Hard stepping Driver shaft....

[cglynn]

Hi all.  I am thinking of building a Maltby ST 2 driver.  My current driver has a UST Mamiya UL Gold 55 shaft, S flex.  I am thinking the flex is a bit too much as the club isn't really performing the way I want it to.  Distance isn't there, and the feel throughout the entire swing is lacking.  The club just feels dead throughout transition and impact, like the shaft isn't loading and kicking the way my other clubs do.

 

  I am playing my irons halfway between R and S (Score LT shafts) and am very happy with their performance and feel.

 

With that in mind, would it be possible to essentially hard step an R flex driver shaft by trip trimming it .5-.75 inches?  Or is that a really bad idea, and I should just find a shaft that plays to the proper flex without trimming?

 

Thanks

CG

[animalgolfs]

In General 1"/+ in tipping would be required.....

 

Edit : read your question wrong

 

Weight....change weight

Edited March 9, 2021 by animalgolfs

[MPAndreassi]

One thing to keep in mind if you do decide to tip it is that it’ll also play that same amount shorter. So you’ll need to be okay with it playing shorter or okay with having a small extension in. 

[cglynn]

Thanks for the replies.  All of this actually may be a moot point.  A bit of (anecdotal) research has led me to believe that the Maltby line of shafts play firm to their listed flex.  If that's the case, then R flex would be about perfect.  I am tempted to try my KE4 head in an R flex Maltby shaft, as opposed to building a new club.  I might also look for a Fujikura Motore 70 in S flex.  I have one of those in my R9 4w and absolutely love it.  I know its an oldie, but I have had great performance with it.

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, cglynn said:

Hi all.  I am thinking of building a Maltby ST 2 driver.  My current driver has a UST Mamiya UL Gold 55 shaft, S flex.  I am thinking the flex is a bit too much as the club isn't really performing the way I want it to.  Distance isn't there, and the feel throughout the entire swing is lacking.  The club just feels dead throughout transition and impact, like the shaft isn't loading and kicking the way my other clubs do.

 

  I am playing my irons halfway between R and S (Score LT shafts) and am very happy with their performance and feel.

 

With that in mind, would it be possible to essentially hard step an R flex driver shaft by trip trimming it .5-.75 inches?  Or is that a really bad idea, and I should just find a shaft that plays to the proper flex without trimming?

 

Thanks

CG

 

Tipping is certainly possible to tweak the feel of a shaft stiffer but you seem to be making a lot of assumptions you shouldn't be.  (minor note: it's not called stepping with wood shafts.  The 'stepping' term originates from adjusting taper tip iron shafts which couldn't be tipped, so instead you move the shaft (step) from one iron head to another.  e.g. the 7i to the 6i).

 

Back to the point, there is no standard for flex.   Just because one stiff shaft is too stiff doesn't tell you anything about what flex might be good for a completely different model.   I could find you an x-stiff shaft that's softer than your UL Gold 55  or a reg flex that's actually stiffer.   In the same way, just because you're between flex in that one iron shaft doesn't tell you anything about what will work for any other wood or iron shaft.

 

Once you tip a wood shaft there is no going back.  So best to actually test out whatever shaft you choose in 'R' flex w/o any tipping before you start to do any tipping.   Just build the club 1" longer than you want it and test it choking up that inch.  That will give you room to tip if you need to.

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Stuart_G

[cglynn]

Thanks Stuart.  Its funny you mention the lack of standardization in golf shafts.  In my OP, I had a whole rant about that very thing typed up, but figured it wasn't constructive so deleted it before I hit the submit button.  For what its worth, I find the lack of standardization within shafts to be super frustrating, as it makes it difficult for a guy who does not have access to 100's of shafts to find a performer.  Though possibly that fact does keep club fitters in business, so there is that.

 

Along those lines, I am pretty sure one way to determine shaft stiffness is CPM with a standard weight attached to the end, as done during FLO'ing.  Does there exist a chart that lists shafts by their CPM, that could be used as a reference for different makes and models?  For example, my favorite stiff shaft from brand x CPMs the same as an r flex from brand y, and should therefore play similarly (assuming what I think I know about shafts is true...)

 

CG

[Stuart_G]

18 minutes ago, cglynn said:

Thanks Stuart.  Its funny you mention the lack of standardization in golf shafts.  In my OP, I had a whole rant about that very thing typed up, but figured it wasn't constructive so deleted it before I hit the submit button.  For what its worth, I find the lack of standardization within shafts to be super frustrating, as it makes it difficult for a guy who does not have access to 100's of shafts to find a performer.  Though possibly that fact does keep club fitters in business, so there is that.

 

Along those lines, I am pretty sure one way to determine shaft stiffness is CPM with a standard weight attached to the end, as done during FLO'ing.  Does there exist a chart that lists shafts by their CPM, that could be used as a reference for different makes and models?  For example, my favorite stiff shaft from brand x CPMs the same as an r flex from brand y, and should therefore play similarly (assuming what I think I know about shafts is true...)

 

CG

 

It's a common misconception but in reality, butt frequency is really not an accurate representation of the stiffness of the shaft or what you'll feel.   You need stiffness data across the whole length of the shaft (commonly referred to as the full profile data).  I'll share a link to an article that explains that in much more detail below.   And while I share you're feelings about lake of standardization, even if it existed it wouldn't be the short cut you seem to be looking for.  There are a few independent sources for standardized data on shafts (usually not free though).  And even with full profile information on shafts it still takes a lot of effort testing different shafts and monitoring results to figure out for each golfer how they respond to changes in stiffness for different parts of the shaft and what works and what doesn't.   It doesn't matter if it's with a fitter or you go out and do it yourself.   It's just too subjective of an evaluation to be able to look at a bunch of numbers for any given shaft and use that to predict what will happen to the feel of the shaft or the results until you (as the one looking for a new shaft) have gained a lot of experience other shafts and start to find patterns between the shaft data and the results.   The better the data is it might help cut down the number of iterations before you reach the right shaft but It's always going to be a trial and error approach and you'll still need access to many shafts to figure it out.

