When a junior transitions to adult clubs what is the preferred club type?

[Golfingdawg19]

My daughter is 13 and is on her third set of adult irons. She has had the Cobra F7 and Cobra F9 irons in the past because I got really good deals on them. My logic was to get her as much help as possible early on and then as she got better transition her into a players iron. I recently took her to get fitted at a very nice facility. The fitter is one of the top ones listed in golf digest. The guy flat told me to get juniors as much help as possible and that there was plenty of time to use the players irons later. All of the instructors at this facility agree with the fitter and the headline instructor is in the top ten list of instructors in the country. The fitter flat told me that you are holding your kid back if you have them hitting these players irons when they can’t routinely break par and work the ball on command. Even the best juniors that my daughter plays against aren’t working the ball. They have one ball flight and they just hit it. They aren’t shaping shots. She outgrew her F9 irons and she ended up with Mizuno Hot Metal Pro irons. It was down between those and the Ping G425. I didn’t say a word and let her and the fitter work it out. As with any sport, the kid usually aren’t the issue, it’s the parents. 

[ColdandUgly33]

On 4/22/2021 at 12:13 PM, heavy_hitter said:

here is no reason to put a kid transitioning into Adult Clubs into players irons.

What's your thoughts on Tiger Woods' philosophy on blades for juniors?  He's arguably the best iron striker of all time and grew up with the mentality that you can swing as fast as you can as long as you find the center.  An SGI or GI will not give you as much feedback on off center strikes but a PI will in effect train the junior to strike center.  He's wanted his son in blades from the start but settled on the slightly more forgiving cavity backs, TM P7MC.  More recently, Charlie was playing blades with slightly hollowed out cavities. 

[heavy_hitter]

12 minutes ago, ColdandUgly33 said:

What's your thoughts on Tiger Woods' philosophy on blades for juniors?  He's arguably the best iron striker of all time and grew up with the mentality that you can swing as fast as you can as long as you find the center.  An SGI or GI will not give you as much feedback on off center strikes but a PI will in effect train the junior to strike center.  He's wanted his son in blades from the start but settled on the slightly more forgiving cavity backs, TM P7MC.  More recently, Charlie was playing blades with slightly hollowed out cavities. 

Charlie is an average junior golfer at best.

 

Very few people swing blades anymore.  Put them in a club that can help them.  There is no difference in finding the center on a blade or a distance iron.  If they need a lot distance, put them in a Game Improvement Iron.  I think the blades for a young kid is hogwash.  Tiger could have swung a 2X4 and found the center because he was that talented.  He made the blades, the blades didn't make him.

[mrshinsa]

30 minutes ago, ColdandUgly33 said:

What's your thoughts on Tiger Woods' philosophy on blades for juniors?  He's arguably the best iron striker of all time and grew up with the mentality that you can swing as fast as you can as long as you find the center.  An SGI or GI will not give you as much feedback on off center strikes but a PI will in effect train the junior to strike center.  He's wanted his son in blades from the start but settled on the slightly more forgiving cavity backs, TM P7MC.  More recently, Charlie was playing blades with slightly hollowed out cavities. 

Isn't Tiger transitioning to GI irons?

https://golf.com/gear/irons/tiger-woods-taylormade-p770-pga-championship/

[kekoa]

At about age 9 or 10 my son went to TM P770's.  Not the new model, but the one that replaced the P750's.  He had two sets of the 770's and then went to the P7MC's.  He just didn't like the sound or the feel of the P790's, which a majority of juniors tend to play.  Yes he probably gave up some distance not going to the 790's, but  it became a preference thing for him.  

[heavy_hitter]

26 minutes ago, kekoa said:

At about age 9 or 10 my son went to TM P770's.  Not the new model, but the one that replaced the P750's.  He had two sets of the 770's and then went to the P7MC's.  He just didn't like the sound or the feel of the P790's, which a majority of juniors tend to play.  Yes he probably gave up some distance not going to the 790's, but  it became a preference thing for him.  

My kids felt the same exact way about the P790's.  Sound and felt weird.

[ColdandUgly33]

13 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

My kids felt the same exact way about the P790's.  Sound and felt weird.

Same here.  My son did not like the size of the P790 heads or the "lack of feel".  The P7MC gave him better launch angles and he preferred the look and the way they felt off the face.  They are likely going shorter than the other options but he loves them and feels confident over them. 

