Why doesn't everyone putt sidesaddle ?

[tatertot]

Personally, I'm fascinated my side-saddle putting. It makes perfect sense to me and is totally logical (thanks Mr. Spock). On 2 separate ocassions I've built side-saddle specific putters that felt fantastic and I'm deadly in the living room with ... on the course, I can't get the ball started online, and it makes no sense to me. I've tried and tried, and I just can't do it. I see the line, it feels totally natural, but my execution is consistently lacking. And I've tried right foot forward, right foot back, both feet even, pencil grip, claw grip, standard grip ... I want it to work, it just doesn't.

[bluedot]

11 hours ago, tatertot said:

Personally, I'm fascinated my side-saddle putting. It makes perfect sense to me and is totally logical (thanks Mr. Spock). On 2 separate ocassions I've built side-saddle specific putters that felt fantastic and I'm deadly in the living room with ... on the course, I can't get the ball started online, and it makes no sense to me. I've tried and tried, and I just can't do it. I see the line, it feels totally natural, but my execution is consistently lacking. And I've tried right foot forward, right foot back, both feet even, pencil grip, claw grip, standard grip ... I want it to work, it just doesn't.

FWIW, I don't think missing your intended line on a putt is usually about anything other than a decelerating stroke, regardless of what method or grip or anything else.  If you are seeing two-way misses relative to your line, then you might be using a "pop" stroke rather than releasing the putter down the intended line toward the hole.

 

A lot of the same stuff can go wrong with a putt hit side saddle as with a conventional putt; you can misread the green, or you can get the speed wrong, or both.  But I think most of us who putt side saddle would agree that starting the ball on your intended line is MUCH easier this way, at least compared to when we putted conventionally.  I'll chalk that up to not having to deal very much with the putter face opening and closing during the stroke, reduced issues with ball position and alignment, and looking down the line with both eyes.

 

When I have a bad spell putting side saddle, it's almost always exactly what you are describing, and really focusing on just letting the putter continue down the line until I feel the muscles in my forearm stretch a bit is always the fix.  Really, it's about the only thing that can go wrong with the stroke itself.

[willplaysgolf]

For those still interested in this topic, here's a paper comparing the range of motion of a conventional putting stroke and side saddle. This might be the paper Gary McCord was referencing in a 2010 magazine article on the topic of side saddle. 

 

[Pepperturbo]

Putting sidesaddle is like riding a horse sidesaddle, not happening for this ole boy, it's unnatural. LOL  But if it makes your boat float, go for it till the USGA says otherwise. 

[bluedot]

18 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Putting sidesaddle is like riding a horse sidesaddle, not happening for this ole boy, it's unnatural. LOL  But if it makes your boat float, go for it till the USGA says otherwise. 

Well, actually, when you ride a horse “conventionally”, you’re facing your target and using binocular vision to ride toward it.  If you sit “side saddle”, you’re in the exact position you adopt for conventional t putting.

 

I know you were using that example tongue in cheek.  Fwiw, I am NEVER “evangelical” about face on putting, even when I’m playing with a terrible putter who would be better Day One; I just answer questions if I get asked.  The main reason isn’t about any question in my mind about the method being simpler and better; I knew that two months in after being a good putter conventionally for nearly 50 years.

 

It’s that most people care a LOT about how they are viewed by others on a golf course, and they just aren’t going to be able to cope with the attention they’ll draw.  I’ve had some things happen in my life that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy, and I just don’t much care anymore what people think or say about what I’m doing, but I’m not “normal” in that regard, and I know that.

 

As to the USGA, they might someday put a limit on the length of putters, and they could even require an change in the lie angle of putters from a max of 80*, neither of which would be deal-breakers for most of us that putt this way.  But writing a rule to prevent putting from an extremely open stance with the hands separated? I don’t think even the USGA would head down THAT rabbit hole.

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, bluedot said:

Well, actually, when you ride a horse “conventionally”, you’re facing your target and using binocular vision to ride toward it.  If you sit “side saddle”, you’re in the exact position you adopt for conventional t putting.

 

I know you were using that example tongue in cheek.  Fwiw, I am NEVER “evangelical” about face on putting, even when I’m playing with a terrible putter who would be better Day One; I just answer questions if I get asked.  The main reason isn’t about any question in my mind about the method being simpler and better; I knew that two months in after being a good putter conventionally for nearly 50 years.

