Why don’t more people play component golf clubs?

[BIG STU]

Remember first off most recreationla golfers outside of WRX and other forums are not as equipment savy as we are

 

Now the component market in any area depends on the strength and reputation of the fitter/ dealer. My friend was one of the top fitters ( IMHO ) on this beach. He sold and built Alpha , Infiniti , KZG and Wishon. He did real good. He retired and moved about 4 years ago now. Since then you hardly see any of those brands around.

 

`On the equipment savy thing my other Bud used to be the Miura dealer ( he also retired). We always had big groups to play. One time we went to a course and probably out of 20 players there were about 10 sets of various Miura irons. One of the bag drop guys told the other guy those were clone junk. I about died. I told him whiz kid get on your phone and look up Miura and see about them being clone junk. What was so bad those guys were students at one of our local PGM schools.

[boggyman]

Brand perception and tour presence.  If your a true club Ho, you’d be worried about resale. Other than those that, it’s got to be availability. I’m seriously considering a set of Maltbys as my next set. I like to be different. I don’t  false advertising claims like the promotion of 27 more yards,  blah blah blah. All “we” hear theses days is how far Brand X iron or driver will go. Never hear how “close” folks hit Brand X. The mere average Joe buys into that,  but not me. My irons currently were play produced in the ‘80s FWIW, and it’s not due to cost issues either. Maltby has solid offerings!

Edited March 8, 2021 by boggyman

[lefthack]

I just bought a set of 3-PW KZG forged cavity back heads and a set of Dynamic Gold S300 shafts to go in them. Kind of excited, but I don't want to like them too much.

[scooterhd2]

I just bought a Maltby DBM 7 iron. Thinking about building a set for a backup bag. Only had one round and one range session with it, but its a great option thus far. Love the DBM look. I was surprised about how thin the top line is. Smaller than my Z785 7 iron. Sole width is comparable really. And paired with a DGS300, I did not find the ball flight to be too high at all. I was prepared to give up some distance as the lofts are weaker but so far right on to my Z785. The feel is a little clicky. I was prepared for that in the reviews, but wasn't expecting it to be a soft forging like Srixon anyway. Alot of potential here. Looking forward to testing it more and may follow through and build a set. 

 

 

[BogeyParBogey]

Most people on WRX and other forums I think have the disposable income to buy the clubs they want to play.  Others are looking for bargains and would consider components.   

 

I think the other aspect of WRX is that this is not the normal golfer.  I suspect the 300 yard drives / 115 MPH driver swing speed, etc... is NOT fake.  These people can really play.  If you swing it that fast you need a better shaft than the Score LT or other bargain shafts.  Personally, I could play fine with the Score LT, but I swing slower than most here. 

 

Are you really going to take component heads and put $40-45 Project X 6.5 shafts in it?  I doubt it.

 

The other side is that Golfworks for example has gotten much more expensive for their high end clubs.  The premium paks are reduced in options now.  TS1/TS2 heads are $50 each.  If you play TS1/TS2 unless you fit the KBS Tour 105/Score LT you are paying full retail for shafts or buying pulls/ebay shafts.   

 

I have a set of TE Forged with DG R300 and they are very nice. I'd recommend them if someone wants a good feeling, "traditional" spec, 5 step forged iron.

 

Dave

[BogeyParBogey]

4 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

I just bought a Maltby DBM 7 iron. Thinking about building a set for a backup bag. Only had one round and one range session with it, but its a great option thus far. Love the DBM look. I was surprised about how thin the top line is. Smaller than my Z785 7 iron. Sole width is comparable really. And paired with a DGS300, I did not find the ball flight to be too high at all. I was prepared to give up some distance as the lofts are weaker but so far right on to my Z785. The feel is a little clicky. I was prepared for that in the reviews, but wasn't expecting it to be a soft forging like Srixon anyway. Alot of potential here. Looking forward to testing it more and may follow through and build a set. 

 

 

 

The DBM finish may be what is causing it to be clicky.  The TE is soft in my opinion.

 

Dave

[dubbelbogey]

For 99.99% of golfers, it's simply about familiarity, access, and convenience. Anybody who watches even a bit of golf on TV know the names Titleist and Taylor Made. Anybody who's walked into a golf or regular sporting goods store knows the other names available there. Component brands have virtually zero mainstream presence in retail shops, course pro shops or even online. Super niche.

