Caddies - Pay - Double Bagging - How to handle bad caddies?

[BG5]

I am lucky enough to have used caddies quite of few times at places like Whistling Straits, Erin Hills, Sand Valley, Streamsong, Kingsley Club, Dunes Club, Lost Dunes etc.  I have had some amazing experiences with some of these guys and its always nice to have one of the best on your bag.  I have also have just few times where my caddie was bad and I mean pretty bad.  That leads me to the question of how much pay does a caddie deserve?

 

I feel we live in a society where everyone feels they are owed something even if they do a bad job.  I have always considered myself a generous tipper and I feel that I never "low ball" anyone but after alot of thought I may be changing my tune.

 

My best caddie experience was at Whistling Straits and I had a guy who was double bagging.  He was professional, hustled, and was just flat out awesome and giving me advice and providing me with things that would help me undersand the golf course and where I needed to be.  At the end of the round I threw him $200 because he was simply fantastic.

 

My worst caddie experience was at Erin Hills and I again had a guy who was double bagging.  This guys was flat out awful and basically did nothing other than carry my clubs.  I paid him $100 but he probably deserved like $50 because his services were pretty bad.

 

So here are a few thoughts and questions

 

Questions

 

1.  What is a fair price for someone who does a really bad job?

 

2.  What is a fair price for an average caddie?

 

3.  What is the rate of an exceptional caddie?

 

 

My Basic Caddie Beliefs

 

1.  Bare minimum I would ever pay a caddie is$60- $80 and this would only be if the service what flat out awful.....4 hour round = $15-$20 a hour....not bad for a guy who is terrible

 

2.  Average caddie pay ranges for $100-$135 (these guys are good but not exceptional)

 

3.  Exceptional Caddies deserve $140-$200 plus

 

Now I am always willing to learn so If I posted something you disagree with please let me know.  I am just curious of other thoughts

[jvincent]

Are you talking total for fee + tip or tip only?

 

Some courses take a fee up front and then it's up to you to tip on top of that. The caddie master / pro shop will usually give you guidelines for tip amounts.

[BG5]

I am talking about what the total cost for a caddie (fee and tip all in total dollar)  

 

The vast majority of places have people pay directly to Caddie....I remember Whistling Straits was different where the clubhouse got a fee etc.  

 

But to make things easier lets just assume all payments go right to Caddie

[Bonneville85308]

I'm familiar with a few east coast private clubs with caddies, and even though the caddie is paid directly by the player and keeps all the money, the club sets an absolute minimum rate. The actual "going rate" for an average job and an exceptional job is obviously higher. If the caddie did a bad job (lagged way behind, lost/mixed up clubs in the two bags, had no clue on yardage, didn't rake bunkers, couldn't spot balls when forecaddying, jerk attitude, etc.) it would be typical to just pay the minimum rate. If you ask, the caddiemaster can inform you as to what the minimum and typical rates are.  If the caddie is really terrible, you need to tell the caddiemaster (calmly, not angrily) and make him aware of the issue. Common theme being you need to talk with the caddiemaster about it.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Bonneville85308

[puttnforthe8]

Agree with Bonn.  You pay for the bag carrying only and thus just the required rate.

[pingfool]

High end clubs that require caddies have caddie rankings. If you ask for an A caddie or Pro caddie you will pay club minimum plus tip

smart kids know they are hustling for a tip. They want you to leave happy

 

they also understand some bags are never happy and that some people are stingy tippers

 

If you’re looking for a good caddie experience you should let the caddie master know and he will make sure you get a strong looper

 

should be a lot of caddies on the site to chime in

 

 

[exgolfpro]

I have used a caddy about 3-4 times.  The only bad one I had was at Erin Hills (also had a great one at Erin Hills on another trip).  As for paying the bad caddy, I gave him the expected pay and did not tip him anything extra.  Then I told the caddy master exactly what I didn't like about this young man.  That way, if the caddy master felt the same way I did about it, he could address the issue.

[Gdane]

I'm of the mindset that if you are going to stiff a caddie due to poor performance then you really shouldn't be taking a caddie in the first place.  That may be the former caddie in me talking, but those guys and girls go to work each day with a minimum that $ amount that they can expect to take home.  It should also be noted that the 4-5 (or 6 in a nightmare scenario) hours they spend on the bag isn't the only time they spend at the club.  On slow days a caddie can spend half a day in the shack waiting for a loop.  As stated earlier courses generally have caddie pay guidelines set in place w minimum suggested tips, and those should be met regardless of the level of service, with better than average service being rewarded with a better tip.

 

Courses and clubs have ways of weeding out bad caddies, so the way that I would recommend dealing with bad service is to hit the minimum suggested (including a tip), and then notify the caddie master of the poor performance.

[puttnforthe8]

2 minutes ago, Gdane said:

I'm of the mindset that if you are going to stiff a caddie due to poor performance then you really shouldn't be taking a caddie in the first place.  That may be the former caddie in me talking, but those guys and girls go to work each day with a minimum that $ amount that they can expect to take home.  It should also be noted that the 4-5 (or 6 in a nightmare scenario) hours they spend on the bag isn't the only time they spend at the club.  On slow days a caddie can spend half a day in the shack waiting for a loop.  As stated earlier courses generally have caddie pay guidelines set in place w minimum suggested tips, and those should be met regardless of the level of service, with better than average service being rewarded with a better tip.

