see some of my longest total drives (290+) and have not seen a massive decrease in average distance. So I would guess that I have basically "kept up" with my old average distance in spite of the temperature drop and wetter fairways with less rollout. 

 

In addition, not sure if Stack helped with this, but I've been working on less hip sway and more hip turn - this has led to more consistent face contact and also a bit of relearning. As a result my attack angle is more positive, and my last round my driver is now 10.5º instead of 12º. I am about to change driver, so it's entirely possible that'll also mess up any before/after on course effects.

 

Conclusions:

Looking at numbers and being realistic, I think I have likely picked up 5-6mph of clubhead speed that I will see once it's not absolutely freezing outside. My biggest challenge post-Stack has been to maintain that feeling of quickness through the ball, which seems to come and go a bit for me. I definitely feel even more confident on driver dispersion, and it is very rare now that I will hit driver OB for any reason other than course mismanagement. 

 

Edited January 15, 2024 by Rearviewmirror

[jas0nmacisaac]

Finally finished foundation after a little bit of a right shoulder injury to slow me down. 
 

I tried one swing with no weights on and I hit 151 (not sure how the long drivers get there with a driver).