[MB19]

My son is going to be growing out of his TS3 steel shafted 57" irons sometime before Thanksgiving, and I'm not looking forward to that.  I hope that the TS3 60" (steel) will be good enough, and that I can find them in stock.  The other option, of course, is Flynn Alto+.  A suitable used adult replacement with ladies or senior shafts are going to be roughly double what I would spend on the junior brand options.

 

Also gotta hope his sister's hand-me-down driver/shaft combo is the right fit, but that is the least of my concerns.

[ColdandUgly33]

On 6/22/2022 at 9:11 AM, mrshinsa said:

Isn't Tiger transitioning to GI irons?

https://golf.com/gear/irons/tiger-woods-taylormade-p770-pga-championship/

Only in the 2 and 3 iron.

[mrshinsa]

1 hour ago, ColdandUgly33 said:

Only in the 2 and 3 iron.

 

If you're kid is good enough to play butter knives, thats great and more power to you.  

 

Don't let some PGA players dissuade you.  

https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2021/07/14/golf-clubs-equipment-titleist-jordan-spieth-new-irons-the-open-championship.html

[ColdandUgly33]

9 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

 

If you're kid is good enough to play butter knives, thats great and more power to you.  

 

Don't let some PGA players dissuade you.  

https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2021/07/14/golf-clubs-equipment-titleist-jordan-spieth-new-irons-the-open-championship.html

3 of the top 5 players in the world at the moment play blades. 

[Movingday]

3 hours ago, ColdandUgly33 said:

3 of the top 5 players in the world at the moment play blades. 

So 2 of the top 5 don’t?

[tiger1873]

On 6/23/2022 at 6:03 PM, ColdandUgly33 said:

3 of the top 5 players in the world at the moment play blades. 

 

Traditional blades are obsolete.  The few players at the top are just playing what they are always have and really have no reason to change.   Also a lot people call irons blades that actually have a ton a tech built into them.   

[libtech75]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:04 AM, heavy_hitter said:

The "Use a Blade" to learn approach is rubbish IMO.  Grab a set of GI or SGI to help them.  Make the game easier, not harder.  Hitting the center is hitting the center no matter what set you get.  Putting them in a PI is more of an ego thing than anything else.

Totally agree.  That’s a big “if” that your kid will be good enough to “overcome” the inherent difficulties in striking a blade.  They could easily go the opposite direction, hit them terribly, lose confidence and mess up their swing.  Why risk that?

[yellowlover519]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:43 AM, heavy_hitter said:

 

I firmly disagree.  My kid had players irons.  He consistently made center of the face contact.  He hit his 7i 143 yards with the players iron.  The distance he hit his PI's held him back.  7i with SGI went 159 yds with higher apex and better decent angle.

 

If the kid is long enough, go players irons.  The notion a PI will make you a better player is nonsense.

I don’t think it’s necessarily a better player thing.  For us, I know offset will kill my son’s swing as he already draws the ball.  More importantly, the foam injected heads have way too much dispersion on distances.  Would rather have him be short of the green than over which I know some of those clubs are prone to do - they hit like a flyer out of nowhere.  But I do agree that it depends on distances.  No need to hit a blade 8 iron 130 and expect to compete at longer yardages when that would be a PW with a p790.  
 

Currently, he’s loving the Mizuno Pro 221 7-PW and 6,5,4 in the 223.  

[kekoa]

On 6/22/2022 at 8:59 AM, heavy_hitter said:

Charlie is an average junior golfer at best.

 

Very few people swing blades anymore.  Put them in a club that can help them.  There is no difference in finding the center on a blade or a distance iron.  If they need a lot distance, put them in a Game Improvement Iron.  I think the blades for a young kid is hogwash.  Tiger could have swung a 2X4 and found the center because he was that talented.  He made the blades, the blades didn't make him.

I wouldn't say this applies to juniors so much as it does to kids in high school and above, but one of the main reasons why they play blades is distance control and consistency.  Add to that the look and turf interaction.  An 8i blade for example when flushed goes 160-165.  You put a p790 or distance iron in their hands and distances are all over the map.   For the really good kids playing blades, ballstriking is obviously not really an issue.