 

It’s that most people care a LOT about how they are viewed by others on a golf course, and they just aren’t going to be able to cope with the attention they’ll draw.  I’ve had some things happen in my life that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy, and I just don’t much care anymore what people think or say about what I’m doing, but I’m not “normal” in that regard, and I know that.

 

As to the USGA, they might someday put a limit on the length of putters, and they could even require an change in the lie angle of putters from a max of 80*, neither of which would be deal-breakers for most of us that putt this way.  But writing a rule to prevent putting from an extremely open stance with the hands separated? I don’t think even the USGA would head down THAT rabbit hole.

I hear ya...  and like, you, I am one that doesn't give a flying squirt what others think. 

 

Then there's this...  A segment of people that have an epiphany, then persist on pushing it on the world, and they do it without understanding or even concern about the effects of such change.  That's partly why the USGA and sound leadership doesn't make wholesale changes; too many unforeseen variables.

 

Yep, how someone appears to others probably falls into that category.  Lots of people want to be accepted, it's a psychology weakness, that's rampant today.  I rely on the history of my judgment, as to when to change and or advance.  I, only accept gradual change and only when it has a clear broad benefit.

 

I am not the greatest putter but I seldom 3 putts, so my putting stats are still acceptable, and probably why I still play blades as opposed to the latest and greatest buy me a game, irons.  I have never been one to fix what doesn't need fixing.

[MrHateCoffee]

I skimmed the thread…

 

How does one even get started with side saddle putting? Is new equipment required?  Are there some YouTube videos I can watch? I did a quick search but nothing seemed to be a good combination of quality and informative 

[bluedot]

18 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

I skimmed the thread…

 

How does one even get started with side saddle putting? Is new equipment required?  Are there some YouTube videos I can watch? I did a quick search but nothing seemed to be a good combination of quality and informative 

I’m away from home right now and typing is a pain; let get home and on a computer tomorrow and I’ll give you a decent answer to this.

 

in the meantime, there is a discussion on the putter forum that’s probably the foremost discussion of side saddle putting in the world. You might want to check that out; I’ll bump it up to the top of the page.

[The Pearl]

20 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

I skimmed the thread…

 

How does one even get started with side saddle putting? Is new equipment required?  Are there some YouTube videos I can watch? I did a quick search but nothing seemed to be a good combination of quality and informative 

 

I will streamline this for you:

 

1.  Get a Bobby Grace F 22 with the asskicker.  (Call Bobby directly to get an idea of length)

 

2.  Practice/experiment for a bit.

 

3.  Get rid of all your other putters.

 

4.  Commit 100% regardless of the short-term outcome.

 

5.  Never go back.

 

While a bit tongue and cheek, I am not really joking here.

 

This is essentially what I did 7 years ago with a bit of variation.

 

[MrHateCoffee]

13 hours ago, The Pearl said:

 

I will streamline this for you:

 

1.  Get a Bobby Grace F 22 with the asskicker.  (Call Bobby directly to get an idea of length)

 

2.  Practice/experiment for a bit.

 

3.  Get rid of all your other putters.

 

4.  Commit 100% regardless of the short-term outcome.

 

5.  Never go back.

 

While a bit tongue and cheek, I am not really joking here.

 

This is essentially what I did 7 years ago with a bit of variation.

 

 

Thanks.  Is there an option that isn't $450?  I'd hate to spend so much money without trying out the method first.  That's a pretty big commitment

[jldelta]

2 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

 

Thanks.  Is there an option that isn't $450?  I'd hate to spend so much money without trying out the method first.  That's a pretty big commitment

 

Of course. My recommendation is to buy an old Ping B90 or B90i, long or belly length (almost all are) or an old STX "butterfly" like Randy Haag uses (check out his sidesaddle YouTube vids). I started with a couple of STX bought in Europe for peanuts, then switched to the Ping B90 (I have 3 : long and belly length B90, long B90i). Whilst all these putters have been going up in price, if you're patient, you can usually pick up for very little ($35 or so is the most I've paid, but maybe I've just been lucky).

 

Then experiment a LOT with different sidesaddle styles....

 

... and once you get comfortable with your setup and stroke, experiment with looking at the hole, not the ball (I do this for all putts).