 

I think they heyday of components is behind us (probably when Golfsmith was pushing it). Back then they had very prominent sections of their stores dedicated to their own components. They even had a PGA tour pro use their gear for a short while. Nobody is investing that sort of money and space to this anymore, so it's not really even on the radar screens of the vast majority of buyers.

 

I built some component sets back in the 90s. It was fun. The clubs worked easily as well as any of the big names. These days, I primarily buy used equipment, so effectively all equipment manufacturers are "component" companies to me. I can buy a set of used Mizunos (or whatever) and reshaft and regrip them to whatever spec I want. I can adjust their lofts/lies as needed. And the prices of used gear makes them easily as affordable as new components. Not that they're inherently better, but there's jut a lot more options.

[ChipNRun]

One contributing factor is the absence of component clubheads and proprietary shafts from major golf retailers. Out of sight, out of mind. This wasn't always the case.

 

In 2006, Golf Galaxy bought Ralph Maltby's Golfworks operation. Golfworks designs component clubheads and is a major distributor of shafts, grips, and golf shop equipment. At the time, you could find Maltby clubheads on the shelf at GG. Then, later in 2006, Dick's bought the Galaxy corporation. In a year or two, the Maltby clubheads no longer appeared on the shelf.

 

Same thing happened at Golfsmith (now out of business). It carried Snakeeye clubheads in store in the early 2000s, but started phasing them out.

 

Fast forward to today, most people who have component clubs got them one of two ways.

• They build clubs themselves, or;
• They find an independent shop that specializes in building component clubs. Such shops are becoming fewer and fewer in metro areas due to reach of golf superstores.

Component clubs are less popular now that most golf shops will do fittings for major club lines and get you a custom build from the factory. If you don't order super-upcharge shafts or ostrich leather grips, it won't cost you much more than an off-the-rack set.

 

And, another drawback to component clubs:

6 hours ago, cgasucks said:

Their resale value sucks that's why.

Edited March 9, 2021 by ChipNRun

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, lefthack said:

I just bought a set of 3-PW KZG forged cavity back heads and a set of Dynamic Gold S300 shafts to go in them. Kind of excited, but I don't want to like them too much.

How about posting pics if you can-- If they are the older teardrop cavity backs as we call them then they are one piece Kyoei forgings and hit like butter.

[Buzzkill]

6 hours ago, cgasucks said:

Their resale value sucks that's why.

I’ve played many component clubs - quality is same as top brand BUT you take a bath when moving on during resale!

[cgasucks]

23 minutes ago, Buzzkill said:

I’ve played many component clubs - quality is same as top brand BUT you take a bath when moving on during resale!

Absolutely, no question the quality and performance of the Maltby's, KZGs, and the Nakashima's in the world are up there with the Titleists, Pings, Mizunos, and Callaways but if you're the type of guy that insists on getting the latest models every few years, stay the hell away from them.  Their resale value is shite.

[chipa]

I looked into component clubs many years ago because of budget but would never buy my irons anywhere else as I can get what I really want that I really couldn't anywhere else without spending thousands of dollars.

 

I'm sure many people aren't away of components clubs and when seeing their prices compared to brand name stuff they just assume they are poor quality. Then their is the perception that brand name stuff has a better technological advantage than components, which may be true for the woods but probably not near as much as the irons, unless the goals is to hit your irons as far as possible given your ability. Then again irons like these never stop where they land so I don't know what the real advantage is, after all irons are just to hit a certain distance.

[Christen_The_Sloop]

6 hours ago, sevenfourate said:

Snobbery. Its because of brand snobbery.......

 

I`m sure there`s a bit of that. There`s nothing better than taking down the guy that looks like he`s on staff with some OEM with clubs you wouldn`t look twice at an a garage sale.

[NCDuffer]

My son plays college golf and they get all their equipment free from Titleist.  He swings T100 irons.  He came home this past weekend and we got to play a quick 9 together.  I had changed to Maltby TS-1s and he was skeptical.  On the par 3, 8th hole, he says, “Dad, mind if I swing your 7 iron, don’t worry I’ll baby it so I won’t break your shaft.”  I hand him my 7 and he hits it.  He says, “Wow”, slight pause and then says, “Dad I think you made a good choice.”  Wish I had a picture of him looking at the iron.  

