My first WHS h/cap is +0.3 - WTF ?

[sevenfourate]

I’m an ex Pro….and 5-6 years ago I let my +1 handicap lapse as I wasn’t playing much / wasn’t interested in competitive golf and infact wasn’t a member of a club. **I was of course very aware of how the old UK handicap system worked….

 

Fast forward and my Son has now started playing a lot - and just got a handicap himself.

 

So I’ve played a bit the last few months: and over the last 3 weeks put 3 cards in to get myself a handicap again - the aim being to play a few doubles events with my Son.

 

My home course is Par 72 with a slope of 126.

 

I’ve put in cards of 76,75 and over the weekend a 73. One of my friends has just seen I’ve been given a +0.3 handicap.

 

Is this even remotely possible / accurate / not a mistake ?

 

I’m not up on the new system at all. Just aware in the old U.K. system those cards would have probably got me a 3 handicap or thereabouts.

 

Im struggling to grasp how 4 over, 3 over and 1 over gross (All in great weather conditions) makes me a scratch golfer ??? 🤔

Edited June 2, 2021 by sevenfourate

[North Butte]

Here is USA you'd need a minimum of five rounds (90 holes) posted in order to receive a valid handicap index. If you only have five rounds, the index will be computed based on the lowest differential only.

 

As you add additional rounds beyond the minimum of five, the lowest two differentials are averaged, then the lowest three and so forth until you reach 20 rounds in which case the lowest eight of your last twenty differentials are averaged.

 

No idea if the new WHS system in R&A land uses a similar approach. Probably the same general idea but I'd imagine the details differ. At any rate, an index of +0.3 sounds about right for that round of one-over par you posted. Almost certainly that's what the index you were given is being computed from.

 

Again I'm speaking here in USA but "great weather conditions" has never to my knowledge affected the computation of my handicap differentials. There is a playing conditions adjustment that occasionally gets applied but it doesn't seem to have much correlation with weather conditions. Not sure if they are more pro-active in creating those playing condition adjustments over there but it's not something that seems to make much difference overall. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by North Butte

[davep043]

52 minutes ago, sevenfourate said:

I’ve put in cards of 76,75 and over the weekend a 73. One of my friends has just seen I’ve been given a +0.3 handicap.

 

Is this even remotely possible / accurate / not a mistake ?

 

I’m not up on the new system at all. Just aware in the old U.K. system those cards would have probably got me a 3 handicap or thereabouts.

You can, and probably should, look this up in the Handicap Rules.   You can find them here:

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Rules-of-Handicapping-17-12-20.pdf

This bit is in Rule 5.2a.  The WHS uses an averaging of your better 8 scores of the most recent 20.  But with only 3 scores, the system takes your single best score (differential, actually), and subtracts 2.0 to get your Handicap Index.  When you post another score, the system will use your single best differential, and only subtract 1.0.  Once you get a greater number of scores in the system, a larger percentage of your scores will be averaged to calculate your HI.

 

1 minute ago, North Butte said:

Here is USA you'd need a minimum of five rounds (90 holes) posted in order to receive a valid handicap index. If you only have five rounds, the index will be computed based on the lowest differential only.

This isn't accurate, you need only 3 rounds in the USGA areas.  

[sevenfourate]

6 minutes ago, davep043 said:

You can, and probably should, look this up in the Handicap Rules.   You can find them here:

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Rules-of-Handicapping-17-12-20.pdf

This bit is in Rule 5.2a.  The WHS uses an averaging of your better 8 scores of the most recent 20.  But with only 3 scores, the system takes your single best score (differential, actually), and subtracts 2.0 to get your Handicap Index.  When you post another score, the system will use your single best differential, and only subtract 1.0.  Once you get a greater number of scores in the system, a larger percentage of your scores will be averaged to calculate your HI.

 

This isn't accurate, you need only 3 rounds in the USGA areas.  

Thankyou very much for your insight. I knew about 8 from 20 ongoing…..

 

But wasn’t aware of single best differential; minus 2 to begin with !
 

Time and rounds entered will average it all out…….

 

Thanks for the link for WHS rules too. Will have a good read. 
 

Good luck.

[Mudguard]

1 hour ago, sevenfourate said:

I’m an ex Pro….and 5-6 years ago I let my +1 handicap lapse as I wasn’t playing much / wasn’t interested in competitive golf and infact wasn’t a member of a club. **I was of course very aware of how the old UK handicap system worked….

 

 

It depends how it works in the UK. In New Zealand, the system will find your old handicap, and you'll play off that until you have enough rounds in.

 

It's good in a way, in theory someone like yourself could start afresh and be assigned a 36. It's also tough in a way, I broke my femur last year and was on crutches for five months. When I came back to golf I couldn't get near my handicap for a long time.