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/73753/wishon-shaft-frequency-can-be-misleading/

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Stuart_G

[cglynn]

Thank you again, Stuart.  

 

That Wishon article is great (as is pretty much everything else he has written...I would be smart to read his books...)

 

So it looks like there is no substitute for time and hard work when it comes to shaft selection.

 

Of course after I posted all this I went to the range and hit balls.  Once I got warmed up and starting hitting the ball really well, I noticed something.  My best shots were made with a different tempo than my worst shots.  When I rushed the tempo and transitioned immediately into the downswing it was a pooch screw.  All sorts of bad things happened...casting, hitting it fat, hitting it thin, hitting it on the toe, etc.  But when I slowed the transition so it felt like there was a noticeable pause at the top, I was striking the ball very well.  Contact was right in the middle of the club face, shots went further, and felt better.  

 

Good swings are a great place to start.  I am going to start consciously trying to groove that pause (I can't tell you if I actually pause at the top, or if its just a feel) and hopefully not turn into Charles Barkley.

 

Once I get that dialed in, then I will revisit the shaft idea.  It may turn out that I don't require one.

[Stuart_G]

25 minutes ago, cglynn said:

Of course after I posted all this I went to the range and hit balls.  Once I got warmed up and starting hitting the ball really well, I noticed something.  My best shots were made with a different tempo than my worst shots.  When I rushed the tempo and transitioned immediately into the downswing it was a pooch screw.  All sorts of bad things happened...casting, hitting it fat, hitting it thin, hitting it on the toe, etc.  But when I slowed the transition so it felt like there was a noticeable pause at the top, I was striking the ball very well.  Contact was right in the middle of the club face, shots went further, and felt better.  

 

You're not alone 🙂   A quick transition is a very common problem (or really an early transition - it's not how fast you do it, it's when you do it relative to what the rest of the body is doing that is usually the issue - or so my pro tells me).

 

 

25 minutes ago, cglynn said:

 

 

Once I get that dialed in, then I will revisit the shaft idea.  It may turn out that I don't require one.

 

Sometimes, working with playing length, increasing the shaft weight, and/or swing weight can help with that particular type of timing/sequencing problem.    You can play around with lead tape on the shaft and/or head to test out that idea w/o even having to get or use a different shaft.   Look through this self fitting tutorial for details on how to go about doing it.

 

 

[cglynn]

Thanks again Stuart.  Lots to digest there.  I have been reading Howard's posts for a while now, and he appears to really know his stuff.  Between you, Howard, and T. Wishon. there is a huge wealth of fitting info in this forum.

 

CG

[GLF4EVR]

18 minutes ago, cglynn said:

Thanks again Stuart.  Lots to digest there.  I have been reading Howard's posts for a while now, and he appears to really know his stuff.  Between you, Howard, and T. Wishon. there is a huge wealth of fitting info in this forum.

 

CG

Right there with ya on how helpful those members are when it comes to every aspect of fitting. 

 

Had help this winter on converting my irons using Tuttleman's formula for MOI.  Last weekend had the chance to get out both days to the range.  The course here is not to even open until April.  Hit well over a 100 balls each day.  I am not one of the nest machine gunner types on the range, so each day was a good 2 hours on the range.  Last time I was able to hit a ball was November, so it is just working on the tempo, rhythm & body movement.  The transition is usually the very first thing I have to focus on.  Pulling the trigger too quickly is always ugly.  Vast majority of the time was just hitting the 9 iron.  Was not caring about distance.  Our range is bordered on both side by fairways.  Happy that I was able to not pick a single ball out of the fairway on each day.  Sunday I just wanted to see what the longer irons felt like with the MOI, so took the chance I hit 5 balls with the 3 iron.....straight as can be & right on target.  Put the club away & don't push it.  Before I was done.....5 balls with the 2 iron with the same result.  The long irons felt exactly the same "heft" as the 9, just like it should with MOI matching.  So goal for this season is finally a par round (18 holes).  These guys get the credit if my consistency comes to what my very, very early tests seems to be showing.   

 

Now have around 7 inches of snow that fell yesterday with up to another foot of snow this weekend.  Then back to the 40's at least.

[cglynn]

Quick update.  I used the techniques in shown in the DIY tuneup and started to pay attention to impact point on the club face.  Found I was toeing a lot of shots, and my swing just didn't feel great.  I filmed my swing, and path etc looked okay.  I did some looking online and read from many sources that toe hits can be caused by weight placement (amongst other things...).  Back to my swing video, and sure enough before a take the club back, I was shifting my weight so that it was all on my heels, not the balls of my feet.  

 

Back to the hitting net, foot spray on the irons, weight closer to my toes, and wouldn't know, impact is right where it should be.  Also, with weight on the balls of the feet, I found it easier to turn my hips through the entire swing, and pretty much everything feels better.

 

I also found that maybe my driver is too long.  Going to try gripping down half inch and see how it goes. 

 

To be honest, it never ceases to amazing me at just how involved a golf swing really is, and if any of the elements are out of whack, its going to be a bad time.

 

Thanks for all the help and advice.  You guys saved me from going down a shaft rabbit hole and your advice led me to a swing diagnosis. 

 

I am playing for the first time this season tomorrow (when its supposed to be just over freezing....) so we'll see how it goes.

 

CG