[dhen9]

As a fella who frequents Golfworks it took years for me to give Maltby a try. Ya hear the pitch, "these are forged by the same forging house as X,Y,Z." Yeah right, no way! I'd leave with whatever grips, shafts etc I purchased and go on about my day. Then I tried PTM and the TE as well as DBM and thought Holy smokes, they're right. The only clubs that made it through 2020 and now into 21 are KE4 TC 4 wood and 4-5 hybrids. Now I love buying, trying and selling stuff and right now PTM are still in the bag as they've performed as well as T300,200, 0311 Gen2, G710 and a few others and some aren't in same Game Improvement category. I haven't played KZG in some time and they seem to make it more difficult to obtain their product and I've never tried any DTC like Sub 70 or New Level. Maltby product is as good as anything else but the resale gripes are real. I think another reason is partly styling as they're not as clean and timeless as some current designs. The use of decals, stickers and flashy graphics seems gimmicky. This is a shot at TS1, 2 and KE4 Tours. 

[Christen_The_Sloop]

I go to this shop near my house in Japan. It`s got the sweetest gear. You can get outfitted with anything from Miura Giken, Endo, the even small boutique stuff that make use of Kyoei or Miura blanks - Baldo, Jean-Baptiste etc. And, you can get regular OEM stuff, hell even PXG.

 

I took my father in law to get outfitted last weekend. Money is nothing to him. He just wanted lighter clubs and he wanted to gain back some distance. He bought the clubs that he could demo.  TM Glorie driver, Ping woods and Glorie irons. The shop is fantastic, but he wasn`t going to buy a club unless he could hit it and see it in the monitor. He didn`t spend a second looking at the individual heads and I knew it wouldn`t be worth trying to talk him into imagining what he could bag - he could get a sweet Masda SW with a custom Air Speeder shaft or something. He bought the bloody set SW. That`s cringe, but he`s totally satisfied - he could probably squeeze a little more out of his dollar. He just doesn`t care. 

 

 

[RolandofGilead]

It's not dissimilar from cooking at home versus eating out (pre-pandemic): plenty of people will pay for convenience and known quality instead of saving money on lower cost at-home customization that requires more engagement. I brew beer at home and there are parallels on that front, too. 

 

Two things come to mind:

 

1. The combined cost of customization and value of real world playing trials is hard to beat with component clubs. I had a custom shaft/head wedge built by Golfworks for $85. After a few months I don't think the head is meeting my needs. I am going to buy a different model head for $35 and pay my shop $15 to swap it into the same shaft. Not having to buy an entirely new Vokey/TM/etc. wedge saves a ton of money.

 

2. There's no getting around the fact that the cost of golf keeps a lot of people from picking up the game or meeting their full playing potential. Equipment costs are a part of that. Golfworks/Sub70/Wishon... partnering with a metro muni network to be a visible/preferred provider of properly fitted clubs at a low cost could go a long way to keeping more people in the game. This would be a fraction of the cost of a fitting at Club Champion, for instance, due to much lower equipment costs.

 

Why do I play DTC and component clubs? Cost is no object - I only buy new irons once every decade. Obviously I enjoy the "research" and reviews. I believe the quality of their clubs is not inferior as it relates to my game, and I think that is the case for a large part of the golfing population. If I can demonstrate this to a few people here and there, that's great. I also fully believe golf doesn't have to be such an expensive hobby and the demographics of the game can get closer to the demographics of America if this lower cost model succeeds.

Edited March 9, 2021 by RolandofGilead

[RogerinNewZealand]

Have tried all options,the parts and postage is high too nz, resale low,far easier too buy 5 to 14 yr old Classic stuff with strong demand when you sell.I like Ping Anser, Scotty,no one else makes a Rapture,V Steel,either

 

cheers,Roger

[mantan]

I agree that a lot of it comes down to what's known by casual golfers.  Heck, small brands that make quality stuff and have a tour presence like Srixon have a hard time breaking into the minds of casual golfers...so a component company won't.  They do make good stuff, but it's often too hard to find/try for most golfers.

 

Two of the best golf items I ever had were a set of Rifle shafted (the original before TT bought them) 560MC irons and a 949 4-wood.  The 560 irons were WAY before their time. They had a fairly traditional size, but were extremely forgiving. They were soft 1020 forged sticks that felt as good as any Mizuno CB iron I've ever hit. The only minor quibble was a plastic looking insert on the back....but they were some of the best irons I've ever played.  The 949 was a rocket launching 4-wood that was good as anything I've ever hit.

 

That was the pros.