Edited August 30, 2021 by jldelta

[bluedot]

On 8/29/2021 at 10:13 PM, The Pearl said:

 

I will streamline this for you:

 

1.  Get a Bobby Grace F 22 with the asskicker.  (Call Bobby directly to get an idea of length)

 

2.  Practice/experiment for a bit.

 

3.  Get rid of all your other putters.

 

4.  Commit 100% regardless of the short-term outcome.

 

5.  Never go back.

 

While a bit tongue and cheek, I am not really joking here.

 

This is essentially what I did 7 years ago with a bit of variation.

 

The Pearl, even tongue in cheek, has given you a pretty good list here.  I think the posts that follow point out one of the difficulties with side saddle, which is simply getting a putter to use.

 

For purposes of getting started, you can find something on ebay that will work, either a used putter or one of the cheaper versions that are offered new there.  There are length recommendations made here and there, but for reference purposes, I'm 6-1 and finally settled on 44".

 

Of equal importance is the lie angle and the loft, though you'll see some disagreement among the guys here about loft.  The putters that are made to be used side saddle have a lie angle of 79 or 80 degrees, which is the max allowable under the Rules, and only a degree or so of loft.  Both are sort of a big deal, IMO.

 

Putting side saddle isn't an instant "magic trick", UNLESS you currently have the yips and are having rounds where you have in excess of 40 putts.  If you DO, then you might well be better Day One; I've seen that happen.  But converting to side saddle under normal conditions is just like anything else; it takes some time and practice, and the willingness to go thru the process of improvement.

 

That said, it is SO natural that the process is much quicker than other swing changes we make in golf.  Learn to make 3-6' putts on a straight, flat surface, either a mat or a putting green, and it'll really speed the process.  When your brain processes the fact that you aren't having to manipulate the club head anymore, then all of a sudden distance control becomes MUCH easier.  But you still have to give it a little bit of time; how much depends on how hard you practice.

 

I agree 100% with The Pearl; if you're going to do it, commit and don't go back and forth with conventional putting.  The reasons are obvious; not only is it less reps with the new style, but if you are putting the way that you are used to and alternating with the way you are still learning, you've sort of set up a skewed set of results.

 

I lived it; I got a GP putter, practiced twice, played alone twice, and then went "live" in an interclub match when NOBODY had ever seen me putt that way.  (In fact, most people had never seen ANYBODY putt that way!)  On top of that, my partner that day was a guy I had never played with before, which felt risky; I was a little bit afraid I'd have a million putts.  I didn't; I had a couple of birdies, and only one three putt on an away course, so it was fine.  After about two months, I got rid of all my old conventional putters except a Ping with a lot of sentimental value and a Scotty I couldn't get my money out of; I knew to a certainty I would never go back to conventional putting.

 

That was a little over six years ago, and I've never looked back. 

[BigEx44]

On 7/8/2021 at 8:46 PM, The Pearl said:

"Side-saddle must be inferior to conventional putting because the pros aren't using it" is a classic example of an Argument from Ignornance fallacy (sometimes called the Negative Proof Fallacy).

 

The mere fact of achieving status as a PGA Tour player decreases the chances that the golfer would ever switch. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.  I've been sidesaddle putting for 8+ years now.  I love going to go golf schools and almost every time the pro sees my stroke they're fascinated.  The usual comment I get goes something like this: "That's a great way to putt.  If I hadn't invested 30 years of practice with my current stroke, I'd give it a try."

 

Which I totally understand.  The pro's are good to great putters who have put in a tremendous amount of practice time to get there.  And since they are so good - why change?  But that doesn't mean they don't see the value in a sidesaddle stroke.

 

 

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, BigEx44 said:

 

Exactly.  I've been sidesaddle putting for 8+ years now.  I love going to go golf schools and almost every time the pro sees my stroke they're fascinated.  The usual comment I get goes something like this: "That's a great way to putt.  If I hadn't invested 30 years of practice with my current stroke, I'd give it a try."

 

Which I totally understand.  The pro's are good to great putters who have put in a tremendous amount of practice time to get there.  And since they are so good - why change?  But that doesn't mean they don't see the value in a sidesaddle stroke.

 

 

I’ve written this many times, but good players are looking at the way the ball rolls and the results, and are interested in talking about side saddle.  Chops are mostly interested in how they look and are coming across.