[davep043]

2 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

It depends how it works in the UK. In New Zealand, the system will find your old handicap, and you'll play off that until you have enough rounds in.

 

It's good in a way, in theory someone like yourself could start afresh and be assigned a 36. It's also tough in a way, I broke my femur last year and was on crutches for five months. When I came back to golf I couldn't get near my handicap for a long time.

I hope I interpreted right, the OP had let his handicap lapse, so may not have had any official scoring record for the past 5 years or more.  If that's correct, he really IS starting from scratch.  As he says, once he gets a few more rounds in the system things will stabilize.

[Mudguard]

1 minute ago, davep043 said:

I hope I interpreted right, the OP had let his handicap lapse, so may not have had any official scoring record for the past 5 years or more.  If that's correct, he really IS starting from scratch.  As he says, once he gets a few more rounds in the system things will stabilize.

 

But are they though? Someone has got that low will never be an absolute beginner again (barring some kind of injury), so I think it's fair they come in off the old handicap until they have the required rounds in.

What hurts most is the hard cap, so if someone was scratch in a previous stint, their low index will limit how far out they can go for a year.

 

The worst example of this kind of thing is in charity/work ambrose (scrambles) where you have someone who was a member of a club until six months ago, has no 'official' handicap, so plays off the max when they are usually a competent golfer. 

[Mudguard]

In the OP's example it's more extreme, pro's usually have a minimum stand down period before becoming an amateur again. It sounds like plenty of time has passed but even with a decade out of the game, those basic mechanics will still be there. 

[North Butte]

No reflection on the original poster intended but I remember years ago when I first started playing golf there was a local guy who had played a couple dozen events on the PGA Tour back in the day but when he quit playing professionally he was granted his amateur status back after several years. 

 

He won our city (amateur) championship like 7 times out of his first 8 years back as an "amateur". As you say, once someone has played at that kind of level the fact that they go get a day job selling insurance doesn't exactly erase the skills from their memory banks after a couple years. 

 

But in original poster's case, the fact he's going to be saddled with a +0.3 from the beginning kind of argues against him having any sort of unfair advantage. Those formulas for assigning handicaps with few scores are pretty hard-core!

[davep043]

18 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

But are they though? Someone has got that low will never be an absolute beginner again (barring some kind of injury), so I think it's fair they come in off the old handicap until they have the required rounds in.

I don't know the policy of England Golf regarding use of "old scores".  If the OP has no scores posted within the defined period, he's starting as if he's a beginner, one who happens to shoot 76, 75, and 73.  His initial Handicap Index is just better than scratch, which seems a reasonable place to start.  Its not like the old CONGU system, where a beginner starts with a high handicap.

[sevenfourate]

3 minutes ago, davep043 said:

I don't know the policy of England Golf regarding use of "old scores".  If the OP has no scores posted within the defined period, he's starting as if he's a beginner, one who happens to shoot 76, 75, and 73.  His initial Handicap Index is just better than scratch, which seems a reasonable place to start.  Its not like the old CONGU system, where a beginner starts with a high handicap.

My last official CONGU handicap was +0.7 I think. Approx 4 years ago and I was playing competitive golf every weekend in Summer. So I’d have had a record of perhaps 100-150+ competition rounds in the 4 years or so prior to me letting it lapse. I’m guessing none of that has even been looked at / taken into account - and the lowest differential -2: applied to the cards I’ve just entered….

 

Cheers.

[Hawkeye77]

So good news is a few more scores entered and you’ll officially be a tremendous slouch! 

[sevenfourate]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

So good news is a few more scores entered and you’ll officially be a tremendous slouch! 

Ive never given up my Professional status on that front….

[Fairway14]

4 hours ago, sevenfourate said:

 

 

I’m not up on the new system at all. Just aware in the old U.K. system those cards would have probably got me a 3 handicap or thereabouts.

 

I agree, sounds like your game is of a 3 or 4 handicap player.

[MtlJeff]

38 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

I agree, sounds like your game is of a 3 or 4 handicap player.

 

Or as we say on GolfWrx = better than an LPGA player

[Shilgy]

Unless I missed it lost in this entire thread is a key question.  The OP mentioned par of 72 and 126 slope but never had said what the course rating is.  
Also the idea he would be, or should be, a 3 or 4 handicap with those scores is very unlikely unless the course rating is quite low.  Even if his scores did not improve if he shot 76-75-73 over and over until he hit 20 scores the eight that would count would be 6 73’s and a couple 75’s.  Again unless the course rating is low those are not 3-4 handicap territory.
 

[sevenfourate]

15 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Unless I missed it lost in this entire thread is a key question.  The OP mentioned par of 72 and 126 slope but never had said what the course rating is.  
Also the idea he would be, or should be, a 3 or 4 handicap with those scores is very unlikely unless the course rating is quite low.  Even if his scores did not improve if he shot 76-75-73 over and over until he hit 20 scores the eight that would count would be 6 73’s and a couple 75’s.  Again unless the course rating is low those are not 3-4 handicap territory.
 