 

The cons was trying to buy a set. Getting fit is a total crapshoot based on where you live. The fitter I saw spent most of his time badmouthing other equipment rather than sell me on the clubs he was fitting. It really rubbed me the wrong way.  As others have said, the resale value sucks.  I should have just kept them...but eventually you're ready to move on.  I think I ended up selling them for 20% of what I paid for them. And honestly was lucky to get that.

 

If you are into building clubs yourself or have a fitter you really like, it's a decent option.  But only if you keep your clubs for a long time.

 

I also think the OEMs have a done a better job of getting custom fit options.  Things like the Mizuno shaft optimizer make it easier to find a shaft that fits. And where clubs used to have one or two shaft options, now they have a wide variety.  And OEMs have moved towards making it easier to add different weights to make swingweight changes easier...something companies like Wishon had been doing for years.

 

 

[Thayneil]

13 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

If you like component golf equipment, fine.  That is why Maltby and KZG exist.  Just because someone likes Kia doesn't mean everyone should run out and buy one.  I prefer Titleist, and my 620 series and Porsche.  Good luck with your clubs.

except Wishon and Maltby are not Kias

 

KXG too  if the owner wasnt such a nut they could sell 10 times as many

 

I wonder if Wishon might go DTC I think the  amount of folk interested and capable of proper clubmaking is seriously diminishing SOme of the youtube stuff is  so amateurish and these are folks who think they know!

[BIG STU]

9 hours ago, cgasucks said:

Absolutely, no question the quality and performance of the Maltby's, KZGs, and the Nakashima's in the world are up there with the Titleists, Pings, Mizunos, and Callaways but if you're the type of guy that insists on getting the latest models every few years, stay the hell away from them.  Their resale value is shite.

And guess what? I still have a Nakashima driver head. I could hit that thing a ton but could not control it but still liked it one of the reasons it is still around plus the fact no one in the main golf world knows jack about them.

[BIG STU]

2 hours ago, Thayneil said:

except Wishon and Maltby are not Kias

 

KXG too  if the owner wasnt such a nut they could sell 10 times as many

 

I wonder if Wishon might go DTC I think the  amount of folk interested and capable of proper clubmaking is seriously diminishing SOme of the youtube stuff is  so amateurish and these are folks who think they know!

Yep my bud who had the shop that built KZG had some problems in the past with the owner. He dropped the line for a while for those reasons. But recently KZG has had sorta an upsurge but not around here. I think my closest dealer now is in Greenville SC some 200 miles away. But around here like others have said I can buy used KZG stuff cheap and so cheap that I can build them to suit me.

[BIG STU]

8 hours ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

I go to this shop near my house in Japan. It`s got the sweetest gear. You can get outfitted with anything from Miura Giken, Endo, the even small boutique stuff that make use of Kyoei or Miura blanks - Baldo, Jean-Baptiste etc. And, you can get regular OEM stuff, hell even PXG.

 

I took my father in law to get outfitted last weekend. Money is nothing to him. He just wanted lighter clubs and he wanted to gain back some distance. He bought the clubs that he could demo.  TM Glorie driver, Ping woods and Glorie irons. The shop is fantastic, but he wasn`t going to buy a club unless he could hit it and see it in the monitor. He didn`t spend a second looking at the individual heads and I knew it wouldn`t be worth trying to talk him into imagining what he could bag - he could get a sweet Masda SW with a custom Air Speeder shaft or something. He bought the bloody set SW. That`s cringe, but he`s totally satisfied - he could probably squeeze a little more out of his dollar. He just doesn`t care. 

 

 

Now that is one thing my bud that sold the KZG and Wishon etc. did --- He kept like several examples built up for demo. His shop was located at an Executive course/ driving range so one could go out and hit them in the real world. Infiniti with his clientele was his biggest seller so he kept lots of variables built up for demo on that line

[Red4282]

Branding... brink back snake eyes! Excellent irons!

[NRJyzr]

17 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Resale value is seen by different people, different ways. 

 

My $1300 irons with after market $650 shafts, cost $1950+.  I could buy component set for under $400.  I surely wouldn't put a $650 set of shafts in components heads.   For that matter I wouldn't put a $350 set of shafts in a $300 component heads.

 

If I were to sell my clubs today, I'd get $1000-$1200, and they'd sell quickly.   The aforementioned component set a year later +/- $200, and it would take much longer to sell them.  All depends on what someone can afford.  