[timk18]

About 4 yrs ago I starting developing the dreaded y_____s, on longer putts, so I started experimenting with ways to combat it....Started side saddle, and even went a year putting eyes closed.  I'm back to eyes open but still using side saddle on long putts.  People look at me strange until I start holing putts or at least getting them in the gimme range.  I still putt "conventional" from about 10 ft in.  I'm using my Scotty Cameron Studio One putter - not the best for side saddle, but am finding a way to make it work.  Am a great believer in the common sense approach to look at a putt straight on rather than view it from the side.

Tim

[Haroputt]

When I began to try Face on putting didn’t have much success position the ball just right leg.  Then discovered I was left eye dominant and now position the ball outside my left leg and that made a big difference. I can see the line much better and can roll the ball when the ball is on the same side as my dominant eye 

[rawdog]

I'm about 20 lbs lighter now and no longer have my sweet indoor putting green, but this is how I putt using a custom 550g head my buddy milled for me. I'll try and get some photos of the putter itself. I haven't been active on here in a little while, but this thread piqued my interest 😄

 

EDIT: I've since changed my stance to where my feet are next to each other instead of staggered, and I look at the ball instead of the cup now when I make the stroke.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by rawdog

[rawdog]

[Feelingofgreatness]

I experimented with it. 

If you could use a putter that is 90* lie angle I think most golfers would switch, but that's illegal. Using an 80* SS putter comes with concessions. 

[Soloman1]

Maybe I can turn this old ashtray into a putter?

 

When I make a putt, I can say, "Smoooookin'"

 

 

[BigEx44]

2 hours ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

I experimented with it. 

If you could use a putter that is 90* lie angle I think most golfers would switch, but that's illegal. Using an 80* SS putter comes with concessions. 

 

Many of us hold the putter at 90 degrees (toe down slightly) which accomplishes the same thing.

[Feelingofgreatness]

3 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

 

Many of us hold the putter at 90 degrees (toe down slightly) which accomplishes the same thing.

Borderline illegal if the head is designed to accommodate that. I play in a few tournaments. 

[milesgiles]

21 hours ago, rawdog said:

 

that thing is hideous lol

[BigEx44]

4 hours ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

Borderline illegal if the head is designed to accommodate that. I play in a few tournaments. 

 

I use a Bobby Grace F22 putter that is USGA approved.  It can still be held vertical with the toe slightly down. 

But it wasn't designed to be used that way - so it's perfectly legal.

As is the case for most sidesaddle putters.

[Feelingofgreatness]

43 minutes ago, BigEx44 said:

 

I use a Bobby Grace F22 putter that is USGA approved.  It can still be held vertical with the toe slightly down. 

But it wasn't designed to be used that way - so it's perfectly legal.

As is the case for most sidesaddle putters.

I was told if the design of the head can accommodate using it at a 90 degree angle it will be deemed illegal in tournaments. I'm not a rule official though. 

[BigEx44]

6 hours ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

I was told if the design of the head can accommodate using it at a 90 degree angle it will be deemed illegal in tournaments. I'm not a rule official though. 

 

How could they deem illegal something USGA approved?

[rawdog]

15 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

that thing is hideous lol

 

That was the goal 😄

[Feelingofgreatness]

5 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

 

How could they deem illegal something USGA approved?

Remember when Bryson tried SS and the big reason he dumped it? The head design allowed it to be used at 90 degrees. If you are able to use the putter at 90 degrees, you are basically thwarting the 80 degree limit rule. 

[BigEx44]

18 minutes ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

Remember when Bryson tried SS and the big reason he dumped it? The head design allowed it to be used at 90 degrees. If you are able to use the putter at 90 degrees, you are basically thwarting the 80 degree limit rule. 

 

The USGA ruled Bryson's putter was illegal.

The putter I use has been USGA approved.

Once the USGA approves a putter - you're "allowed" to use it any way you want.

(at least in terms of how vertical you hold it, of course you can't anchor it....)

Edited December 26, 2021 by BigEx44

[Feelingofgreatness]

3 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

 

The USGA ruled Bryson's putter was illegal.

The putter I use has been USGA approved.

Once the USGA approves a putter - you're "allowed" to use it any way you want.

(at least in terms of how vertical you hold it, of course you can't anchor it....)

Good to know.

I think we need someone to use the putters on the PGA and test the ruling though.