[heavy_hitter]

19 hours ago, kekoa said:

I wouldn't say this applies to juniors so much as it does to kids in high school and above, but one of the main reasons why they play blades is distance control and consistency.  Add to that the look and turf interaction.  An 8i blade for example when flushed goes 160-165.  You put a p790 or distance iron in their hands and distances are all over the map.   For the really good kids playing blades, ballstriking is obviously not really an issue.

 

 

In a GI iron the distance is all over the map once they increase club head speed.  Not sure about the P790, but I know other distance irons don't have a problem with distances all over the map.  Cobra Forged Tech certainly does not.  I haven't heard of the 770's having that problem either.  P790 seems to be the en-vogue distance iron and in my opinion it is a pos. 

 

The biggest issue at 13 is having to compete from 6500 yds when their swing speed isn't quite there.  This is where a GI or distance iron comes into play.  When playing ability is equal, a PW always beats a 7i.

 

I agree that a players iron will give you more consistency.  Same token it isn't going to help someone that is distance challenged play better.  If you can find the center in a blade a golfer can find the center in a GI or distance.  The theory that using a blade makes someone a better ball striker is hogwash.

 

My kid started at 11 with Wilson FG Tour V6 where his 7i was 137 when he turned 13.  Moved to Callaway Big Bertha at 13 where his 7i was 155 and helped him compete.  Had the Big Bertha for a year and switched irons because the distances got wonky.  9i one shot was 145 and the next was 175.  He was hitting the 4i 250 yds.  Moved to the Cobra Forged Tech because the distancing was not a big discrepancy.  Maybe a 7-8 yard difference less.  Now moving to the Mizuno 223 because he is having gapping issues with the Cobra.  Average 7i distance is 195 yds.  The Mizuno his distance when testing the 7i was 185 with better dispersion.

 

There are very few PGA players that use blades anymore.  T100 is the most used iron on tour and is not a blade.

[kcap]

We moved from the Apex to the T100s this year.  We got to a point where the distance control was really hard with the GI. Two shots flushed could have a distance dispersion of 10yds. We only moved to the T100 when distance was not an issue.  Anyway he loves the T100s, true distance, feel and gives him the confidence to work the ball. 

If only he could putt,  I would be at BD rather than sitting in my office surfing WRX.

[heavy_hitter]

48 minutes ago, kcap said:

If only he could putt,  I would be at BD rather than sitting in my office surfing WRX.

100% feel you.  My kid could hit 18/18 greens and shoot a 75 with 4 birdies.

[wildcatden]

5 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

 

In a GI iron the distance is all over the map once they increase club head speed.  Not sure about the P790, but I know other distance irons don't have a problem with distances all over the map.  Cobra Forged Tech certainly does not.  I haven't heard of the 770's having that problem either.  P790 seems to be the en-vogue distance iron and in my opinion it is a pos. 

 

The biggest issue at 13 is having to compete from 6500 yds when their swing speed isn't quite there.  This is where a GI or distance iron comes into play.  When playing ability is equal, a PW always beats a 7i.

 

I agree that a players iron will give you more consistency.  Same token it isn't going to help someone that is distance challenged play better.  If you can find the center in a blade a golfer can find the center in a GI or distance.  The theory that using a blade makes someone a better ball striker is hogwash.

 

My kid started at 11 with Wilson FG Tour V6 where his 7i was 137 when he turned 13.  Moved to Callaway Big Bertha at 13 where his 7i was 155 and helped him compete.  Had the Big Bertha for a year and switched irons because the distances got wonky.  9i one shot was 145 and the next was 175.  He was hitting the 4i 250 yds.  Moved to the Cobra Forged Tech because the distancing was not a big discrepancy.  Maybe a 7-8 yard difference less.  Now moving to the Mizuno 223 because he is having gapping issues with the Cobra.  Average 7i distance is 195 yds.  The Mizuno his distance when testing the 7i was 185 with better dispersion.

 

There are very few PGA players that use blades anymore.  T100 is the most used iron on tour and is not a blade.

 

 

At what swing speed (using driver as baseline?) did you start noticing the inconsistency of the GI irons (Big Bertha in your case) that prompted the switch to the Forged Tecs?

 

We are getting close to going with our first set of OEM's as my kid is almost 60" tall and will likely be moving on from his USKG TS3-57's later this fall.  I was actually thinking of putting him in something like the Wilson FG Tour F5's.

[heavy_hitter]

4 minutes ago, wildcatden said:

 

 

At what swing speed (using driver as baseline?) did you start noticing the inconsistency of the GI irons (Big Bertha in your case) that prompted the switch to the Forged Tecs?