 

Courses and clubs have ways of weeding out bad caddies, so the way that I would recommend dealing with bad service is to hit the minimum suggested (including a tip), and then notify the caddie master of the poor performance.

This is the caddie in you (nothing wrong of course) - however, it is a little bit bs!   Bad service is bad service...period.  Case in point, we had one of the guys on a recent trip physically threatened by the caddie along with lots of verbal abuse.  @#$% if that caddie is getting anything - even the rate.  Which is what happened.   

[Old Tom Morris]

Former Caddie here.

 

You want a good caddie.  Take care of the caddie-master and he will take care of you.  You want a drunk or crackhead or items stolen? Don’t take care of the caddie-master.

[BG5]

12 minutes ago, puttnforthe8 said:

This is the caddie in you (nothing wrong of course) - however, it is a little bit bs!   Bad service is bad service...period.  Case in point, we had one of the guys on a recent trip physically threatened by the caddie along with lots of verbal abuse.  @#$% if that caddie is getting anything - even the rate.  Which is what happened.   

I agree that the standard fee should be paid in most cases.....this example would clearly be a time where I would not pay a dime but this sounds like something that rarely ever happens with caddies

[jvincent]

15 minutes ago, puttnforthe8 said:

This is the caddie in you (nothing wrong of course) - however, it is a little bit bs!   Bad service is bad service...period.  Case in point, we had one of the guys on a recent trip physically threatened by the caddie along with lots of verbal abuse.  @#$% if that caddie is getting anything - even the rate.  Which is what happened.   

That's a story I'd like to hear.

 

I've been lucky to only ever have had good caddies when I've taken them.

 

When we were in Ireland the last time we didn't have a caddy but the other guy in our group did and after the round gave the caddie a few extra Euros since he had helped us out as well even though he didn't have to.

[CactusGolf]

As a former caddy (at some of the clubs you mentioned along with a private club down in Milwaukee), it is tricky because I know what my standards are and what I should expect.  I caddied from 7th grade all the way through college. 

 

It is tough because a lot of the courses that allow walking with the caddy have many that double bag.  I really think the quality decreases with the double-bagging (IMHO).  I grew up single bagging at the private club and it was a much better experience for both player (especially guests) and caddy.  I wish more of the courses that allowed caddies and walking allowed single-bagging, but I understand why they don't.  We made a healthy wage double-bagging compared to single.  I thought pace of play was a little better with the single-bagging too.

 

I have a few hard "no's" when it comes to caddying.  Don't move my ball, don't improve my lie, use the darn putter headcover (driver cover you can keep off and put in the bag), ask me if I would like help reading putts, and move your shadow away from the hole when tending the pin (that's just years of our caddy master looking on and scolding us).  

 

When I went back to Erin Hills after several years of not caddying (graduated college and moved to a new state) I caught my caddy moving both playing partner and my ball back into more favorable positions.  Based on my carry distances and the numerous times I walked the course, I knew that there was NO way my ball could have ended up just in the first cut versus the fescue (it is easy to play out of the fescue there).  Caught him physically moving it on the 3rd hole and sent him back to the shack.  That kind of stuff really, really irritates me.  Couldn't figure out why he was doing it either since both myself and playing partner are relatively low handicaps (I'm a 4 and he was a 2 at the time).

 

The total really depends on the type of club too.  For example, at the course I grew up on our "Honor Caddy" rate was $25 (minimum) so members would likely double that and some would give more based on service.  So, the most of the experienced caddies could expect $50-$60 each round for 4 hours of work (this was back in 2009 when I stopped caddying).  Resort courses were a bit more because many of the caddies were college or mini-tour players (Erin/Whistling) who really knew their stuff and hustled hard.

[StudentGolfer4]

Caddie here. Been doing it 5-6 years. It’s always interesting to hear different opinions on this topic. 
 

I have been around a few people that are simply bad caddies. They lag behind, stand in the wrong place, don’t fix marks, etc. More often than not I think a poor caddie experience comes from a difference in expectations between the player and caddie. For example, maybe you are expecting the caddy to give you yardages factoring wind and elevation instead of just what the range finder says. Do you want the caddy walking back to each tee to help with aiming points or do you prefer they get ahead to forecaddie? Maybe you are expecting help on putts but the caddie is assuming you don’t because you never brought it up?
 

If my player reaches the green in regulation, I will hand them the putter and then try to beat them to the green to repair the ball mark, mark their ball, clean it, and hand it to them as they approach the green. I have had players ask me not to mark their golf ball. Others have said they enjoy fixing their own mark as it’s something they enjoy after hitting a green. “Yes sir/ma’am, not a problem.” Point is, if your are wanting your caddie to do something they aren’t doing or stop doing something they are, tell them.