 

Our course rating is 72.3 (Par is 72)

 

I've played enough golf at a decent level over the last 30+ years to know i'm not playing like a 4 handicapper. Imo, Not sure i quite feel like a scratch right now either though !

[jvincent]

41 minutes ago, sevenfourate said:

 

Our course rating is 72.3 (Par is 72)

 

I've played enough golf at a decent level over the last 30+ years to know i'm not playing like a 4 handicapper. Imo, Not sure i quite feel like a scratch right now either though !

Does your golf association provide a web page that shows your counting scores/differentials? I'd be surprised if it doesn't.

 

That will clear up any confusion on how you're at +0.3.

[Augster]

I think he’s getting a break not using WHS. Under WHS he’d be a +1.4. 
 

73-72.3=.7. .7*113/126= .6. .6-2= +1.4. 
 

He’s getting a full stroke he doesn’t deserve. He should be playing as many net games as he can. 

[antip]

In Oz, 3-6 cards in, you are handicapped on the lowest card. 7-8 cards in, handicapped on the lowest 2, 9-10 in, lowest 3, etc. End point, 19 or 20 in, handicapped on the lowest 8 cards.

As others note, you will also need to know the par, scratch rating, slope etc to calculate the final differential for each round submitted.

[SNIPERBBB]

Another thing if I remember rightly, the old CONGU system translated go an index that was roughly 3-4 strokes higher than the USGA system 

 

[Colin L]

On 6/2/2021 at 8:44 PM, davep043 said:

I don't know the policy of England Golf regarding use of "old scores".  If the OP has no scores posted within the defined period, he's starting as if he's a beginner, one who happens to shoot 76, 75, and 73.  His initial Handicap Index is just better than scratch, which seems a reasonable place to start.  Its not like the old CONGU system, where a beginner starts with a high handicap.

Under the CONGU system just as in the WHS a player would get a new handicap commensurate with the scores he/she submitted and, just as in the WHS, it would have been based on lowest of his 3 scores.  A player looking for a first handicap  would only start with a high handicap if he/she put in high scores. 

 

There isn't any substantial difference in the methods of calculating an initial handicap between the two systems except that it's easier to understand a modification of -2 strokes than this beast of a formula which CONGU used:

 

Initial handicap = (Lowest Adjusted Gross Differential  + (Lowest Adjusted Gross Differential times  0.13)divided by  1.237. 

 

 

 

[davep043]

1 minute ago, Colin L said:

Under the CONGU system just as in the WHS a player would get a new handicap commensurate with the scores he/she submitted and, just as in the WHS, it would have been based on lowest of his 3 scores.  A player looking for a first handicap  would only start with a high handicap if he/she put in high scores. 

 

There isn't any substantial difference in the methods of calculating an initial handicap between the two systems except that it's easier to understand a modification of -2 strokes than this beast of a formula which CONGU used:

 

Initial handicap = (Lowest Adjusted Gross Differential  + (Lowest Adjusted Gross Differential times  0.13)divided by  1.237. 

Thanks for the correction.  

[Halebopp]

52 minutes ago, davep043 said:

Thanks for the correction.  

 

The EGA system handed all beginners a handicap index of 54. The new WHS way of not giving one right away has been problematic because the tee-time booking systems can't comprehend players without a handicap, they assume it's equal to scratch and therefore the beginners would be free to book tee times as the wish. Most clubs have handicap limits for each group, at our club it's 108, so you can only have two beginners playing together in the same group but scratch and plus golfers could join them. Naturally the club staff can make exceptions (like allowing families who started to play together to book evening rounds).

 

To solve the problem we've needed to enter scores for all the beginners to give them an initial index of 54. While not the correct procedure, all players without a handicap are considered to play off a course handicap of 54 so it's not that far off

[Newby]

On 6/2/2021 at 8:52 PM, sevenfourate said:

My last official CONGU handicap was +0.7 I think. Approx 4 years ago and I was playing competitive golf every weekend in Summer. So I’d have had a record of perhaps 100-150+ competition rounds in the 4 years or so prior to me letting it lapse. I’m guessing none of that has even been looked at / taken into account - and the lowest differential -2: applied to the cards I’ve just entered….

 

Cheers.

The transition from England Golf CONGU only took scores back the the start of 2018.

Further to get a true figure for your actual score differential you need the Course Rating (and Slope) of the tees you played. Not the par. which takes no part in handicap calculations.

The differential is (Gross - Course Rating) x (113/Slope)

Your initial Handicap Index will be the best of your 3 differentials  - 2.0.

The table in Rule 5.2a gives you the progression up to 20 scores.