 

We are getting close to going with our first set of OEM's as my kid is almost 60" tall and will likely be moving on from his USKG TS3-57's later this fall.  I was actually thinking of putting him in something like the Wilson FG Tour F5's.

If I had to guess around 110ish.  When we moved into that Big Bertha we knew it would be a year or less.  He had them for less than a year.  He was in them for about 9 months.  At 14 he was barely moving the driver 96 mph.

[Goldenhawk]

Each kid is different.  Even though my boys grew out of the US Kids Tour Series at different ages, what they played afterwards are different.

 

My oldest son started play golf before US Kids we’re on the scene.  Back then there were the Cleveland junior sets, Pings and Callaway XJs.  My oldest went from US Kids TS to TaylorMade Burner Irons around the start of middle school.  He then play Callaway Apex Pros in high school.  He played Titleist AP3 Irons up at the start of college.  Earlier this year he went to the TM 2021 P790s.

 

My 16 year old went from US Kids TS to Callaway Apex Irons at the age of 14, and then made the switch to the Titleist 2021 T300 Irons last year.  Earlier this summer, he made the switch to the Titleist 2021 T200 Irons.

 

My soon to be 14 year old went from US Kids TS to Callaway Apex Irons at age 9.  He then played the Titleist AP1 718 Irons and then played the 2019 T300s.  He made the switch to the 2021 T200 Irons last year when they were released in September 2021.  He has recently replaced the 8, 9, PW and AW of the T200s with the 2021 T100s versions.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Goldenhawk

[AC168]

On 6/22/2022 at 8:40 AM, ColdandUgly33 said:

What's your thoughts on Tiger Woods' philosophy on blades for juniors?  He's arguably the best iron striker of all time and grew up with the mentality that you can swing as fast as you can as long as you find the center.  An SGI or GI will not give you as much feedback on off center strikes but a PI will in effect train the junior to strike center.  He's wanted his son in blades from the start but settled on the slightly more forgiving cavity backs, TM P7MC.  More recently, Charlie was playing blades with slightly hollowed out cavities. 

 

This is an interesting one ... when I grew-up, my Dad didn't know much but wanted me to like golf so he bought me a set of PowerBuilt Momentum forged irons -- I was around 10 ish.  Every miss would hurt and it took a while to be able to hit the sweet spot.  Six years later I got a set of Ping Eye 2s and in many ways it was night and day. 

 

Now that I have a young son and have seen a fair amount with my nephew who is a very good collegiate player, my plan for my young son is to let him go from GI clubs to CB type clubs ... and when he can shoot around par easily, have him try forged blades for a while and see.  Some people do better with point and shoot, while others need to move the ball.  I do think that have blades for a period of time will help ballstriking in the long run.  Also, though I haven't played blades in a while, I've hit modern blades and they are relatively easy to hit compared to my old Mizuno MP 29s.    

[k.j.choi]

My son 12yr old has growing up so fast for last one year, 160-170cm (5.5ft?), 10.5 show size, M size for Kirkland adult glove, etc. He used to hit whatever available clubs around him.

 

Driver: 1 year ago, I bought him Cobra F9 Jr with one free upgrade shaft. Now even with upgrade shaft, it’s too soft for him. Also try one of drivers, Ping I20, ProjectX 6.0 shaft, ball fly too high. We went to Puetz to tested many adult drivers. He could hit 250 with Cobra Ltd LS. It was $500, and now $350. I guess his swing speed was around 98-100, ball speed 150. 

 

Iron: used to use my wife’s Adam’s iron set with 50g shaft. Later I found used PXG 0311P with senior 60g shaft almost new one, paid $500 for 5-P. My son loves it, and I like it too (I'm a single handicap). He also can hit one of my iron set, Ping S55 CFS R steel shaft. He said it’s a little bit heavy for him but I’m sure he can use it within 1 year.

 

Wedge: Pick up from Amazon, Touredge 50, 54, 58 for $120. Wedge flex steel shaft. A bit unbalanced with iron sets, but my son still hit them well.

 

Putter: who cares, right? he used to use his grand mom’s unkwon putter, and now his grand father gave him his Scotty Cameron putter.

 

I will stop by PXG to check my son’s swing before tournament season start, April. Probably 2-3 more upgrade until he uses X100 shaft for irons.