 

 

 

Interesting.  Your comparison outlines taking a loss of roughly $900, compared to a maximum loss of $400, and you appear to be considering that a win.  🤔

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by NRJyzr

[Fellaheen51]

5 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Interesting.  Your comparison outlines taking a loss of roughly $900, compared to a maximum loss of $400, and appear to be considering that a win.  🤔

 

 

I'll leave the $1900 iron sets to the ballers.  Somehow managed to cobble together this set all in for >$450.  Then again they don't have $650 worth of shafts installed either.  Even managed to glue them together all by myself.  They play reasonably OK.  But foolish me, didn't take resale value into consideration.  Like rolling my own.  

 

 

[bluedot]

I don't care a bit about marketing, and I don't care a bit about resale value.  And if a given club could help me get the ball in the hole quicker, I wouldn't care what name was on it; brand snobbery is WAY in my rearview mirror.  At 69 years old, I'm just trying my damnedest to play the best golf I can play for as long as I can.  And I can't see a way for components to fit into that picture, I really can't.

 

It has been many, many years since I put a club in my bag without being fitted for it first, and in this day and age of interchangeable shafts, adjustable club heads, and launch monitors, I can't imagine why I ever would.  And that is just a flat out deal-breaker for component clubs, at least for me.

 

Even assuming that I could find a guy who is REALLY good at assembly and all of that, (and FWIW I wouldn't even know where to start looking for such a guy) how do I test what I'm considering buying?  I don't do that with Ping; why would I do that with Maltby or Wishon?  The last driver fitting I did lasted well over an hour, and we tried a bunch of different combinations before settling on one that gave me an extra 10 yards and really good dispersion.  How do I duplicate that session with components?

 

The only reason I can think to try components, at least FOR ME, is if I wanted to learn to assemble clubs myself.  And while that is sort of a cool idea, after I made a set or two, what then? 

[NRJyzr]

Someone mentioned it earlier, the sped up product cycles have negatively affected the component market.  

 

Around the turn of the millennium, component driver heads were leading the way.  They were the ones who pushed the size envelope. Integra had the first 400cc driver, IIRC, a 450cc clubhead was put out by a few companies, SMT had the clubhead that won World Long Drive. 

 

And, component clubheads were actually within published spec tolerance, not 3* or 4* higher than what was stamped on the club.  CoughCallawayCough 

 

Then there's the price/value angle...  OEMs were lagging behind for a while.

 

Ramped up product cycles meant slightly used gear was now more competitive with new components.  As can be seen throughout this thread, and WRX in general, people will default to branding more often than not.  And the component portion of the market shrunk.

 

In drivers, components haven't kept up with the adjustable revolution.  IMHO the most important aspect of that isn't the ability to tweak your clubhead a degree here and there, but the ability to reshaft your stick with a wrench and an ebay purchase (or a bit of epoxy and a couple parts).  The hill gets steeper.

 

A bit of memory lane in the above. 🙂

 

[NRJyzr]

32 minutes ago, bluedot said:

The only reason I can think to try components, at least FOR ME, is if I wanted to learn to assemble clubs myself.  And while that is sort of a cool idea, after I made a set or two, what then? 

 

At minimum, you'd be able to deal with simpler repair of bent shafts.  Or, as your shaft needs change in the age curve, you'd be able to tackle the problem yourself.

 

I went down this road 20+ years ago, and I'm glad I did.  I was able to more easily fix what needed fixing, more easily try what I wanted to try (such as Super Peening Blues), and so on.  My shaft flex needs were a little outside the norm for quite a few years, doing my own work gave me more options, including options largely unavailable in the more normal club markets.

 

If anything, the regripping savings should have an allure.  And pay for what minimal equipment you'd need to get started.

 

One nice side effect...  being able to build my own has allowed me to more easily deal with a couple atypically tall golfers in the immediate family.  My #2 son is 6' 8" tall, my wife is 5' 9".  I was able to build something for both of them without too much effort.  Would have been more problematic otherwise.

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by NRJyzr

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

My first 2 sets were component builds:  First one was a set that my dad had cut down for me, that he'd built in the 70's or 80's.  Second was a semi-custom set from a local golf discounter that specialized in such things that I played through high school and into college.

I gotta be honest though - even as an avid DIY guy (I've built several electric guitars, built a roadbike from the frame up, and do most of my own car maintenance), golf clubs seem intimidating.