 

For caddies that makes your experience better, give them a little something extra. After the cost of green fees and paying your caddie the extra 30-40 bucks most likely means very little to you. As a caddie it feels great knowing the player enjoyed their round and it’s always nice going home with more than you expected. If money is tight and you choose not to tip more give them a sincere compliment at the end of the round. “Steve, you really made our round more enjoyable.” Money is always preferred but the satisfaction of knowing you did a good job still Means something. 
 

If your caddie did an adequate job but didn’t add much to your round, usually just a bag carrier, give them the going rate. Ask the caddie master or shop guys. They should know. 
 

As for a really bad caddie, give them the minimum rate. If you don’t intend to pay the caddie, contact the shop and send them back early in the round. Don’t have them out there for 4+ hours and then stiff them.

 

One tip if you have a guy that’s doubling. Be willing to take 2 clubs. If you know that around the greens you usually use a 52 wedge, take that with you after missing the green on your second shot and a putter. Or a 52 and a 56. It will help the looper and prevent you from waiting around. 

[reperna]

Heading to Erin hills this summer and I’m getting a little nervous with all this talk about bad experiences there! I had one at pebble beach once and I didn’t really enjoy it. All he did was joke round with the other caddy. Still tipped him 100.

[landolakes]

IMO — For a lousy caddie, they should get the bag rate. No tip. ... you got screwed, and if the caddie feels screwed, he has himself to blame

[payerasjl]

It’s a tough call. I’d love to tip more when earned, but when you are on a trip and replaying and going 36 a day it’s real hard to keep handing out $40/$50 on top of the $100 recommended fee. Adds up quickly. 
 

[PuttCurseRepeat]

On 3/24/2021 at 12:39 PM, Old Tom Morris said:

Former Caddie here.

 

You want a good caddie.  Take care of the caddie-master and he will take care of you.  You want a drunk or crackhead or items stolen? Don’t take care of the caddie-master.

 

You make a round of golf sound like a North Jersey racket.

[Old Tom Morris]

Just now, PuttCurseRepeat said:

 

You make a round of golf sound like a North Jersey racket.

Worked Long Island and Westchester County mostly. Sometimes New Jersey though.

 

Just telling everyone how the world works.  I don’t make the rules, but knowing them affords one the best life experience.

[PuttCurseRepeat]

5 minutes ago, Old Tom Morris said:

Worked Long Island and Westchester County mostly. Sometimes New Jersey though.

 

Just telling everyone how the world works.  I don’t make the rules, but knowing them affords one the best life experience.

 

Not questioning it, just sayin'...

 

What's the c-m's cut of "found goods"? 😄

[ItJustDiz]

Another former looper here (and yes, late to the thread).

 

The old caddie saying is "Show up, keep up, shut up." and a lot of private clubs and resorts still basically train based on that. So if the guy on your bag does those things along with the other bare min. items, then "minimum recommended tip" should be what they get, and you should have found that number out from the golf shop or the CM.

 

If the guy or gal makes the round or your score more enjoyable or memorable, tip more, simple as that. 

 

But just like getting bad bartender or a server who's shift is almost over, or had personal things going on and isn't giving it their all, min. is still the decent thing to do. FWIW, I looped with a lot of guys who were either way too chatty, trying too hard to relate, or the guys who aren't very good at golf and really try to help but shouldn't... they still got paid. 

 

As others have said, "VIP loops" are a thing and if you make it known to the caddie master or starter that you're looking for a great experience (isn't everybody?) you'll probably have better luck.

[golfortennis]

Boy am I glad how my trip to St Andrews played out.  Played the New Course the first day, didn't take a caddy.  But the two guys I was paired with took caddies.  On a par 5 I yanked my second shot towards some gorse.  I asked the one caddy if the ball could be lost, since I don't know the course.  "No you're short of it, no problem, we'll find it."  Sure enough, we get up there, can't find the ball.  I'm a bit steamed because I asked and I would have hit a provisional.  Now I'm in the situation I don't want to be in, which is take a drop cause I couldn't go back.  There were a couple of other minor things through the round that would have been overlooked had it not been for the prior situation, but I knew I did not want him for a caddy on the Old Course.  Maybe that is harsh, but....

 

Meanwhile, the other caddy was doing his thing,  giving some good advice, and keeping his player on the planet.  So I decided I would request him for the next day.  Let me tell you, the man was worth his weight in gold.  Norm was his name.  I would request him in a heartbeat if I'm ever back there.  Had the stories when they were appropriate, knew the yardage to play for the different winds, knew the breaks on the greens.  The only thing he couldn't do was get me to hit it hard enough.

 

My only regret from the trip was on the third day, playing the Jubilee course, didn't take a caddy, but the guy I played with did, and that caddy was also a good one, who helped me when he didn't have too, and I didn't throw him a few quid.       

Edited April 2, 2021 by golfortennis

[BNGL]

On 3/26/2021 at 7:10 AM, payerasjl said:

It’s a tough call. I’d love to tip more when earned, but when you are on a trip and replaying and going 36 a day it’s real hard to keep handing out $40/$50 on top of the $100 recommended fee. Adds up quickly. 
 

Don't request one.

[2bGood]

I like to give a caddy a little something for the effort. Not money, but I let them know that when they die, on their death bed, they will receive total consciousness.